Coutinho gone. 142m
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Dembele is 5 years younger though. Brazilians seem to go downhill earlier than most other nations. I reckon Coutiho has 3-4 years tops.
I'm not in the Modo wish him all the best camp but the wailing and gnashing of teeth from some posters here is hilarious.
Didn't we just do the same to Southampton's star player? At least Coutinho has actually played well for the last couple of months. VvD didn't bother his hole since he returned from injury.
Didn't we just do the same to Southampton's star player? At least Coutinho has actually played well for the last couple of months. VvD didn't bother his hole since he returned from injury.
Soton replaced him in the summer ... and are our feeder club officially. We're not yet for Barcelona. 😉
The gnashing of teeth is not at him going (though Summer would be preferred) but at the fee. We just paid £75m for VVD so I doubt Southampton are crying into their milk. If Barca were to pay us enough for us to replace him and make a decent profit for turning him into this world class player when he was languishing in Italy then most of us would likely be satisfied.
We can't look at selling Coutinho in isolation, we need to consider the cost of who is going to replace him and if as has been suggested it is both Mahrez (around £50m) and Lemar (around £90m) then we don't want to be out of pocket .. so add agent's fees (tax should be offset, one by the other) to those transfer fees and that's what we should be looking at.
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If he won the World Cup, surely Neymar would have won it too.
But without a CL medal.
If only it was that simple.
Factoring in also the likelihood of us having to pay over the odds to sign replacements in the January window. Monaco have already hinted they don't intend to sell Lemar and I'm not sure how keen Leicester will be at this point. I'm sure everyone has a price but surely we need to have those players lined up before we agree to any sale. That concerns me more than the price, to be honest.
All I'm bothered about is this latest circus derailing our season at the point where we are playing well, got through the ludicrous Xmas programme in a decent position in the top 4 and with hope for progress in the 2 big cups we are still in. All of that could disappear pretty quickly, starting tonight, if we are not careful. Klopp did his best yesterday to refute the notion that the players could be distracted but sure as hell he is at the moment because he has to cop for the Coutinho factor coming up 24/7. Footballers can be affected by this shit and it's not just Phil, everyone knows Can is on his bike as well and that's a big part of our starting XI leaving the camp.
The club has to deal with this stuff and not let it fester, no sooner do we have the boost of VVD joining than this blows up and for the life of me I cannot comprehend why we should let Coutinho go now and not insist 100% that he can leave in the summer but not now under any circumstances, even if he goes on strike for the rest of the window. Instead we seem to be encouraging a bid with all our friendly journos briefed about the acceptable price ffs.
We had better have some quality recruits coming in or we will be weakened in the 2nd half of the season just when we need to push on from here.
The club has to deal with this stuff and not let it fester, no sooner do we have the boost of VVD joining than this blows up and for the life of me I cannot comprehend why we should let Coutinho go now and not insist 100% that he can leave in the summer but not now under any circumstances, even if he goes on strike for the rest of the window. Instead we seem to be encouraging a bid with all our friendly journos briefed about the acceptable price ffs.
We had better have some quality recruits coming in or we will be weakened in the 2nd half of the season just when we need to push on from here.
And if he won the CL?
Depends on who played the bigger games part in the WC win in my opinion
Sir Bobby Firmino. And he won the CL as well. (Phil will probably get a medal as he played the Group stages. As it is Your opinion who Counts here.
If I had to guess I think that's why Klopp wants to sell now, so it's dealt with and not festering. Coutinho has been asked about a possible move in almost every interview he's had since the end of august. If he doesn't move this month it'll be the same until the summer, all through the summer, and will only end when he moves. Plus - I don't think Klopp wants anyone here who doesn't want to be here. He'd rather just get rid. Which is fine by me as long as we have suitable replacements lined up already - and not get into a post-Suarez sale situation where we try for Sanchez and get Balotelli.
Yep. It's just the football food-chain.
Ok. So the CL doesn't come into it at all really.
Can isn't leaving until the SUmmer and wil want to play his way into the German WC squad. No worries on that count. I'm still not convinced that Coutinho will be allowed to leave this window but it's looking more and more likely given that Reddy and Pearce seem to be preparing us for the news.
I still don't think it is beyond the bounds of reason that Cuntyo stays if we are unable to put deals in place for his replacement(s).
Liverpool's record with Coutinho (6-6-1 & 30-15) in the PL is worse than our record without him (6-1-1 & 20-10) and we didn't win a single match against the Top 6 with him but without him we did beat Arsenal 4-0.
CL record is similar, with (2-3-0 & 20-6) and without (3-1-0 & 10-4).
As can been seen he isn't a critical cog in the machine despite his fine performances overall. Of course I'd prefer to have him, we have a settled attack and integrating a new player (e.g. Mahrez or Lemar) isn't ideal but with one of those two plus VVD I think (hope) we'll be a stronger team overall in the remaining 16 games of the PL.
To take this a step further : If I was put on the spot and asked why our record is better without him (and actually there could be many factors involved and it might not be so simplistic as this) I'd say that we are better defensively as he contributes little to nothing in that regard. Looking at the goals for and against per match over all the matches with and without; with 2.78 vs 1.17 and without 2.50 vs 1.17.
So not much in it, maybe the extra goals come from matches where we have annihilated the opposition ; Spartak 7-0, Maribor 7-0, Swansea 5-0, Bournemouth 4-0, Brighton 5-1 all matches he played and scored in. And I don't think it's a weak argument to say we would have won all of those without him anyway.
CL record is similar, with (2-3-0 & 20-6) and without (3-1-0 & 10-4).
As can been seen he isn't a critical cog in the machine despite his fine performances overall. Of course I'd prefer to have him, we have a settled attack and integrating a new player (e.g. Mahrez or Lemar) isn't ideal but with one of those two plus VVD I think (hope) we'll be a stronger team overall in the remaining 16 games of the PL.
To take this a step further : If I was put on the spot and asked why our record is better without him (and actually there could be many factors involved and it might not be so simplistic as this) I'd say that we are better defensively as he contributes little to nothing in that regard. Looking at the goals for and against per match over all the matches with and without; with 2.78 vs 1.17 and without 2.50 vs 1.17.
So not much in it, maybe the extra goals come from matches where we have annihilated the opposition ; Spartak 7-0, Maribor 7-0, Swansea 5-0, Bournemouth 4-0, Brighton 5-1 all matches he played and scored in. And I don't think it's a weak argument to say we would have won all of those without him anyway.
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It's all relative, I guess and can see why some people would say the above but Southampton is a selling club (likely to have sold that to van Dijk when taking him from Celtic) and always has been. Southampton was just miffed not because we got in touch with him but the expected auction didn't take off. At any rate, we didn't then come out each day and plant falsehoods nor recruit the might of the Merseyside media machine to wage a campaign to lure another club's player but, instead, tucked our tail between our legs when caught and apologised.
No, the gnashing of teeth is over something entirely different.
I know it is a bit contrary to what seems to be the general opinion but I reckon a fee in excess of £140m is more than fair for Phil.
He would become the third most expensive player in history while debatable he probably isn't even the best in his position in the Premier League.
Ask any neutral and they would probably put De Bruyne, Hazzard and Ali at least on a par if not above Phil.
That said I would sooner have it that he wanted to stay but if he goes for that figure then I think we will have done reasonably well. Replacing may be difficult but I have a lot more confidence that our current regime can do that sucessfully than I would in previous ones
The only fly in the ointment is that the touted figure of £140m seem to be more what we are prepared to accept rather than Barca will offer.
I am not convinced that they won't continue to try and get him on the (relative) cheap perhaps hoping that Coutinho will force through a move this time round.
So I wonder if we have actually played this whole game rather well up to now, outlining a generous but not outlandish fee for Coutinho, which means that Barca either stump up the cash or failing that we hang on to a player that we can reasonably point out to, that we were not the obstacle to his ambitions.
Time will tell I guess.
He would become the third most expensive player in history while debatable he probably isn't even the best in his position in the Premier League.
Ask any neutral and they would probably put De Bruyne, Hazzard and Ali at least on a par if not above Phil.
That said I would sooner have it that he wanted to stay but if he goes for that figure then I think we will have done reasonably well. Replacing may be difficult but I have a lot more confidence that our current regime can do that sucessfully than I would in previous ones
The only fly in the ointment is that the touted figure of £140m seem to be more what we are prepared to accept rather than Barca will offer.
I am not convinced that they won't continue to try and get him on the (relative) cheap perhaps hoping that Coutinho will force through a move this time round.
So I wonder if we have actually played this whole game rather well up to now, outlining a generous but not outlandish fee for Coutinho, which means that Barca either stump up the cash or failing that we hang on to a player that we can reasonably point out to, that we were not the obstacle to his ambitions.
Time will tell I guess.
Fair? Fuck that shit right off right now. Fair gets you nowhere these days. We should be telling Barca to pay us at least £170m or more for Coutinho. I don't care if he's not the best in the league in his position. He is however a key component of our team and the way we play. And if we're going to lose him to that shower of shite in the Jan window then we should be telling them to stump up a heck of a lot more than £140m. I'm not even adverse to taking £100m up front and then £15m a year over the 5 years of his contract as long as it's guaranteed Payment and not for appearances, goals, trophies etc. Fuck fair off though.
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