Borini & Assaidi VS Moses & Aspas
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Nah, I reckon Moses and Aspas would look a lot better in mid-table teams too. None of them are good enough.
Assaidi's looking at the very least a real threat late in games from the bench, we could do with that because we've got pretty much zero in the way of game changers.
Borini at least seems to have some strength on the ball and doesn't get phased by the pace of the league.
Don't think we should be counting on any of them to help us go up a level next season either way.
If Borini's happy to sit on the bench, I certainly wouldn't mind him being part of the squad. Especially because Sturridge is made of glass.
Hard to tell if the loaned players would done anything for us, given they'd have got very little in the way of playing time. From the group you mentioned I think Rodgers will keep his favoured two and ship out other two on the summer raising some funds in the process.
Its great to see our loaned players actually making an impact for a change, normally in years gone by they go on loan do nothing and then disappear wiping away any value they may have once had. Our loans this year have been relatively successful in that respect.
With Borini, Assaidi, Wisdom and Suso to come back next year we are covered in terms of squad players. Leaving us to splash whatever cash we have on genuine first teamers.
Its great to see our loaned players actually making an impact for a change, normally in years gone by they go on loan do nothing and then disappear wiping away any value they may have once had. Our loans this year have been relatively successful in that respect.
With Borini, Assaidi, Wisdom and Suso to come back next year we are covered in terms of squad players. Leaving us to splash whatever cash we have on genuine first teamers.
toughie - I think assaidi/moses is a toss up between mediocrity, whereas I think Borini would matches aspas for work rate and has more about him.
The latter four you mentioned, it'd be great to see them make it and really bolster the squad, there's Robinson too, not sure whether he'll be good enough but he's worth looking at again.
The thing Borini has on his side is age, he's still relatively young and is considered a promising player, Aspas on the other hand, while I don't think he's been given a fair crack, he has looked like he's struggling with the physical aspect (his desire has been questionable too), plus by next season he'll be 28 won't he?
That's the point of them going out on loan though so they can come back and be boss for us next season innit
Yeah Aspas doesn't particularly look like he wants to fight for a place either, he was nearly crying the last time he interviewed. Borini has a bit more promise but ultimately I don't see him cutting it, hope I'm wrong like, either way he may be a great sub to bring on for a year or so though
It's fine to say that they would bolster our squad at the moment but I don't think any will prove to be good enough for a Top 4 team ... and ultimately that is what we want, whether they are on the bench or starting.
I'd sell Assaidi, Wisdom, Borini, Aspas, Robinson and Suso (don't think he's going to make it in the PL) and buy Plank plus 1 with those funds then fill any remaining squad slots with some of our best youngsters (Ibe, Smith, Rossiter etc). This quite apart from another 2 major signings I expect in the Summer.
I'd sell Assaidi, Wisdom, Borini, Aspas, Robinson and Suso (don't think he's going to make it in the PL) and buy Plank plus 1 with those funds then fill any remaining squad slots with some of our best youngsters (Ibe, Smith, Rossiter etc). This quite apart from another 2 major signings I expect in the Summer.
You want to sell Wisdom, Robinson and Suso - and then fill in the squad with our 'best youngsters'? Why sell any of them - bar maybe Suso - if they can contribute and save us wasting money on loans like ShiteLB?
Would be madness to sell Suso and Wisdom, those 2 have massive potential for us, maybe it won't work out for them but you dont jib off young players like that just for the sake of it.
Simple. I don't think Wisdom or Suso will ever be good enough for a Top 4 team. Suso is better off in Spain and Wisdom at a mid-table team, they do not have massive potential at all.
Did I say anything about Shite loans such as Moses/Cisshoko ? No, I don't think I did.
Did I say anything about Shite loans such as Moses/Cisshoko ? No, I don't think I did.
The nice thing about keeping youth/fringe players on is that they won't be commanding big wages. We're going to need some squad depth, I don't see why we need to sell any of those players if we can just hold on to them as depth.
Borini might command a nice fee back to Italy, but I would only sell him if the money's right. It's going to cost us a fair bit to get the same quality players, between fee and higher wages. Change for the sake of change is unnecessary, and a bench with Assaidi/Borini/Wisdom is about as good as we'll ever get bar mass cash infusion.
We need to stop trying to be "top four" material, that's not a tier of club anymore. There's City and Chelsea competing for the title, and then there's us, Arsenal, Spurs, United, and a flavor of the month club competing for the last two spots. We'll never be able to match the depth of the oil clubs, but I think the quality of player we need drops dramatically when compared to these "second tier" sides.
Borini might command a nice fee back to Italy, but I would only sell him if the money's right. It's going to cost us a fair bit to get the same quality players, between fee and higher wages. Change for the sake of change is unnecessary, and a bench with Assaidi/Borini/Wisdom is about as good as we'll ever get bar mass cash infusion.
We need to stop trying to be "top four" material, that's not a tier of club anymore. There's City and Chelsea competing for the title, and then there's us, Arsenal, Spurs, United, and a flavor of the month club competing for the last two spots. We'll never be able to match the depth of the oil clubs, but I think the quality of player we need drops dramatically when compared to these "second tier" sides.
Suso's going to make you eat your words Froggy.
He's very very talented and can definitely make it for us.
Just needs to build up his strength, and at 20 (I think) he's got more than enough time.
He's very very talented and can definitely make it for us.
Just needs to build up his strength, and at 20 (I think) he's got more than enough time.
I think you're going to have to reign in your expectations somewhat. The likes of John O'Shea and Wes Brown were never particularly good but filled in as required for Utd. We are not going to get anywhere near the squads Chelsea and City can build. You can accommodate a couple 'lesser' players in a well put together side.
As for the players in question, I think Wisdom and Suso can be part of the squad. They have the attributes to fit in. A couple of the youngsters you have listed have no greater talent or potential so is at odds slightly with what you're saying.
I've yet to see a hint of a Premiership footballer in Aspas so it goes without saying that I rate Borini higher than him. But if were going to better for us this season it wholly depends on how much football Brendan Rodgers would have been prepared to give him. If he was prepared to pull of Suarez or Sturridge when the game was won then I reckon the amount of minutes he would have gained would have allowed him to develop here under our style of play rather than Sunderland's.
In terms of level there's little difference between Moses & Assaidi and I don't think either deal has affected us for better or for worse.
In terms of level there's little difference between Moses & Assaidi and I don't think either deal has affected us for better or for worse.
Ha... So Moses and Aspas are better bets then? Wanna elaborate? I know you said from the off that Assaidi is shit, and obviously you can never, ever go back on that, and I'm not really saying either of them are great players or World beaters, but the straight question about whether we'd get more from Borini and Assaidi, than we currently do from Moses and Aspas?
You love Borini anyway, so give me some. Borini's looking sharper and sharper and more influential, while Assaidi is giving Stoke those legs against tired centre halves, he's direct and a nuisance, not exactly subtle and a bit of a luxury player, but a threat none the less. You know it makes sense x
Well we won't be if our management think like you do, Top 4 meaning we consistently finish above 2 of Arsenal/Spurs/United/Everton. We can consistently become a Top 4 team if the players/system/management work in tandem and are of high enough quality. I think the management (FSG/Rodgers) meet that expectation, the system can with a little more tinkering and the players can too if we can retain Suarez this Summer and add the quality I alluded to above.
I hope you're right mate ! I really like him, both as a person (esp. his love of the club) and as a footballer. He just seems to me to be a little light for the PL. Hope I'm 100% wrong on this, and Borini too, but I don't think I am.
Will that depends what my expectations are Keni (I've outlined them in my reply to Whirly above). I am not at all expecting top quality players in every position, to the contrary of most on here I think that any 2 from Enrique/Johnson and Flanno are good enough for our FBs, Ming is good enough, our CBs are good enough (wouldn't mind moving Agger on and buying better cover), however we do need more cover up front and in midfield, but we aren't far away.
Wisdom has never impressed me. He's slow to turn, not a good header of the ball for a CB and doesn't read the game well (positioning, easy to get past). Suso I really like but he just seems to me to be a little too lightweight for the PL.
We have hardly seen any of those youngsters in first team action (which can't be said for those I suggested we sell) and until they see more pitch time I don't think anyone can call that, some youngsters will excel given a chance (Sterling) so any one of those may yet do the same.
Wisdom will be miles better than O'Shea
Anyway all these kids are on lowish wages compared to bringing in the Degens of this world. We need a large ish for CL so it's best to keep players who can easily reintegrate with the squad than buy 8 players in the summer again and do a Spurs
Anyway all these kids are on lowish wages compared to bringing in the Degens of this world. We need a large ish for CL so it's best to keep players who can easily reintegrate with the squad than buy 8 players in the summer again and do a Spurs
Well Assaidi - if he'd stayed - wouldn't have played. Brodge doesn't rate him, and he never got near the bench when he was with us, so it's fairly moot. He wouldn't have got any game time.
And Borini yeah I don't mind him, but how much gametime would he have got? The odd sub appearance I guess, and a couple of goals - which is what Moses has largely got.
It'd make fuck all difference really.
Point me back to where you said that last August will you?
Taking about now. Hindsight's a wonderful thing.
Surprised by your reply to the original question in this thread because i'm nearly sure you were saying you thought Borini could be worth persisting with a few months back.
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