I don't have a problem with riera so I'm not having it that I have an aggenda but frankly four goals all season from an attacking position whilst being a regular in the team tells it's own story. I expect that return from a center back.
BENITEZ BACKS BABEL TO STEP UP
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[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910160#msg910160 date=1248258121]
I don't have a problem with riera so I'm not having it that I have an aggenda but frankly four goals all season from an attacking position whilst being a regular in the team tells it's own story. I expect that return from a center back.
[/quote]
Some expectations you have.
Riera had a good first season and if he performs consistently like he was doing in the latter part of the season then he's a very good option to have. If he is a regular starter I expect him to get 6-8 league goals.
That said I do hope we get Silva.
I don't have a problem with riera so I'm not having it that I have an aggenda but frankly four goals all season from an attacking position whilst being a regular in the team tells it's own story. I expect that return from a center back.
[/quote]
Some expectations you have.
Riera had a good first season and if he performs consistently like he was doing in the latter part of the season then he's a very good option to have. If he is a regular starter I expect him to get 6-8 league goals.
That said I do hope we get Silva.
This seems to be a Riera v Babel thread now.
Why so? Everyone agree Babel is not a left winger, but a forward.
Anyway if that is the discussion I would add this. Rieras goal threat has been brought into question, not unreasonably. According to my figures he has scored 3 in 28, whereas Babel has scored 7 in 56, is he a centre back too? , that is around the same return. Babel has also been played in a strikers role on occasions, where Riera has not.
Riera looks to have some sort of footballing brain to him, is not spectacular, but reliable. The same can not be said about Babel.
Babel has had two seasons to impress, and has failed thus far. Riera only one.
I am relatively happy with Rieras debut season, he did tail off from a very bright start, but I am prepared to give him another season to see if he improves.
Babel , when he had chances to impress last year failed miserably. It is of course difficult coming in and out of the team, but at least he could look like he is trying.
Riera it should also be noted has had to play in front of at least one left-back who can't defend, which does not help a wingers cause.
regards
Why so? Everyone agree Babel is not a left winger, but a forward.
Anyway if that is the discussion I would add this. Rieras goal threat has been brought into question, not unreasonably. According to my figures he has scored 3 in 28, whereas Babel has scored 7 in 56, is he a centre back too? , that is around the same return. Babel has also been played in a strikers role on occasions, where Riera has not.
Riera looks to have some sort of footballing brain to him, is not spectacular, but reliable. The same can not be said about Babel.
Babel has had two seasons to impress, and has failed thus far. Riera only one.
I am relatively happy with Rieras debut season, he did tail off from a very bright start, but I am prepared to give him another season to see if he improves.
Babel , when he had chances to impress last year failed miserably. It is of course difficult coming in and out of the team, but at least he could look like he is trying.
Riera it should also be noted has had to play in front of at least one left-back who can't defend, which does not help a wingers cause.
regards
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=34828.msg910162#msg910162 date=1248258945]
This seems to be a Riera v Babel thread now.
Why so? Everyone agree Babel is not a left winger, but a forward.
Anyway if that is the discussion I would add this. Rieras goal threat has been brought into question, not unreasonably. According to my figures he has scored 3 in 28, whereas Babel has scored 7 in 56, is he a centre back too? , that is around the same return. Babel has also been played in a strikers role on occasions, where Riera has not.
Riera looks to have some sort of footballing brain to him, is not spectacular, but reliable. The same can not be said about Babel.
Babel has had two seasons to impress, and has failed thus far. Riera only one.
I am relatively happy with Rieras debut season, he did tail off from a very bright start, but I am prepared to give him another season to see if he improves.
Babel , when he had chances to impress last year failed miserably. It is of course difficult coming in and out of the team, but at least he could look like he is trying.
Riera it should also be noted has had to play in front of at least one left-back who can't defend, which does not help a wingers cause.
regards
[/quote]
all fair points except riera has had far more starts and consistant starts at that. it's far harder to gain any sort of momentum from the bench or fleeting appearances here and there. giving someone 70 minutes to influence a game and giving someone 20 minutes to influence the game, in all likelihood a game we are chasing or trying to close out or trying to break down a resolute defense with everyone behind the ball is a difficult ask.
This seems to be a Riera v Babel thread now.
Why so? Everyone agree Babel is not a left winger, but a forward.
Anyway if that is the discussion I would add this. Rieras goal threat has been brought into question, not unreasonably. According to my figures he has scored 3 in 28, whereas Babel has scored 7 in 56, is he a centre back too? , that is around the same return. Babel has also been played in a strikers role on occasions, where Riera has not.
Riera looks to have some sort of footballing brain to him, is not spectacular, but reliable. The same can not be said about Babel.
Babel has had two seasons to impress, and has failed thus far. Riera only one.
I am relatively happy with Rieras debut season, he did tail off from a very bright start, but I am prepared to give him another season to see if he improves.
Babel , when he had chances to impress last year failed miserably. It is of course difficult coming in and out of the team, but at least he could look like he is trying.
Riera it should also be noted has had to play in front of at least one left-back who can't defend, which does not help a wingers cause.
regards
[/quote]
all fair points except riera has had far more starts and consistant starts at that. it's far harder to gain any sort of momentum from the bench or fleeting appearances here and there. giving someone 70 minutes to influence a game and giving someone 20 minutes to influence the game, in all likelihood a game we are chasing or trying to close out or trying to break down a resolute defense with everyone behind the ball is a difficult ask.
Hmm haven't a lot of Babel's goals come when he's been brought on as a sub whereas he has been largely useless when he's started?
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910172#msg910172 date=1248259939]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=34828.msg910162#msg910162 date=1248258945]
This seems to be a Riera v Babel thread now.
Why so? Everyone agree Babel is not a left winger, but a forward.
Anyway if that is the discussion I would add this. Rieras goal threat has been brought into question, not unreasonably. According to my figures he has scored 3 in 28, whereas Babel has scored 7 in 56, is he a centre back too? , that is around the same return. Babel has also been played in a strikers role on occasions, where Riera has not.
Riera looks to have some sort of footballing brain to him, is not spectacular, but reliable. The same can not be said about Babel.
Babel has had two seasons to impress, and has failed thus far. Riera only one.
I am relatively happy with Rieras debut season, he did tail off from a very bright start, but I am prepared to give him another season to see if he improves.
Babel , when he had chances to impress last year failed miserably. It is of course difficult coming in and out of the team, but at least he could look like he is trying.
Riera it should also be noted has had to play in front of at least one left-back who can't defend, which does not help a wingers cause.
regards
[/quote]
all fair points except riera has had far more starts and consistant starts at that. it's far harder to gain any sort of momentum from the bench or fleeting appearances here and there. giving someone 70 minutes to influence a game and giving someone 20 minutes to influence the game, in all likelihood a game we are chasing or trying to close out or trying to break down a resolute defense with everyone behind the ball is a difficult ask.
[/quote]
You are Babel's over protective and slightly drunk mum and I claim my 5 pounds. 🙂
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=34828.msg910162#msg910162 date=1248258945]
This seems to be a Riera v Babel thread now.
Why so? Everyone agree Babel is not a left winger, but a forward.
Anyway if that is the discussion I would add this. Rieras goal threat has been brought into question, not unreasonably. According to my figures he has scored 3 in 28, whereas Babel has scored 7 in 56, is he a centre back too? , that is around the same return. Babel has also been played in a strikers role on occasions, where Riera has not.
Riera looks to have some sort of footballing brain to him, is not spectacular, but reliable. The same can not be said about Babel.
Babel has had two seasons to impress, and has failed thus far. Riera only one.
I am relatively happy with Rieras debut season, he did tail off from a very bright start, but I am prepared to give him another season to see if he improves.
Babel , when he had chances to impress last year failed miserably. It is of course difficult coming in and out of the team, but at least he could look like he is trying.
Riera it should also be noted has had to play in front of at least one left-back who can't defend, which does not help a wingers cause.
regards
[/quote]
all fair points except riera has had far more starts and consistant starts at that. it's far harder to gain any sort of momentum from the bench or fleeting appearances here and there. giving someone 70 minutes to influence a game and giving someone 20 minutes to influence the game, in all likelihood a game we are chasing or trying to close out or trying to break down a resolute defense with everyone behind the ball is a difficult ask.
[/quote]
You are Babel's over protective and slightly drunk mum and I claim my 5 pounds. 🙂
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910175#msg910175 date=1248260252]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910172#msg910172 date=1248259939]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=34828.msg910162#msg910162 date=1248258945]
This seems to be a Riera v Babel thread now.
Why so? Everyone agree Babel is not a left winger, but a forward.
Anyway if that is the discussion I would add this. Rieras goal threat has been brought into question, not unreasonably. According to my figures he has scored 3 in 28, whereas Babel has scored 7 in 56, is he a centre back too? , that is around the same return. Babel has also been played in a strikers role on occasions, where Riera has not.
Riera looks to have some sort of footballing brain to him, is not spectacular, but reliable. The same can not be said about Babel.
Babel has had two seasons to impress, and has failed thus far. Riera only one.
I am relatively happy with Rieras debut season, he did tail off from a very bright start, but I am prepared to give him another season to see if he improves.
Babel , when he had chances to impress last year failed miserably. It is of course difficult coming in and out of the team, but at least he could look like he is trying.
Riera it should also be noted has had to play in front of at least one left-back who can't defend, which does not help a wingers cause.
regards
[/quote]
all fair points except riera has had far more starts and consistant starts at that. it's far harder to gain any sort of momentum from the bench or fleeting appearances here and there. giving someone 70 minutes to influence a game and giving someone 20 minutes to influence the game, in all likelihood a game we are chasing or trying to close out or trying to break down a resolute defense with everyone behind the ball is a difficult ask.
[/quote]
You are Babel's over protective and slightly drunk mum and I claim my 5 pounds. 🙂
[/quote]
just adding balance to the 90:10 ratio that hate him 🙂
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910172#msg910172 date=1248259939]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=34828.msg910162#msg910162 date=1248258945]
This seems to be a Riera v Babel thread now.
Why so? Everyone agree Babel is not a left winger, but a forward.
Anyway if that is the discussion I would add this. Rieras goal threat has been brought into question, not unreasonably. According to my figures he has scored 3 in 28, whereas Babel has scored 7 in 56, is he a centre back too? , that is around the same return. Babel has also been played in a strikers role on occasions, where Riera has not.
Riera looks to have some sort of footballing brain to him, is not spectacular, but reliable. The same can not be said about Babel.
Babel has had two seasons to impress, and has failed thus far. Riera only one.
I am relatively happy with Rieras debut season, he did tail off from a very bright start, but I am prepared to give him another season to see if he improves.
Babel , when he had chances to impress last year failed miserably. It is of course difficult coming in and out of the team, but at least he could look like he is trying.
Riera it should also be noted has had to play in front of at least one left-back who can't defend, which does not help a wingers cause.
regards
[/quote]
all fair points except riera has had far more starts and consistant starts at that. it's far harder to gain any sort of momentum from the bench or fleeting appearances here and there. giving someone 70 minutes to influence a game and giving someone 20 minutes to influence the game, in all likelihood a game we are chasing or trying to close out or trying to break down a resolute defense with everyone behind the ball is a difficult ask.
[/quote]
You are Babel's over protective and slightly drunk mum and I claim my 5 pounds. 🙂
[/quote]
just adding balance to the 90:10 ratio that hate him 🙂
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910178#msg910178 date=1248260417]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910175#msg910175 date=1248260252]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910172#msg910172 date=1248259939]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=34828.msg910162#msg910162 date=1248258945]
This seems to be a Riera v Babel thread now.
Why so? Everyone agree Babel is not a left winger, but a forward.
Anyway if that is the discussion I would add this. Rieras goal threat has been brought into question, not unreasonably. According to my figures he has scored 3 in 28, whereas Babel has scored 7 in 56, is he a centre back too? , that is around the same return. Babel has also been played in a strikers role on occasions, where Riera has not.
Riera looks to have some sort of footballing brain to him, is not spectacular, but reliable. The same can not be said about Babel.
Babel has had two seasons to impress, and has failed thus far. Riera only one.
I am relatively happy with Rieras debut season, he did tail off from a very bright start, but I am prepared to give him another season to see if he improves.
Babel , when he had chances to impress last year failed miserably. It is of course difficult coming in and out of the team, but at least he could look like he is trying.
Riera it should also be noted has had to play in front of at least one left-back who can't defend, which does not help a wingers cause.
regards
[/quote]
all fair points except riera has had far more starts and consistant starts at that. it's far harder to gain any sort of momentum from the bench or fleeting appearances here and there. giving someone 70 minutes to influence a game and giving someone 20 minutes to influence the game, in all likelihood a game we are chasing or trying to close out or trying to break down a resolute defense with everyone behind the ball is a difficult ask.
[/quote]
You are Babel's over protective and slightly drunk mum and I claim my 5 pounds. 🙂
[/quote]
just adding balance to the 90:10 ratio that hate him 🙂
[/quote]
Mate, I don't think anyone hates him, they just haven't seen anything that says he's going to be able to consistently win matches for us given the way we play.
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910175#msg910175 date=1248260252]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910172#msg910172 date=1248259939]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=34828.msg910162#msg910162 date=1248258945]
This seems to be a Riera v Babel thread now.
Why so? Everyone agree Babel is not a left winger, but a forward.
Anyway if that is the discussion I would add this. Rieras goal threat has been brought into question, not unreasonably. According to my figures he has scored 3 in 28, whereas Babel has scored 7 in 56, is he a centre back too? , that is around the same return. Babel has also been played in a strikers role on occasions, where Riera has not.
Riera looks to have some sort of footballing brain to him, is not spectacular, but reliable. The same can not be said about Babel.
Babel has had two seasons to impress, and has failed thus far. Riera only one.
I am relatively happy with Rieras debut season, he did tail off from a very bright start, but I am prepared to give him another season to see if he improves.
Babel , when he had chances to impress last year failed miserably. It is of course difficult coming in and out of the team, but at least he could look like he is trying.
Riera it should also be noted has had to play in front of at least one left-back who can't defend, which does not help a wingers cause.
regards
[/quote]
all fair points except riera has had far more starts and consistant starts at that. it's far harder to gain any sort of momentum from the bench or fleeting appearances here and there. giving someone 70 minutes to influence a game and giving someone 20 minutes to influence the game, in all likelihood a game we are chasing or trying to close out or trying to break down a resolute defense with everyone behind the ball is a difficult ask.
[/quote]
You are Babel's over protective and slightly drunk mum and I claim my 5 pounds. 🙂
[/quote]
just adding balance to the 90:10 ratio that hate him 🙂
[/quote]
Mate, I don't think anyone hates him, they just haven't seen anything that says he's going to be able to consistently win matches for us given the way we play.
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910182#msg910182 date=1248260585]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910178#msg910178 date=1248260417]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910175#msg910175 date=1248260252]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910172#msg910172 date=1248259939]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=34828.msg910162#msg910162 date=1248258945]
This seems to be a Riera v Babel thread now.
Why so? Everyone agree Babel is not a left winger, but a forward.
Anyway if that is the discussion I would add this. Rieras goal threat has been brought into question, not unreasonably. According to my figures he has scored 3 in 28, whereas Babel has scored 7 in 56, is he a centre back too? , that is around the same return. Babel has also been played in a strikers role on occasions, where Riera has not.
Riera looks to have some sort of footballing brain to him, is not spectacular, but reliable. The same can not be said about Babel.
Babel has had two seasons to impress, and has failed thus far. Riera only one.
I am relatively happy with Rieras debut season, he did tail off from a very bright start, but I am prepared to give him another season to see if he improves.
Babel , when he had chances to impress last year failed miserably. It is of course difficult coming in and out of the team, but at least he could look like he is trying.
Riera it should also be noted has had to play in front of at least one left-back who can't defend, which does not help a wingers cause.
regards
[/quote]
all fair points except riera has had far more starts and consistant starts at that. it's far harder to gain any sort of momentum from the bench or fleeting appearances here and there. giving someone 70 minutes to influence a game and giving someone 20 minutes to influence the game, in all likelihood a game we are chasing or trying to close out or trying to break down a resolute defense with everyone behind the ball is a difficult ask.
[/quote]
You are Babel's over protective and slightly drunk mum and I claim my 5 pounds. 🙂
[/quote]
just adding balance to the 90:10 ratio that hate him 🙂
[/quote]
Mate, I don't think anyone hates him, they just haven't seen anything that says he's going to be able to consistently win matches for us given the way we play.
[/quote]
very few players in our squad consistantly win games for us (by scoring goals) regardless of how we play.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910178#msg910178 date=1248260417]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910175#msg910175 date=1248260252]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910172#msg910172 date=1248259939]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=34828.msg910162#msg910162 date=1248258945]
This seems to be a Riera v Babel thread now.
Why so? Everyone agree Babel is not a left winger, but a forward.
Anyway if that is the discussion I would add this. Rieras goal threat has been brought into question, not unreasonably. According to my figures he has scored 3 in 28, whereas Babel has scored 7 in 56, is he a centre back too? , that is around the same return. Babel has also been played in a strikers role on occasions, where Riera has not.
Riera looks to have some sort of footballing brain to him, is not spectacular, but reliable. The same can not be said about Babel.
Babel has had two seasons to impress, and has failed thus far. Riera only one.
I am relatively happy with Rieras debut season, he did tail off from a very bright start, but I am prepared to give him another season to see if he improves.
Babel , when he had chances to impress last year failed miserably. It is of course difficult coming in and out of the team, but at least he could look like he is trying.
Riera it should also be noted has had to play in front of at least one left-back who can't defend, which does not help a wingers cause.
regards
[/quote]
all fair points except riera has had far more starts and consistant starts at that. it's far harder to gain any sort of momentum from the bench or fleeting appearances here and there. giving someone 70 minutes to influence a game and giving someone 20 minutes to influence the game, in all likelihood a game we are chasing or trying to close out or trying to break down a resolute defense with everyone behind the ball is a difficult ask.
[/quote]
You are Babel's over protective and slightly drunk mum and I claim my 5 pounds. 🙂
[/quote]
just adding balance to the 90:10 ratio that hate him 🙂
[/quote]
Mate, I don't think anyone hates him, they just haven't seen anything that says he's going to be able to consistently win matches for us given the way we play.
[/quote]
very few players in our squad consistantly win games for us (by scoring goals) regardless of how we play.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910188#msg910188 date=1248261272]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910182#msg910182 date=1248260585]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910178#msg910178 date=1248260417]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910175#msg910175 date=1248260252]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910172#msg910172 date=1248259939]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=34828.msg910162#msg910162 date=1248258945]
This seems to be a Riera v Babel thread now.
Why so? Everyone agree Babel is not a left winger, but a forward.
Anyway if that is the discussion I would add this. Rieras goal threat has been brought into question, not unreasonably. According to my figures he has scored 3 in 28, whereas Babel has scored 7 in 56, is he a centre back too? , that is around the same return. Babel has also been played in a strikers role on occasions, where Riera has not.
Riera looks to have some sort of footballing brain to him, is not spectacular, but reliable. The same can not be said about Babel.
Babel has had two seasons to impress, and has failed thus far. Riera only one.
I am relatively happy with Rieras debut season, he did tail off from a very bright start, but I am prepared to give him another season to see if he improves.
Babel , when he had chances to impress last year failed miserably. It is of course difficult coming in and out of the team, but at least he could look like he is trying.
Riera it should also be noted has had to play in front of at least one left-back who can't defend, which does not help a wingers cause.
regards
[/quote]
all fair points except riera has had far more starts and consistant starts at that. it's far harder to gain any sort of momentum from the bench or fleeting appearances here and there. giving someone 70 minutes to influence a game and giving someone 20 minutes to influence the game, in all likelihood a game we are chasing or trying to close out or trying to break down a resolute defense with everyone behind the ball is a difficult ask.
[/quote]
You are Babel's over protective and slightly drunk mum and I claim my 5 pounds. 🙂
[/quote]
just adding balance to the 90:10 ratio that hate him 🙂
[/quote]
Mate, I don't think anyone hates him, they just haven't seen anything that says he's going to be able to consistently win matches for us given the way we play.
[/quote]
very few players in our squad consistantly win games for us (by scoring goals) regardless of how we play.
[/quote]
By the same token, very few players consistently undermine our attempts to win games by giving the ball away all the time.
Anyhow I think we've both added all the value we're going to until this discussion takes a turn....
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910182#msg910182 date=1248260585]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910178#msg910178 date=1248260417]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910175#msg910175 date=1248260252]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910172#msg910172 date=1248259939]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=34828.msg910162#msg910162 date=1248258945]
This seems to be a Riera v Babel thread now.
Why so? Everyone agree Babel is not a left winger, but a forward.
Anyway if that is the discussion I would add this. Rieras goal threat has been brought into question, not unreasonably. According to my figures he has scored 3 in 28, whereas Babel has scored 7 in 56, is he a centre back too? , that is around the same return. Babel has also been played in a strikers role on occasions, where Riera has not.
Riera looks to have some sort of footballing brain to him, is not spectacular, but reliable. The same can not be said about Babel.
Babel has had two seasons to impress, and has failed thus far. Riera only one.
I am relatively happy with Rieras debut season, he did tail off from a very bright start, but I am prepared to give him another season to see if he improves.
Babel , when he had chances to impress last year failed miserably. It is of course difficult coming in and out of the team, but at least he could look like he is trying.
Riera it should also be noted has had to play in front of at least one left-back who can't defend, which does not help a wingers cause.
regards
[/quote]
all fair points except riera has had far more starts and consistant starts at that. it's far harder to gain any sort of momentum from the bench or fleeting appearances here and there. giving someone 70 minutes to influence a game and giving someone 20 minutes to influence the game, in all likelihood a game we are chasing or trying to close out or trying to break down a resolute defense with everyone behind the ball is a difficult ask.
[/quote]
You are Babel's over protective and slightly drunk mum and I claim my 5 pounds. 🙂
[/quote]
just adding balance to the 90:10 ratio that hate him 🙂
[/quote]
Mate, I don't think anyone hates him, they just haven't seen anything that says he's going to be able to consistently win matches for us given the way we play.
[/quote]
very few players in our squad consistantly win games for us (by scoring goals) regardless of how we play.
[/quote]
By the same token, very few players consistently undermine our attempts to win games by giving the ball away all the time.
Anyhow I think we've both added all the value we're going to until this discussion takes a turn....
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910191#msg910191 date=1248261489]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910188#msg910188 date=1248261272]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910182#msg910182 date=1248260585]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910178#msg910178 date=1248260417]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910175#msg910175 date=1248260252]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910172#msg910172 date=1248259939]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=34828.msg910162#msg910162 date=1248258945]
This seems to be a Riera v Babel thread now.
Why so? Everyone agree Babel is not a left winger, but a forward.
Anyway if that is the discussion I would add this. Rieras goal threat has been brought into question, not unreasonably. According to my figures he has scored 3 in 28, whereas Babel has scored 7 in 56, is he a centre back too? , that is around the same return. Babel has also been played in a strikers role on occasions, where Riera has not.
Riera looks to have some sort of footballing brain to him, is not spectacular, but reliable. The same can not be said about Babel.
Babel has had two seasons to impress, and has failed thus far. Riera only one.
I am relatively happy with Rieras debut season, he did tail off from a very bright start, but I am prepared to give him another season to see if he improves.
Babel , when he had chances to impress last year failed miserably. It is of course difficult coming in and out of the team, but at least he could look like he is trying.
Riera it should also be noted has had to play in front of at least one left-back who can't defend, which does not help a wingers cause.
regards
[/quote]
all fair points except riera has had far more starts and consistant starts at that. it's far harder to gain any sort of momentum from the bench or fleeting appearances here and there. giving someone 70 minutes to influence a game and giving someone 20 minutes to influence the game, in all likelihood a game we are chasing or trying to close out or trying to break down a resolute defense with everyone behind the ball is a difficult ask.
[/quote]
You are Babel's over protective and slightly drunk mum and I claim my 5 pounds. 🙂
[/quote]
just adding balance to the 90:10 ratio that hate him 🙂
[/quote]
Mate, I don't think anyone hates him, they just haven't seen anything that says he's going to be able to consistently win matches for us given the way we play.
[/quote]
very few players in our squad consistantly win games for us (by scoring goals) regardless of how we play.
[/quote]
By the same token, very few players consistently undermine our attempts to win games by giving the ball away all the time.
Anyhow I think we've both added all the value we're going to until this discussion takes a turn....
[/quote]
each to their own but I think there should be a balance between 'controlling the game' and unpredictability. we controlled pretty much every game at anfield but far to many teams escaped with a point. the bottom is goals win games and reira (the regualar starter) scored far too few, although he did add balance, hooray!!
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910188#msg910188 date=1248261272]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910182#msg910182 date=1248260585]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910178#msg910178 date=1248260417]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910175#msg910175 date=1248260252]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910172#msg910172 date=1248259939]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=34828.msg910162#msg910162 date=1248258945]
This seems to be a Riera v Babel thread now.
Why so? Everyone agree Babel is not a left winger, but a forward.
Anyway if that is the discussion I would add this. Rieras goal threat has been brought into question, not unreasonably. According to my figures he has scored 3 in 28, whereas Babel has scored 7 in 56, is he a centre back too? , that is around the same return. Babel has also been played in a strikers role on occasions, where Riera has not.
Riera looks to have some sort of footballing brain to him, is not spectacular, but reliable. The same can not be said about Babel.
Babel has had two seasons to impress, and has failed thus far. Riera only one.
I am relatively happy with Rieras debut season, he did tail off from a very bright start, but I am prepared to give him another season to see if he improves.
Babel , when he had chances to impress last year failed miserably. It is of course difficult coming in and out of the team, but at least he could look like he is trying.
Riera it should also be noted has had to play in front of at least one left-back who can't defend, which does not help a wingers cause.
regards
[/quote]
all fair points except riera has had far more starts and consistant starts at that. it's far harder to gain any sort of momentum from the bench or fleeting appearances here and there. giving someone 70 minutes to influence a game and giving someone 20 minutes to influence the game, in all likelihood a game we are chasing or trying to close out or trying to break down a resolute defense with everyone behind the ball is a difficult ask.
[/quote]
You are Babel's over protective and slightly drunk mum and I claim my 5 pounds. 🙂
[/quote]
just adding balance to the 90:10 ratio that hate him 🙂
[/quote]
Mate, I don't think anyone hates him, they just haven't seen anything that says he's going to be able to consistently win matches for us given the way we play.
[/quote]
very few players in our squad consistantly win games for us (by scoring goals) regardless of how we play.
[/quote]
By the same token, very few players consistently undermine our attempts to win games by giving the ball away all the time.
Anyhow I think we've both added all the value we're going to until this discussion takes a turn....
[/quote]
each to their own but I think there should be a balance between 'controlling the game' and unpredictability. we controlled pretty much every game at anfield but far to many teams escaped with a point. the bottom is goals win games and reira (the regualar starter) scored far too few, although he did add balance, hooray!!
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910195#msg910195 date=1248261661]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910191#msg910191 date=1248261489]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910188#msg910188 date=1248261272]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910182#msg910182 date=1248260585]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910178#msg910178 date=1248260417]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910175#msg910175 date=1248260252]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910172#msg910172 date=1248259939]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=34828.msg910162#msg910162 date=1248258945]
This seems to be a Riera v Babel thread now.
Why so? Everyone agree Babel is not a left winger, but a forward.
Anyway if that is the discussion I would add this. Rieras goal threat has been brought into question, not unreasonably. According to my figures he has scored 3 in 28, whereas Babel has scored 7 in 56, is he a centre back too? , that is around the same return. Babel has also been played in a strikers role on occasions, where Riera has not.
Riera looks to have some sort of footballing brain to him, is not spectacular, but reliable. The same can not be said about Babel.
Babel has had two seasons to impress, and has failed thus far. Riera only one.
I am relatively happy with Rieras debut season, he did tail off from a very bright start, but I am prepared to give him another season to see if he improves.
Babel , when he had chances to impress last year failed miserably. It is of course difficult coming in and out of the team, but at least he could look like he is trying.
Riera it should also be noted has had to play in front of at least one left-back who can't defend, which does not help a wingers cause.
regards
[/quote]
all fair points except riera has had far more starts and consistant starts at that. it's far harder to gain any sort of momentum from the bench or fleeting appearances here and there. giving someone 70 minutes to influence a game and giving someone 20 minutes to influence the game, in all likelihood a game we are chasing or trying to close out or trying to break down a resolute defense with everyone behind the ball is a difficult ask.
[/quote]
You are Babel's over protective and slightly drunk mum and I claim my 5 pounds. 🙂
[/quote]
just adding balance to the 90:10 ratio that hate him 🙂
[/quote]
Mate, I don't think anyone hates him, they just haven't seen anything that says he's going to be able to consistently win matches for us given the way we play.
[/quote]
very few players in our squad consistantly win games for us (by scoring goals) regardless of how we play.
[/quote]
By the same token, very few players consistently undermine our attempts to win games by giving the ball away all the time.
Anyhow I think we've both added all the value we're going to until this discussion takes a turn....
[/quote]
each to their own but I think there should be a balance between 'controlling the game' and unpredictability. we controlled pretty much every game at anfield but far to many teams escaped with a point. the bottom is goals win games and reira (the regualar starter) scored far too few, although he did add balance, hooray!!
[/quote]
Babel giving the ball away was very predictable.
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910191#msg910191 date=1248261489]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910188#msg910188 date=1248261272]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910182#msg910182 date=1248260585]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910178#msg910178 date=1248260417]
[quote author=drizzt link=topic=34828.msg910175#msg910175 date=1248260252]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910172#msg910172 date=1248259939]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=34828.msg910162#msg910162 date=1248258945]
This seems to be a Riera v Babel thread now.
Why so? Everyone agree Babel is not a left winger, but a forward.
Anyway if that is the discussion I would add this. Rieras goal threat has been brought into question, not unreasonably. According to my figures he has scored 3 in 28, whereas Babel has scored 7 in 56, is he a centre back too? , that is around the same return. Babel has also been played in a strikers role on occasions, where Riera has not.
Riera looks to have some sort of footballing brain to him, is not spectacular, but reliable. The same can not be said about Babel.
Babel has had two seasons to impress, and has failed thus far. Riera only one.
I am relatively happy with Rieras debut season, he did tail off from a very bright start, but I am prepared to give him another season to see if he improves.
Babel , when he had chances to impress last year failed miserably. It is of course difficult coming in and out of the team, but at least he could look like he is trying.
Riera it should also be noted has had to play in front of at least one left-back who can't defend, which does not help a wingers cause.
regards
[/quote]
all fair points except riera has had far more starts and consistant starts at that. it's far harder to gain any sort of momentum from the bench or fleeting appearances here and there. giving someone 70 minutes to influence a game and giving someone 20 minutes to influence the game, in all likelihood a game we are chasing or trying to close out or trying to break down a resolute defense with everyone behind the ball is a difficult ask.
[/quote]
You are Babel's over protective and slightly drunk mum and I claim my 5 pounds. 🙂
[/quote]
just adding balance to the 90:10 ratio that hate him 🙂
[/quote]
Mate, I don't think anyone hates him, they just haven't seen anything that says he's going to be able to consistently win matches for us given the way we play.
[/quote]
very few players in our squad consistantly win games for us (by scoring goals) regardless of how we play.
[/quote]
By the same token, very few players consistently undermine our attempts to win games by giving the ball away all the time.
Anyhow I think we've both added all the value we're going to until this discussion takes a turn....
[/quote]
each to their own but I think there should be a balance between 'controlling the game' and unpredictability. we controlled pretty much every game at anfield but far to many teams escaped with a point. the bottom is goals win games and reira (the regualar starter) scored far too few, although he did add balance, hooray!!
[/quote]
Babel giving the ball away was very predictable.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910121#msg910121 date=1248255496]
to be honest I don't think that is true because some of our best performances of the season have come with babel on the pitch. the excellent performances were despite him though, obviously.
[/quote]
Neil, you're better than that, surely? We finished 2nd, just off 1st with Riera (mainly) on the left wing.
Longterm Riera's not good enough, but he plays the possession game well, which is OUR game.
One of our best performances (our best?) was United away, regardless of Riera's showing. Babel wasn't in the side was he?
to be honest I don't think that is true because some of our best performances of the season have come with babel on the pitch. the excellent performances were despite him though, obviously.
[/quote]
Neil, you're better than that, surely? We finished 2nd, just off 1st with Riera (mainly) on the left wing.
Longterm Riera's not good enough, but he plays the possession game well, which is OUR game.
One of our best performances (our best?) was United away, regardless of Riera's showing. Babel wasn't in the side was he?
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34828.msg910228#msg910228 date=1248265559]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910121#msg910121 date=1248255496]
to be honest I don't think that is true because some of our best performances of the season have come with babel on the pitch. the excellent performances were despite him though, obviously.
[/quote]
Neil, you're better than that, surely? We finished 2nd, just off 1st with Riera (mainly) on the left wing.
Longterm Riera's not good enough, but he plays the possession game well, which is OUR game.
One of our best performances (our best?) was United away, regardless of Riera's showing. Babel wasn't in the side was he?
[/quote]
it depends how you want to look at it, we reached 2nd because of riera v we missed out on 1st because of riera. when riera was in a big slump where he wasn't contributing babel could have been given a run, he (babel) would have been hard pressed to contribute less than no goals or assists.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910121#msg910121 date=1248255496]
to be honest I don't think that is true because some of our best performances of the season have come with babel on the pitch. the excellent performances were despite him though, obviously.
[/quote]
Neil, you're better than that, surely? We finished 2nd, just off 1st with Riera (mainly) on the left wing.
Longterm Riera's not good enough, but he plays the possession game well, which is OUR game.
One of our best performances (our best?) was United away, regardless of Riera's showing. Babel wasn't in the side was he?
[/quote]
it depends how you want to look at it, we reached 2nd because of riera v we missed out on 1st because of riera. when riera was in a big slump where he wasn't contributing babel could have been given a run, he (babel) would have been hard pressed to contribute less than no goals or assists.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910238#msg910238 date=1248266643]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34828.msg910228#msg910228 date=1248265559]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910121#msg910121 date=1248255496]
to be honest I don't think that is true because some of our best performances of the season have come with babel on the pitch. the excellent performances were despite him though, obviously.
[/quote]
Neil, you're better than that, surely? We finished 2nd, just off 1st with Riera (mainly) on the left wing.
Longterm Riera's not good enough, but he plays the possession game well, which is OUR game.
One of our best performances (our best?) was United away, regardless of Riera's showing. Babel wasn't in the side was he?
[/quote]
it depends how you want to look at it, we reached 2nd because of riera v we missed out on 1st because of riera. when riera was in a big slump where he wasn't contributing babel could have been given a run, he (babel) would have been hard pressed to contribute less than no goals or assists.
[/quote]
or Yossi who is also better than Babel.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34828.msg910228#msg910228 date=1248265559]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910121#msg910121 date=1248255496]
to be honest I don't think that is true because some of our best performances of the season have come with babel on the pitch. the excellent performances were despite him though, obviously.
[/quote]
Neil, you're better than that, surely? We finished 2nd, just off 1st with Riera (mainly) on the left wing.
Longterm Riera's not good enough, but he plays the possession game well, which is OUR game.
One of our best performances (our best?) was United away, regardless of Riera's showing. Babel wasn't in the side was he?
[/quote]
it depends how you want to look at it, we reached 2nd because of riera v we missed out on 1st because of riera. when riera was in a big slump where he wasn't contributing babel could have been given a run, he (babel) would have been hard pressed to contribute less than no goals or assists.
[/quote]
or Yossi who is also better than Babel.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910238#msg910238 date=1248266643]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34828.msg910228#msg910228 date=1248265559]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910121#msg910121 date=1248255496]
to be honest I don't think that is true because some of our best performances of the season have come with babel on the pitch. the excellent performances were despite him though, obviously.
[/quote]
Neil, you're better than that, surely? We finished 2nd, just off 1st with Riera (mainly) on the left wing.
Longterm Riera's not good enough, but he plays the possession game well, which is OUR game.
One of our best performances (our best?) was United away, regardless of Riera's showing. Babel wasn't in the side was he?
[/quote]
it depends how you want to look at it, we reached 2nd because of riera v we missed out on 1st because of riera. when riera was in a big slump where he wasn't contributing babel could have been given a run, he (babel) would have been hard pressed to contribute less than no goals or assists.
[/quote]
I give up. This is like Agger all over again.
Babel hasn't shown himself as good enough, he's made massive impacts from the bench in big games, but from the start of games has nowhere near imposed himself or made nearly the same impact. You can argue he was treated poorly last season, but he hasn't really seized the opportunities he has been given, and toward the end of his first campaign he was given a reasonable enough run.
You make it sound like Babel was the reason we lost the title, and if it's not that it's Riera's fault.
This just shows up the shortcomings of your argument FOR Babel, when Agger was getting stick and not getting a look in your biggest source of argument was to slate Skrtel, now with Babel it's the turn of Riera. You can't gloss over Babel's own shortcomings by pointing out those of another player.
Many of the Babel backers have often debated whether LW is even his best position, so why we have to beat Riera to promote Babel is beyond me, Yossi's out-shined both anyway, and Kuyt's a none-mover on last seasons form, so really, it's upto Babel to show he's worthy of a place ahead of those two or three and only a fool would suggest he deserves to be in there ahead of Kuyt or Yossi, and despite the lack of goals, even Riera.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34828.msg910228#msg910228 date=1248265559]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910121#msg910121 date=1248255496]
to be honest I don't think that is true because some of our best performances of the season have come with babel on the pitch. the excellent performances were despite him though, obviously.
[/quote]
Neil, you're better than that, surely? We finished 2nd, just off 1st with Riera (mainly) on the left wing.
Longterm Riera's not good enough, but he plays the possession game well, which is OUR game.
One of our best performances (our best?) was United away, regardless of Riera's showing. Babel wasn't in the side was he?
[/quote]
it depends how you want to look at it, we reached 2nd because of riera v we missed out on 1st because of riera. when riera was in a big slump where he wasn't contributing babel could have been given a run, he (babel) would have been hard pressed to contribute less than no goals or assists.
[/quote]
I give up. This is like Agger all over again.
Babel hasn't shown himself as good enough, he's made massive impacts from the bench in big games, but from the start of games has nowhere near imposed himself or made nearly the same impact. You can argue he was treated poorly last season, but he hasn't really seized the opportunities he has been given, and toward the end of his first campaign he was given a reasonable enough run.
You make it sound like Babel was the reason we lost the title, and if it's not that it's Riera's fault.
This just shows up the shortcomings of your argument FOR Babel, when Agger was getting stick and not getting a look in your biggest source of argument was to slate Skrtel, now with Babel it's the turn of Riera. You can't gloss over Babel's own shortcomings by pointing out those of another player.
Many of the Babel backers have often debated whether LW is even his best position, so why we have to beat Riera to promote Babel is beyond me, Yossi's out-shined both anyway, and Kuyt's a none-mover on last seasons form, so really, it's upto Babel to show he's worthy of a place ahead of those two or three and only a fool would suggest he deserves to be in there ahead of Kuyt or Yossi, and despite the lack of goals, even Riera.
Hahaha Babel scores
regards
regards
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34828.msg910288#msg910288 date=1248269917]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=34828.msg910282#msg910282 date=1248269627]
Hahaha Babel scores
regards
[/quote]
Ha.. That's it then.
[/quote]
yup ... value is at an all time high, sell him!
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=34828.msg910282#msg910282 date=1248269627]
Hahaha Babel scores
regards
[/quote]
Ha.. That's it then.
[/quote]
yup ... value is at an all time high, sell him!
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=34828.msg910241#msg910241 date=1248266799]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910238#msg910238 date=1248266643]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34828.msg910228#msg910228 date=1248265559]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910121#msg910121 date=1248255496]
to be honest I don't think that is true because some of our best performances of the season have come with babel on the pitch. the excellent performances were despite him though, obviously.
[/quote]
Neil, you're better than that, surely? We finished 2nd, just off 1st with Riera (mainly) on the left wing.
Longterm Riera's not good enough, but he plays the possession game well, which is OUR game.
One of our best performances (our best?) was United away, regardless of Riera's showing. Babel wasn't in the side was he?
[/quote]
it depends how you want to look at it, we reached 2nd because of riera v we missed out on 1st because of riera. when riera was in a big slump where he wasn't contributing babel could have been given a run, he (babel) would have been hard pressed to contribute less than no goals or assists.
[/quote]
or Yossi who is also better than Babel.
[/quote]
yossi had a good second half of the season[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34828.msg910262#msg910262 date=1248268298]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910238#msg910238 date=1248266643]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34828.msg910228#msg910228 date=1248265559]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910121#msg910121 date=1248255496]
to be honest I don't think that is true because some of our best performances of the season have come with babel on the pitch. the excellent performances were despite him though, obviously.
[/quote]
Neil, you're better than that, surely? We finished 2nd, just off 1st with Riera (mainly) on the left wing.
Longterm Riera's not good enough, but he plays the possession game well, which is OUR game.
One of our best performances (our best?) was United away, regardless of Riera's showing. Babel wasn't in the side was he?
[/quote]
it depends how you want to look at it, we reached 2nd because of riera v we missed out on 1st because of riera. when riera was in a big slump where he wasn't contributing babel could have been given a run, he (babel) would have been hard pressed to contribute less than no goals or assists.
[/quote]
I give up. This is like Agger all over again.
Babel hasn't shown himself as good enough, he's made massive impacts from the bench in big games, but from the start of games has nowhere near imposed himself or made nearly the same impact. You can argue he was treated poorly last season, but he hasn't really seized the opportunities he has been given, and toward the end of his first campaign he was given a reasonable enough run.
You make it sound like Babel was the reason we lost the title, and if it's not that it's Riera's fault.
This just shows up the shortcomings of your argument FOR Babel, when Agger was getting stick and not getting a look in your biggest source of argument was to slate Skrtel, now with Babel it's the turn of Riera. You can't gloss over Babel's own shortcomings by pointing out those of another player.
Many of the Babel backers have often debated whether LW is even his best position, so why we have to beat Riera to promote Babel is beyond me, Yossi's out-shined both anyway, and Kuyt's a none-mover on last seasons form, so really, it's upto Babel to show he's worthy of a place ahead of those two or three and only a fool would suggest he deserves to be in there ahead of Kuyt or Yossi, and despite the lack of goals, even Riera.
[/quote]
as I said earlier in the thread I don't have a problem with riera (really) to be honest I don't have a problem with a lot of people in the squad (not skrtel, not lucas) but when there is out and out bashing of individuals where others who have contributed next to nothing get a free pass then I add a bit of balance. like yossi for instance, everyone has jumped on the yossi bandwagon but in the early part of the season he was fucking dogshit, usual stuff from yossi; takes one, takes two, oh look someone standing in acres of space, will he pass? of course not, attempts to take three rather than pass it, oh look yossi has lost the ball, again.
people may be sick of my going on about babel but I'm equally sick of reading what a fuck up he is when more often than not he makes a game changing contribution. OM, wins the penalty that gerrard takes to win the game, gerrard takes all the plaudits, babel's contribution forgotten about. SL, liverpool huff and puff for one full game and 80 minutes of the second game, babel comes off the bench and supplies the cross that kuyt converts saving us from a potentially DISASTEROUS penalty shoot out.
like many I'm also of the opinion babel had a poor season but I watched the season highlights and I was frankly amazed at how often babel was involved in good moves that resulted in goals often in dire circumstances. so in closing like I said earlier I am only adding balance to the sea of people who think he is shit. if people want to keep saying it I'll keep defending him until even 'I' run out of patience with him, and that hasn't happened yet.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910238#msg910238 date=1248266643]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34828.msg910228#msg910228 date=1248265559]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910121#msg910121 date=1248255496]
to be honest I don't think that is true because some of our best performances of the season have come with babel on the pitch. the excellent performances were despite him though, obviously.
[/quote]
Neil, you're better than that, surely? We finished 2nd, just off 1st with Riera (mainly) on the left wing.
Longterm Riera's not good enough, but he plays the possession game well, which is OUR game.
One of our best performances (our best?) was United away, regardless of Riera's showing. Babel wasn't in the side was he?
[/quote]
it depends how you want to look at it, we reached 2nd because of riera v we missed out on 1st because of riera. when riera was in a big slump where he wasn't contributing babel could have been given a run, he (babel) would have been hard pressed to contribute less than no goals or assists.
[/quote]
or Yossi who is also better than Babel.
[/quote]
yossi had a good second half of the season[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34828.msg910262#msg910262 date=1248268298]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910238#msg910238 date=1248266643]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34828.msg910228#msg910228 date=1248265559]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910121#msg910121 date=1248255496]
to be honest I don't think that is true because some of our best performances of the season have come with babel on the pitch. the excellent performances were despite him though, obviously.
[/quote]
Neil, you're better than that, surely? We finished 2nd, just off 1st with Riera (mainly) on the left wing.
Longterm Riera's not good enough, but he plays the possession game well, which is OUR game.
One of our best performances (our best?) was United away, regardless of Riera's showing. Babel wasn't in the side was he?
[/quote]
it depends how you want to look at it, we reached 2nd because of riera v we missed out on 1st because of riera. when riera was in a big slump where he wasn't contributing babel could have been given a run, he (babel) would have been hard pressed to contribute less than no goals or assists.
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I give up. This is like Agger all over again.
Babel hasn't shown himself as good enough, he's made massive impacts from the bench in big games, but from the start of games has nowhere near imposed himself or made nearly the same impact. You can argue he was treated poorly last season, but he hasn't really seized the opportunities he has been given, and toward the end of his first campaign he was given a reasonable enough run.
You make it sound like Babel was the reason we lost the title, and if it's not that it's Riera's fault.
This just shows up the shortcomings of your argument FOR Babel, when Agger was getting stick and not getting a look in your biggest source of argument was to slate Skrtel, now with Babel it's the turn of Riera. You can't gloss over Babel's own shortcomings by pointing out those of another player.
Many of the Babel backers have often debated whether LW is even his best position, so why we have to beat Riera to promote Babel is beyond me, Yossi's out-shined both anyway, and Kuyt's a none-mover on last seasons form, so really, it's upto Babel to show he's worthy of a place ahead of those two or three and only a fool would suggest he deserves to be in there ahead of Kuyt or Yossi, and despite the lack of goals, even Riera.
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as I said earlier in the thread I don't have a problem with riera (really) to be honest I don't have a problem with a lot of people in the squad (not skrtel, not lucas) but when there is out and out bashing of individuals where others who have contributed next to nothing get a free pass then I add a bit of balance. like yossi for instance, everyone has jumped on the yossi bandwagon but in the early part of the season he was fucking dogshit, usual stuff from yossi; takes one, takes two, oh look someone standing in acres of space, will he pass? of course not, attempts to take three rather than pass it, oh look yossi has lost the ball, again.
people may be sick of my going on about babel but I'm equally sick of reading what a fuck up he is when more often than not he makes a game changing contribution. OM, wins the penalty that gerrard takes to win the game, gerrard takes all the plaudits, babel's contribution forgotten about. SL, liverpool huff and puff for one full game and 80 minutes of the second game, babel comes off the bench and supplies the cross that kuyt converts saving us from a potentially DISASTEROUS penalty shoot out.
like many I'm also of the opinion babel had a poor season but I watched the season highlights and I was frankly amazed at how often babel was involved in good moves that resulted in goals often in dire circumstances. so in closing like I said earlier I am only adding balance to the sea of people who think he is shit. if people want to keep saying it I'll keep defending him until even 'I' run out of patience with him, and that hasn't happened yet.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910107#msg910107 date=1248254538]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=34828.msg910054#msg910054 date=1248244327]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910050#msg910050 date=1248243957]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=34828.msg910048#msg910048 date=1248243794]
I still like Babel even if I did give up on his Liverpool career middle of last season.
He was fantastic against Bolton (a) in his first season. Most of his other good work has come in flashes unfortunately and I can't see where the sudden improvement is going to come from.
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my guess s if he works on his work rate and his deire to track back it's possible he will get a longer run in the side , if that happens I can see him improving. if he is in and out of the side then he isn't going to improve, I don't see how that's possible.
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One thing's for sure - It'll definitely be Rafa's fault if he doesn't succeed here.
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you know what ryan, I don't really have a problem with lucas, I never have even with bren was ripping into him every game but the more you go on about babel and ignore all of lucas' patently obvious flaws the more I'm growing to dislike lucas. your double standards are laughable.
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So, what, if I back down on the Babel-bashing, you in turn will give me a bit of leeway on Lucas?
How gay is that?
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=34828.msg910054#msg910054 date=1248244327]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34828.msg910050#msg910050 date=1248243957]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=34828.msg910048#msg910048 date=1248243794]
I still like Babel even if I did give up on his Liverpool career middle of last season.
He was fantastic against Bolton (a) in his first season. Most of his other good work has come in flashes unfortunately and I can't see where the sudden improvement is going to come from.
[/quote]
my guess s if he works on his work rate and his deire to track back it's possible he will get a longer run in the side , if that happens I can see him improving. if he is in and out of the side then he isn't going to improve, I don't see how that's possible.
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One thing's for sure - It'll definitely be Rafa's fault if he doesn't succeed here.
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you know what ryan, I don't really have a problem with lucas, I never have even with bren was ripping into him every game but the more you go on about babel and ignore all of lucas' patently obvious flaws the more I'm growing to dislike lucas. your double standards are laughable.
[/quote]
So, what, if I back down on the Babel-bashing, you in turn will give me a bit of leeway on Lucas?
How gay is that?
T
the_khl
Guest
I'm positive Babel will have a great Season but he was so obviously second best to Riera for big chunks of last Season. To often when given a chance to shine he looked rather dim.
That's really the biggest issue with Babel to often has he failed to make the better of the chances he's been given. But with his apparent good Pre-Season form in mind, his will to succeed and the fact that he looks stronger than ever in terms of sheer physique he could give Riera a good run for his money this coming Season.
Riera has looked strong himself of late mind enjoying a rather good Confederations Cup so we could actually turn out to be well settled on the left. That would be a very pleasant surprise.
Here's hoping.
That's really the biggest issue with Babel to often has he failed to make the better of the chances he's been given. But with his apparent good Pre-Season form in mind, his will to succeed and the fact that he looks stronger than ever in terms of sheer physique he could give Riera a good run for his money this coming Season.
Riera has looked strong himself of late mind enjoying a rather good Confederations Cup so we could actually turn out to be well settled on the left. That would be a very pleasant surprise.
Here's hoping.
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=34828.msg910719#msg910719 date=1248336923]
I'm positive Babel will have a great Season but he was so obviously second best to Riera for big chunks of last Season. To often when given a chance to shine he looked rather dim.
That's really the biggest issue with Babel to often has he failed to make the better of the chances he's been given. But with his apparent good Pre-Season form in mind, his will do to good and the fact that he looks stronger than ever in terms of sheer physique he could give Riera a good run for his money this coming Season.
Riera has looked strong himself of late mind enjoying a rather good Confederations Cup so we could actually turn out to be well settled on the left. That would be a very pleasant surprise.
Here's hoping.
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I still think it will be riera starting v spurs but this season babel has GOT to push him, make it difficult to leave him out and he can do that consistantly scoring goals.
I'm positive Babel will have a great Season but he was so obviously second best to Riera for big chunks of last Season. To often when given a chance to shine he looked rather dim.
That's really the biggest issue with Babel to often has he failed to make the better of the chances he's been given. But with his apparent good Pre-Season form in mind, his will do to good and the fact that he looks stronger than ever in terms of sheer physique he could give Riera a good run for his money this coming Season.
Riera has looked strong himself of late mind enjoying a rather good Confederations Cup so we could actually turn out to be well settled on the left. That would be a very pleasant surprise.
Here's hoping.
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I still think it will be riera starting v spurs but this season babel has GOT to push him, make it difficult to leave him out and he can do that consistantly scoring goals.
I think Babel should be used as an option on the right more often. Some of his better performances, for me, have come when he's played there.
S
Squiggles
Guest
I don't disagree, but with Kuyt and Yossi both starting the season on the back of good spells, it's difficult to see how he'll get a chance out there.
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