Depression

[peterhague]

distressing to read so many of you struggling with this horrible affliction. i only know John in person, but i guess nothing sums up depression more neatly than seeing him write that he genuinely fears he's unlikeable etc. of all people!

incidentally, i've always despaired at the attitude plenty of people still have of looking down on those who are driven to suicide - 'coward's way out' etc. seems such a cruel and shallow response.

xx

 

[Woland]

If it helps, I suffered terribly for years but haven't for a long time. You can get better.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

My thoughts are with you lads.


Stevie mate: I hope the many beatings i've dished out to you don't play any part 😉

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=47687.msg1433631#msg1433631 date=1322458099]
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=47687.msg1433630#msg1433630 date=1322457410]
One point I want to make about antidepressant medication is that it is usually just one part of the solution, along with counselling and the support of loved ones. Also, not everyone benefits from medication (most studies show that approx 70% benefit) and that it occasionally takes trials of two or more medications to find the one that is appropriate for an individual. And even among medications within the same class they may have different side effect profiles so it is important to be very open and forthwith with your care provider to ensure that they help you select the right one for you. And often people feel there is a stigma with taking medication but there really isnt. It is a tool like any other, and can be a valuable tool to help overcome an insidious illness. Medication is not a silver bullet but it can help you get into a position to battle the illness yourself.
[/quote]
Spot on.
[/quote]

Yes it is. A (happily now recovered) mate of mine took Prozac for the first three months of his illness, somewhat unwillingly at first because of its reputation (we had to work on him a bit, albeit carefully, to consult his doctor) but it was exactly what he needed to give him a bit of stability and help him start the recovery process.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47687.msg1433706#msg1433706 date=1322474384]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=47687.msg1433631#msg1433631 date=1322458099]
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=47687.msg1433630#msg1433630 date=1322457410]
One point I want to make about antidepressant medication is that it is usually just one part of the solution, along with counselling and the support of loved ones. Also, not everyone benefits from medication (most studies show that approx 70% benefit) and that it occasionally takes trials of two or more medications to find the one that is appropriate for an individual. And even among medications within the same class they may have different side effect profiles so it is important to be very open and forthwith with your care provider to ensure that they help you select the right one for you. And often people feel there is a stigma with taking medication but there really isnt. It is a tool like any other, and can be a valuable tool to help overcome an insidious illness. Medication is not a silver bullet but it can help you get into a position to battle the illness yourself.
[/quote]
Spot on.
[/quote]

Yes it is. A (happily now recovered) mate of mine took Prozac for the first three months of his illness, somewhat unwillingly at first because of its reputation (we had to work on him a bit, albeit carefully, to consult his doctor) but it was exactly what he needed to give him a bit of stability and help him start the recovery process.
[/quote]

I am taking CItalopram on a relatively low dosage and the first few weeks were tough as there were some side effects that have now gone. But its only a crutch. The next stage, which is where I'm at is understanding the triggers and then managing the emotions, thoughts and behaviours that follow. Effectively re thinking my approach when the triggers come up.

I look at it as a reconditioning of stuff that is deeply conditioned inside me. I don't want to end up completely different, just manage those destructive triggers that can come on for any number of reasons and block them out or re route them into positive thoughts, emotions and behaviours.

Dylan said about the castrophising of events and that's something I do a lot. I do it because I work on the theory that if I can deal with the worst case then everything will be alright, but I can't deal with worst case scenarios all the time and allow it to consume me. There are other negative behaviours I have too and the first course is teaching me the theory behind it. Some of it is so obvious to me its like sucking eggs, but if that were really the case why was I not already doing it? Therein lies the issue to overcome.

 

[Dave]

Is medication really the answer?? Is it a stop gap?? Or do some people stay on the tablets forever because if they stop taking the medication the depression comes back??

 

[doctor_mac]

I had a lot of depression in my family, and suffer from anxiety and sleeplessness myself, though thankfully not depression. The thing is, I did have shit to get anxious about I suppose, even if my body was overreacting to it. Anyway, I think it is pretty brave of everyone to divulge their inner-demons, and I'd also say, on the positive front, it probably signals that there is much less stigma attached to these things now. Loads of us are a wee bitty mental as it turns out, and most of these sane bastards are dicks anyway.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47687.msg1433674#msg1433674 date=1322469258]


incidentally, i've always despaired at the attitude plenty of people still have of looking down on those who are driven to suicide - 'coward's way out' etc. seems such a cruel and shallow response.

xx
[/quote]

Yes, I agree with you there. Those people are essentially saying that they are stronger so would obviously be able to deal with the problems easily, but I'm sure in a lot of cases they would have no idea how the person who was driven to suicide would have been feeling.

Having said that, there may be reasons why some have that kind of attitude.

On the thread as a whole, my heart goes out to those of you suffering from this. I have personally had some experience of this, though certainly mildly in comparison. Its a dreadful condition though and one that is still hugely misunderstood by many.

I mean, how many other illnesses are you just expected to 'sort yourself out', 'pull yourself together' or at best 'well take these pills'? And only too often when people are signed off work with depression it is met with a roll of the eyes and referred to as "depression". People wouldn't do that for other things would they - 'oh, x will be off for a while. He claims he has "cancer". Typical'.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

The problem Is an awful lot of people do blag it. I'm not saying that's te case here obviously, but I see it happen all the time in our place, until their sick pay runs out, when they return better than ever.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=47687.msg1433728#msg1433728 date=1322478440]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47687.msg1433674#msg1433674 date=1322469258]


incidentally, i've always despaired at the attitude plenty of people still have of looking down on those who are driven to suicide - 'coward's way out' etc. seems such a cruel and shallow response.

xx
[/quote]

Yes, I agree with you there. Those people are essentially saying that they are stronger so would obviously be able to deal with the problems easily, but I'm sure in a lot of cases they would have no idea how the person who was driven to suicide would have been feeling.

Having said that, there may be reasons why some have that kind of attitude.

On the thread as a whole, my heart goes out to those of you suffering from this. I have personally had some experience of this, though certainly mildly in comparison. Its a dreadful condition though and one that is still hugely misunderstood by many.

I mean, how many other illnesses are you just expected to 'sort yourself out', 'pull yourself together' or at best 'well take these pills'? And only too often when people are signed off work with depression it is met with a roll of the eyes and referred to as "depression". People wouldn't do that for other things would they - 'oh, x will be off for a while. He claims he has "cancer". Typical'.
[/quote]

I remember laughing at a Ricky Gervais stand up (yeah I know) where he mocked people with ME. His punchline throughout was "its not a disease". I laughed because I thought it was true. But frankly, I'd reckon that ME has its causes rooted in depression.

And I'll also freely admit that I used to have that attitude towards people who claimed they were depressed. Ignorant fool that I was!

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=47687.msg1433741#msg1433741 date=1322479457]
The problem Is an awful lot of people do blag it. I'm not saying that's te case here obviously, but I see it happen all the time in our place, until their sick pay runs out, when they return better than ever.
[/quote]

I am sure they do. But Gary Speed was "better than ever" on Saturday and was dead by Sunday morning. Its simply not a black and white issue.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Of course, and I didn't mean to offend anyone with that. I'm in no way playing down depression.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author='Dave' link=topic=47687.msg1433726#msg1433726 date=1322478243]
Is medication really the answer?? Is it a stop gap?? Or do some people stay on the tablets forever because if they stop taking the medication the depression comes back??
[/quote]

For me it is a coping mechanism that allows you to deal with the wider root causes. It allows you to the so called simple things like get up, wash, go to work and socialise. That means you have some free space to deal with the other things that can lead to depression.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=47687.msg1433749#msg1433749 date=1322479747]
Of course, and I didn't mean to offend anyone with that. I'm in no way playing down depression.
[/quote]

You didn't offend. My post was slightly brusque and wasn't meant to be. Just me showing another the obvious flip side! You cunt!

 

[SaintGeorge67]

*reports spion to moderator*

Is there a moderator in the house?

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=47687.msg1433759#msg1433759 date=1322480373]
*reports spion to moderator*

Is there a moderator in the house?
[/quote]

*flicks bird at the manc*

 

[Dave]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=47687.msg1433752#msg1433752 date=1322479897]
For me it is a coping mechanism that allows you to deal with the wider root causes. It allows you to the so called simple things like get up, wash, go to work and socialise. That means you have some free space to deal with the other things that can lead to depression.
[/quote]

Got ya. Well, Jon, I hope you sort your swede out ASAP and rid yourself of this particular infliction so that you can get on with enjoying life to the fullest again.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=47687.msg1433741#msg1433741 date=1322479457]
The problem Is an awful lot of people do blag it. I'm not saying that's te case here obviously, but I see it happen all the time in our place, until their sick pay runs out, when they return better than ever.
[/quote]

They do indeed yes. Actually my girlfriend was telling me yesterday about a friend of her's who was signed off work for months with depression whilst he was trying to set up a new business. In the end the doctor wouldn't sign him off any longer, the business was taking longer than he expected to set up so he just handed his notice in.

That is another problem where an illness is totally misunderstood and people don't really know how to deal with it. It makes it much easier for people to abuse the system. I honestly think that pretty much anyone who wants some time off work could walk into their doctors, claim they are depressed and get signed for a while.

 

[dmishra]

I guess the damage depression can do is something we've all seen at close quarters, whether through friends, family or acquaintances. We've all been through a rut ourselves, and know how terrible they can be. Can't imagine how it would be to have something like that affecting you on a permanent basis.

Good luck to all dealing with it.

 

[SummerOnions]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=47687.msg1433628#msg1433628 date=1322454622]

They help you cope with the day to day and then you can put yourself in a place where you can deal with the wider issues - ie beating this illness. My bout continues because yet again I can't sleep and insomnia is a fucking torture.


[/quote]

Amen to that, I take about 4 hours to get to sleep sometimes, it's fucking horrible.

 

[StevieM]

[quote author='Dave' link=topic=47687.msg1433726#msg1433726 date=1322478243]
Is medication really the answer?? Is it a stop gap?? Or do some people stay on the tablets forever because if they stop taking the medication the depression comes back??
[/quote]

Maybe to all.

I've been on sertraline for over 3 years. I probably haven't had much depression for the last 2. The drugs will have helped because the anxiety, the catastrophising, the self doubt & hating, the sleeping issues, the lack of energy, the suicidal thoughts.... They just haven't been pronounced.

Have I cured myself - probably not - might never. I can't say for sure that I could manage stress without them because I haven't tried. All I can say for certain is that I've travelled such a long way away from a pretty dark place of a starting point.

The very act of taking the step and going to a doctor and telling him I didn't know how I could cope was, as cheesie as it sounds, the first step to coping.

I had finally made the decision to start coming off the pills a few weeks back. It's been on the cards for quite a while - it feels like giving up smoking in a way (except this stuff us doing the opposite of killing me).

You can feel things changing when you come off them - it's strange - don't know how to describe it. Being on the pill that I take is good because the side effects are not as pronounced - there is no concentration issue or foggy head - all I find is that when anxiety builds it never gets to that point where it grips you and controls you.

In a way it's about being able to say, "you know what, I have every right to be upset or hurt our worried or anxious about things - it's part of being human - but I won't be controlled by these feelings anymore - I'll understand why I'm feeling them and master them."

It's likely that the conditions for a more acute depressive episode may exist, but I might be in a position to deal with it better.

I was in the process of coming off them - started a few weeks back - but December us not the time to risking an anxiety attack - too busy. January might be a go.

 

[Rosco]

When you get the anxiety attack Stevie how bad does that get ?

 

[Pesam]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=47687.msg1433752#msg1433752 date=1322479897]
[quote author='Dave' link=topic=47687.msg1433726#msg1433726 date=1322478243]
Is medication really the answer?? Is it a stop gap?? Or do some people stay on the tablets forever because if they stop taking the medication the depression comes back??
[/quote]

For me it is a coping mechanism that allows you to deal with the wider root causes. It allows you to the so called simple things like get up, wash, go to work and socialise. That means you have some free space to deal with the other things that can lead to depression.
[/quote]

A friend of mine had depression for many years and needed consistent medication to function. He had a successful business and was married with 2 very young kids. They wanted a 3rd kid and he was told he would have to come off the medication to get his wife pregnant. She became pregnant and he decided he didn't need to go back on medication. He commited suicide and his funeral was very traumatic as he left his wife with 2 very young kids and heavily pregnant. Very, very sad.

 

[peterhague]

[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47687.msg1433795#msg1433795 date=1322483945]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=47687.msg1433752#msg1433752 date=1322479897]
[quote author='Dave' link=topic=47687.msg1433726#msg1433726 date=1322478243]
Is medication really the answer?? Is it a stop gap?? Or do some people stay on the tablets forever because if they stop taking the medication the depression comes back??
[/quote]

For me it is a coping mechanism that allows you to deal with the wider root causes. It allows you to the so called simple things like get up, wash, go to work and socialise. That means you have some free space to deal with the other things that can lead to depression.
[/quote]

A friend of mine had depression for many years and needed consistent medication to function. He had a successful business and was married with 2 very young kids. They wanted a 3rd kid and he was told he would have to come off the medication to get his wife pregnant. She became pregnant and he decided he didn't need to go back on medication. He commited suicide and his funeral was very traumatic as he left his wife with 2 very young kids and heavily pregnant. Very, very sad.
[/quote]

Dear God.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47687.msg1433801#msg1433801 date=1322485064]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47687.msg1433795#msg1433795 date=1322483945]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=47687.msg1433752#msg1433752 date=1322479897]
[quote author='Dave' link=topic=47687.msg1433726#msg1433726 date=1322478243]
Is medication really the answer?? Is it a stop gap?? Or do some people stay on the tablets forever because if they stop taking the medication the depression comes back??
[/quote]

For me it is a coping mechanism that allows you to deal with the wider root causes. It allows you to the so called simple things like get up, wash, go to work and socialise. That means you have some free space to deal with the other things that can lead to depression.
[/quote]

A friend of mine had depression for many years and needed consistent medication to function. He had a successful business and was married with 2 very young kids. They wanted a 3rd kid and he was told he would have to come off the medication to get his wife pregnant. She became pregnant and he decided he didn't need to go back on medication. He commited suicide and his funeral was very traumatic as he left his wife with 2 very young kids and heavily pregnant. Very, very sad.
[/quote]

Dear God.
[/quote]

Yep indeed. I never used to understand suicide and have come out with the selfish line before. I'm starting to get an horrific insight to it. As I said to you on text this morning, Gary Speed's death and the whole, "he seemed ok hours before" has struck this massive chord with me.

It kept me awake most of the night - well that and one neighbour slamming his front door loud enough to wake the dead.

 

[StevieM]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47687.msg1433794#msg1433794 date=1322483923]
When you get the anxiety attack Stevie how bad does that get ?
[/quote]

Depends - it can be brain racing not allowing me to settle enough to sleep - being overly figidy. I was at session once and if was commented that I was very fidgety and edgy - couldn't sit at peace or stop looking around. My blood pressure was taken and the nurse shit herself enough to say the thing must have been broken, get another one and then get a doctor when the result was much the same - I think they were considering admitting me for observation.

I once took a panic attack before a law exam at uni and just simply couldn't attend.

It could be pacing and feeling on the verge of hyperventilation.

I've wanted to pull my hair out (not that I have any) - it's led to a complete loss of emotional control - curled up in a sobbing mess. It's made me run away from people or situations - like being out at a dinner and just have to leave.

It's made me scared to interact with people. I had a really good friend years ago that called me on my mobile while I was not doing so well. I couldn't answer the phone and I was that anxious about having to see him that I deleted his number. He moved away shortly after and I never saw him again.

It's made me angry to the point blind rage over nothing.

These are all extreme - and generally linked to particular emotional trauma.

The most common is the inability to sleep or rest, even though fucking tired. It's like being held in a vice - tossing, turning, thrashing about - up an down, almost scratching at your head go get it to leave you alone.

Meds take the edge off - making a bout of insomnia feel manageable.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=47687.msg1433805#msg1433805 date=1322485667]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47687.msg1433801#msg1433801 date=1322485064]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47687.msg1433795#msg1433795 date=1322483945]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=47687.msg1433752#msg1433752 date=1322479897]
[quote author='Dave' link=topic=47687.msg1433726#msg1433726 date=1322478243]
Is medication really the answer?? Is it a stop gap?? Or do some people stay on the tablets forever because if they stop taking the medication the depression comes back??
[/quote]

For me it is a coping mechanism that allows you to deal with the wider root causes. It allows you to the so called simple things like get up, wash, go to work and socialise. That means you have some free space to deal with the other things that can lead to depression.
[/quote]

A friend of mine had depression for many years and needed consistent medication to function. He had a successful business and was married with 2 very young kids. They wanted a 3rd kid and he was told he would have to come off the medication to get his wife pregnant. She became pregnant and he decided he didn't need to go back on medication. He commited suicide and his funeral was very traumatic as he left his wife with 2 very young kids and heavily pregnant. Very, very sad.
[/quote]

Dear God.
[/quote]

Yep indeed. I never used to understand suicide and have come out with the selfish line before. I'm starting to get an horrific insight to it. As I said to you on text this morning, Gary Speed's death and the whole, "he seemed ok hours before" has struck this massive chord with me.

It kept me awake most of the night - well that and one neighbour slamming his front door loud enough to wake the dead.
[/quote]

Did you stick the DVD in?

Seriously though, i never used to understand why people took their own lives, but now I do...you just want the pain to stop and you think that as long as you live the pain will always be there...death is easier...

I do think that from that point, there is still a long way to go before actually ending your life...but i think it's a start.

My hope is that as long as I dont give up; things may get better and that keeps me going.

I havent taken medication yet, its a lot harder here than in the UK...and theres a terrible stigma attached to it.

But it it something I will look at.

Coming on here has helped in many ways.

 

[darkstarexodus]

The length of treatment varies a lot from person to person. Ideally you want to use the medication along with counselling, etc until the depression is in remission for a minimum of six months. At that point, in conjunction with your physician, you may make the decision to taper off. However, some people have a very difficult time tapering.off the medication, with even the smallest dose reductions triggering a return of symptoms. And some people, while benefitting from treatment, near really reach full remission of symptoms. So it can be a long term medication, as everyone's case is different, but it doesnt have to be. The key is to take it at the pace that works.for you and.not faster or slower because someone else did it that way. Again, being honest with your care provider helps him/her aid you in making these decisions.

 

[StevieM]

[quote author=Avvy link=topic=47687.msg1433817#msg1433817 date=1322486326]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=47687.msg1433805#msg1433805 date=1322485667]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47687.msg1433801#msg1433801 date=1322485064]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=47687.msg1433795#msg1433795 date=1322483945]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=47687.msg1433752#msg1433752 date=1322479897]
[quote author='Dave' link=topic=47687.msg1433726#msg1433726 date=1322478243]
Is medication really the answer?? Is it a stop gap?? Or do some people stay on the tablets forever because if they stop taking the medication the depression comes back??
[/quote]

For me it is a coping mechanism that allows you to deal with the wider root causes. It allows you to the so called simple things like get up, wash, go to work and socialise. That means you have some free space to deal with the other things that can lead to depression.
[/quote]

A friend of mine had depression for many years and needed consistent medication to function. He had a successful business and was married with 2 very young kids. They wanted a 3rd kid and he was told he would have to come off the medication to get his wife pregnant. She became pregnant and he decided he didn't need to go back on medication. He commited suicide and his funeral was very traumatic as he left his wife with 2 very young kids and heavily pregnant. Very, very sad.
[/quote]

Dear God.
[/quote]

Yep indeed. I never used to understand suicide and have come out with the selfish line before. I'm starting to get an horrific insight to it. As I said to you on text this morning, Gary Speed's death and the whole, "he seemed ok hours before" has struck this massive chord with me.

It kept me awake most of the night - well that and one neighbour slamming his front door loud enough to wake the dead.
[/quote]

Did you stick the DVD in?

Seriously though, i never used to understand why people took their own lives, but now I do...you just want the pain to stop and you think that as long as you live the pain will always be there...death is easier...

I do think that from that point, there is still a long way to go before actually ending your life...but i think it's a start.

My hope is that as long as I dont give up; things may get better and that keeps me going.

I havent taken medication yet, its a lot harder here than in the UK...and theres a terrible stigma attached to it.

But it it something I will look at.

Coming on here has helped in many ways.
[/quote]

It does help mate and people don't need to know. But it's also like has been mentioned it's only part if the process.

My doctor at the time was very good at gently pushing me in to other support orientated things - like getting a hobby - seeing a therapist that could help work through. Vegan suggesting books to read.

Anyone interested should try "Change Your Thinking" by Sarah Edelman. It's an Aussie book, so dont know how available it is but it's all about using cognitive behavior therapy to help overcome depression, anxiety, etc

Helped me get started.

 

[Y1]

Avvy, seriously mate, hope you have circle of friends and medical help here in Malaysia. PM me if you need any help.