Hang on, have we had this conversation before, are we quiffing each other?
I'm fucking losing it. I'm about to spend 14 euro delivery charge for a box of teabags as I'm down to my last 35.
Chinese "Devil Virus" - anyone worried?
- Thread starter manwithnoname
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I'm fucking losing it. I'm about to spend 14 euro delivery charge for a box of teabags as I'm down to my last 35.
President Trump doubled down on Sunday on his push for the use of an anti-malarial drug against the coronavirus, issuing medical advice that goes well beyond scant evidence of the drug’s effectiveness as well as the advice of doctors and public health experts.
Mr. Trump’s recommendation of hydroxychloroquine, for the second day in a row at a White House briefing, was a striking example of his brazen willingness to distort and outright defy expert opinion and scientific evidence when it does not suit his agenda.
Mr. Trump suggested he was speaking on gut instinct, and acknowledged he had no expertise on the subject.
“But what do I know? I’m not a doctor,” Mr. Trump said, after recommending the anti-malaria drug’s use for coronavirus patients as well as medical personnel at high risk of infection.
“If it does work, it would be a shame we did not do it early,” Mr. Trump said, noting again that the federal government had purchased and stockpiled 29 million doses of the drug.
“What do you have to lose?” Mr. Trump asked, for the second day in a row.
When a reporter asked Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, to weigh in on the question of using hydroxychloroquine, Mr. Trump stopped him from answering. As the reporter noted that Dr. Fauci was the president’s medical expert, Mr. Trump made it clear he did not want the doctor to answer.
“He’s answered the question 15 times,” the president said, stepping toward the lectern where Dr. Fauci was standing.
On Saturday, Dr. Fauci had privately challenged rising optimism about the drug’s efficacy during a meeting of the coronavirus task force in the White House’s Situation Room, according to two people familiar with the events. The argument was first reported by the website Axios.
Peter Navarro, the president’s trade adviser who is overseeing supply chain issues related to the coronavirus, plopped a sheaf of folders on the table and said he had seen several studies from various countries, as well as information culled from C.D.C. officials, showing the “clear” efficacy of chloroquines in treating the coronavirus.
Dr. Fauci pushed back, echoing remarks he has made in a series of interviews in the last week that rigorous study is still necessary. Mr. Navarro, an economist by training, shot back that the information he had collected was “science,” according to the people familiar with what took place.
Mr. Trump’s recommendation of hydroxychloroquine, for the second day in a row at a White House briefing, was a striking example of his brazen willingness to distort and outright defy expert opinion and scientific evidence when it does not suit his agenda.
Mr. Trump suggested he was speaking on gut instinct, and acknowledged he had no expertise on the subject.
“But what do I know? I’m not a doctor,” Mr. Trump said, after recommending the anti-malaria drug’s use for coronavirus patients as well as medical personnel at high risk of infection.
“If it does work, it would be a shame we did not do it early,” Mr. Trump said, noting again that the federal government had purchased and stockpiled 29 million doses of the drug.
“What do you have to lose?” Mr. Trump asked, for the second day in a row.
When a reporter asked Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, to weigh in on the question of using hydroxychloroquine, Mr. Trump stopped him from answering. As the reporter noted that Dr. Fauci was the president’s medical expert, Mr. Trump made it clear he did not want the doctor to answer.
“He’s answered the question 15 times,” the president said, stepping toward the lectern where Dr. Fauci was standing.
On Saturday, Dr. Fauci had privately challenged rising optimism about the drug’s efficacy during a meeting of the coronavirus task force in the White House’s Situation Room, according to two people familiar with the events. The argument was first reported by the website Axios.
Peter Navarro, the president’s trade adviser who is overseeing supply chain issues related to the coronavirus, plopped a sheaf of folders on the table and said he had seen several studies from various countries, as well as information culled from C.D.C. officials, showing the “clear” efficacy of chloroquines in treating the coronavirus.
Dr. Fauci pushed back, echoing remarks he has made in a series of interviews in the last week that rigorous study is still necessary. Mr. Navarro, an economist by training, shot back that the information he had collected was “science,” according to the people familiar with what took place.
Oh fuck. Nooooo. Another 3 weeks of this shit. I bet we get the same or worse.
Something to do with a decentralised healthcare infrastructure whereby a larger amount of labs - commercial and state run - were already running independently.
Or something along those lines.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-logic-is-helping-it-win-the-coronavirus-race
That's a really good read but I'm not sure about the point he made about lifting restrictions and then 28 days later (two cycles) being back where they started at the peak.
That hasn't followed in either China nor South Korea, where in China virtually all new infections are imported (restrictions in place being against opening tourist attractions or other places of large congregations and people continuing to wear masks and social distance where possible. Aside from Wuhan which still has more severe restrictions in place) and S.Korea where the Govt. issued this statement :
Isolation and quarantine are still common words in South Korea and Taiwan, however, life has retained a sense of normality. The majority of tourist events in South Korea have been canceled, although domestic tourism is still occurring through this global crisis. In a statement, the South Korean Consulate General of Dubai said: “The Korean government is taking aggressive measures to stop transmission and save lives. Tourists should not be afraid of visiting South Korea, cities like Seoul, Busan and Jeju Island are safe.”
This was also an obvious statement that many people ignore : Essentially they'd be balancing daily deaths vs economic activity... And before someone argues that every life is priceless. No it isn't. Your lives all have a very specific monetary value. The measure most used in the UK by NICE is called the QALY - Quality Adjusted Life Year. Most recently it was somewhere between about 15k and 20k Euro
Here's a link to explain it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualit...sted_life_year
This is a contentious but obvious point he makes too - countries can't shut down indefinitely, there has to be a balancing point for the greater good:
I'll assume we don't even have an experimental vaccine... If that is true then we'll have a choice between accepting higher daily death rates - which we'll have become accustomed to by the next two months - for those three months or we'll go into whatever of lockdown the statisticians and PR guys have figured will result in the daily death rate which the public will tolerate versus the severity of the lockdown.
This will be when you'll really see the selfishness in society. Things happened so quickly this time there wasn't much debate. Come October there will be a very active pushback against another lockdown. There will be a very active - but they're old and will die soon anyway lobby, much more active than it is now.
Unfortunately when push comes to shove people tend to be very selfish and when they've had a taste of freedom after two months of lockdown they really won't, en masse, want to go back to lockdown. The line that those whose families are high risk can choose to behave how they want instead of forcing all of society into lockdown will be prevalent.
How many will die in Q4? Well, easily 6k to 8k but a lot of that depends on the political and economic balancing vs deaths. How many die will be a choice the public and our government will make. They'll have the information to project the death rates from various courses of action much more accurately than they had now. This is why they were so cautious this time. Come October they'll have greater confidence in balancing life vs economics.
I'll assume we don't even have an experimental vaccine... If that is true then we'll have a choice between accepting higher daily death rates - which we'll have become accustomed to by the next two months - for those three months or we'll go into whatever of lockdown the statisticians and PR guys have figured will result in the daily death rate which the public will tolerate versus the severity of the lockdown.
This will be when you'll really see the selfishness in society. Things happened so quickly this time there wasn't much debate. Come October there will be a very active pushback against another lockdown. There will be a very active - but they're old and will die soon anyway lobby, much more active than it is now.
Unfortunately when push comes to shove people tend to be very selfish and when they've had a taste of freedom after two months of lockdown they really won't, en masse, want to go back to lockdown. The line that those whose families are high risk can choose to behave how they want instead of forcing all of society into lockdown will be prevalent.
How many will die in Q4? Well, easily 6k to 8k but a lot of that depends on the political and economic balancing vs deaths. How many die will be a choice the public and our government will make. They'll have the information to project the death rates from various courses of action much more accurately than they had now. This is why they were so cautious this time. Come October they'll have greater confidence in balancing life vs economics.
Yes, Larium was the one that fucked us up too
The opinion of the fake news in green. Big D's actual words in yellow. Ironic when their opinion is all to do with having insufficient evidence to support a conclusion.
Just watched what I could stomach of his interview again. He is actively promoting it, it's clearly not fake news (unless the video was faked) though yes he did qualify himself by saying "I'm not a doctor" but his message is clear of course. Clearly Trump didn't want Fauci speaking again because he knows he'll try to mitigate Trump's unqualified opinion.
"What have you got to lose"? He has the gall to say "the cure could be worse than the disease" with respect to social distancing/quarantining and then uses the exact phrase to promote an untested drug !
The alternative take could be "Trump tries to raise morale and provide some hope to his citizens in the face of the deadly Chinese pandemic".
It's now being used for treatment here in Austria.
Not adapted as required for CV-19, which is why Fauci said not for months.
By touting 'fake news'? Gotcha, we'll go with that then !
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And in a number of other places, however not only are the long term effects clearly unknown (when used as required to treat CV-19) but other physicians are claiming that the results are dubious at best and could be the result of the cocktail used.
If the effects were undisputed everyone would be using it already.
I'm sure I read a report stating no benefit was found when tested on rats infected with the virus. I'll try and find it again. Hope I'm wrong and there's no smoke without fire, it would be an easy drug to manufacture in large quantities.
It's not untested
From the Lancet:
As the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) outbreak continues to spread rapidly, efforts are ongoing in China and around the world to develop effective treatments. Among the drugs being tested for COVID-19 in China is chloroquine, which was reported on Feb 4, 2020, to inhibit severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 in vitro. The drug was rapidly pushed to clinical testing as an experimental treatment in China; on Feb 15, 2020, it was included in the sixth version of the COVID-19 treatment guidelines by the National Health Commission of the People's Republic of China. This guideline established the use of chloroquine nationwide for patients with COVID-19, at a recommended adult dose of 500 mg twice per day for no more than 10 days.
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Yeah, you would lad
Very interesting indeed but not conclusive, it comes as no surprise that China (considering the situation back then) would push it into trials (as has been done with other drugs at clinics around the world trying to find a quick cure/vaccine). How come many more Govts haven't taken this up though and why is Fauci (CDC) pouring luke-warm water on this potential game-changer ? Curiouser and curiouser.
This (from Livescience) seems to be the testing Rosco referred to (good read) :
In February, a research group led by virologist Manli Wang of the Chinese Academy of Sciences put the idea to the test and found that chloroquine successfully stopped the spread of SARS-CoV-2 in cultured human cells. Preliminary reports from China, South Korea and France suggest that the treatment is at least somewhat effective in treating human patients, and some hospitals in the U.S. have begun administering the drug, according to The New York Times. In addition, the FDA is organizing a large clinical trial to formally assess the drug's effects, the Times reported.
However, due to a short supply of chloroquine in China, and the fact that an overdose can lead to acute poisoning or death in humans, Wang's team also investigated the closely related drug hydroxychloroquine. Though it shares a similar structure, hydroxychloroquine shows lower toxicity in animals than its chemical cousin and remains widely available as a treatment for lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, the authors noted.
https://www.livescience.com/chloroquine-coronavirus-treatment.html
In February, a research group led by virologist Manli Wang of the Chinese Academy of Sciences put the idea to the test and found that chloroquine successfully stopped the spread of SARS-CoV-2 in cultured human cells. Preliminary reports from China, South Korea and France suggest that the treatment is at least somewhat effective in treating human patients, and some hospitals in the U.S. have begun administering the drug, according to The New York Times. In addition, the FDA is organizing a large clinical trial to formally assess the drug's effects, the Times reported.
However, due to a short supply of chloroquine in China, and the fact that an overdose can lead to acute poisoning or death in humans, Wang's team also investigated the closely related drug hydroxychloroquine. Though it shares a similar structure, hydroxychloroquine shows lower toxicity in animals than its chemical cousin and remains widely available as a treatment for lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, the authors noted.
https://www.livescience.com/chloroquine-coronavirus-treatment.html
Latest from our government is that we now have things under control, and we’re seeing a decrease in the numbers of infected. We’re down to that each infected person will infect 0,7 people. Worst case scenario was 2,5.
Everything is extended by a week though, at least the closing of schools and daycare.
But after easter things might open up a bit at least.
Denmark are doing the same.
Everything is extended by a week though, at least the closing of schools and daycare.
But after easter things might open up a bit at least.
Denmark are doing the same.
I wouldn't regard the "Lancet" as reliable. The editor of that publication, Richard Horton, was on BBC "Question Time" recently, and he turned out to be a loud-mouthed paid-up member of the Labour Party who did his best to give the Tories a hard time.
