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Chinese "Devil Virus" - anyone worried?

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StevieM said:
I forgot - Amazon have been at the forefront of providing PPE for their workforce as well as testing all employees regularly.

I’m sure they’ve been using their logistic capabilities to ensure PPE & testing kits gets to the people who need them most - putting Governments and public administrators to shame.

I’m sure they haven’t been firing staff for complaining about the lack of PPE or anything.

I mean if they aren’t - we can successfully sue them as they won’t lie about things and will definitely end up paying out gazillions when found guilty - then we can just use eBay instead - double whammy.
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Amazon staff aren't working at the bedside of coronavirus patients. But they can sue anyway using any number of laws. Amazon will no doubt lie and present a version of facts that comply with the law. Guess what? The worker can present alternative facts and then prove them by putting evidence before the judge or jury. I repeat, the worker cannot do the same in administrative law. So despite all your hysteria about big evil Amazon, they are nowhere near as protected as public servants.

The way Amazon protect themselves is by "sponsoring" government officials and getting regulations changed in their favour. I presume those are the regulations you hold up as essential worker protections and Big D is an evil capitalist by revoking them?
 
It amazes me. The law is already there. If the employer overworks you, you can sue them, and you present evidence to prove negligence. If the law doesn't cover your case, then you make new case law. You get to argue it on the evidence and substantive facts

Having an EU regulation stipulating what employers must do is straight up designed to fuck the workers and revoke their legal rights. Now evidence goes out the window. Instead the employer just needs to show they ticked the box saying they followed the regs. In the unheard of event that the worker suffered, they will "change the form" to prevent it in future. That's what doctors and nurses are up against when they sue under administrative law.

Trust me. Once this is over and an inquiry happens, the outcome will be an extra box on the procurement form the NHS fills out to mark that these are
emergency/urgent supplies. Yippee.
 
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dantes said:
Amazon staff aren't working at the bedside of coronavirus patients. But they can sue anyway using any number of laws. Amazon will no doubt lie and present a version of facts that comply with the law. Guess what? The worker can present alternative facts and then prove them by putting evidence before the judge or jury. I repeat, the worker cannot do the same in administrative law. So despite all your hysteria about big evil Amazon, they are nowhere near as protected as public servants.

The way Amazon protect themselves is by "sponsoring" government officials and getting regulations changed in their favour. I presume those are the regulations you hold up as essential worker protections and Big D is an evil capitalist by revoking them?
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A worker can sue their boss in exactly the same way whether they are public or private.
 
Woland said:
What's that catchphrase again? Don't bring Wikipedia to a jurisprudence fight
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Ok look, when a hospital doesn't provide PPE to its staff it has (a) breached it's employment contract by failing in it's duty of care to that employee, and (b) broken the god damn fucking law regardless of the employee.

If the employee sues them, they're shown all their lovely regulatory protections which send them down the (a) road, and they end up with a pittance, and the hospital laughs. If they try to go down the (b) road they are cock blocked by administrative law, and can't ask the court to make findings of fact because the hospital is a public body. So under none of these situations does the hospital ever have to be held accountable for breaking the god damn law.

On the other hand, if the hospital were living in the domain of private law, and the employee was not brainwashed by the regulatory protections given to him by an employment tribunal, what that worker could do is gather evidence of (b), then sue his employer for (b). If this all happened in the US, he would make $50m for winning, instead of $50k.... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pfizer-whistleblower-idUSN021592920090903

Those sorts of figures are why companies like Pfizer and Amazon have to stay in line. You can never ever get that against a public body, even if they murdered you.
 
Woland said:
Just had a nurse from the royal on the phone hanging onto the edge of sanity saying she's heard we're making masks and they'll pay anything coz they've got fuck all and are still in binbags and their boss is telling them to improvise.

This is fucking insane
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I can't get my head round this.

Like are you literally telling me just 3d printing masks is a better solution than anyone in the entire government has come up with?

Doesn't this info need to be got out there with extreme fucking urgency?

Can we all chip in or what? It's mindblowing.
 
Daily Fail:

Hospitals in Sweden have stopped using the malaria drug chloroquine on coronavirus patients after reports it was causing blinding headaches and vision loss.
Doctors in the Vastra Gotaland region, 200miles west of Stockholm, are no longer administering the medication, touted as a 'miracle drug' by Donald Trump.
A number of patients at hospitals in the county reported suffering cramps, peripheral vision loss and migraines within days of being prescribed the tablets.
For one in 100 people, chloroquine can also cause the heart to beat too fast or slow, which can lead to a fatal heart attack.
Chloroquine - which has been prescribed for malaria since the 1940s - had been earmarked as a potential COVID-19 cure after showing promise in studies in China.
Doctors in Europe, the US and China have been given licence to trial the drug on seriously ill coronavirus patients.
But Britain has prevented clinicians from dishing out the drug until clinical trials are completed, citing concerns about its safety and efficacy.
Professor Anthony Gordon – a top critical care doctors in the UK – today said there was still 'no strong evidence' the drug could treat coronavirus.
 
Frogfish said:
Daily Fail:

Hospitals in Sweden have stopped using the malaria drug chloroquine on coronavirus patients after reports it was causing blinding headaches and vision loss.
Doctors in the Vastra Gotaland region, 200miles west of Stockholm, are no longer administering the medication, touted as a 'miracle drug' by Donald Trump.
A number of patients at hospitals in the county reported suffering cramps, peripheral vision loss and migraines within days of being prescribed the tablets.
For one in 100 people, chloroquine can also cause the heart to beat too fast or slow, which can lead to a fatal heart attack.
Chloroquine - which has been prescribed for malaria since the 1940s - had been earmarked as a potential COVID-19 cure after showing promise in studies in China.
Doctors in Europe, the US and China have been given licence to trial the drug on seriously ill coronavirus patients.
But Britain has prevented clinicians from dishing out the drug until clinical trials are completed, citing concerns about its safety and efficacy.
Professor Anthony Gordon – a top critical care doctors in the UK – today said there was still 'no strong evidence' the drug could treat coronavirus.
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So what I'm taking away from that news article is 'headline words words touted as a miracle drug by Donald Trump word words final words'.
 
Singapore are starting to suffer now thanks to their migrant worker population coming back from foreign countries who handled the pandemic the way lovren handles a football.
 
dantes said:
Ok look, when a hospital doesn't provide PPE to its staff it has (a) breached it's employment contract by failing in it's duty of care to that employee, and (b) broken the god damn fucking law regardless of the employee.

If the employee sues them, they're shown all their lovely regulatory protections which send them down the (a) road, and they end up with a pittance, and the hospital laughs. If they try to go down the (b) road they are cock blocked by administrative law, and can't ask the court to make findings of fact because the hospital is a public body. So under none of these situations does the hospital ever have to be held accountable for breaking the god damn law.

On the other hand, if the hospital were living in the domain of private law, and the employee was not brainwashed by the regulatory protections given to him by an employment tribunal, what that worker could do is gather evidence of (b), then sue his employer for (b). If this all happened in the US, he would make $50m for winning, instead of $50k.... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pfizer-whistleblower-idUSN021592920090903

Those sorts of figures are why companies like Pfizer and Amazon have to stay in line. You can never ever get that against a public body, even if they murdered you.
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https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/17/nhs-...puter-skills-wins-200000-in-damages-11171291/

Look at the Employment Tribunal decisions:
https://www.gov.uk/employment-tribunal-decisions

You'll see both public and private parties involved, because that's the mechanism for all employment disputes.
 
FoxForceFive said:
Read that this morning, it's a sobering read.

The amount of replies simply saying that population density is different so it's should be disregarded, without taking into account Singapore & Germany, is staggering.
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I frequently see people using Singapore as the beacon of light, despite the fact they don't even have a lockdown and didn't even have serious precautions in place until well after the outbreak was established (I'm sure I've posted their Timeline in this thread before).

The fact Singapore has an average temperature, year-round, of 31-32C would, I'd have good money on it, something to do with it. Look at Thailand, with their 0.5 deaths per million, they are at half that of Singapore's 1 per million, yet Thailand's first infection was just 2 days after China's and their diligence basic at best.

Even India is only at 0.2 per million (of course testing is an issue in all 3rd world countries but the amount of deaths is still virtually statistically insignificant). In fact there isn't a single warm weather country in the world which has a deaths per million over 6 (even that nutter in charge of Brazil has his country at 5 per million) whereas virtually all of the countries where the virus hit during Winter dominate the 'Top 20' countries with by far the worst records.
 
Russia another one with highly disputable figures. China had 99 new cases yesterday (nearly all from returning nationals) of which 51 came off ONE flight from Russia !
 
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dantes said:
Ok look, when a hospital doesn't provide PPE to its staff it has (a) breached it's employment contract by failing in it's duty of care to that employee, and (b) broken the god damn fucking law regardless of the employee.

If the employee sues them, they're shown all their lovely regulatory protections which send them down the (a) road, and they end up with a pittance, and the hospital laughs. If they try to go down the (b) road they are cock blocked by administrative law, and can't ask the court to make findings of fact because the hospital is a public body. So under none of these situations does the hospital ever have to be held accountable for breaking the god damn law.

On the other hand, if the hospital were living in the domain of private law, and the employee was not brainwashed by the regulatory protections given to him by an employment tribunal, what that worker could do is gather evidence of (b), then sue his employer for (b). If this all happened in the US, he would make $50m for winning, instead of $50k.... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pfizer-whistleblower-idUSN021592920090903

Those sorts of figures are why companies like Pfizer and Amazon have to stay in line. You can never ever get that against a public body, even if they murdered you.
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How many people can afford to sue these big companies? How many can afford the team of high priced lawyers that the like of Amazon can?
 
Aidan O' Neill said:
How many people can afford to sue these big companies? How many can afford the team of high priced lawyers that the like of Amazon can?
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There are two types of litigants - ones with loads of money and ones that have absolutely none. There are plenty of solicitors and barristers that work no foal no fee, all they need are clients with nothing to lose.


Anyone in the middle has too much to lose by litigating.
 
dantes said:
Singapore are starting to suffer now thanks to their migrant worker population coming back from foreign countries who handled the pandemic the way lovren handles a football.
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That's not really the case since everybody arriving in Singapore has to go into a 14 day quarantine. The issue is that foreign workers employed in low paying / manual labour jobs live in dormitories and that's where the infections are now blooming. Details on Worldometer site.
 
Aidan O' Neill said:
How many people can afford to sue these big companies? How many can afford the team of high priced lawyers that the like of Amazon can?
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You don’t need expensive lawyers. You just need to present your narrative and supporting evidence according to Dantes.
 
dantes said:
So what I'm taking away from that news article is 'headline words words touted as a miracle drug by Donald Trump word words final words'.
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Did you see his two hour ramble yesterday ? Going on about how this virus is a genius and how antibacterials are ineffective (who would have guessed, since they are designed to fight bacteria not viruses, against which they are useless, and guess what the coronavirus is? He's an orange haired imbecile.

 
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Rosco said:
There are two types of litigants - ones with loads of money and ones that have absolutely none. There are plenty of solicitors and barristers that work no foal no fee, all they need are clients with nothing to lose.


Anyone in the middle has too much to lose by litigating.
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I thought no win no fee was for people putting in a claim for tripping over a crack in the footpath?
 
It's very prevalent in that area, but plenty of other as well.

Basically any area where there's an insurer or a state body available to pay legal costs when they lose is one that will have a fair few no win no fee lawyers.
 
Rosco said:
It's very prevalent in that area, but plenty of other as well.

Basically any area where there's an insurer or a state body available to pay legal costs when they lose is one that will have a fair few no win no fee lawyers.
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I suppose the no win no fee crowd probably take a huge percentage of any claims? What does it compare to a non-ambulance chaser?
 
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