Why are fucking up a Jamie Carragher thread with all this Masher bollocks
The whining little twat has got what he wanted, fuck him and fuck Barca
The whining little twat has got what he wanted, fuck him and fuck Barca
'Class and dignity': a great Carra interview
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Ross, that isn't what the "Echo" reported. According to them Masher wanted to continue training with the team and it was Roy who said no when he decided Masher wasn't in the right frame of mind.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41756.msg1170056#msg1170056 date=1283684609]
Why are fucking up a Jamie Carragher thread with all this Masher bollocks
The whining little twat has got what he wanted, fuck him and fuck Barca
[/quote]
Listen here, if you want the Jamie Carragher thread, off to the Lucas discussion thread with you.
Why are fucking up a Jamie Carragher thread with all this Masher bollocks
The whining little twat has got what he wanted, fuck him and fuck Barca
[/quote]
Listen here, if you want the Jamie Carragher thread, off to the Lucas discussion thread with you.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41756.msg1170057#msg1170057 date=1283684727]
Ross, that isn't what the "Echo" reported. According to them Masher wanted to continue training with the team and it was Roy who said no when he decided Masher wasn't in the right frame of mind.
[/quote]
Nobody in their right mind would have picked Lucas ahead of Mascherano if Mascherano was avaliable.
Roys comments on Sky prior to the game gave the game away.
Ross, that isn't what the "Echo" reported. According to them Masher wanted to continue training with the team and it was Roy who said no when he decided Masher wasn't in the right frame of mind.
[/quote]
Nobody in their right mind would have picked Lucas ahead of Mascherano if Mascherano was avaliable.
Roys comments on Sky prior to the game gave the game away.
So we have one version (from the player) both independently attested and consistent all the way through, against another (from the manager) which has wobbled about like a fart in a bottle.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41756.msg1170062#msg1170062 date=1283685365]
So we have one version (from the player) both independently attested and consistent all the way through, against another (from the manager) which has wobbled about like a fart in a bottle.
[/quote]
The team lineup was out the day before the game, Mascherano was picked. The day of the game that changed.
The world and its mother knows why it changed, but if you want to believe something else go right ahead.
So we have one version (from the player) both independently attested and consistent all the way through, against another (from the manager) which has wobbled about like a fart in a bottle.
[/quote]
The team lineup was out the day before the game, Mascherano was picked. The day of the game that changed.
The world and its mother knows why it changed, but if you want to believe something else go right ahead.
That presumably applies to the "Echo" as well then.
Neither they nor I would imagine for a moment that Masher was busting a gut to play, but the accusation against him is that he flat out refused. That accusation is unproven at best.
Neither they nor I would imagine for a moment that Masher was busting a gut to play, but the accusation against him is that he flat out refused. That accusation is unproven at best.
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41756.msg1170033#msg1170033 date=1283678351]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41756.msg1170023#msg1170023 date=1283675787]
How did masher shaft us? He waited a year to be close to his family...that is more than most of you on this forum would agree for, if it was a personal issue.
[/quote]
For some of us, it actually was a personal issue.
I lost out on a few months pay because I didnt want to suddenly leave them in the lurch when I left for Norwich in July.
Seeing some comments on here, I guess it was pretty stupid of me since it's not really shafting.
The fact is, he wanted out and didnt care how he got it.
[/quote]
I don't want to compare it to your personal problem mate. But i just wanted to show that Masher paid his dues by agreeing to stay one more year and giving 100% till about a week before he left.
I don't know whether it was Masher's family issue or his personal wish. He is on record stating that he has wanted to leave for over a year. If i wanted to leave my office a year back and was told to wait a year. I would be fucking peeved. Then after a year, if i found out that my employers were looking to extend my stay by a year, i would go to court. I know this though, asking someone to put his personal life on hold for two years is a bit rich. From your post i get the feeling that because you forfeited your notice period pay you think it is justifiable to ask Masher to put his personal life on hold for two years?
It seems a different set of morals apply, if the pay grade is ridiculously high as it is for footballers.
This, i agree with. We should have sold him when he openly stated he wanted out. Having called on a favor and extending stay for a year - we have no reason to complain. We were desperate, yes, but why is he accountable for our desperation? We got the transfer fee paid to him + the value of the rest of his contract value in terms of wages and some more from Barca....it's not as if he went on a free.
We could have got a couple of millions for him - but we got ourselves into a position where we had no leg to stand on. So there is really no reason to blame Masher here.
He asked the club to sell him - what is the big problem here? I don't really see it.
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41756.msg1170023#msg1170023 date=1283675787]
How did masher shaft us? He waited a year to be close to his family...that is more than most of you on this forum would agree for, if it was a personal issue.
[/quote]
For some of us, it actually was a personal issue.
I lost out on a few months pay because I didnt want to suddenly leave them in the lurch when I left for Norwich in July.
Seeing some comments on here, I guess it was pretty stupid of me since it's not really shafting.
The fact is, he wanted out and didnt care how he got it.
[/quote]
I don't want to compare it to your personal problem mate. But i just wanted to show that Masher paid his dues by agreeing to stay one more year and giving 100% till about a week before he left.
I don't know whether it was Masher's family issue or his personal wish. He is on record stating that he has wanted to leave for over a year. If i wanted to leave my office a year back and was told to wait a year. I would be fucking peeved. Then after a year, if i found out that my employers were looking to extend my stay by a year, i would go to court. I know this though, asking someone to put his personal life on hold for two years is a bit rich. From your post i get the feeling that because you forfeited your notice period pay you think it is justifiable to ask Masher to put his personal life on hold for two years?
It seems a different set of morals apply, if the pay grade is ridiculously high as it is for footballers.
This, i agree with. We should have sold him when he openly stated he wanted out. Having called on a favor and extending stay for a year - we have no reason to complain. We were desperate, yes, but why is he accountable for our desperation? We got the transfer fee paid to him + the value of the rest of his contract value in terms of wages and some more from Barca....it's not as if he went on a free.
We could have got a couple of millions for him - but we got ourselves into a position where we had no leg to stand on. So there is really no reason to blame Masher here.
He asked the club to sell him - what is the big problem here? I don't really see it.
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41756.msg1170075#msg1170075 date=1283687083]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41756.msg1170033#msg1170033 date=1283678351]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41756.msg1170023#msg1170023 date=1283675787]
How did masher shaft us? He waited a year to be close to his family...that is more than most of you on this forum would agree for, if it was a personal issue.
[/quote]
For some of us, it actually was a personal issue.
I lost out on a few months pay because I didnt want to suddenly leave them in the lurch when I left for Norwich in July.
Seeing some comments on here, I guess it was pretty stupid of me since it's not really shafting.
The fact is, he wanted out and didnt care how he got it.
[/quote]
I don't want to compare it to your personal problem mate. But i just wanted to show that Masher paid his dues by agreeing to stay one more year and giving 100% till about a week before he left.
I don't know whether it was Masher's family issue or his personal wish. He is on record stating that he has wanted to leave for over a year. If i wanted to leave my office a year back and was told to wait a year. I would be fucking peeved. Then after a year, if i found out that my employers were looking to extend my stay by a year, i would go to court. I know this though, asking someone to put his personal life on hold for two years is a bit rich. From your post i get the feeling that because you forfeited your notice period pay you think it is justifiable to ask Masher to put his personal life on hold for two years?
It seems a different set of morals apply, if the pay grade is ridiculously high as it is for footballers.
This, i agree with. We should have sold him when he openly stated he wanted out. Having called on a favor and extending stay for a year - we have no reason to complain. We were desperate, yes, but why is he accountable for our desperation? We got the transfer fee paid to him + the value of the rest of his contract value in terms of wages and some more from Barca....it's not as if he went on a free.
We could have got a couple of millions for him - but we got ourselves into a position where we had no leg to stand on. So there is really no reason to blame Masher here.
He asked the club to sell him - what is the big problem here? I don't really see it.
[/quote]
Your entire argument is based on the premise that Mascherano did us a favor by staying with us for every year. How did he do us a favor. He was on contract. We paid him wages every week.
If he had such big issues why did he a sign a four year contract. He could have asked for a one year rolling contract. Of course his pay would have been less but family is more important right. Or he could have sat on the West Ham bench and not accepted our offer. Again family would have been happier in London, right.
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41756.msg1170033#msg1170033 date=1283678351]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41756.msg1170023#msg1170023 date=1283675787]
How did masher shaft us? He waited a year to be close to his family...that is more than most of you on this forum would agree for, if it was a personal issue.
[/quote]
For some of us, it actually was a personal issue.
I lost out on a few months pay because I didnt want to suddenly leave them in the lurch when I left for Norwich in July.
Seeing some comments on here, I guess it was pretty stupid of me since it's not really shafting.
The fact is, he wanted out and didnt care how he got it.
[/quote]
I don't want to compare it to your personal problem mate. But i just wanted to show that Masher paid his dues by agreeing to stay one more year and giving 100% till about a week before he left.
I don't know whether it was Masher's family issue or his personal wish. He is on record stating that he has wanted to leave for over a year. If i wanted to leave my office a year back and was told to wait a year. I would be fucking peeved. Then after a year, if i found out that my employers were looking to extend my stay by a year, i would go to court. I know this though, asking someone to put his personal life on hold for two years is a bit rich. From your post i get the feeling that because you forfeited your notice period pay you think it is justifiable to ask Masher to put his personal life on hold for two years?
It seems a different set of morals apply, if the pay grade is ridiculously high as it is for footballers.
This, i agree with. We should have sold him when he openly stated he wanted out. Having called on a favor and extending stay for a year - we have no reason to complain. We were desperate, yes, but why is he accountable for our desperation? We got the transfer fee paid to him + the value of the rest of his contract value in terms of wages and some more from Barca....it's not as if he went on a free.
We could have got a couple of millions for him - but we got ourselves into a position where we had no leg to stand on. So there is really no reason to blame Masher here.
He asked the club to sell him - what is the big problem here? I don't really see it.
[/quote]
Your entire argument is based on the premise that Mascherano did us a favor by staying with us for every year. How did he do us a favor. He was on contract. We paid him wages every week.
If he had such big issues why did he a sign a four year contract. He could have asked for a one year rolling contract. Of course his pay would have been less but family is more important right. Or he could have sat on the West Ham bench and not accepted our offer. Again family would have been happier in London, right.
[quote author=peekay link=topic=41756.msg1170101#msg1170101 date=1283693717]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41756.msg1170075#msg1170075 date=1283687083]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41756.msg1170033#msg1170033 date=1283678351]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41756.msg1170023#msg1170023 date=1283675787]
How did masher shaft us? He waited a year to be close to his family...that is more than most of you on this forum would agree for, if it was a personal issue.
[/quote]
For some of us, it actually was a personal issue.
I lost out on a few months pay because I didnt want to suddenly leave them in the lurch when I left for Norwich in July.
Seeing some comments on here, I guess it was pretty stupid of me since it's not really shafting.
The fact is, he wanted out and didnt care how he got it.
[/quote]
I don't want to compare it to your personal problem mate. But i just wanted to show that Masher paid his dues by agreeing to stay one more year and giving 100% till about a week before he left.
I don't know whether it was Masher's family issue or his personal wish. He is on record stating that he has wanted to leave for over a year. If i wanted to leave my office a year back and was told to wait a year. I would be fucking peeved. Then after a year, if i found out that my employers were looking to extend my stay by a year, i would go to court. I know this though, asking someone to put his personal life on hold for two years is a bit rich. From your post i get the feeling that because you forfeited your notice period pay you think it is justifiable to ask Masher to put his personal life on hold for two years?
It seems a different set of morals apply, if the pay grade is ridiculously high as it is for footballers.
This, i agree with. We should have sold him when he openly stated he wanted out. Having called on a favor and extending stay for a year - we have no reason to complain. We were desperate, yes, but why is he accountable for our desperation? We got the transfer fee paid to him + the value of the rest of his contract value in terms of wages and some more from Barca....it's not as if he went on a free.
We could have got a couple of millions for him - but we got ourselves into a position where we had no leg to stand on. So there is really no reason to blame Masher here.
He asked the club to sell him - what is the big problem here? I don't really see it.
[/quote]
Your entire argument is based on the premise that Mascherano did us a favor by staying with us for every year. How did he do us a favor. He was on contract. We paid him wages every week.
If he had such big issues why did he a sign a four year contract. He could have asked for a one year rolling contract. Of course his pay would have been less but family is more important right. Or he could have sat on the West Ham bench and not accepted our offer. Again family would have been happier in London, right.
[/quote]
No it isn't.
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41756.msg1170075#msg1170075 date=1283687083]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41756.msg1170033#msg1170033 date=1283678351]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41756.msg1170023#msg1170023 date=1283675787]
How did masher shaft us? He waited a year to be close to his family...that is more than most of you on this forum would agree for, if it was a personal issue.
[/quote]
For some of us, it actually was a personal issue.
I lost out on a few months pay because I didnt want to suddenly leave them in the lurch when I left for Norwich in July.
Seeing some comments on here, I guess it was pretty stupid of me since it's not really shafting.
The fact is, he wanted out and didnt care how he got it.
[/quote]
I don't want to compare it to your personal problem mate. But i just wanted to show that Masher paid his dues by agreeing to stay one more year and giving 100% till about a week before he left.
I don't know whether it was Masher's family issue or his personal wish. He is on record stating that he has wanted to leave for over a year. If i wanted to leave my office a year back and was told to wait a year. I would be fucking peeved. Then after a year, if i found out that my employers were looking to extend my stay by a year, i would go to court. I know this though, asking someone to put his personal life on hold for two years is a bit rich. From your post i get the feeling that because you forfeited your notice period pay you think it is justifiable to ask Masher to put his personal life on hold for two years?
It seems a different set of morals apply, if the pay grade is ridiculously high as it is for footballers.
This, i agree with. We should have sold him when he openly stated he wanted out. Having called on a favor and extending stay for a year - we have no reason to complain. We were desperate, yes, but why is he accountable for our desperation? We got the transfer fee paid to him + the value of the rest of his contract value in terms of wages and some more from Barca....it's not as if he went on a free.
We could have got a couple of millions for him - but we got ourselves into a position where we had no leg to stand on. So there is really no reason to blame Masher here.
He asked the club to sell him - what is the big problem here? I don't really see it.
[/quote]
Your entire argument is based on the premise that Mascherano did us a favor by staying with us for every year. How did he do us a favor. He was on contract. We paid him wages every week.
If he had such big issues why did he a sign a four year contract. He could have asked for a one year rolling contract. Of course his pay would have been less but family is more important right. Or he could have sat on the West Ham bench and not accepted our offer. Again family would have been happier in London, right.
[/quote]
No it isn't.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41756.msg1170109#msg1170109 date=1283696329]
It's not very classy to single out Souness as the reason for our failings over the last twenty years. Just saying.
[/quote]
yeah, that thought had occurred to me too. carra's a true club legend, but i'm not exactly sure his position's unimpeachable in terms of class and dignity. wasn't there that incident at a club party in his early days, as well as a more general wildness in his early days?
still, he was only young.
It's not very classy to single out Souness as the reason for our failings over the last twenty years. Just saying.
[/quote]
yeah, that thought had occurred to me too. carra's a true club legend, but i'm not exactly sure his position's unimpeachable in terms of class and dignity. wasn't there that incident at a club party in his early days, as well as a more general wildness in his early days?
still, he was only young.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41756.msg1170107#msg1170107 date=1283695710]
[quote author=peekay link=topic=41756.msg1170101#msg1170101 date=1283693717]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41756.msg1170075#msg1170075 date=1283687083]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41756.msg1170033#msg1170033 date=1283678351]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41756.msg1170023#msg1170023 date=1283675787]
How did masher shaft us? He waited a year to be close to his family...that is more than most of you on this forum would agree for, if it was a personal issue.
[/quote]
For some of us, it actually was a personal issue.
I lost out on a few months pay because I didnt want to suddenly leave them in the lurch when I left for Norwich in July.
Seeing some comments on here, I guess it was pretty stupid of me since it's not really shafting.
The fact is, he wanted out and didnt care how he got it.
[/quote]
I don't want to compare it to your personal problem mate. But i just wanted to show that Masher paid his dues by agreeing to stay one more year and giving 100% till about a week before he left.
I don't know whether it was Masher's family issue or his personal wish. He is on record stating that he has wanted to leave for over a year. If i wanted to leave my office a year back and was told to wait a year. I would be fucking peeved. Then after a year, if i found out that my employers were looking to extend my stay by a year, i would go to court. I know this though, asking someone to put his personal life on hold for two years is a bit rich. From your post i get the feeling that because you forfeited your notice period pay you think it is justifiable to ask Masher to put his personal life on hold for two years?
It seems a different set of morals apply, if the pay grade is ridiculously high as it is for footballers.
This, i agree with. We should have sold him when he openly stated he wanted out. Having called on a favor and extending stay for a year - we have no reason to complain. We were desperate, yes, but why is he accountable for our desperation? We got the transfer fee paid to him + the value of the rest of his contract value in terms of wages and some more from Barca....it's not as if he went on a free.
We could have got a couple of millions for him - but we got ourselves into a position where we had no leg to stand on. So there is really no reason to blame Masher here.
He asked the club to sell him - what is the big problem here? I don't really see it.
[/quote]
Your entire argument is based on the premise that Mascherano did us a favor by staying with us for every year. How did he do us a favor. He was on contract. We paid him wages every week.
If he had such big issues why did he a sign a four year contract. He could have asked for a one year rolling contract. Of course his pay would have been less but family is more important right. Or he could have sat on the West Ham bench and not accepted our offer. Again family would have been happier in London, right.
[/quote]
No it isn't.
[/quote]
[quote author=peekay link=topic=41756.msg1170101#msg1170101 date=1283693717]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41756.msg1170075#msg1170075 date=1283687083]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41756.msg1170033#msg1170033 date=1283678351]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=41756.msg1170023#msg1170023 date=1283675787]
How did masher shaft us? He waited a year to be close to his family...that is more than most of you on this forum would agree for, if it was a personal issue.
[/quote]
For some of us, it actually was a personal issue.
I lost out on a few months pay because I didnt want to suddenly leave them in the lurch when I left for Norwich in July.
Seeing some comments on here, I guess it was pretty stupid of me since it's not really shafting.
The fact is, he wanted out and didnt care how he got it.
[/quote]
I don't want to compare it to your personal problem mate. But i just wanted to show that Masher paid his dues by agreeing to stay one more year and giving 100% till about a week before he left.
I don't know whether it was Masher's family issue or his personal wish. He is on record stating that he has wanted to leave for over a year. If i wanted to leave my office a year back and was told to wait a year. I would be fucking peeved. Then after a year, if i found out that my employers were looking to extend my stay by a year, i would go to court. I know this though, asking someone to put his personal life on hold for two years is a bit rich. From your post i get the feeling that because you forfeited your notice period pay you think it is justifiable to ask Masher to put his personal life on hold for two years?
It seems a different set of morals apply, if the pay grade is ridiculously high as it is for footballers.
This, i agree with. We should have sold him when he openly stated he wanted out. Having called on a favor and extending stay for a year - we have no reason to complain. We were desperate, yes, but why is he accountable for our desperation? We got the transfer fee paid to him + the value of the rest of his contract value in terms of wages and some more from Barca....it's not as if he went on a free.
We could have got a couple of millions for him - but we got ourselves into a position where we had no leg to stand on. So there is really no reason to blame Masher here.
He asked the club to sell him - what is the big problem here? I don't really see it.
[/quote]
Your entire argument is based on the premise that Mascherano did us a favor by staying with us for every year. How did he do us a favor. He was on contract. We paid him wages every week.
If he had such big issues why did he a sign a four year contract. He could have asked for a one year rolling contract. Of course his pay would have been less but family is more important right. Or he could have sat on the West Ham bench and not accepted our offer. Again family would have been happier in London, right.
[/quote]
No it isn't.
[/quote]
The favour kingjulian's talking about is Masher staying the extra year, not every year. I rate you as a poster, but I'm afraid you've got this one round your neck.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=41756.msg1170132#msg1170132 date=1283702422]
The favour kingjulian's talking about is Masher staying the extra year, not every year. I rate you as a poster, but I'm afraid you've got this one round your neck.
[/quote]
Sorry that was a mistake on my part. I mean to state "Your entire argument is based on the premise that Mascherano did us a favor by staying with us for an extra year." Instead of every.
Having said that, I read the entire thread and I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I think that when you are a footballer or a star, it is a different type of working environment. For normal people like us, I 100% support kingjulian's viewpoint about putting personal life on hold for two years. But I think that we cannot extrapolate it to that of footballers. We can argue day and night about our views but I think I will stick to my beliefs and you will stick to yours.
The favour kingjulian's talking about is Masher staying the extra year, not every year. I rate you as a poster, but I'm afraid you've got this one round your neck.
[/quote]
Sorry that was a mistake on my part. I mean to state "Your entire argument is based on the premise that Mascherano did us a favor by staying with us for an extra year." Instead of every.
Having said that, I read the entire thread and I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I think that when you are a footballer or a star, it is a different type of working environment. For normal people like us, I 100% support kingjulian's viewpoint about putting personal life on hold for two years. But I think that we cannot extrapolate it to that of footballers. We can argue day and night about our views but I think I will stick to my beliefs and you will stick to yours.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41756.msg1170147#msg1170147 date=1283706660]
It's complete an utter nonsense to suggest he was doing us a favour by staying "an extra year" when he was already contracted for three more.
[/quote]
He pushed through a move this year despite having two years left on his contract. Why didn't he do that last year?
It's complete an utter nonsense to suggest he was doing us a favour by staying "an extra year" when he was already contracted for three more.
[/quote]
He pushed through a move this year despite having two years left on his contract. Why didn't he do that last year?
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41756.msg1170147#msg1170147 date=1283706660]
It's complete an utter nonsense to suggest he was doing us a favour by staying "an extra year" when he was already contracted for three more.
[/quote]
It's pointless arguing the toss Ross. His 'fans' will dress it up however they want. What credence are people giving the Echo anyway? The Echo say one thing, Roy (the club) says another so the Echo must be right.
He twatted about in the press all Summer about learning Italian, wanting to move, etc etc. No one has come out of this smelling of roses, but putting sympathy with Masher for 'staying a year' is just bollocks and missing the point entirely. Oh yeah, thanks for that, hope you enjoyed the wages too, it's not like we saved you from the *fucking* misery of sitting on the bench at a shit London club or anything.
It's complete an utter nonsense to suggest he was doing us a favour by staying "an extra year" when he was already contracted for three more.
[/quote]
It's pointless arguing the toss Ross. His 'fans' will dress it up however they want. What credence are people giving the Echo anyway? The Echo say one thing, Roy (the club) says another so the Echo must be right.
He twatted about in the press all Summer about learning Italian, wanting to move, etc etc. No one has come out of this smelling of roses, but putting sympathy with Masher for 'staying a year' is just bollocks and missing the point entirely. Oh yeah, thanks for that, hope you enjoyed the wages too, it's not like we saved you from the *fucking* misery of sitting on the bench at a shit London club or anything.
Some of us would say it's Masher's critics who are doing the "dressing up" in an attempt to justify their headlong rush to judgment on him; Roy's changed his tune as time's gone on, plus he has an axe to grind whereas the "Echo" doesn't; and Masher had plenty of other clubs interested in signing him when that idiot Pardew froze him out.
Where I do agree is that nobody comes out of this looking great. There was no need for Roy to stir things up with that "selfish" jibe - whether or not you agree with it - but Masher should have let it lie. I'm thinking we all should too.
Where I do agree is that nobody comes out of this looking great. There was no need for Roy to stir things up with that "selfish" jibe - whether or not you agree with it - but Masher should have let it lie. I'm thinking we all should too.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41756.msg1170147#msg1170147 date=1283706660]
It's complete an utter nonsense to suggest he was doing us a favour by staying "an extra year" when he was already contracted for three more.
[/quote]
In my last job, i had a contract for two years. But when an opportunity came across, i told them i wanted to leave and they told me i had to serve three month notice period including a months gardening leave. I left after doing that. No body said i was acting immorally. I did what was the accepted norm to break a contract. If after the three month they told me that i have to stay another 3 months...i would have asked them to go to hell. I doubt anyone on this forum would agree either. I have never seen or heard of a case like that in the corporate world.
If a person wants to leave a contract in between..... he leaves after the due compensation is met. There is no contract that is binding to the extent that you imply. The reason clubs get a transfer fee is to act as a compensation for breaking contract in-between. Once another club pays that acceptable compensation amount there is no reason for the player to stick around. Masher did....he stayed another year in spite of an offer from Barca, because our club requested him to do so. So that is pretty much a favor.
The double standards shown by some who argue this is appalling. Some want Owen to have been more assertive about his wish to play for Liverpool when he was at Madrid, and also think that he should have rejected an offer when Newcastle went for him because LFC would later swoop in and pay him and Madrid less to resurrect his career (there was no certainty of that happening either). Because he didn't do all of that, he is Judas. Now it's pretty much the opposite with Masher.
Lets face it, you (we) are never going to be happy if a good player in his prime were to leave LFC against the clubs' wish. I can identify with, and share that point of view. What i don't understand is the reasoning behind the level of hatred shown to turn around and call Masher/Owen a cunt and boo him.
All this vitriol directed at Masher because we lost out a couple of millions (because of our own mistakes) is rather petty. Is it really that hard to choose to remember them for all the good things they have done for us? Because there has been plenty of those when you look at these two players' performance for us.
It's complete an utter nonsense to suggest he was doing us a favour by staying "an extra year" when he was already contracted for three more.
[/quote]
In my last job, i had a contract for two years. But when an opportunity came across, i told them i wanted to leave and they told me i had to serve three month notice period including a months gardening leave. I left after doing that. No body said i was acting immorally. I did what was the accepted norm to break a contract. If after the three month they told me that i have to stay another 3 months...i would have asked them to go to hell. I doubt anyone on this forum would agree either. I have never seen or heard of a case like that in the corporate world.
If a person wants to leave a contract in between..... he leaves after the due compensation is met. There is no contract that is binding to the extent that you imply. The reason clubs get a transfer fee is to act as a compensation for breaking contract in-between. Once another club pays that acceptable compensation amount there is no reason for the player to stick around. Masher did....he stayed another year in spite of an offer from Barca, because our club requested him to do so. So that is pretty much a favor.
The double standards shown by some who argue this is appalling. Some want Owen to have been more assertive about his wish to play for Liverpool when he was at Madrid, and also think that he should have rejected an offer when Newcastle went for him because LFC would later swoop in and pay him and Madrid less to resurrect his career (there was no certainty of that happening either). Because he didn't do all of that, he is Judas. Now it's pretty much the opposite with Masher.
Lets face it, you (we) are never going to be happy if a good player in his prime were to leave LFC against the clubs' wish. I can identify with, and share that point of view. What i don't understand is the reasoning behind the level of hatred shown to turn around and call Masher/Owen a cunt and boo him.
All this vitriol directed at Masher because we lost out a couple of millions (because of our own mistakes) is rather petty. Is it really that hard to choose to remember them for all the good things they have done for us? Because there has been plenty of those when you look at these two players' performance for us.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41756.msg1170165#msg1170165 date=1283710146]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41756.msg1170147#msg1170147 date=1283706660]
It's complete an utter nonsense to suggest he was doing us a favour by staying "an extra year" when he was already contracted for three more.
[/quote]
It's pointless arguing the toss Ross. His 'fans' will dress it up however they want. What credence are people giving the Echo anyway? The Echo say one thing, Roy (the club) says another so the Echo must be right.
He twatted about in the press all Summer about learning Italian, wanting to move, etc etc. No one has come out of this smelling of roses, but putting sympathy with Masher for 'staying a year' is just bollocks and missing the point entirely. Oh yeah, thanks for that, hope you enjoyed the wages too, it's not like we saved you from the *fucking* misery of sitting on the bench at a shit London club or anything.
[/quote]
It's truly amazing.
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41756.msg1170147#msg1170147 date=1283706660]
It's complete an utter nonsense to suggest he was doing us a favour by staying "an extra year" when he was already contracted for three more.
[/quote]
It's pointless arguing the toss Ross. His 'fans' will dress it up however they want. What credence are people giving the Echo anyway? The Echo say one thing, Roy (the club) says another so the Echo must be right.
He twatted about in the press all Summer about learning Italian, wanting to move, etc etc. No one has come out of this smelling of roses, but putting sympathy with Masher for 'staying a year' is just bollocks and missing the point entirely. Oh yeah, thanks for that, hope you enjoyed the wages too, it's not like we saved you from the *fucking* misery of sitting on the bench at a shit London club or anything.
[/quote]
It's truly amazing.
it's crazy to suggest that masch did us a favour by staying last year, and comparing his situation to a normal working environment is completely pointless.
the fact is, liverpool did not want to sell him, and didn't have to, so therefore any decision to allow him to go is actually a 'favour' on the club's part. i don't know how anyone can think otherwise.
player's need to realise what their responsibilities are when they sign up for the obscne rewards detailed in their contracts.
the fact is, liverpool did not want to sell him, and didn't have to, so therefore any decision to allow him to go is actually a 'favour' on the club's part. i don't know how anyone can think otherwise.
player's need to realise what their responsibilities are when they sign up for the obscne rewards detailed in their contracts.
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=41756.msg1170175#msg1170175 date=1283711490]
player's need to realise what their responsibilities are when they sign up for the obscne rewards detailed in their contracts.
[/quote]
And when a club doesn't want a player anymore who still has a long contract left?
Should they honour their commitment to that player or just do their best to hawk him to any buyer willing to pay their price?
player's need to realise what their responsibilities are when they sign up for the obscne rewards detailed in their contracts.
[/quote]
And when a club doesn't want a player anymore who still has a long contract left?
Should they honour their commitment to that player or just do their best to hawk him to any buyer willing to pay their price?
Here's what happened:
He wanted to leave last year, but the Alonso fuck-up meant that Benitez couldn't allow it for football *and* professional reasons, but there was an agreement that, should a suitable offer arrive this summer he could go.
Problem was, that 'agreement' was so widely known, that every suitor knew Masher was desperate to leave.
Which is why every journo in the world knew about his fucking wife, staring at Insua, missing the food, language and latin culture of, well, anywhere but Liverpool. And 'learning Italian'. The fucking bellend.
Then the obvious happened; the 'agreement' was obviously dependent on someone like Barca or Inter offering a fair fucking price for a 25m-rated player under contract. But that didn't happen. Obviously. So, with the window about to close, Masher made it very fucking clear to Granddad that he wanted to leave, and couldn't really be trusted to play any more games for Liverpool. How he couched that to Hodge is immaterial, he fucking did it, regardless of his Orwellian post-transfer comments.
So he can go and fuck himself, safe in the knowledge that we are also complicit
Now lock the thread.
He wanted to leave last year, but the Alonso fuck-up meant that Benitez couldn't allow it for football *and* professional reasons, but there was an agreement that, should a suitable offer arrive this summer he could go.
Problem was, that 'agreement' was so widely known, that every suitor knew Masher was desperate to leave.
Which is why every journo in the world knew about his fucking wife, staring at Insua, missing the food, language and latin culture of, well, anywhere but Liverpool. And 'learning Italian'. The fucking bellend.
Then the obvious happened; the 'agreement' was obviously dependent on someone like Barca or Inter offering a fair fucking price for a 25m-rated player under contract. But that didn't happen. Obviously. So, with the window about to close, Masher made it very fucking clear to Granddad that he wanted to leave, and couldn't really be trusted to play any more games for Liverpool. How he couched that to Hodge is immaterial, he fucking did it, regardless of his Orwellian post-transfer comments.
So he can go and fuck himself, safe in the knowledge that we are also complicit
Now lock the thread.
[quote author=keniget link=topic=41756.msg1170179#msg1170179 date=1283711840]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=41756.msg1170175#msg1170175 date=1283711490]
player's need to realise what their responsibilities are when they sign up for the obscne rewards detailed in their contracts.
[/quote]
And when a club doesn't want a player anymore who still has a long contract left?
Should they honour their commitment to that player or just do their best to hawk him to any buyer willing to pay their price?
[/quote]
but in that scenario i can't see how a player is treated unfairly. they're given a choice, even in the extreme:
1. sit out the remainder of contract and collect excellent wages for no work
2. go to another club and try to resurrect career there
what point are you trying to make? it's better than being sacked isn't it, which is the consequence most of us face if we underperform in our job.
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=41756.msg1170175#msg1170175 date=1283711490]
player's need to realise what their responsibilities are when they sign up for the obscne rewards detailed in their contracts.
[/quote]
And when a club doesn't want a player anymore who still has a long contract left?
Should they honour their commitment to that player or just do their best to hawk him to any buyer willing to pay their price?
[/quote]
but in that scenario i can't see how a player is treated unfairly. they're given a choice, even in the extreme:
1. sit out the remainder of contract and collect excellent wages for no work
2. go to another club and try to resurrect career there
what point are you trying to make? it's better than being sacked isn't it, which is the consequence most of us face if we underperform in our job.
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=41756.msg1170175#msg1170175 date=1283711490]
it's crazy to suggest that masch did us a favour by staying last year, and comparing his situation to a normal working environment is completely pointless.
the fact is, liverpool did not want to sell him, and didn't have to, so therefore any decision to allow him to go is actually a 'favour' on the club's part. i don't know how anyone can think otherwise.
player's need to realise what their responsibilities are when they sign up for the obscne rewards detailed in their contracts.
[/quote]
So you think it is alright to keep a person playing for a club against his wish because he makes 40,000 pounds a week as opposed to 1000/2000 pounds a week the average employee out there makes?
So Contract law has distinctions based on the face value of contract? Beyond what is reasonable the player can move to file a case, and everybody will end up losing in that scenario. That is the reason clubs usually agree to do a deal. Give me one example of a player who has wanted to move away from a club year after year but has been forced to serve out his contract. I will concede this point to you....
Majority of the time, when players want to leave a club for personal reason they leave, and in exceptional cases some players wait out a year or a bit more...and that is mostly out of respect to the club and fans...see Barry the year before last.
it's crazy to suggest that masch did us a favour by staying last year, and comparing his situation to a normal working environment is completely pointless.
the fact is, liverpool did not want to sell him, and didn't have to, so therefore any decision to allow him to go is actually a 'favour' on the club's part. i don't know how anyone can think otherwise.
player's need to realise what their responsibilities are when they sign up for the obscne rewards detailed in their contracts.
[/quote]
So you think it is alright to keep a person playing for a club against his wish because he makes 40,000 pounds a week as opposed to 1000/2000 pounds a week the average employee out there makes?
So Contract law has distinctions based on the face value of contract? Beyond what is reasonable the player can move to file a case, and everybody will end up losing in that scenario. That is the reason clubs usually agree to do a deal. Give me one example of a player who has wanted to move away from a club year after year but has been forced to serve out his contract. I will concede this point to you....
Majority of the time, when players want to leave a club for personal reason they leave, and in exceptional cases some players wait out a year or a bit more...and that is mostly out of respect to the club and fans...see Barry the year before last.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41756.msg1170180#msg1170180 date=1283711999]
Here's what happened:
He wanted to leave last year, but the Alonso fuck-up meant that Benitez couldn't allow it for football *and* professional reasons, but there was an agreement that, should a suitable offer arrive this summer he could go.
Problem was, that 'agreement' was so widely known, that every suitor knew Masher was desperate to leave.
Which is why every journo in the world knew about his fucking wife, staring at Insua, missing the food, language and latin culture of, well, anywhere but Liverpool. And 'learning Italian'. The fucking bellend.
Then the obvious happened; the 'agreement' was obviously dependent on someone like Barca or Inter offering a fair fucking price for a 25m-rated player under contract. But that didn't happen. Obviously. So, with the window about to close, Masher made it very fucking clear to Granddad that he wanted to leave, and couldn't really be trusted to play any more games for Liverpool. How he couched that to Hodge is immaterial, he fucking did it, regardless of his Orwellian post-transfer comments.
So he can go and fuck himself, safe in the knowledge that we are also complicit
Now lock the thread.
[/quote]
I agree with everything apart from the last sentence. I'd rather watch a girly internet fight.
Here's what happened:
He wanted to leave last year, but the Alonso fuck-up meant that Benitez couldn't allow it for football *and* professional reasons, but there was an agreement that, should a suitable offer arrive this summer he could go.
Problem was, that 'agreement' was so widely known, that every suitor knew Masher was desperate to leave.
Which is why every journo in the world knew about his fucking wife, staring at Insua, missing the food, language and latin culture of, well, anywhere but Liverpool. And 'learning Italian'. The fucking bellend.
Then the obvious happened; the 'agreement' was obviously dependent on someone like Barca or Inter offering a fair fucking price for a 25m-rated player under contract. But that didn't happen. Obviously. So, with the window about to close, Masher made it very fucking clear to Granddad that he wanted to leave, and couldn't really be trusted to play any more games for Liverpool. How he couched that to Hodge is immaterial, he fucking did it, regardless of his Orwellian post-transfer comments.
So he can go and fuck himself, safe in the knowledge that we are also complicit
Now lock the thread.
[/quote]
I agree with everything apart from the last sentence. I'd rather watch a girly internet fight.
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=41756.msg1170184#msg1170184 date=1283712269]
but in that scenario i can't see how a player is treated unfairly. they're given a choice, even in the extreme:
[/quote]
Well, the club had a choice as well. They could've held onto Masher and refused him a move.
but in that scenario i can't see how a player is treated unfairly. they're given a choice, even in the extreme:
[/quote]
Well, the club had a choice as well. They could've held onto Masher and refused him a move.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=41756.msg1170180#msg1170180 date=1283711999]
Here's what happened:
He wanted to leave last year, but the Alonso fuck-up meant that Benitez couldn't allow it for football *and* professional reasons, but there was an agreement that, should a suitable offer arrive this summer he could go.
Problem was, that 'agreement' was so widely known, that every suitor knew Masher was desperate to leave.
Which is why every journo in the world knew about his fucking wife, staring at Insua, missing the food, language and latin culture of, well, anywhere but Liverpool. And 'learning Italian'. The fucking bellend.
Then the obvious happened; the 'agreement' was obviously dependent on someone like Barca or Inter offering a fair fucking price for a 25m-rated player under contract. But that didn't happen. Obviously. So, with the window about to close, Masher made it very fucking clear to Granddad that he wanted to leave, and couldn't really be trusted to play any more games for Liverpool. How he couched that to Hodge is immaterial, he fucking did it, regardless of his Orwellian post-transfer comments.
So he can go and fuck himself, safe in the knowledge that we are also complicit
Now lock the thread.
[/quote]
I think i can agree with that. I don't like the way the whole thing ended. But everyone has had a role to play in how this has turned out, and Masher doesn't deserve to be booed/called a cunt considering the heart he has shown for the club previously.
Here's what happened:
He wanted to leave last year, but the Alonso fuck-up meant that Benitez couldn't allow it for football *and* professional reasons, but there was an agreement that, should a suitable offer arrive this summer he could go.
Problem was, that 'agreement' was so widely known, that every suitor knew Masher was desperate to leave.
Which is why every journo in the world knew about his fucking wife, staring at Insua, missing the food, language and latin culture of, well, anywhere but Liverpool. And 'learning Italian'. The fucking bellend.
Then the obvious happened; the 'agreement' was obviously dependent on someone like Barca or Inter offering a fair fucking price for a 25m-rated player under contract. But that didn't happen. Obviously. So, with the window about to close, Masher made it very fucking clear to Granddad that he wanted to leave, and couldn't really be trusted to play any more games for Liverpool. How he couched that to Hodge is immaterial, he fucking did it, regardless of his Orwellian post-transfer comments.
So he can go and fuck himself, safe in the knowledge that we are also complicit
Now lock the thread.
[/quote]
I think i can agree with that. I don't like the way the whole thing ended. But everyone has had a role to play in how this has turned out, and Masher doesn't deserve to be booed/called a cunt considering the heart he has shown for the club previously.
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