Bankers: Reds are not in bad shape

[Rosco]

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=34395.msg896328#msg896328 date=1246117483]
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=34395.msg896298#msg896298 date=1246113093]
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=34395.msg896248#msg896248 date=1246104627]
Excellent PR by RBS and nothing more than that.... saying nice and reassuring things is always a winner. Of course they were going to refinance we are paying them 35M pounds a year in interest.

35M pounds in interest.... not paying off a debt mind you just interest on a loan.... a loan to buy the new stadium?? .... nah.... a loan to buy our fucking selves...

its a fucking disaster.

it will take more than PR.
[/quote]

This is much more than just good PR... it just goes to show that everything isn't as bad as the media wanted us to believe.

I'll go through the figures for you again in case you didn't understand. Of that £350m that G&H borrowed, only £185m was money they used to buy the club. The rest was used to pay off the existing debt that the club held and as working capital for the club. So half that money was used to fund our transfers etc.

Since G&H have been the owners, our spending on the transfer market has gone up a notch. We're not at a level where we can spend £40m on one player but we're a long way up from when Moores has to lend the club the £9m to buy Kuyt.

Everything isn't rosy but it's a long way from a 'fucking disaster' too. Just don't believe the media hype.
[/quote]

I understood that its a fair ol crock of shite and that whether the press is exaggerrating or not the people who bought us did so with whopping expensive loans that we ourselves are paying. KOp holdings only asset is the club so to suggest that in some way we are not in trouble is ridiculous. We are. however you dress ity up, if they are liable to pay large amounts of interest in loans then the club will be what foots the bill. Unless the finally stick to their word and do what needs to be done.

Disaster or not, and i tend to see it as that if i'm honest, we are no closer to being financially able to compete and we do not have a new stadium, both the things they purported to be able to do when they took over, this is before we consider the long awaited arrival of snoogy doogy.

A company who is earning 35M interest a year from us doesn't want us to be miffed about it is how i read that letter. Incidentally what kind of cunt negotiates a loan at 10% interest rates???its fucking scandalous. Its OK if we keep getting deep into the champs league every year, but we are highly exposed financially and that causes problems. FACT. What happens when city get really good??

It is possible to have some level of sympathy with the owners in that the finacial markets did blow up just as they were arriving but they were and are far from benevolent to our club, something that up until his last days you could not say about Moores. IMHO Gillet and hicks must invest more withut bborrowing against us to do so. And until they do i for one will continue to point out that they are no good robbing lying cunts. I sincerely hope that they force me to change my tune but ....
[/quote]

About 400m of the loans Glazer obtained are at 14%.

 

[Tinto]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=34395.msg896360#msg896360 date=1246124311]
Perhaps watching Valencia fall apart first hand has made Molby a little more sensitive to the situation...?
[/quote]

Yeah, I think that too. I am trying to make him feel better... although I'm probably not doing a very good job.

I must admit when the talk of a new investor was being spoken about, I thought like Molby too and thought a new owner would just come along and throw their own money into the club like confetti. Now I am resigned to the fact that whoever took over, all the money the club needs would have been borrowed and required paying back. Having the new owners just meant we are able to borrow more.

 

[Molbystwin]

I wouldn't joke about Valencia to readily! The third biggest club in Spain, strong able team regular qualifiers for the CL .... wicked looking state of the art new stadium 80% done which was designed to be the best in the world....and they are absolutely fucked and forced to sell their best players.

Luckily my local team choice is Levante.... who in their own very little way are even more doomed.... i cant stand Valencia. In fact i'm considering buying up a season ticket in order to watch them suffer.

Strangely you are having the opposite effect to making me feel better because in saying what some of you are saying you also give the impression that you are content with our current situation. Perhaps i am too forthright, but i do not wish to be accused of being an irrelevent OOT by Vlad again. Some of your points are simply moot. Obviously we will be run as a businness but at least 2 of our direct competitors are not. Two more direct competitors already have an enormous financial advantage of new stadia over us this is not debatable it is actually fact. For RBS to say "dont worry" is disingenuous while we continue to pay them 35M a year in interest, an amount we can ill afford unless we are in a brand spanking new stadium. A stadium which strangely enough we are nowhere near funding let alone completing, partly due to the crisis and partly due to be owned by a bunch of piss poor shysters who had no fucking intention of doing anything but make a quick buck and also patently lack the financial clout required to do what we brought them in to do in the first place.

Im delighted that RBS are happy i really am.

 

[Tinto]

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=34395.msg896526#msg896526 date=1246187060]
I wouldn't joke about Valencia to readily! The third biggest club in Spain, strong able team regular qualifiers for the CL .... wicked looking state of the art new stadium 80% done which was designed to be the best in the world....and they are absolutely fucked and forced to sell their best players.

Luckily my local team choice is Levante.... who in their own very little way are even more doomed.... i cant stand Valencia. In fact i'm considering buying up a season ticket in order to watch them suffer.

Strangely you are having the opposite effect to making me feel better because in saying what some of you are saying you also give the impression that you are content with our current situation. Perhaps i am too forthright, but i do not wish to be accused of being an irrelevent OOT by Vlad again. Some of your points are simply moot. Obviously we will be run as a businness but at least 2 of our direct competitors are not. Two more direct competitors already have an enormous financial advantage of new stadia over us this is not debatable it is actually fact. For RBS to say "dont worry" is disingenuous while we continue to pay them 35M a year in interest, an amount we can ill afford unless we are in a brand spanking new stadium. A stadium which strangely enough we are nowhere near funding let alone completing, partly due to the crisis and partly due to be owned by a bunch of piss poor shysters who had no fucking intention of doing anything but make a quick buck and also patently lack the financial clout required to do what we brought them in to do in the first place.

Im delighted that RBS are happy i really am.


[/quote]

I don't think anyone is saying the current situation is perfect with the ownership but I just find it hard to take when people are saying we are doomed when we are clearly not. Like most things, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Well, we do want to be ran like business, do we not? We all know Chelsea's and City's model can't go on forever. Even now, with all the success Chelsea has had, they are still paying almost 70% of their turnover on salaries. City is approaching 65%. There will come a point where they will have to get their salaries down to a more sustainable level. Ours is 50% btw.

G&H could have double their money if they sold around a year ago but they held onto the club. For what reason? They passed on the quick buck as they know they can make more... much more if they built that damn stadium.

The situation may change and I may come to regret defending them but for now, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt as they seem to be doing the right things imo. They've put aside their differences and seem to be pulling in the same direction again. They've given Rafa a new long contract with the control that he was apparently promised by Parry and Moores. So ensuring stability on the footballing side. Their appointments to run the club seem sound. And they were sharp enough to offer Torres a pay rise asap to counteract the tax hike.

 

[Molbystwin]

I have also felt occasional ambivalence towards them at times, i quite like Hicks for example and thought that Gillett dodged plenty of flack and laid plenty of it at Hicks door during rafagate... I always got the feeling that Gillet was the snidey little cunt, just interested in selling up with or without stadium and that Hicks was the one with the longer term view.

But thats all just opinion and guesswork. Problematically is the fact that they are joint owners and although they are singing from the same hymnsheet at the minute it is a poor model. Lets say for example that Gillett is inclined to pay off a portion of debt with his Canadiens profit.... he can't unless Hicks does the same... what if they have another spat like last time?

Like it or not where the hell are we going to find the money for the new stadium?? It is really worrying.... if they can pull it off then by all means give them the keys to the city etc but so far they have not done anything to fill me with confidence. Actually hold on a minute.... it is a dogs dinner of a takeover all round!! media hype or no.... jesus.... I don't know tinto it's got to dissapointing to see that after nearly 15 years of wanting a new stadium all we've really got is big fat loans against us.

As for RBS's letter... i see it for what it is, a bank making healthy profits from a loan I wish we didnt have, trying to ameliorate the fans with pleasant words when in fact they are loving that big fat 35M.

 

[cochyn]

[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=34395.msg895697#msg895697 date=1246025078]
The SoS will like that.
[/quote]

yet no comments from them!!

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=34395.msg896526#msg896526 date=1246187060]
I wouldn't joke about Valencia to readily! The third biggest club in Spain, strong able team regular qualifiers for the CL .... wicked looking state of the art new stadium 80% done which was designed to be the best in the world....and they are absolutely fucked and forced to sell their best players.

Luckily my local team choice is Levante.... who in their own very little way are even more doomed.... i cant stand Valencia. In fact i'm considering buying up a season ticket in order to watch them suffer.

Strangely you are having the opposite effect to making me feel better because in saying what some of you are saying you also give the impression that you are content with our current situation. Perhaps i am too forthright, but i do not wish to be accused of being an irrelevent OOT by Vlad again. Some of your points are simply moot. Obviously we will be run as a businness but at least 2 of our direct competitors are not. Two more direct competitors already have an enormous financial advantage of new stadia over us this is not debatable it is actually fact. For RBS to say "dont worry" is disingenuous while we continue to pay them 35M a year in interest, an amount we can ill afford unless we are in a brand spanking new stadium. A stadium which strangely enough we are nowhere near funding let alone completing, partly due to the crisis and partly due to be owned by a bunch of piss poor shysters who had no fucking intention of doing anything but make a quick buck and also patently lack the financial clout required to do what we brought them in to do in the first place.

Im delighted that RBS are happy i really am.


[/quote]

Your comments about OT's and Vlad are quite ludicrous.

I also think most people share your fears about the Yanks, but it's too late now.

The actual conduct of the Yanks has not been that bad, in comparison.

HOwever what has irked is of course the fact that the Yanks have told us a pack of lies about the stadium and the debt being placed on the club.

The only solution to this mess is a Daddy Warbucks scenario; which doesnt look likely.

We'll just have to make the best of it.

 

[Molbystwin]

My comments about Vlad and OOT are not ludicrous at all, he thought i was having a dig at him as a matchgoer in another thread and came back with, what I thought was a lazy argument/response focusing on my being an OOT and not able to attend. Or some implication of same. Intentional or otherwise perhaps.

I dont dislike him at all as a poster and have absolutely no problem with him or anyone else to be honest, except that ardja cunt but that was ages ago, anyway i wrote one back in that thread but i dont think he read it... I just noticed that he chipped in here obliquely as well...

Im not especially arsed either way if im honest, its my genuine opinion that them two owners we have are bad for the club.

It doesnt have to be your opinion, its a free country and you should post accordingly.

I also take your point about making the best of the situation.