Chinese "Devil Virus" - anyone worried?

[dantes]

They counted stuff, the numbers they counted are in the report, the numbers matter, and an idiot like dreamy could have counted the same stuff without any problems. What is this neurotic obsession you have with the source and analysing sources? Just analyse the fucking information, it's simple.

(1) When you count the number of unsolicited mail in ballots sent, the result is the number of unsolicited mail in ballots sent.
(2) When you count the number of heart inflammation cases after vaccination, the result is the number of heart inflammation cases after vaccination.

These things, (1) and (2), are how counting works.

(3) The proportion of heart inflammation cases that were counted is equal to the probability of you suffering heart inflammation after vaccination.

This thing is not about counting, it is an equation relating two different things, which is science, and the only way to know whether or not your equation is correct is to use the scientific method (predict some consequence of the equation, then check it by experiment, or if you can't do that then you need to break down and investigate all the component parts of the equation, check as many of them as you can, and then hope the sum of the parts is correct). You don't know how to do this, nor do you know the difference between counting and science it seems. What you do know is that the equation in (3) is almost always going to be wrong, for reasons you are perfectly capable of figuring out should you care to think about it. Alas you don't think enough, you're too preoccupied with your virtue signalling equivalent of following the science.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

If you compare the risks of myocarditis and other side affects, to the risks of not being vaccinated, it's not even close. No amount of misreading and misinterpreting data will change that.

 

[StevieM]

(1) When you count the number of unsolicited mail in ballots sent, the result is the number of unsolicited mail in ballots sent.
(2) When you count the number of heart inflammation cases after vaccination, the result is the number of heart inflammation cases after vaccination.

These things, (1) and (2), are how counting works.

(3) The proportion of heart inflammation cases that were counted is equal to the probability of you suffering heart inflammation after vaccination.

This thing is not about counting, it is an equation relating two different things, which is science, and the only way to know whether or not your equation is correct is to use the scientific method (predict some consequence of the equation, then check it by experiment, or if you can't do that then you need to break down and investigate all the component parts of the equation, check as many of them as you can, and then hope the sum of the parts is correct). You don't know how to do this, nor do you know the difference between counting and science it seems. What you do know is that the equation in (3) is almost always going to be wrong, for reasons you are perfectly capable of figuring out should you care to think about it. Alas you don't think enough, you're too preoccupied with your virtue signalling equivalent of following the science.

No, I just thought it’s be fun to post your own words back at you.

Nothing more, nothing less.

And it was fun.

For me anyway.

 

[Hansern]

No, your assumption is correct. The thing you have incorrect seems to be that the Norway data is about the Moderna vaccine, which they halted, whilst the Israel data is about the Pfizer vaccine, which they're studying.

Incorrect, we have data on both and the numbers are extremely low and most of the few cases that happen only warrant some medical follow up for a few days. But they have said that young men under 30 are advised to take the Pfizer vaccine because of this. Still its your own choice whether you take the Moderna or Pfizer, and its correlated to the second jab.

Finland have even lesser cases than us, and are doing the same.

The collective output though is that everyone over 30 should take the Moderna.

 

[dantes]

Incorrect, we have data on both and the numbers are extremely low and most of the few cases that happen only warrant some medical follow up for a few days. But they have said that young men under 30 are advised to take the Pfizer vaccine because of this. Still its your own choice whether you take the Moderna or Pfizer, and its correlated to the second jab.

Finland have even lesser cases than us, and are doing the same.

The collective output though is that everyone over 30 should take the Moderna.

Incorrect. Norway has data on many other things too, including but not limited to their estimated oil reserves, the population, the average temperature, the average life expectancy, the rate of return on their sovereign wealth fund, and so forth. All of this data provides the basis for many other forms of advice upon other matters which you have chosen to totally ignore in your reply.

 

[Hansern]

Incorrect. Norway has data on many other things too, including but not limited to their estimated oil reserves, the population, the average temperature, the average life expectancy, the rate of return on their sovereign wealth fund, and so forth. All of this data provides the basis for many other forms of advice upon other matters which you have chosen to totally ignore in your reply.

 

[dantes]

And you are still incorrect, because of that other data on those other things that happened to enter my head, and you totally failed to take them into account in your reply, which makes you incorrect.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Let's not be hasty, up to now no credible experts would have referred to israeli data, and for good reason because their data was not supported by the expert consensus, so although this data looks more promising, I think we should wait to see what credible experts have to say over the coming days and weeks. Can never be too careful when it comes to interpreting data, that's what the experts are there for, so let them do their job.

Come on dude - you've been agreeing to every bit of data from Israel that supports your views - now it doesn't and you say "let's not be hasty"?

 

[dantes]

Come on dude - you've been agreeing to every bit of data from Israel that supports your views - now it doesn't and you say "let's not be hasty"?

My view is the vaccines caused blood clots and heart inflammation. That was my view since the first case came to my attention. That view was taken as evidence of conspiracy theorising by all but one person here. It is what it is. The view was actually based on the fact I know how to interpret data properly. That also is what it is. So my view turned out to be correct. Now we're discussing how rare it is instead and you want to pretend my view was that it is not rare, in order to argue that I'm wrong or something? I'd rather just laugh at your predicament of having to rely on stupid people counting up medical data, and neither they nor you having any idea of what to do with it.

 

[dantes]

If memory serves, my exact response to frogfish when he was still arguing about it being a coincidence was "I warned you the cheap experimental vaccine will have such issues when you don't spend time to do the research, oh well, can't complain, at least we have a vaccine, if people die they die, dantes will survive though which is the point". Then I proceeded to get vaccinated. You seem to have now adopted that position, around six months later.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

My view is the vaccines caused blood clots and heart inflammation. That was my view since the first case came to my attention. That view was taken as evidence of conspiracy theorising by all but one person here. It is what it is. The view was actually based on the fact I know how to interpret data properly. That also is what it is. So my view turned out to be correct. Now we're discussing how rare it is instead and you want to pretend my view was that it is not rare, in order to argue that I'm wrong or something? I'd rather just laugh at your predicament of having to rely on stupid people counting up medical data, and neither they nor you having any idea of what to do with it.

It's not correct though. You're more likely to suffer from it(latest study says six times more likely), if you get Covid, than if you get a vaccine.

 

[Rosco]

I think we need to see the evidence.

How do we know these people didn't develop it because of the vaccine rather than covid itself ? Cos you can have both

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

I think we need to see the evidence.

How do we know these people didn't develop it because of the vaccine rather than covid itself ? Cos you can have both

Yeah, I don't know the answer. It's a US study, so suspect there'll be big enough samples without the vaccine. But the numbers getting it, whether with Covid, vaccine, or both, are pretty small anyway.

 

[Rosco]

 

[Frogfish]

My view is the vaccines caused blood clots and heart inflammation. That was my view since the first case came to my attention. That view was taken as evidence of conspiracy theorising by all but one person here. It is what it is. The view was actually based on the fact I know how to interpret data properly. That also is what it is. So my view turned out to be correct. Now we're discussing how rare it is instead and you want to pretend my view was that it is not rare, in order to argue that I'm wrong or something? I'd rather just laugh at your predicament of having to rely on stupid people counting up medical data, and neither they nor you having any idea of what to do with it.

And you were guessing. Since you actually had no idea and no data, just an elephant-sized inflated ego, a predilection for outrageous conspiracy theories and a wild overestimation of your abilities ... as has been shown time and time again. Had you been wrong (as you have been regarding many things) you'd have hidden that opinion in the shadows.

 

[Rosco]

Yeah, I don't know the answer. It's a US study, so suspect there'll be big enough samples without the vaccine. But the numbers getting it, whether with Covid, vaccine, or both, are pretty small anyway.

The evidence doesn't appear to all that clear

 

[Rosco]

It's now dawning on me why Pfizer are so secretive about what's in the vaccine, apart from the contaminants they're now hiding the aborted fetus cells in the vaccine.

 

[Gerry_A_Trick]

That's for vaccinated people. Comparing if they are likely to be hospitalised with Covid or get myocarditis. It's not comparing to unvaccinated people.

 

[Hansern]

From The Nairobian to LinkedIn messages.
The Firm would be proud.

 

[Frogfish]

If memory serves, my exact response to frogfish when he was still arguing about it being a coincidence was "I warned you the cheap experimental vaccine will have such issues when you don't spend time to do the research, oh well, can't complain, at least we have a vaccine, if people die they die, dantes will survive though which is the point". Then I proceeded to get vaccinated. You seem to have now adopted that position, around six months later.

Your memory never serves you right, you're almost in Rosco's class, at twisting / perverting comments to suit your rhetoric, though not quite.

And you said nothing of the kind (at least int he initial debate - I can never be bothered reading all the crap you post and so skip the majority of your posts - what you did say was "You're perfectly free to believe in coincidences, mathematics is also perfectly free to laugh at your attempt to conclude anything about the statistical significance or frequency of an outlier event based on a bell curve".

This is what I said and quoted :

Here's the maths for you (USA): 1 in 4,000 per annum die of DVT/PE in an average year. 1 in 33 million has so far been suspected (claimed) to have died from a thrombosis caused by a CV19 vaccine.

Quote from the CDC :
The precise number of people affected by DVT/PE is unknown, although as many as 900,000 people could be affected (1 to 2 per 1,000) each year in the United States. Estimates suggest that 60,000-100,000 Americans die of DVT/PE per annum.
So it's very likely it's coincidental. Though there is still the very low possibility that it was caused by the vaccine as all of them cause a slight increase in blood viscosity.
This is the same reason that some labs in Europe (for clarification without any proof of actual causality, as they have admitted - they say they are erring on the side of caution (even though the actual EMA have disregarded the deaths as statistically irrelevant), this whilst the death rate if you actually contract Covid being much higher) are unsure that recent thrombosis deaths are caused by increased viscosity from taking the vaccine or by natural incidence.

Quote : Correlation isn't causation - it is likely the thrombotic events are coincidental, suspension is abundance of caution.

------

So that was the maths now I'd like to see the proof of causation Dantes, let's see the updated statistics and if they now surpass natural occurrence. I'm willing to cross the fence if the weight of medical opinion now supports your guess. Actually on the other hand this is just another case of deja vu so don't bother ... anyone can just go back to pages 345-7 and so avoid having to read Dantes' repetitious blathering over the next couple of pages.

And for the actual statistics (UK study of 29 million people, published in the BMJ on 27th Aug 2021) :

Within 28 days of a first dose of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, 66 people per 10 million were hospitalized or died from blood clots in the veins, compared to 12,614 per 10 million who had tested positive for the virus.
Meanwhile, an estimated 143 people per 10 million were hospitalized or died of ischaemic stroke in the 28 days after a first dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, compared to 1,699 who had tested positive for Covid-19.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/27/covid-not-vaccinations-presents-biggest-blood-clot-risk-study.html

 

[Holle]

Is this thread still just endless trolling from Dantes & Ross? One of which we know has been double vaxxed but we can probably also assume the same for Dantes unless he wants to plead otherwise?

One is trolling, one's a plank.

 

[Hansern]

One is trolling, one's a plank.

To be fair, the troll is also a plank.

 

[dantes]

Your memory never serves you right, you're almost in Rosco's class, at twisting / perverting comments to suit your rhetoric, though not quite.

And you said nothing of the kind (at least int he initial debate - I can never be bothered reading all the crap you post and so skip the majority of your posts - what you did say was "You're perfectly free to believe in coincidences, mathematics is also perfectly free to laugh at your attempt to conclude anything about the statistical significance or frequency of an outlier event based on a bell curve".

This is what I said and quoted :



------

So that was the maths now I'd like to see the proof of causation Dantes, let's see the updated statistics and if they now surpass natural occurrence. I'm willing to cross the fence if the weight of medical opinion now supports your guess. Actually on the other hand this is just another case of deja vu so don't bother ... anyone can just go back to pages 345-7 and so avoid having to read Dantes' repetitious blathering over the next couple of pages.

And for the actual statistics (UK study of 29 million people, published in the BMJ on 27th Aug 2021) :

Within 28 days of a first dose of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, 66 people per 10 million were hospitalized or died from blood clots in the veins, compared to 12,614 per 10 million who had tested positive for the virus.
Meanwhile, an estimated 143 people per 10 million were hospitalized or died of ischaemic stroke in the 28 days after a first dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, compared to 1,699 who had tested positive for Covid-19.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/27/covid-not-vaccinations-presents-biggest-blood-clot-risk-study.html

I've explained it to you three times now. It will be no different this time, your brain and probability theory just don't seem to get on. I didn't guess, it was a stone cold mathematical fact that the vaccines caused the clots. Do you want a fourth explanation? Try this, your brain is functioning like this cowboy's, that's not my fault.

 

[dantes]

If memory serves, a doctor died of the same thing in the US after his vaccination. Can't be helped when you are forced to roll out a vaccine before doing the usual amount of research.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/12/health/covid-vaccine-death.html

11 March 2021 - dantes memory serves him just fine.

 

[Rosco]

Frogfish still doesn't believe the virus originated in China

 

[Rosco]

 

[Frogfish]

I've explained it to you three times now. It will be no different this time, your brain and probability theory just don't seem to get on. I didn't guess, it was a stone cold mathematical fact that the vaccines caused the clots. Do you want a fourth explanation? Try this, your brain is functioning like this cowboy's, that's not my fault.

It was a guess. A wild guess. As are most of your 'theories', the majority of which crash and burn with utter silence from your corner.

 

[dantes]

20% of the 600k in Ireland was AZ.

Dantes is going to hate you for posting that.

i can categorically assure you that Dr Grimes is an idiot, he has absolutely no idea how probabilities work, and the information he's conveying there is so ridiculously dumb as to defy belief. I fucking pray his doctorate is in the arts, probably best I don't look into it.

"A wild guess". You need to watch the cowboy clip several times, the penny must drop eventually, it simply must.

 

[Frogfish]

"A wild guess". You need to watch the cowboy clip several times, the penny must drop eventually, it simply must.

When will the penny drop for you? You are an item of amusement and ridicule so why on earth would anyone bother to read links/watch anything you post? That's the only benefit to be derived from this thread, when I can actually be arsed perusing it.

 

[Rosco]

When will the penny drop for you? You are an item of amusement and ridicule so why on earth would anyone bother to read links/watch anything you post? That's the only benefit to be derived from this thread, when I can actually be arsed perusing it.

Pot / kettle