Chinese "Devil Virus" - anyone worried?

[Halmeister]

Some wool who was fit as a fiddle, loved rock climbing and shit died from it. So the best protection is to stay away from other humans where possible. I’m entirely comfortable with that.

Forever? Because we're not eradicating this. There's always going to be outliers. Healthy footballers drop dead sometimes.

The vast majority of people who die from this are old, have other ailments or are overweight.

If you're too afraid to actually live your life, then what's the point? Ban cars while we're at it. 1.3 million people die a year in road accidents.

 

[Halmeister]

Ah I'm out of this thread. See you all in line for our mealworm butties and jabs when they let us out in twenty years.

 

[Rosco]

It seems we have discovered that although evidence shows it stops u from dying it does not totally prevent infection.

Learning every day...

And yes some of the info from the CDC can be contradictory but ALL data so far shows that chances of death from it are massively reduced so... no great confusion really.

Does it?

The Delta strain is far less serious in itself so the less deaths and hospitalisation could simply be because of that

 

[Halmeister]

Does it?

The Delta strain is far less serious in itself so the less deaths and hospitalisation could simply be because of that

We'll never know the truth. We'll have data that suggests that it's the vaccine reducing deaths and hospitalisations, then we'll have data from the other side saying natural immunity and a less deadly virus are the cause.

 

[darkstarexodus]

Ban cars while we're at it. 1.3 million people die a year in road accidents.

Yes.

 

[Molbystwin]

Does it?

The Delta strain is far less serious in itself so the less deaths and hospitalisation could simply be because of that

Is that what they are saying now? Its markedly more contagious but with a lower fatality rate? I haven't heard it like that, i assumed the lower death rate was due to the infections falling upon a younger non vaccinated demographic less likely to cark it...

Dunno...

 

[Rosco]

Is that what they are saying now? Its markedly more contagious but with a lower fatality rate? I haven't heard it like that, i assumed the lower death rate was due to the infections falling upon a younger non vaccinated demographic less likely to cark it...

Dunno...

When they first released the Delta variant the main symptoms were basically the same as hayfever.

 

[Athens]

I had really bad hay fever earlier in the summer...

 

[StevieM]

I don’t think @StevieM will want to stick around if the wine runs out so it could be for the best.

It’ll take a while.

I bought just over 100 bottles of wine last month.

 

[MomoWASright]

64 days worth?

 

[StevieM]

64 days worth?

If I take it easy and chuck a few beers into the mix.

 

[Farkmaster]

We'll never know the truth. We'll have data that suggests that it's the vaccine reducing deaths and hospitalisations, then we'll have data from the other side saying natural immunity and a less deadly virus are the cause.

Yes, on the one side we will have data, people who spend their life becoming experts in their fields, and common sense.

On the other, we will have fucking dumb speculation on football forums, and shit posting, meme merchants.

The vaccine is tremendously effective. If it weren't a whole metric fuck ton of old bastards in Florida would be dead. Instead it's a fraction of that. You can easily predict how many deaths will occur in an area during a surge at the moment by looking at one stat - what percentage of their elderly are vaccinated.

This is like this everythings awesome and nobody is happy bit by Louis CK. Smart people developed a great vaccine. Rich countries got to the front of the line. Now listen to all of them bitch.

When you say things like "it's not a vaccine" or posit false equivalencies you further a discourse that actually kills people.

 

[dantes]

Yes, on the one side we will have data, people who spend their life becoming experts in their fields, and common sense.

On the other, we will have fucking dumb speculation on football forums, and shit posting, meme merchants.

The vaccine is tremendously effective. If it weren't a whole metric fuck ton of old bastards in Florida would be dead. Instead it's a fraction of that. You can easily predict how many deaths will occur in an area during a surge at the moment by looking at one stat - what percentage of their elderly are vaccinated.

This is like this everythings awesome and nobody is happy bit by Louis CK. Smart people developed a great vaccine. Rich countries got to the front of the line. Now listen to all of them bitch.

When you say things like "it's not a vaccine" or posit false equivalencies you further a discourse that actually kills people.

Except no lives will be saved by coercing people under 40 to get vaccinated. All it will do is kill some of them, oh well. But more importantly, it will jeopardise the people over 40 who are vaccinated and depend upon the vaccine retaining its effectiveness. That is what the data says. Yet, it is not what your experts say because they've zero interest or ability to predict the future. They're just virtue signalling about the data that has already happened.

 

[StevieM]

Except no lives will be saved by coercing people under 40 to get vaccinated. All it will do is kill some of them, oh well. But more importantly, it will jeopardise the people over 40 who are vaccinated and depend upon the vaccine retaining its effectiveness. That is what the data says. Yet, it is not what your experts say because they've zero interest or ability to predict the future. They're just virtue signalling about the data that has already happened.

Given that you want to kill everyone that isn’t a hot Columbian undergraduate, you’ll forgive me for ignoring everything you say.

In the unlikely event you’re actually right about something - our gloriously “woke” society affords me the opportunity to change my name to SofiaM and self-identify as a hot Colombian undergraduate.

 

[dantes]

Given that you want to kill everyone that isn’t a hot Columbian undergraduate, you’ll forgive me for ignoring everything you say.

In the unlikely event you’re actually right about something - our gloriously “woke” society affords me the opportunity to change my name to SofiaM and self-identify as a hot Colombian undergraduate.

Well, before it became racist to do so, this is what scientists were researching https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-vaccines-can-drive-pathogens-to-evolve-20180510/ but of course that was 2018 so take it with a grain of salt. As you say we're fully woke now, and obviously looking back we can see that their research was total racist conspiracy theorising bullshit. Thank god we got woke and have our new and improved diverse perspective upon mass vaccination, lest we fall for this sort of racist nonsense such as the following white supremacist infographic attempts to peddle.

Never seen such disgusting racist propaganda before in my life. Also... postgraduate. What sort of nonce do you take me for? Postgraduate. The undergraduates can die with everyone else, they're too far gone anyway, the woke fools, beyond help.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

Almost everything has been done with a computerized models of the virus. They took 3 hours to design the vaccine... based off a computer model.

No it wasn't. And no it didn't.
Another fucking lunatic who believes all the bollocks in the internets.

 

[StevieM]

Well, before it became racist to do so, this is what scientists were researching https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-vaccines-can-drive-pathogens-to-evolve-20180510/ but of course that was 2018 so take it with a grain of salt. As you say we're fully woke now, and obviously looking back we can see that their research was total racist conspiracy theorising bullshit. Thank god we got woke and have our new and improved diverse perspective upon mass vaccination, lest we fall for this sort of racist nonsense such as the following white supremacist infographic attempts to peddle.

Never seen such disgusting racist propaganda before in my life. Also... postgraduate. What sort of nonce do you take me for? Postgraduate. The undergraduates can die with everyone else, they're too far gone anyway, the woke fools, beyond help.

Graphs and a triple woke mention score.

#winning

 

[peekay]

Forever? Because we're not eradicating this. There's always going to be outliers. Healthy footballers drop dead sometimes.

The vast majority of people who die from this are old, have other ailments or are overweight.

If you're too afraid to actually live your life, then what's the point? Ban cars while we're at it. 1.3 million people die a year in road accidents.

In the US, there are on average 35000-40000 fatalities per year due to automobile accidents. In response to that billions and billions of public and private sector dollars are spent annually on making cars safer, highway design practices, design of curves, speed limits, policymaking, technology for safer driving, sensors, new braking technology, lane departure warnings, blind-spot detection etc. There are rules and regulations and laws.

Even if you don't trust the official statistics, COVID in 2020 caused the death of at least five times that number in the US. It is only fair to expect that we cannot go back to the previous "normal".

I am not criticizing your view point. I honestly don't know what the correct answer is. But it is not as simple as "If you are too afraid to actually live your life, what is the point?"

In the case of rules for automobiles, we have a good idea of the safety vs efficiency tradeoff. We know if the speed limits are set too low, some drivers speed which creates dangerous driving conditions. In a lot of cases, the speed limit is set at 85th percentile speed which accommodates most drivers without compromising efficiency. We know this through years of observing people's driving behavior.

Maybe to reach the new normal we will require several iterations of rules and regulations till we hit that sweet spot. Of course, that requires policy makers who are smart and who don't have hidden agendas and who have the ability to learn and adapt.

 

[Farkmaster]

I find the idea that old people have no life to live, and of course they die, to be fucking heinous.

My dad ran a half marathon a few years back. He walks miles every day, as does my mum. Their deaths would be explained away as old people who had underlying conditions by some. Of course they have other conditions. They're old. They're also in great health. They're enjoying life immensely.

Also, setting aside the factual errors in the idea that a computer model was the only thing used to develop a virus, what world do you think we live in now? They build frisbees with computer models, material scientists use computer modeling, everybody uses computers to model shit, it's a useful tool. Should they bust out an abacus and a divining rod?

 

[Halmeister]

In the US, there are on average 35000-40000 fatalities per year due to automobile accidents. In response to that billions and billions of public and private sector dollars are spent annually on making cars safer, highway design practices, design of curves, speed limits, policymaking, technology for safer driving, sensors, new braking technology, lane departure warnings, blind-spot detection etc. There are rules and regulations and laws.

Even if you don't trust the official statistics, COVID in 2020 caused the death of at least five times that number in the US. It is only fair to expect that we cannot go back to the previous "normal".

I am not criticizing your view point. I honestly don't know what the correct answer is. But it is not as simple as "If you are too afraid to actually live your life, what is the point?"

In the case of rules for automobiles, we have a good idea of the safety vs efficiency tradeoff. We know if the speed limits are set too low, some drivers speed which creates dangerous driving conditions. In a lot of cases, the speed limit is set at 85th percentile speed which accommodates most drivers without compromising efficiency. We know this through years of observing people's driving behavior.

Maybe to reach the new normal we will require several iterations of rules and regulations till we hit that sweet spot. Of course, that requires policy makers who are smart and who don't have hidden agendas and who have the ability to learn and adapt.

I'm gonna try and avoid this thread because, as with most things, I feel like arguments get dragged and polarised, and you end up defending a position you weren't originally advocating. It doesn't help that the whole business is incredibly frustrating and confusing, and I find it hard to adequately express my thoughts coherently. Not saying you're the cause of any of this, mind.

My overarching worry is handing over civil liberties and freedoms to lawmakers and government officials who have proven for decades, perhaps forever, to be callous, corrupt, untrustworthy, power hungry and deceitful. Do they want more control over us? Absolutely. Therefore, it's hard for me to square handing over rights and freedoms to these people. Is it what we need to do to get through this? Maybe. I don't know. I'm just positing questions. And anyone positing questions is shouted down and shunned and ostracised. It's all a bit boy who cried wolf for me. I don't trust them, and they've been wrong several times over this pandemic. Couple that with their track record and I think it's understandable for people to be wary about those pushing this agenda.

These are the same people (in the UK) that had to be fucking shamed on a national level to feed starving kids (a situation they are largely responsible for), and now they're trying to encourage kids to get the jab with free pizzas and kebabs. They're not arsed about our health. They never have been. So as a general rule, if they want something, I'm naturally sceptical.

My other main concern is the mental, emotional and psychological effect it is having on children. Like it or not, they're more important than those at the end of their lives. Should we let old and sick people die? No of course not. But we need to balance the risk of what we're doing to kids by devoiding them of social contact, education, teaching them to be terrified of the air. All over something that poses virtually zero threat to them. The measures at the moment seem to be outweighing the risk.

I have no problem with vaccines. I have no issue with people wanting to get it. But enforcing people to get it, while stifling any discussion about apparent inconsistencies, while also benefiting the established elite at the expense of most of the population, is just a bit of a red flag for me.

If we hadn't had our hands burnt so many times by these cunts, I'd get it tomorrow. I'll end up getting it because I don't want to be thrown in the gulag. But that's the problem.

 

[Halmeister]

There's more I wanted to say like the effects this is having on small businesses, depression and suicides skyrocketing etc, people losing out on life-saving treatment for other ailments... but you catch my drift.

 

[Holle]

Except no lives will be saved by coercing people under 40 to get vaccinated. All it will do is kill some of them, oh well. But more importantly, it will jeopardise the people over 40 who are vaccinated and depend upon the vaccine retaining its effectiveness. That is what the data says. Yet, it is not what your experts say because they've zero interest or ability to predict the future. They're just virtue signalling about the data that has already happened.

I always read your posts in Brad Pitt's voice which is quite entertaining.

 

[refugee]

]

I'm gonna try and avoid this thread because, as with most things, I feel like arguments get dragged and polarised, and you end up defending a position you weren't originally advocating. It doesn't help that the whole business is incredibly frustrating and confusing, and I find it hard to adequately express my thoughts coherently. Not saying you're the cause of any of this, mind.

My overarching worry is handing over civil liberties and freedoms to lawmakers and government officials who have proven for decades, perhaps forever, to be callous, corrupt, untrustworthy, power hungry and deceitful. Do they want more control over us? Absolutely. Therefore, it's hard for me to square handing over rights and freedoms to these people. Is it what we need to do to get through this? Maybe. I don't know. I'm just positing questions. And anyone positing questions is shouted down and shunned and ostracised. It's all a bit boy who cried wolf for me. I don't trust them, and they've been wrong several times over this pandemic. Couple that with their track record and I think it's understandable for people to be wary about those pushing this agenda.

These are the same people (in the UK) that had to be fucking shamed on a national level to feed starving kids (a situation they are largely responsible for), and now they're trying to encourage kids to get the jab with free pizzas and kebabs. They're not arsed about our health. They never have been. So as a general rule, if they want something, I'm naturally sceptical.

My other main concern is the mental, emotional and psychological effect it is having on children. Like it or not, they're more important than those at the end of their lives. Should we let old and sick people die? No of course not. But we need to balance the risk of what we're doing to kids by devoiding them of social contact, education, teaching them to be terrified of the air. All over something that poses virtually zero threat to them. The measures at the moment seem to be outweighing the risk.

I have no problem with vaccines. I have no issue with people wanting to get it. But enforcing people to get it, while stifling any discussion about apparent inconsistencies, while also benefiting the established elite at the expense of most of the population, is just a bit of a red flag for me.

If we hadn't had our hands burnt so many times by these cunts, I'd get it tomorrow. I'll end up getting it because I don't want to be thrown in the gulag. But that's the problem.

The stats for suicide weren't actually effected by covid. At least not in the first year. It was initially one of those social media myths that has become accepted due to people repeating it over and over again (see https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n834). Same as the social media "facts" about domestic abuse... which people are blaming on covid instead of the actual cunts doing the abusing.

Although it was a myth based on foreseeable guesswork, so it will likely prove to be eventually true (opinion). This is also influenced by people getting Covid correlating with mental health problems, with 20% of Covid sufferers having mental health problems (including dementia) after being afflicted , so it's likely it will go up eventually.
(see twitter link below)

)

But yeah, you are absolutely correct about the civil liberties as this government is awful. We could have been out of this a year ago with a proper lockdown and closing down entry into the country for anything other than freight, however the morons in charge decided to do it in half measures and we are still fucked.

We can open up now and let the 0.02% die, which is "only" 1.2M people (assuming a pop of 60M which is an underestimate), do what any sensible person would do and close down completely and properly lockdown until we get to zero cases and shut down the airports/ports to passengers Or do some shitty half measure, which is consistent with what we've already been doing and end with our current limbo situation.

 

[Frogfish]

... But yeah, you are absolutely correct about the civil liberties as this government is awful. We could have been out of this a year ago with a proper lockdown and closing down entry into the country for anything other than freight, however the morons in charge decided to do it in half measures and we are still fucked.

We can open up now and let the 0.02% die, which is "only" 1.2M people (assuming a pop of 60M which is an underestimate), do what any sensible person would do and close down completely and properly lockdown until we get to zero cases and shut down the airports/ports to passengers Or do some shitty half measure, which is consistent with what we've already been doing and end with our current limbo situation.

Let's be honest here ... not a single country in Europe, North or South America got it 'right' whatever 'right' is, and we're all still guessing at that. It's all very well blaming it on a government (we all do as an outlet for frustration) but it was a unique situation in modern times and governments were floundering because they were damned if they did (by 50% of the population) and damned if they didn't (by the other half). Bar some of the most obvious idiots who tried to ignore it (e.g. Trump & Bolsonaro).

 

[JohnnyRocket]

]


The stats for suicide weren't actually effected by covid. At least not in the first year. It was initially one of those social media myths that has become accepted due to people repeating it over and over again (see https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n834). Same as the social media "facts" about domestic abuse... which people are blaming on covid instead of the actual cunts doing the abusing.

Although it was a myth based on foreseeable guesswork, so it will likely prove to be eventually true (opinion). This is also influenced by people getting Covid correlating with mental health problems, with 20% of Covid sufferers having mental health problems (including dementia) after being afflicted , so it's likely it will go up eventually.
(see twitter link below)

)

But yeah, you are absolutely correct about the civil liberties as this government is awful. We could have been out of this a year ago with a proper lockdown and closing down entry into the country for anything other than freight, however the morons in charge decided to do it in half measures and we are still fucked.

We can open up now and let the 0.02% die, which is "only" 1.2M people (assuming a pop of 60M which is an underestimate), do what any sensible person would do and close down completely and properly lockdown until we get to zero cases and shut down the airports/ports to passengers Or do some shitty half measure, which is consistent with what we've already been doing and end with our current limbo situation.

0.02% of 60mil is 12 000

 

[Halmeister]

Yeah, plus the death rate is 0.2%, so it would be 120,000

But then there are also discrepancies with how deaths are calculated and attributed etc, but that's a bit of a dark road to go down and I cba.

 

[Frogfish]

Scientific American :

Nationally, as of August 2, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported that more than 164 million people have been fully vaccinated, just under half of the total population. Yet 97 percent of those who are being hospitalized for COVID-19 are unvaccinated.

The numbers underscore how reality sometimes becomes distorted in the public consciousness (they are talking to the resident nutters on here !) “Anecdotally, from talking to my friends and family and on social media, I think people are more concerned about these breakthrough infections than their prevalence would lead you to be,” says Tara Smith, a professor of epidemiology in the College of Public Health at Kent State University.

 

[Mamma Mia]

You just need to put plenty of soil in your wellies so their hind legs can't escape

That's the definition of consent, right?

 

[The Nomad]

Dr Peter Embarek finally admits that COVID patient zero may have been a Wuhan lab worker.

Just need to confirm it's a man made virus.

 

[StevieM]

Dr Peter Embarek finally admits that COVID patient zero may have been a Wuhan lab worker.

Just need to confirm it's a man made virus.

Great... I’d be off to the wet market to grab some bat & pangolin for the weekend... if I wasn’t in lockdown.