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Arda Turan wants to play for Liverpool

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[quote author=KopKing link=topic=32437.msg1064474#msg1064474 date=1267788901]
If you understand football, you'd realise that the outside left or right position i.e. 'wingers' are now almost defunct.[/quote]


What about Lennon? Young? Valencia? What are they, if they are not wingers?
 
[quote author=Stu link=topic=32437.msg1064488#msg1064488 date=1267791452]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=32437.msg1064474#msg1064474 date=1267788901]
If you understand football, you'd realise that the outside left or right position i.e. 'wingers' are now almost defunct.[/quote]


What about Lennon? Young? Valencia? What are they, if they are not wingers?
[/quote]
Racist!
 
It's fair to say that the traditional winger is getting harder and harder to find in the game, but there are still plenty of examples out there with Valencia probably being as good a one as you're likely to find.
 
I just don't get how this thread got so ridiculous.

The issue is whether or not we should get players who are of quality in a particular position as opposed to getting mediocre players just because they're more versatile and can play more positions.

Those who take the latter view seem to favour the idea that those 'particular' positions are illusory and that the game has changed.

Versatility is an asset of course, but I'd have thought this would have been a no-brainer.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=32437.msg1064305#msg1064305 date=1267757861]
Indeed, why is it so hard to buy players who are just very good in one position as oppsed to being 'meh' in three.
[/quote]

Reina, Mascherano, Agger, Skrtel, Torres, Crouch, Fowler, etc etc. He's bought plenty of players that were clearly capable of playing one position alone.

As KopKing (in his rather aggressive way) has put it; modern football's changed. Ferguson spent 30M on Rooney and stuck him on the left-wing for a year. Hargreaves, O'Shea, Anderson, Nani, Carrick, Neville, Fletcher, Scholes, Smith - they've all played in various positions.

Mourinho converted Geremi into a right back, Gudjohnsen into a midfielder, played Essien at centre back & right back, has played Ballack and Lampard everywhere across the midfield 5. And don't get me started on Wenger and his side's make-up because I'd genuinely be here all day. Do you think Moyes paid 5M for Phil Neville cos he was a half-decent full-back?

More and mroe often Managers buy players that can play a varoety of positions, because it gives them options, cover and importantly - security. You can spend 7M on an out and out right-winger like Pennant, and if he's no good in that position - you're fucked, cos he's not going to offer anything elsewhere on the pitch. At the same time you can get Aurelio on a free, and without beaing a worldbeater he can (and has) played in 3 positions.

Look at the qquality, options, balance and cover having the likes of him, Arbeloa and Kuyt have brought to us over the last 2/3 years. Managers want that. I'm not advocating it as a primary strategy, or even as a full=proof one, but it's still massively important in today's games and does sway a manager's choice when it comes to scouting and signing players.
 
Fair enough, Ryan...I see your point.

And thanks for illustrating it so well, it's a very good post.

I don't dismiss versatility, as I said...I do feel concern tho for what sacrifices are made in terms of player's actual ability in exchange for this versatility.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=32437.msg1064546#msg1064546 date=1267795580]

Fair enough, Ryan...I see your point.

And thanks for illustrating it so well, it's a very good post.

I don't dismiss versatility, as I said...I do feel concern tho for what sacrifices are made in terms of player's actual ability in exchange for this versatility.
[/quote]

That's fair enough too.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=32437.msg1064536#msg1064536 date=1267794739]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=32437.msg1064305#msg1064305 date=1267757861]
Indeed, why is it so hard to buy players who are just very good in one position as oppsed to being 'meh' in three.
[/quote]

Reina, Mascherano, Agger, Skrtel, Torres, Crouch, Fowler, etc etc. He's bought plenty of players that were clearly capable of playing one position alone.

As KopKing (in his rather aggressive way) has put it; modern football's changed. Ferguson spent 30M on Rooney and stuck him on the left-wing for a year. Hargreaves, O'Shea, Anderson, Nani, Carrick, Neville, Fletcher, Scholes, Smith - they've all played in various positions.

Mourinho converted Geremi into a right back, Gudjohnsen into a midfielder, played Essien at centre back & right back, has played Ballack and Lampard everywhere across the midfield 5. And don't get me started on Wenger and his side's make-up because I'd genuinely be here all day. Do you think Moyes paid 5M for Phil Neville cos he was a half-decent full-back?

More and mroe often Managers buy players that can play a varoety of positions, because it gives them options, cover and importantly - security. You can spend 7M on an out and out right-winger like Pennant, and if he's no good in that position - you're fucked, cos he's not going to offer anything elsewhere on the pitch. At the same time you can get Aurelio on a free, and without beaing a worldbeater he can (and has) played in 3 positions.

Look at the qquality, options, balance and cover having the likes of him, Arbeloa and Kuyt have brought to us over the last 2/3 years. Managers want that. I'm not advocating it as a primary strategy, or even as a full=proof one, but it's still massively important in today's games and does sway a manager's choice when it comes to scouting and signing players.
[/quote]

It's worth pointing out, particularly in recent years, that Fergie has played players in a variety of roles alot and rarely receives flack for it (probably because the results speak for themselves). He's also been reluctant to buy an out and out striker and gone for an attacking three or four players versatile enough to play a number of roles, which I guess also makes it harder for the opposition to mark. Like Rooney, Ronaldo, Nani, Giggs (who's played centrally enough in recent times). Even the likes of O'Shea and Fletcher have played different positions for the cause.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=32437.msg1064536#msg1064536 date=1267794739]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=32437.msg1064305#msg1064305 date=1267757861]
Indeed, why is it so hard to buy players who are just very good in one position as oppsed to being 'meh' in three.
[/quote]

Reina, Mascherano, Agger, Skrtel, Torres, Crouch, Fowler, etc etc. He's bought plenty of players that were clearly capable of playing one position alone.

As KopKing (in his rather aggressive way) has put it; modern football's changed. Ferguson spent 30M on Rooney and stuck him on the left-wing for a year. Hargreaves, O'Shea, Anderson, Nani, Carrick, Neville, Fletcher, Scholes, Smith - they've all played in various positions.

Mourinho converted Geremi into a right back, Gudjohnsen into a midfielder, played Essien at centre back & right back, has played Ballack and Lampard everywhere across the midfield 5. And don't get me started on Wenger and his side's make-up because I'd genuinely be here all day. Do you think Moyes paid 5M for Phil Neville cos he was a half-decent full-back?

More and mroe often Managers buy players that can play a varoety of positions, because it gives them options, cover and importantly - security. You can spend 7M on an out and out right-winger like Pennant, and if he's no good in that position - you're fucked, cos he's not going to offer anything elsewhere on the pitch. At the same time you can get Aurelio on a free, and without beaing a worldbeater he can (and has) played in 3 positions.

Look at the qquality, options, balance and cover having the likes of him, Arbeloa and Kuyt have brought to us over the last 2/3 years. Managers want that. I'm not advocating it as a primary strategy, or even as a full=proof one, but it's still massively important in today's games and does sway a manager's choice when it comes to scouting and signing players.
[/quote]

I couldn't have put it better myself (and clearly didn't, being so aggressive!) 🙂

Always look forward to hearing your views mate.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=32437.msg1064536#msg1064536 date=1267794739]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=32437.msg1064305#msg1064305 date=1267757861]
Indeed, why is it so hard to buy players who are just very good in one position as oppsed to being 'meh' in three.
[/quote]

blah blah blah... Pennant... blah blah blah.
[/quote]

Brilliantly argued and perfectly illustrated.
 
I wish KopKing and Mike Hunt were more versatile, rather than just annoying blerts nobody likes *all* the time
 
Also this whole notion of 'modern, versatile footballers' is almost as laughable as Ryan O'Tomkins previous hobbyhorse that 'defensive midfielders are an anachronism', which he's largely stopped quacking on about now

The examples used are also laughably facile; Rooney, Gerrard, Essien

They've played in lots of positions due to the needs of the team, and are able to do so to a high level because they're fucking great players.

But that doesn't mean they are 'the future of football'
 
When did I say they are the future if football?

I used Arshavin and Joe Cole as they are top footballers playing on the wing.

Since when is this a popularity contest anw?

So learn to fucking read, stop making assumptions, move the fuck on.
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=32437.msg1064673#msg1064673 date=1267819326]
Also this whole notion of 'modern, versatile footballers' is almost as laughable as Ryan O'Tomkins previous hobbyhorse that 'defensive midfielders are an anachronism', which he's largely stopped quacking on about now

The examples used are also laughably facile; Rooney, Gerrard, Essien

They've played in lots of positions due to the needs of the team, and are able to do so to a high level because they're fucking great players.

But that doesn't mean they are 'the future of football'


[/quote]
 
[quote author=Assulin link=topic=32437.msg1064692#msg1064692 date=1267822008]
This isn't gonna end..................................



well
[/quote]
It will if he wind his neck in.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=32437.msg1064533#msg1064533 date=1267794565]
I just don't get how this thread got so ridiculous.
[/quote]
You don't get it?

Okay I'll explain it slowly for you.

This is a thread about Arda Turan, an attacking midfielder who plays on the left.

Fark made a comment that he's sick of signing attacking midfielders who play anywhere else but attacking midfield.

KopKing then replied by stating that in modern football many attacking midfielders do play on the wing.

You then went out of the blue asking the stupidest, most irrelevant of questions, "Is that why Rafa's so shit?"

That's when it got ridiculous.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=32437.msg1064696#msg1064696 date=1267823570]
Or else what?
[/quote]
I'll destroy your arguments again.
 
Yes, there's plenty of evidence of that, you have reduced them to so much rubble

I wonder why it is I find you so repulsive? Can you explain it?
 
[quote author=Mike Hunt link=topic=32437.msg1064701#msg1064701 date=1267823980]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=32437.msg1064696#msg1064696 date=1267823570]
Or else what?
[/quote]
I'll destroy your arguments again.
[/quote]

Quieten down there Ardja.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=32437.msg1064703#msg1064703 date=1267824426]
Yes, there's plenty of evidence of that, you have reduced them to so much rubble

I wonder why it is I find you so repulsive? Can you explain it?
[/quote]
cos you're a sad muppet who takes football forums too seriously?
 
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=32437.msg1064729#msg1064729 date=1267828601]
What've you just done there Ardja?

Looks like hypocrisy o'clock here.
[/quote]


Ardja could be upset because of the j in his name being redundant. You know what I mean, like he's now one of those people who've just added a letter to someone elses name and used it, because of they're not unique enough to have their own name
 
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