• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Coutinho...

Status
Not open for further replies.

Gary25

Well-Known
Member
Flattering to deceive?

This isn't intended to bring a bit of negativity into proceedins because we're top of the table and there's loads of reasons to be positive.

That said, for the last few months I have to say I haven't been at all impressed with Coutinho. For me he over elaborates on the ball, his decision-making is iffy and generally he isn't having all that great an influence.

I'd say in the last few weeks we've played some of the best football I've ever witnessed from a Liverpool side.
With Coutinho this supposed magician on the ball and creative genius, you'd think he'd have been at the heart of it but really it's been Henderson, Sterling and of course Suarez...backed up by the neat and tidy play from Lucas and Allen.

There's no doubting Coutinho is a class act when he's on form and he's still only 21 but imo he needs to do more.

Thoughts?
 
I think he's been superb.

While he may not be scoring goals, he's constantly moving, looking to take the ball, rarely losing it under pressure and usually creates space for Hendo in behind.

Not to mention taking up a couple of defenders to give Sterling and Suarez more space to work in.

If he continues as is for the season I'll be more than happy.
 
One of the few players in our team who can create something. It's true he's not been as mesmeric as he was last season but if he's fit, he's without doubt one of the first names on the team sheet.
 
Criticizing him would be ignoring all the brilliant work he does between the lines.
He's been vital to the way we've been playing.
Of course he could do more by getting on the score sheet, but there's not one player in our squad that can do what he does every week, and that's not even talking about his amazing through balls.

When he's out, we look so ordinary in attack. We've experienced this both this season and last season.
One of the very first names on the team sheet.
 
Dip in form at the start of the season, followed by an injury - now, like Sterling, improving with each game.

It's critical he continues to impove.
 
Coutinho's been a lot better than the counting stats would argue, he's constantly playing in dangerous passes, and is definitely unlucky not to have a few more goals and assists. He's hit the woodwork in our last two matches after all.

Just seems of late that when he plays somebody in on goal, they can't manage to finish. Case in point, the second goal against Spurs where he brings down Sterling's lofted ball, and plays it perfectly first time to Hendo. Luckily for us, we got a couple deflections to fall kindly, but the key passes were Sterling and Coutinho to create that attack.
 
Other players may be getting the headlines but hes still been playing well, as mentioned theres no-one else in our team that can do the job he does, he really is massive for us, hes doing a fine job from what i can see, hes only going to get better aswell.

The 4 games we lost this season he didn't start.
 
The attacking influence of Liverpool’s Philippe Coutinho

By Rich Taylor
Dec-18-2013

Coutinho-Liverpool-Action-Images-Carl-Recine.jpg


Philippe Coutinho was much lauded by Liverpool fans as their saviour before the start of this season, especially with the prospect of Luis Suarez missing the opening 6 games, or even worse; joining rivals Arsenal. His popularity among the Anfield faithful is reflected by the fact that more Number 10 shirts have been sold than any other for Liverpool this year, and based on last season’s performances, it’s easy to see why. He was a revelation after arriving from Inter Milan last January and was a massive part of Liverpool’s transformation last season, scoring 3 goals and providing 5 assists in just 12 games in the run in which saw Liverpool amass more Premier League points than anyone except current league leaders Arsenal in the second half of last season. Coutinho has been employed wide-left and in the hole behind the striker as part of a 4-3-3 which Brendan Rodgers tends to favour and is probably best known for his killer through balls in the final third.

So how has the 21-year-old Brazilian performed this season? Although we are coming up to the half-way point of the Premier League season, Coutinho has only played 830 minutes this season after a shoulder injury picked up against Swansea in mid-September kept him out for approximately 6 weeks, but that is a fair sample size to judge how he is coping in his first full season in the Premier League.

2415e0n.jpg


Shown above is a table of the top 15 players in the Premier League (those who have played 800 minutes or more) in terms of passing stats in a comparison with Coutinho. A casual look at the main passing stats would suggest that Coutinho has had a slow start and failed to reach the heights he set himself last year. From the selected players in the above table, he is lowest in terms of Final 3rd pass completion (60th overall in Premier League), lowest in pass completion (106th overall) and is amongst the lowest in completed passes per 90 minutes. However there may be an alternative analysis to be made, and an alternative conclusion to be reached other than “Coutinho is a bad passer”.

As mentioned earlier, Coutinho really made a name for himself last season with his killer through balls, threading the eye of the needle, and if we look at the statistics for through balls, we can see he is in good company this season.

xnzvnm.jpg


Aaron Ramsey, Jack Wilshere, Steven Gerrard and (perhaps surprisingly) Olivier Giroud, are the only players other than Coutinho who have managed to reach 5 successful through balls this season, but it is the attempted through balls that I believe is most relevant, and perhaps a contributing factor for his poor passing percentage in the opponent’s third. Coutinho has attempted 26 through balls this season, 6 more than Ramsey despite playing 510 fewer minutes, giving him a rate of 2.82 attempted through balls attempted per 90 minutes, more than twice as many attempts per game than anybody else, with the exception of Jack Wilshere. Obviously attempting through balls all the time is going to result in a much lower passing percentage than someone who is going to look for the easy sideways or backwards pass every time in order to play it safe and retain possession.

Even with all those through balls, is Coutinho contributing enough? Looking at the goals and assists so far this season, you may be forgiven for thinking that 1 goal (which was little more than a tap in from a corner) and 1 assist (which came from a Coutinho corner) would suggest that he is underperforming, and there is no doubt that Coutinho will be disappointed with that return, but the table below suggests differently:

2921bip.jpg


Despite the fairly meagre return from goals and assists, Coutinho has actually created 6 “Big Chances” (passes which lead to a clear-cut scoring opportunity) this season, a feat only bettered by Luis Suarez and Aaron Ramsey, unarguably the two best players in the Premier League so far, along with Sergio Aguero. Coutinho is again rivalling the elite in the league despite significantly reduced playing time, borne out by the highest number of clear-cut chances created per 90 minutes in the Premier League, again with a significant lead over most players. The fact that he only has one assist, whereas players like Ozil and Rooney have more assists, despite creating fewer big chances, may be a statistical blip due to the reasonably small sample size, or could speak to the profligacy of Liverpool (or the efficiency of Arsenal/Manchester United) in front of goal.

It would seem Coutinho has been given a clear objective by his boss to always be on the lookout for the killer ball, and attempt to play it often, giving him license to slide down the pass completion charts, especially in the final third. Brendan Rodgers won’t mind that too much though – his Liverpool team win the ball in the opponent’s third more than any other team in the Premier League – and if Coutinho can keep feeding through balls at his current rate for Luis Suarez and Daniel Sturridge, Liverpool can expect to see him climbing the assists charts soon.
 
As others have mentioned , he should have more assistants than he does , others have let his set up play down . Didn't he play a lovely ball through for johnson against cardiff only for johnson to fuck his touch up ? That should have been a goal and assist .

Ok he probably hasn't been as good as his first few months but he's still so influential , the assists and goals will come . He probably just needs to relax a little in terms trying to score himself . He seems too desperate to get a goal and is taking poor long distance shots .

And he's way ahead of Sterling as a footballer . Sterling has had one excellent game and two decent ones .
 
He is dragging a lot of his shots. He should just curl them into the far top corner and be done with it. This will happen against City.
 
I can sympathize with the original poster's sentiments. Last season it seemed as though there was no pass he couldn't hit with robotic like precision. If he was to continue in that vein or even improve he'd easily find himself alongside players like Iniesta and Silva in no time. It's not quite happened though (partly for reasons already mentioned). The laser accuracy has gone a little bit and we see imperfections. This year he's looked more like what he really is - a talented young player still learning.

That said, as people have pointed out, he and players like him are so important because they have the ability to play when there isn't much space or time on the ball. Most players (you'd hope) can trap a ball in acres of space and pick out a pass. Getting the ball, wriggling away from two opposition players and then doing something positive with the ball - as opposed to losing it or playing it back to the defence - is a quality that cannot be underestimated. I've said this before but for me it's one of the big reasons why Barcelona have been so successful. And it's one of the reasons we look much more effective.
 
On Saturday he put 3x through balls through, creating one on ones for Suarez, Sterling and Johnson. All fucked up the one on ones. If they'd scored them then this thread wouldn't exist.

He's fucking brilliant, I could watch him play all day long.

He also played the ball over the top last week for one of the goals, hit the woodwork last week and this week. He's been really good, perhaps not quite hitting the heights of last season, but he's not far off going off recent games. As for the Silva comparison, well Silva is a few years more experienced and people forget that, like with any player of his ilk, he too can be a bit hit and miss. When he's on top of his game he's brilliant, but he's not on top of his game all of the time, we just magnify it with Coutinho and other players because he's our own and we watch him so intensely. If he carries on progressing as he has done and having such a positive impact, then he'll be right up there.

As Keni said, his ability in tight spaces is a major importance to us and it helps of late that he's not playing as the third midfielder, but rather with three players behind him, freeing him to play his natural game without continuous reliance on him putting in a shift.
 
On a sidenote, when Coutinho starts the game for us:

2013/14: 10 league starts, 8 wins 2 draws, 29 scored 8 conceded
2012/13: 12 league starts, 7 wins 4 draws 1 defeat, 27 scored 9 conceded

when Coutinho does not start:

2013/14: 7 league games, 3 wins 1 draw 3 defeats 13 scored, 11 conceded
 
I don't even know if he has dipped in form, it's more like he doesn't stand out as much or is overshadowed when Henderson Allen and Sterling are upping their game.
 
So we either win or draw when he starts this season. Seems about right, we're downright awful without him on the pitch. We need his movement and creativity in midfield. How delightful is it to finally have someone in midfield who gets passed players with ease?

It's funny, my younger brother who's a Man U supporter thinks its more fun to watch Liverpool play lately and he loves watching Suarez, Coutinho and Sturridge.
 
he is awesome. he is always on the move, always available for the pass and perfectly links up midfield and attack. couldnt give a fuck if he isn't contributing with goals and assists because his contribution to the team is massive
 
Today it's Coutinho.

Tomorrow it'll be someone else.

Win, lose or draw - it don't matter.

That's just how it is with bored fans.
A bit harsh, the poster was posing a question not unreasonable in light of the standards and expectations we have come to associate with coutinho. For me it boggles the mind he is still 21. Wow. He will improve no end.
 
He has talked a couple of times about his desire to get into the Brazil world cup squad. Maybe he is trying too hard to make things happen in terms of goals and assists to impress Scolari.
 
Flattering to deceive?

This isn't intended to bring a bit of negativity into proceedins because we're top of the table and there's loads of reasons to be positive.

That said, for the last few months I have to say I haven't been at all impressed with Coutinho. For me he over elaborates on the ball, his decision-making is iffy and generally he isn't having all that great an influence.

I'd say in the last few weeks we've played some of the best football I've ever witnessed from a Liverpool side.
With Coutinho this supposed magician on the ball and creative genius, you'd think he'd have been at the heart of it but really it's been Henderson, Sterling and of course Suarez...backed up by the neat and tidy play from Lucas and Allen.

There's no doubting Coutinho is a class act when he's on form and he's still only 21 but imo he needs to do more.

Thoughts?

my thoughts: overly negative!
 
He seems to take a while to make his presence felt in recent games, but I think he's done okay this season. He needs one really great performance against a top four team to boost his confidence.
 
He is only twenty one.
Even playing to expectations he is intrinsic to making us tick.
He is already a top player.
If he develops at just an expected rate he will be a world class player.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom