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Defensive Midfielder

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robinhood

robinhood

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Last night we couldn't keep hold of the ball very well when we had it, but worse than that, we were fucking clueless at trying to get it back in the first place when we didn't.

There's a different style of play going on under Roy (unrefined as it may be), and consequently I don't think the loss of Alonso is as great this season as it was last season, whilst we were still trying to play Rafa's way (as the general movement in the midfield is actually better these days). Also we've got Merciless, who, whilst no Alonso, is a decent player and fits into this team quite well.

The main problem seems to me to be the loss of Mascherano (which is no major surprise considering we've only recently lost him)... the problem is (regardless of whether you're a "fan" or not), Lucas is never a defensive midfielder. Rafa made him play that role, and he was shit at it, but it's not his game (regardless of his overall quality) anyway.

Poulsen, so far, has been basically a joke, so he's no use.

The issue isn't how we set up, or where we play Gerrard (because the formation is reasonably flexible now), or whether Cole comes good for us or not, or whether Kuyt can really do a good job up top with or just behind Torres (all these things are unclear how they will ultimately pan out)...

...the issue is that we miss Mascher: we can't win the ball back very easily because we don't have one central midfielder that specialises in this.

OK - Gerrard can do it, but regardless of where he is played, he can't be given this essential job to do as a primary task or we'll basically never create any chances.

No.1 on Budgie's shopping list ought to be either a quality DM or another CM that specialises in this sort of thing. It would make a world of difference.

But is he clear about this and who is he likely to sign?
 
It can be easily solved with playing Meireles in his favoured position. He has no problem with playing as a dm.

But old man Roy is playing him at right wing, were he has never played before.
 
He probably is more comfortable being a cm, but there isn't much difference if you ask me. With Hodgsons tactics we sit so low anyway. The point is he can win the ball and start attacks.

I'm not disagreeing with you though. Lucas and Poulsen aren't good enough, so we definetly need a new midfielder. Someone in the mold of Matuidi/M'Vila or Moussa Sissoko.

But untill then, Meireles can do the job.
 
I'd hate to see him fucked around like that tbh Hansern, ideally we'd have quality in the wide roles and then our midfield and attack would be:

------------DM-Meireles------------
--??????-----Gerrard----??????--
----------------Torres---------------

I understand needs must sometimes, but the lad has already been played on the right and is one of our few bright players in midfield so to compensate for our lack of quality outwide, I'd at least like to see the 'good' players playing their favoured roles.
 
I'm not advocating playing him out of position mate. I'm just saying he can play central in both 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1. But not as an attacking midfielder or a winger obvs. But he is a ballwinner and can play next to a more free roled Gerrard. He has the game intelligence, skill and disipline to do that.

Roy has no clue on where to play him. I think he has been excellent and one of the few bright spots this season, when played centrally. Thats where he should be played.

Take note Roy.
 
Mark, he can handle either role. His first appearances as a pro were actually at LB and he can put his foot in if required.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42724.msg1216295#msg1216295 date=1289503430]
Mark, he can handle either role. His first appearances as a pro were actually at LB and he can put his foot in if required.
[/quote]

Fair enough, I just don't want to see his natural abilities restricted, like if he's more of an attacker.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=42724.msg1216296#msg1216296 date=1289503471]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=42724.msg1216295#msg1216295 date=1289503430]
Mark, he can handle either role. His first appearances as a pro were actually at LB and he can put his foot in if required.
[/quote]

Fair enough, I just don't want to see his natural abilities restricted, like if he's more of an attacker.
[/quote]

He is by no means more of an attacker, his best trait may be his shot. But he also has great work rate and can tackle very well after all he did play LB a lot for his two previous clubs. He was very impressive for Portugal in the World Cup playing on the left of a 3 man midfield. They played a 4-3-3 with attacking wingbacks. He and Coentrao alone covered the whole left side of the pitch. This meant a lot of covering for the attacking Coentrao and also a lot of attacking to provide support and width he showed a lot of dribbling technique and strength on the ball. I have no doubt that he and Gerrard would make a marvelous centre midfield partnership in Roy's favoured 4-4-2, the problem as every one and there brother knows is we lack people who can play rm and lm (or rw, lw) and I hope that is the only thing keeping Roy from making the simple decision.
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=42724.msg1216281#msg1216281 date=1289502142]
He probably is more comfortable being a cm, but there isn't much difference if you ask me. With Hodgsons tactics we sit so low anyway. The point is he can win the ball and start attacks.

I'm not disagreeing with you though. Lucas and Poulsen aren't good enough, so we definetly need a new midfielder. Someone in the mold of Matuidi/M'Vila or Moussa Sissoko.

But untill then, Meireles can do the job.
[/quote]

M'Vila I have seen (for France). He was quite impressive. Very dominating and driving, in the Vieira mould.

Just checked wiki. Only twenty years old as well:

Yann M'Vila (born 29 June 1990) is a French football player of Congolese descent who plays for French club Rennes in Ligue 1. He operates as a defensive midfielder and is known for his technical skill and physical strength.[1] He is the younger brother of Yohan M'Vila, who plays for Ligue 2 club Dijon. M'Vila is a French international having played at all levels and has captained several of his age groups including the under-19 team that reached the semi-finals of the 2009 UEFA European Under-19 Football Championship. He is currently playing for both the under-21 team and the senior team. He made his senior debut on 11 August 2010 in a friendly match against Norway.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=42724.msg1216305#msg1216305 date=1289504725]

M'Vila I have seen (for France). He was quite impressive. Very dominating and driving, in the Vieira mould.
[/quote]

I'll take that. Sign him up.
 
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=42724.msg1216306#msg1216306 date=1289504769]
Where's 'ming' come from?
[/quote]

Portugal.
 
I actually think Hodgson's style of play requires Alonsos rather than Mascheranos, although either would walk into our team.

His willingness to sit back when the opposition have the ball, and indeed to seemingly cede at times, means we need people who can distribute the ball quickly, incisively and accurately to breaking team mates (in our case that's Torres and Gerrard with Kuyt and Maxi trying to keep up).

Mascherano, on winning back the ball, didn't do that, he just made a short pass to Carragher or the full back.
 
Whilst we could do with Alonso, Hodgson's team isn't as static as Rafa's, and so more general teamwork seems to create chances. Alonso dictated almost all plays when he was in the team and his intelligence made up a lot of the time for the lack of creativity inherent in Rafa's style.

Our primary problem the other day was that we went for long stretches without being able to win the ball back - Mascherano, rather than Alonso, would be the solution to this.
 
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=42724.msg1216306#msg1216306 date=1289504769]
Where's 'ming' come from?
[/quote]

[glow=red,2,300]All Hail Ming The Merciless![/glow]
 
Aye....we need a new DM.

A DM who can dictate play from the deep would be a real asset.

Poulsen was really a shitty purchase.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=42724.msg1216316#msg1216316 date=1289505899]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=42724.msg1216306#msg1216306 date=1289504769]
Where's 'ming' come from?
[/quote]

Portugal.
[/quote]

You're better than this.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42724.msg1216329#msg1216329 date=1289507637]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=42724.msg1216306#msg1216306 date=1289504769]
Where's 'ming' come from?
[/quote]

[glow=red,2,300]All Hail Ming The Merciless![/glow]
[/quote]

Ahh cheers. I get it now. *Bows down to Ming*
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=42724.msg1216328#msg1216328 date=1289507441]
Whilst we could do with Alonso, Hodgson's team isn't as static as Rafa's, and so more general teamwork seems to create chances. Alonso dictated almost all plays when he was in the team and his intelligence made up a lot of the time for the lack of creativity inherent in Rafa's style.

Our primary problem the other day was that we went for long stretches without being able to win the ball back - Mascherano, rather than Alonso, would be the solution to this.
[/quote]

I think it's more important to be able to use the ball well with your 40% possession than to have it for 60% but use it poorly.

Of course, a good team has it for 55/60%+ and uses it well but that's not something our coach knows about, unfortunately.
 
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=42724.msg1216333#msg1216333 date=1289508342]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=42724.msg1216316#msg1216316 date=1289505899]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=42724.msg1216306#msg1216306 date=1289504769]
Where's 'ming' come from?
[/quote]

Portugal.
[/quote]

You're better than this.
[/quote]

No. I'm really not.
 
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=42724.msg1216336#msg1216336 date=1289508441]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=42724.msg1216333#msg1216333 date=1289508342]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=42724.msg1216316#msg1216316 date=1289505899]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=42724.msg1216306#msg1216306 date=1289504769]
Where's 'ming' come from?
[/quote]

Portugal.
[/quote]

You're better than this.
[/quote]

No. I'm really not.
[/quote]
Oh come on. I just read your aeroplane quip about Fox in the general forum. THAT is the Gene I want to see!
 
Gerrard has GREAT long-range pass. And I love how he can start an attacking move from deep inside our half, and then, because he has so much speed and stamina, run all the way forward and join the attack... When Gerrard plays CM, frankly, I don't miss Alonso at all.

The Mascherano question is interesting. I have to think more about it.
 
[quote author=rurikbird link=topic=42724.msg1216409#msg1216409 date=1289536104]
Gerrard has GREAT long-range pass. And I love how he can start an attacking move from deep inside our half, and then, because he has so much speed and stamina, run all the way forward and join the attack... When Gerrard plays CM, frankly, I don't miss Alonso at all.

The Mascherano question is interesting. I have to think more about it.
[/quote]

I have maintained this even when Xabi Alonso was around.

Gerrard has just as big a passing range as Xabi, it's just that he has so much more to his game he doesn't only rely on that. When he starts losing his pace, he can easily play the Xabi role in the team.

Gerrard is a monster of a CM. We take it for granted that we have such a great player.

If one English manager had the sense to use him as the pivotal player and build the team around him, things would have been so much more different for England. England missed out a lot because of indulging with the London boy Lampard. It's criminal to shunt Gerrard to Left or Right or defensive midfield for most of his career. At the very least they should have stuck with him as DM. Ideally it should have been a DM and Gerrard and 8 other outfield players around them.
 
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=42724.msg1216338#msg1216338 date=1289508830]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=42724.msg1216336#msg1216336 date=1289508441]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=42724.msg1216333#msg1216333 date=1289508342]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=42724.msg1216316#msg1216316 date=1289505899]
[quote author=Halmeister link=topic=42724.msg1216306#msg1216306 date=1289504769]
Where's 'ming' come from?
[/quote]

Portugal.
[/quote]

You're better than this.
[/quote]

No. I'm really not.
[/quote]
Oh come on. I just read your aeroplane quip about Fox in the general forum. THAT is the Gene I want to see!
[/quote]

[size=6pt]FWIW, that quip would have definitely made The Gene Pool.[/size]
 
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