Chinese "Devil Virus" - anyone worried?

[jon545660]

But what if they fly to a country with a resistant mutation, bring it back here, and then your vaccine does nothing?

Vaccine passports for travelling to other countries that have low vaccination rates makes sense - to protect those in other countries that haven't been vaccinated.

But as vaccine resistant mutations don't actually exist so far, then really no point in having policies in place that pretend they do. Just get the vaccine manufacturers to work on updates to deal with them. Which they are.

 

[dantes]

Vaccine passports for travelling to other countries that have low vaccination rates makes sense - to protect those in other countries that haven't been vaccinated.

But as vaccine resistant mutations don't actually exist so far, then really no point in having policies in place that pretend they do. Just get the vaccine manufacturers to work on updates to deal with them. Which they are.

Their existence is inevitable, and waiting until the last minute instead of planning ahead would be silly. Even with updated vaccines they can't be distributed instantly to everyone, it'll take several months even without trade disputes over it. So at any given time some people will be clear to travel and others will not, and the only way to know is to record their individual data.

 

[Judge Jules]

Nonsense. If we get to 90%+ vaccinated then the anti-vaxers become irrelevant. The only danger is to the anti-vaxers themselves. And fuck them.

The argument for vaccine passports only makes sense if you do it now with half the country not vaccinated. Once we've all been offered the jab then it would be ludicrous to bring this in. It would be based on politics not science.

That would make sense if the vaccine gave 100% protection 100% of the time. It doesn't, in either respect. It greatly reduces the risk but never abolishes it.

Your second paragraph in particular stands the truth on its head. The scientists have been lining up to counsel caution. No politician would risk something like this if they didn't have to.

 

[dantes]

The scientists have been lining up to fearmonger more taxpayer funding out of the buffoons in government, which is a big reason why the anti-vaxxers can't be dissuaded, they have no reason to trust anything these corrupt 'scientists' say. I say let them protest and resort to terrible acts of violence because it's what our overlords deserve and have asked for.

 

[Woland]

Everyone in the most vulnerable groups have been vaccinated at least once. The science says that even if these people catch the virus they won't end up in hospital and the less vulnerable groups are much less likely to anyway. I'd have the jab today if offered it but we're already at a point where I'm not arsed because only 10 people a day have died the past two days and all the numbers are heading south, and everyone is bored out of their shit at this point and should be allowed to crack on if they feel like it

 

[jon545660]

That would make sense if the vaccine gave 100% protection 100% of the time. It doesn't, in either respect. It greatly reduces the risk but never abolishes it.

Your second paragraph in particular stands the truth on its head. The scientists have been lining up to counsel caution. No politician would risk something like this if they didn't have to.

Vaccines are 100% against serious Covid and death. Not far off 100% for mild.

Caution in opening up slowly to ensure we are right on vaccines reducing transmission, yes sure.

Again, domestic vaccine passports are politics not science.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

That would make sense if the vaccine gave 100% protection 100% of the time. It doesn't, in either respect. It greatly reduces the risk but never abolishes it.

Your second paragraph in particular stands the truth on its head. The scientists have been lining up to counsel caution. No politician would risk something like this if they didn't have to.

No vaccine does to be fair. The flu vaccine is only about 60% effective any given year, only a handful of people get the vaccine and we plough on. Anti vaxers are mental weirdos but people are entitled to not take the vaccine. Countries are going to have to open up at some stage. With a high percentage vaccinated a country needs to get on with it then really.

 

[StevieM]

Is it too much to ask people in the UK and other countries to forgo a bit of international travel for a year or so until this all settles down - and spend money in the local economy instead?

Relaxing the travel restrictions last summer was one of the major reasons the UK got into such a mess - even considering the successful vaccination rollout - opening the gates to travel again is asking for trouble.

 

[keniget]

I don’t see the issue with vaccine passports other than it’s another thing I wouldn’t trust the government to implement.

 

[Judge Jules]

No vaccine does to be fair. The flu vaccine is only about 60% effective any given year, only a handful of people get the vaccine and we plough on. Anti vaxers are mental weirdos but people are entitled to not take the vaccine. Countries are going to have to open up at some stage. With a high percentage vaccinated a country needs to get on with it then really.

Agree with quite a lot of that. What seem to me to make the situation in respect of Covid different are two things: (a) I know flu can kill on occasions, but Covid's far more deadly, and (b) ditto with overall infectiousness - flu's no slouch, but Covid's more viciously infectious still. I agree 100% that we're going to have to simply get on with it at some point (hopefully soon), but as long as Covid vaccine coverage is less than 100% I support the introduction of passports.

 

[jon545660]

UK vaccine takeup will likely be very similar to Israel below. Getting to 100% is impossible unless you're prepared to force people to have it. We don't need it to be 100%.

 

[Judge Jules]

Not to have a functioning society overall, no. Within that, though, for the moment at least I do not want you anywhere near me (or anyone else) in the mosh pit, or sitting across from me on the train, or anywhere in any confined space if you're a refuser.

 

[jon545660]

Not to have a functioning society overall, no. Within that, though, for the moment at least I do not want you anywhere near me (or anyone else) in the mosh pit, or sitting across from me on the train, or anywhere in any confined space if you're a refuser.

If you've had the jab then you're safe in that scenario.

The danger the refusers bring is the risk of more mutations that could lead to ineffective vaccines, until we've updated them.

That's not a danger in the UK anymore. If it were to happen it'll come from the countries that have infections out of control, Brazil, India etc.

 

[tomasjj]

Travel is far more than leisure, as there is so many industries now reliant on foreign workforces. Hence, these industries lobby the fuck out of the government to ensure borders are open to those who "need" it.

 

[Woland]

Is it too much to ask people in the UK and other countries to forgo a bit of international travel for a year or so until this all settles down - and spend money in the local economy instead?

Relaxing the travel restrictions last summer was one of the major reasons the UK got into such a mess - even considering the successful vaccination rollout - opening the gates to travel again is asking for trouble.

Totally. International travel should be off the table until the world has been sorted out.

 

[Woland]

Travel is far more than leisure, as there is so many industries now reliant on foreign workforces. Hence, these industries lobby the fuck out of the government to ensure borders are open to those who "need" it.

Quarantine for ten days and it's sorted. Fine if you're moving country for work. Shit if you wanna go on holiday, but needs must.

 

[Woland]

Rather than think of domestic vaccine passports in an abstract ‘does that sound ok in principle’ way, we should consider it in the context of the ever more insistent war on civil liberties. The most surveilled state in the west won't be wanting this additional access to your whereabouts for pragmatic reasons.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

Agree with quite a lot of that. What seem to me to make the situation in respect of Covid different are two things: (a) I know flu can kill on occasions, but Covid's far more deadly, and (b) ditto with overall infectiousness - flu's no slouch, but Covid's more viciously infectious still. I agree 100% that we're going to have to simply get on with it at some point (hopefully soon), but as long as Covid vaccine coverage is less than 100% I support the introduction of passports.

I think it's creeping towards police state/1984 type territory. Even though I disagree with anti vaxxers I understand that some people are hesitant about a very new product, the long term effects of which are not fully understood. If you get towards the magic 80% or so vaccination coverage then the people not vaccinated should only be a danger to themselves and each other.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

Quarantine for ten days and it's sorted. Fine if you're moving country for work. Shit if you wanna go on holiday, but needs must.

That's the reason we have a useless half-arsed quarantine in Ireland. Lots of companies with political connections rely on cheap seasonal labourers and don't want to pay extra.

 

[Frogfish]

Agree with quite a lot of that. What seem to me to make the situation in respect of Covid different are two things: (a) I know flu can kill on occasions, but Covid's far more deadly, and (b) ditto with overall infectiousness - flu's no slouch, but Covid's more viciously infectious still. I agree 100% that we're going to have to simply get on with it at some point (hopefully soon), but as long as Covid vaccine coverage is less than 100% I support the introduction of passports.

Amen.

 

[Frogfish]

Quarantine for ten days and it's sorted. Fine if you're moving country for work. Shit if you wanna go on holiday, but needs must.

The travel industry is massive and a key contributor to many countries' GDP. There needs to be a way to facilitate this whilst still protecting people - the vaccination passport and enforced home quarantine (with severe penalties for breaking it) seem the best way to facilitate a return to 'normality'.

 

[Rosco]

That's the reason we have a useless half-arsed quarantine in Ireland. Lots of companies with political connections rely on cheap seasonal labourers and don't want to pay extra.

There was a bit more to it than that but that's part of it.

We have a very pro EU attorney general who is steering advice to suit his own political beliefs too.

The likes of Coveney and Varadkar are of a similar view and they both have eyes on EU jobs so they want to keep in with the EU powers by doing as little as possible to restrict free movement.

The comical aspect to it is Romanians are the largest nationality involved. The reports out of Social Welfare are that it's also Romanians who are the biggest foreign nationality in receipt of PUP.

It's amazingly stupid.

 

[Frogfish]

My mother has had her second AZ jab.

Nothing strange appears to have happened.

Both my parents have had theirs (90 & 83) and happily no adverse reactions.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

There was a bit more to it than that but that's part of it.

We have a very pro EU attorney general who is steering advice to suit his own political beliefs too.

The likes of Coveney and Varadkar are of a similar view and they both have eyes on EU jobs so they want to keep in with the EU powers by doing as little as possible to restrict free movement.

The comical aspect to it is Romanians are the largest nationality involved. The reports out of Social Welfare are that it's also Romanians who are the biggest foreign nationality in receipt of PUP.

It's amazingly stupid.

Amazingly stupid is Ireland's approach to a lot of things in a nutshell. Vaccine registration portal for healthcare staff that almost anybody can bypass, missed deliveries of vaccines, vaccines arriving without needles, double booking appointment. Some people think we have done well with COVID as most outside news comes from the US and UK. It's been a fucking shambles here, even with our ridiculously long lockdowns.

The whole EU argument is pretty moot given Austria is already on the list. Just Leo and Coveney looking ahead as you said because they're somehow not too far off losing Government to Sinn Féin

 

[jon545660]

 

[rubans]

Not sure vaccine passports domestically add much to actual supported intent. If you had the vaccine then it protects you but they don’t stop transmission. So what’s it exactly solving?
Kids aren’t going to be part of the vaccination programme for ages and nor should they be unless its really beneficial to them and tested well enough long term.
Are they going to stop families travelling or doing anything at all?
Another aspect is the enforcement aspect from local businesses, don’t get the feeling there is much appetites this from pubs etc.
It’s just going to awkward scenarios...
It hasn’t even been offered to under 50s yet so plenty to do before theb.
International passport makes sense if only to allow travel at least but will need to thought and well implemented.
Just don’t see domestic passports being implemented well enough to offer value to it’s supposed intended target at the moment without mentioning the Orwellian aspect to it.
In UK, the vaccine’s in general had amazing support and take up, forcing further controls without 100% seems unnecessary.
Not sure how many other countries have implemented this but gather it hasn’t been that successfull in Israel so far...

 

[jon545660]

but they don’t stop transmission...

Stopped reading at that point. Anti-vaxer nonsense.

The early science said we don't yet know if the vaccines stop transmission. The science has never said it doesn't stop transmission.

Newer data, particularly from Israel, is showing it does significantly stop transmission.

 

[rubans]

Stopped reading at that point. Anti-vaxer nonsense.

The early science said we don't yet know if the vaccines stop transmission. The science has never said it doesn't stop transmission.

Newer data, particularly from Israel, is showing it does significantly stop transmission.

Nothing of the sort. Total rubbish to just call something "anti vaxer" if a point of what the vaccine does is questioned, if you don't want to read it then move on. Vaccination is the only way out of this and was under the impression, they don't stop transmission as you just said, it reduces it? Well based on early studies. Not sure what your actual point is regarding that.
Point is what is the intended target of the vaccine passports? It has to be be clear before even getting buy in from all.

 

[jon545660]

Nothing of the sort. Total rubbish to just call something "anti vaxer" if a point of what the vaccine does is questioned, if you don't want to read it then move on. Vaccination is the only way out of this and was under the impression, they don't stop transmission as you just said, it reduces it? Well based on early studies. Not sure what your actual point is regarding that.
Point is what is the intended target of the vaccine passports? It has to be be clear before even getting buy in from all.

If you meant doesn't stop transmission 100% then fair enough.

Anti-vaxers are going with - doesn't stop it at all.

 

[Woland]

Only 1 in 3 people with the virus spread it. It's all about viral load. The vast majority of people who catch it after the vaccine have a very low viral load.