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arbeloa...

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[quote author=rage link=topic=34869.msg914054#msg914054 date=1248852160]
well did rafa not only take full control this summer of transfers?

when we failed to land players before this summer or sold players at a loss did we all not blame parry, even rafa blamed parry?

these are facts, if it presents a different picture from the one you'd like to see it doesn't make it prejudiced.

as for telling me to fuck off, yea that'll scare me away u thick cunt
[/quote]

Erm.. Some people blamed Parry for everything, I can hold my hands up (and Ross and Vlad could probably vouch too) and say that I'm not on that bandwaggon.

So stop being a condescending, discriminative cunt.

Have a look at our transfer dealings regards our outgoings pre Benitez, then have a look since he was appointed manager*.

* You might need some beads and a couple of pots, and a bit of help from Mum.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=34869.msg914054#msg914054 date=1248852160]
these are facts, if it presents a different picture from the one you'd like to see it doesn't make it prejudiced.
[/quote]


Your avatar is "rafa rage". You are typified as a poster by the fact that you leap on anything that enables you to go on the same tired rant.

You can't see why it would strike anyone as a little strange that you'd start lecturing someone about having a biased view of things?
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34869.msg914052#msg914052 date=1248851958]
[quote author=rage link=topic=34869.msg914049#msg914049 date=1248851710]
rafa only took over this summer didn't he? or is it a case of rafa's done well when we do good and all parry's fault before this summer?
[/quote]

Parry was CEO before Rafa was here and we got screwed left right and centre over transfers, since Rafa arrived that's stopped happening. The fact he wanted complete control over the handling of transfers can hardly be coincidental.

Look at our stance over Alonso and how much we're asking for Dossena, under past regimes we'd have caved in to paltry bids by now. As much as I think Arbeloa is worth more than we're likely to get, he IS in the last year of his contract.
[/quote]

how much of this is about rafa or about parry getting better.

i actually think we got screwed on transfers by the actions of previous managers rather than parry. houllier clearly was his own man and went after players himself and bar that summer of stupidity it really wasn't all that bad.

losing 50% in one season on doseena imo is not good business and neither is allowing any player run his contract down.

in all honesty selling arbeloa for 4 million euros is not worth the lack of established cover, i'd rather we had kept him and let him walk next season. we now only have 1 recognised right back. degen is a liability.

oh and our record transfer out is still fowler is it not? we have not sold players for anywhere near 10 million since rafa arrived obviously that will change with alonso leaves.

i'm just prepared to see rafa in a more wholesome manner rather than hero worship him. if that makes me a 'condescending, discriminative cunt' i'll take that as a compliment.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=34869.msg914059#msg914059 date=1248852728]
[quote author=rage link=topic=34869.msg914054#msg914054 date=1248852160]
these are facts, if it presents a different picture from the one you'd like to see it doesn't make it prejudiced.
[/quote]


Your avatar is "rafa rage". You are typified as a poster by the fact that you leap on anything that enables you to go on the same tired rant.

You can't see why it would strike anyone as a little strange that you'd start lecturing someone about having a biased view of things?
[/quote]

i didn't pick my avatar. do you really think its worth risking 4 million euros to let our most consistent full back leave? i bet we paid degen close to that as a signing on fee and that waste of space i wouldn't trust in a under 7s game.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=34869.msg914060#msg914060 date=1248852790]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34869.msg914052#msg914052 date=1248851958]
[quote author=rage link=topic=34869.msg914049#msg914049 date=1248851710]
rafa only took over this summer didn't he? or is it a case of rafa's done well when we do good and all parry's fault before this summer?
[/quote]

Parry was CEO before Rafa was here and we got screwed left right and centre over transfers, since Rafa arrived that's stopped happening. The fact he wanted complete control over the handling of transfers can hardly be coincidental.

Look at our stance over Alonso and how much we're asking for Dossena, under past regimes we'd have caved in to paltry bids by now. As much as I think Arbeloa is worth more than we're likely to get, he IS in the last year of his contract.
[/quote]

how much of this is about rafa or about parry getting better.

i actually think we got screwed on transfers by the actions of previous managers rather than parry. houllier clearly was his own man and went after players himself and bar that summer of stupidity it really wasn't all that bad.

losing 50% in one season on doseena imo is not good business and neither is allowing any player run his contract down.

in all honesty selling arbeloa for 4 million euros is not worth the lack of established cover, i'd rather we had kept him and let him walk next season. we now only have 1 recognised right back. degen is a liability.

oh and our record transfer out is still fowler is it not? we have not sold players for anywhere near 10 million since rafa arrived obviously that will change with alonso leaves.

i'm just prepared to see rafa in a more wholesome manner rather than hero worship him. if that makes me a 'condescending, discriminative cunt' i'll take that as a compliment.
[/quote]

You keep beating on a strawman.

Mark can't be accused of being blinkered or hero worshipping Rafa. Why don't you go on a more happy go lucky site. Perhaps then your polarized view would at least serve to offer some sense of balance.
 
Crouch?

Of the players that Rafa's signed for £10m+, only Keane has been sold on.

The remainder are Alonso, who we're likely to receive more than double what we paid 5yrs ago for (near triple maybe). Kuyt we're getting our money's worth out of, ditto Torres, Johnson is a new signing.

Further examples:

Josemi bought for £2m, sold for £4m (as part of the Kromkamp deal)
Gonzalez bought for £1.5m, sold for near £5m
Bellamy, money made back.
Crouch bought for £7m, sold for £10m+ with one year left on his contract.

No one is saying Rafa is white than white, but picking holes in his selling policy is a non-starter.

*must try harder*
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=34869.msg914061#msg914061 date=1248852964]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=34869.msg914059#msg914059 date=1248852728]
[quote author=rage link=topic=34869.msg914054#msg914054 date=1248852160]
these are facts, if it presents a different picture from the one you'd like to see it doesn't make it prejudiced.
[/quote]


Your avatar is "rafa rage". You are typified as a poster by the fact that you leap on anything that enables you to go on the same tired rant.

You can't see why it would strike anyone as a little strange that you'd start lecturing someone about having a biased view of things?
[/quote]

i didn't pick my avatar. do you really think its worth risking 4 million euros to let our most consistent full back leave? i bet we paid degen close to that as a signing on fee and that waste of space i wouldn't trust in a under 7s game.


[/quote]

Are you really that thick Rage? Rafa's bought a £17m right back and Arbeloa has one year left on his contract. He's not really in a position to hold onto the player and rightly so he's never been a manager who wants to keep players against their will, when they clearly don't want to play for us.

I don't want shithouses who see their arse as soon as a bit of competition comes along, and I'd be disgusted if our manager did too.

I really liked Arbeloa and in an ideal World we would keep him, but since when did we live in an ideal World, especially the World of football where big money and massive ego's come into play?
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34869.msg914063#msg914063 date=1248853202]
Crouch?

Of the players that Rafa's signed for £10m+, only Keane has been sold on.

The remainder are Alonso, who we're likely to receive more than double what we paid 5yrs ago for (near triple maybe). Kuyt we're getting our money's worth out of, ditto Torres, Johnson is a new signing.

Further examples:

Josemi bought for £2m, sold for £4m (as part of the Kromkamp deal)
Gonzalez bought for £1.5m, sold for near £5m
Bellamy, money made back.
Crouch bought for £7m, sold for £10m+ with one year left on his contract.

No one is saying Rafa is white than white, but picking holes in his selling policy is a non-starter.

*must try harder*
[/quote]

...and I know it was a loss but the fact he picked up close to 9mil from Marseille for Cisse was a great bit of business consiedering he shattered both his legs with us.
 
[quote author=Stu link=topic=34869.msg914065#msg914065 date=1248853426]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34869.msg914063#msg914063 date=1248853202]
Crouch?

Of the players that Rafa's signed for £10m+, only Keane has been sold on.

The remainder are Alonso, who we're likely to receive more than double what we paid 5yrs ago for (near triple maybe). Kuyt we're getting our money's worth out of, ditto Torres, Johnson is a new signing.

Further examples:

Josemi bought for £2m, sold for £4m (as part of the Kromkamp deal)
Gonzalez bought for £1.5m, sold for near £5m
Bellamy, money made back.
Crouch bought for £7m, sold for £10m+ with one year left on his contract.

No one is saying Rafa is white than white, but picking holes in his selling policy is a non-starter.

*must try harder*
[/quote]

...and I know it was a loss but the fact he picked up close to 9mil from Marseille for Cisse was a great bit of business consiedering he shattered both his legs with us.
[/quote]

Yep. We practically made our money back on Morientes too. The main losses have been keane and Pennant, his transfer policy overall in terms of selling has been pretty impressive, the only thing I'd take issue with is the fact he bought some of the shite in the first place.
 
there will be a time this season when most of us will wish we were able to call on arbeloa instead of have 4 million euros in the bank and have either degen on the pitch or one of our centre backs covering left back.

i don't see it as successful when we buy players for 2 million and then sell them for 4 or even 6 million if during his time here that player has been average, failed to establish himself and also cost us points.

from the list you put up mark, only crouch won me over, and infact reinforces my point - we got plus 10 million for him because he was English, we should be getting a premium from madrid for arbeloa also as he's spanish.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=34869.msg914068#msg914068 date=1248853976]
i don't see it as successful when we buy players for 2 million and then sell them for 4 or even 6 million if during his time here that player has been average, failed to establish himself and also cost us points.
[/quote]
Who do you refer to?
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=34869.msg914068#msg914068 date=1248853976]
there will be a time this season when most of us will wish we were able to call on arbeloa instead of have 4 million euros in the bank and have either degen on the pitch or one of our centre backs covering left back.

i don't see it as successful when we buy players for 2 million and then sell them for 4 or even 6 million if during his time here that player has been average, failed to establish himself and also cost us points.

from the list you put up mark, only crouch won me over, and infact reinforces my point - we got plus 10 million for him because he was English, we should be getting a premium from madrid for arbeloa also as he's spanish.




[/quote]

Well we haven't sold him yet so really it's all conjecture, and I'd wager if they weren't in for Xabi aswell they'd be more generous in their offer for Arbeloa.

Either way your point, however valid it may be that we'll miss Arbeloa, is missing some important sticking points:

* He wants to go
* He has one year left on his contract
* He's been a 'steady' player not a spectacular one
* As said, Rafa won't keep players when their heart isn't in it
* We've just spunked £17m on a first choice right back, so clearly Arbleloa's opportunities will be limited.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=34869.msg914068#msg914068 date=1248853976]
there will be a time this season when most of us will wish we were able to call on arbeloa instead of have 4 million euros in the bank and have either degen on the pitch or one of our centre backs covering left back.





[/quote]

I agree with that. I also think that even with one year on his contract he should be nearer 8 than 4 mill (£)
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=34869.msg914076#msg914076 date=1248854308]
[quote author=rage link=topic=34869.msg914068#msg914068 date=1248853976]
there will be a time this season when most of us will wish we were able to call on arbeloa instead of have 4 million euros in the bank and have either degen on the pitch or one of our centre backs covering left back.





[/quote]

I agree with that. I also think that even with one year on his contract he should be nearer 8 than 4 mill (£)

[/quote]

What makes you say that? How on earth would we get 8 millions for Arbeloa with a year left on his contract? He would probably only just make that amount on a longer deal.

You've got your sums wrong somewhere methinks
 
[quote author=Bernowatson link=topic=34869.msg914077#msg914077 date=1248854784]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=34869.msg914076#msg914076 date=1248854308]
[quote author=rage link=topic=34869.msg914068#msg914068 date=1248853976]
there will be a time this season when most of us will wish we were able to call on arbeloa instead of have 4 million euros in the bank and have either degen on the pitch or one of our centre backs covering left back.





[/quote]

I agree with that. I also think that even with one year on his contract he should be nearer 8 than 4 mill (£)

[/quote]

What makes you say that? How on earth would we get 8 millions for Arbeloa with a year left on his contract? He would probably only just make that amount on a longer deal.

You've got your sums wrong somewhere methinks


[/quote]

Man City are paying 16m for the 28 year old, 3rd choice, Toure, who also has only one year left on his contract.
 
That's City - they also paid 18M for De Jong who would be available for 2.5M a short time later, 15M for Bellamy and so forth.

I would've liked us to get more for Arbeloa, but ultimately I don't really care. The Alonso deal is what'll annoy me if we end up getting screwed over, which I can kinda see happening now.
 
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=34869.msg914080#msg914080 date=1248855085]
[quote author=Bernowatson link=topic=34869.msg914077#msg914077 date=1248854784]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=34869.msg914076#msg914076 date=1248854308]
[quote author=rage link=topic=34869.msg914068#msg914068 date=1248853976]
there will be a time this season when most of us will wish we were able to call on arbeloa instead of have 4 million euros in the bank and have either degen on the pitch or one of our centre backs covering left back.





[/quote]

I agree with that. I also think that even with one year on his contract he should be nearer 8 than 4 mill (£)

[/quote]

What makes you say that? How on earth would we get 8 millions for Arbeloa with a year left on his contract? He would probably only just make that amount on a longer deal.

You've got your sums wrong somewhere methinks


[/quote]

Man City are paying 16m for the 28 year old, 3rd choice, Toure, who also has only one year left on his contract.
[/quote]

That's City, who everyone are screwing right now. Not to mention that however overrated Toure is, he's still a higher profile player than Arbeloa.
 
Re: Arbeloa Gone

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=34869.msg914017#msg914017 date=1248838281]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=34964.msg914014#msg914014 date=1248836268]
Almost double what we paid.

Not bad but think he is worth more.
[/quote]

You do know how much 4M Euro is don't you?
[/quote]

Clearly not.
 
[quote author=IGotALuvlyBunchOfCoconuts link=topic=34869.msg914081#msg914081 date=1248855230]
THat's man city though.
[/quote]

Real Madrid have hardly been shy of coughing up this summer though eh?
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34869.msg914052#msg914052 date=1248851958]
[quote author=rage link=topic=34869.msg914049#msg914049 date=1248851710]
rafa only took over this summer didn't he? or is it a case of rafa's done well when we do good and all parry's fault before this summer?
[/quote]

Parry was CEO before Rafa was here and we got screwed left right and centre over transfers, since Rafa arrived that's stopped happening. The fact he wanted complete control over the handling of transfers can hardly be coincidental.

Look at our stance over Alonso and how much we're asking for Dossena, under past regimes we'd have caved in to paltry bids by now. As much as I think Arbeloa is worth more than we're likely to get, he IS in the last year of his contract.
[/quote]

It's partly because we may not get what Arbeloa's really worth (and partly because I think we still need him in the squad) that I would sooner keep him this season than accept a couple of mill.for him. That said, we know we're not exactly rolling in dosh, and we don't know who else the money may be needed for.

Otherwise agree 100%. I'm quite sure Xabi would have been at Real by now under the previous regime, and I doubt we'd even have got a fee for Dossena.
 
I agree with Rage.
Not the anti-rafa bile. The 'we shouldnt be selling Arbeloa' bit.

I also agree with Mac that if its 4m euro we are being humped.
He's the 'now' first choice Spanish Left back and hes still young.
Id be asking 8 to 10m for him and if they dont want to pay he can go for free next year 4m euro isnt fucking worth selling a good versatile player for. Especially given the question marks over Johnson, Degen, Insua, Dossena and Aurelio.
Its shite business.
 
I wonder in the Arby case whether Rafa asked him for another season last year (when there was a lot of speculation about him being homesick for Spain), and promised not to stand in his way if the right move came along. Rafa is being far too pliant in relation to the Arby move.
 
Could well be, doc. That whole thing went quiet pretty suddenly last year. Something like you've suggested there would explain that.
 
I don't really have a problem with rafa's transfer policy because to my mind we have a quality first 11 (alonso is still ours) so I don't care how we got there just that we are there.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34869.msg914126#msg914126 date=1248859790]
Did they say how much??
[/quote]

3.5mil on the BBC website
 
If that's pounds sterling, it's just about fair enough in the circs. If it's euros, I'd sooner have kept him. Oh well.
 
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