Anthony Gordon
- Thread starter rurikbird
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I hate games played - you come on for a 5 mins sub appearance and that's a game. Makes zero sense as we'll see because your stats say Diaz played 36 games to Gordon's 35 .... however Gordon played nearly 400 mins more ! So ...
Diaz 8 goals in 2,574 mins (goal every 321.75 mins). Assists 5 (one every 515 mins).
Gordon 10 goals (+1 if you want for the penalty but he only took that because Isaak was off the pitch) in 2,906 mins (goal every 290.6 mins and ditto assists).
As far as goals is concerned that's close enough to be a push but Gordon is miles ahead in assists. But since many of you like to blame Big Chances missed is that a result of our forwards missing and Newcastle's (Isaak) being more clinical? And I'm guessing many of those Big Chances and Assists were from his thousands of crosses.
Diaz has far more passes (per min) but Gordon a massive difference in crosses (ca. x4 per mins played). Shooting accuracy close (38% to 34% in favour of Gordon).
Gordon clearly edges it this season but it's not that clear cut as some would have us believe, and remember that Diaz had some ridiculously emotional circumstances to contend with. It also depends on style of play, Diaz made faar more passes - was that down to Klopp ? And Gordon x4 more crosses, Howe's influence ? Would that still suit us under Slot?
This is far from clear cut and I wouldn't be gambling £70m on Gordon.
EDIT : Especially so after reading Binny's statistics ! Posters underrating one of our players and overrating the neighbour's wife is not new for 6CM.
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Opta Event Definitions - Stats Perform
Opta have a long-established list of ‘Event Definitions’ in football. These allow us to provide in-depth data consistent across the globe
www.statsperform.com
Big chances:
"A situation where a player should reasonably be expected to score, usually in a one on one scenario or from very close range when the ball has a clear path to goal and there is low to moderate pressure on the shooter. Penalties are always considered big chances."
- Gordon won 6 penalties this season.
Expected assists (xA):
"measures the likelihood that a completed pass will become a goal assist. It considers several factors including the type of pass and end-point and length of pass. Adding up a player or team’s expected assists gives us an indication of how many assists a player of team should have had based on their build up and attacking play."
Genuine question: Why are Gordon and Diaz's big chances created 16 and 5 respectively but their xAG 8 and 5.3 respectively?
"One on one + very close range" being the main differences? If that's the case I would prefer to look at chances created + xA over big chances created.
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Crosses wise, fair to say it's a "job scope" thing
Crosses in EPL:
Premier League Club Stats - Crosses
View Crosses played by Premier League clubs for 2018/19 and previous seasons, on the official website of the Premier League.
www.premierleague.com
Liverpool - 2nd (792)
Newcastle - 13th (630)
I think he said we’re big fans of Gordon, but Newcastle don’t want to sell him.
Opta Event Definitions - Stats Perform
Opta have a long-established list of ‘Event Definitions’ in football. These allow us to provide in-depth data consistent across the globe
Big chances:
"A situation where a player should reasonably be expected to score, usually in a one on one scenario or from very close range when the ball has a clear path to goal and there is low to moderate pressure on the shooter. Penalties are always considered big chances."
- Gordon won 6 penalties this season.
Expected assists (xA):
"measures the likelihood that a completed pass will become a goal assist. It considers several factors including the type of pass and end-point and length of pass. Adding up a player or team’s expected assists gives us an indication of how many assists a player of team should have had based on their build up and attacking play."
Genuine question: Why are Gordon and Diaz's big chances created 16 and 5 respectively but their xAG 8 and 5.3 respectively?
"One on one + very close range" being the main differences? If that's the case I would prefer to look at chances created + xA over big chances created.
Chances created:
A cumulative total of ‘Assists’ and ‘Key Passes’ Also see ‘Assists’ and ‘Key Passes.’
Key passes:
The final pass from a player to their teammate who then makes an attempt on Goal without scoring.
I understand reacting to the links, that’s something we all do instinctively. But surely you follow enough football to naturally know the names of the top 5-10 wingers or players in each position? No digging or searching required.
First season was a half season
Second season he missed half the season to injury.
What’s the average crosses a winger puts in a season or how does that compare to Salah? The crosses have to mount to something otherwise it’s meaningless (you can have the most shots on target or be in the top few percent but if the goals aren't being produced - it's meaningless) plus our width/crosses have usually always come from our fullbacks.
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I think you've just stopped the forum collective jizzing Binny.
Nope. I tend to watch others play and call them shite. Sometimes I say they are good like Gordon last night. I couldn’t tell you anyone that is good in France, Spain or Italy. Apart from Vinictus Jr. he is class. A cunt. Someone we could never buy.
I think you have a better chance of getting with scarlet Johansson and Cameron Diaz in the same night than us signing palmer ...
Money talks They say…
Read "My Life" by Leon Trotsky - that books has a shit load of left wingers in it
PROS:
- An actual goal-scoring winger, a rarity
- Proved he can consistently beat and create chances against Premier League defenders
- Athletic and fast, good work-rate
- Good availability record (advantage over Olise)
- boyhood Red
- ambitious, driven personality
- wins penalties
CONS
- expensive because of “Premier League tax”
- looks weird
=========
Anything I forgot?
- An actual goal-scoring winger, a rarity
- Proved he can consistently beat and create chances against Premier League defenders
- Athletic and fast, good work-rate
- Good availability record (advantage over Olise)
- boyhood Red
- ambitious, driven personality
- wins penalties
CONS
- expensive because of “Premier League tax”
- looks weird
=========
Anything I forgot?
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How many slow fancy midfielders can we handle? We can’t get a more non athletic midfielder than him. If we didn’t have macca them fine.
I was not saying we should buy, but that he is the likely one they will sell. City and arse have been interested if you read rumours.
We need an athletic beast
Dreamie would… in a heartbeat.
Are we’re doing that thing were we reckon we’ll get top dollar for our player and a “knock-down” price for the players we sign?
I’d be fucking shocked if Barca pay £70m for Diaz - we’ll do well to get anything over £50m.
As for Gordon… Newcastle will absolutely demsnd £100m+ for Gordon.
What’s the worst that could happen if they get done for FFP… they get docked 2 points or something…. Meh… Gordon & Bruno are worth more than 2 points.
If I were a betting man… I’d fuck Tonali off back to Italy.
See what I did there… eh.. eh!!!!
I’d be fucking shocked if Barca pay £70m for Diaz - we’ll do well to get anything over £50m.
As for Gordon… Newcastle will absolutely demsnd £100m+ for Gordon.
What’s the worst that could happen if they get done for FFP… they get docked 2 points or something…. Meh… Gordon & Bruno are worth more than 2 points.
If I were a betting man… I’d fuck Tonali off back to Italy.
See what I did there… eh.. eh!!!!
Regardless of who Slott wants, Edwards and his merry band of excel dorks are not going to sign off £90m, or anything close to it, on Anthony Gordon. This screams of Slott likes wingers + Newcastle need to sell a player. Link them together and suddenly a story. TBF, it's more credible than half the shite on the Internet, but I'd wager it's a total bollocks.
Plus he looks like a transitioning daughter of Pat Butcher.
Plus he looks like a transitioning daughter of Pat Butcher.
I think it’s a misconception that Edwards likes shopping in the bargain bin. Salah looked overpriced at the time for a “Chelsea reject.” People said Mane was a good player, but the fee was excessive and buying yet another player from Southampton “lacked imagination”. Eyebrows were raised at Jota’s fee even more. And that’s before we even mention Van Dijk, Alisson or Keita - our record fees for players in their respective positions.
I think what the data guys’ approach does, it helps them not to become a victim of hype - we rarely if ever were battling it out for “the most desirable bachelor in town,” usually the data led us to players who weren’t cheap because they were valued and relied upon by their current club, even if the outside world didn’t completely realize their value.
I think transfer price is tangential for Edwards: he is looking for the right player whether they cost a record amount or are available on a free; price is not a factor in the initial search for a player. Unlike salary demands BTW - I think we don’t even consider players above a certain salary threshold.
I think what the data guys’ approach does, it helps them not to become a victim of hype - we rarely if ever were battling it out for “the most desirable bachelor in town,” usually the data led us to players who weren’t cheap because they were valued and relied upon by their current club, even if the outside world didn’t completely realize their value.
I think transfer price is tangential for Edwards: he is looking for the right player whether they cost a record amount or are available on a free; price is not a factor in the initial search for a player. Unlike salary demands BTW - I think we don’t even consider players above a certain salary threshold.
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Yeah, but we’d be talking about getting close to a record fee for an English player and a record fee for us.
Virgil & Alisson were established top class international players when they signed - Gordon isn’t - though he might be one, one day.
Also, while, at the time, Mane & Salah fees were “high” - they weren’t this high.
I mean… it’s not my money, so if Edwards has loads of cash - maybe the Caicedo money is burning a hole is someone’s pocket - and they want to spend it all on Anthony Gordon, then I’m fine with that.
IF… they have money for other signings.
It doesn’t fix some of the other issues we have, but it would surely limit our ability to sign other players.
I’m in the camp that reckons this is paper bullshit and nothing will come of it.
Todd Boehly might feel like spaffing £100m on him.
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Our fullback you mean Joe Gomez? Not sure how many meaningful crosses he will make.
Being an effective winger is about having a range of skill, a repertoire of attacking moves. If we can make out that Diaz simply doesn't do crossing of the ball for whatever reason, I would think our opponents would have caught on. Salah crosses plenty, loads of highlight reels to view, I can't remember any for Diaz.
Anyway, it's the end of the season. I don't actually need stats to tell me Diaz is not good enough for us. He will actually be the first attacker I will replace. You will surely feel otherwise. I can leave it as that. The stats are from an independent source, take it what you will.
We will know next season who is still around. The wheels seems to be turning on Edward's end.
I actually agree stats doesn't tell the whole story. It is up interpretation and definition. I am only posting them as a reference as I don't watch too much of Gordon, I'm not a professional scout or anything.
I saw Binny's stats on Diaz and I can only say that doesn't tie in with what I have seen on the pitch with Diaz. I can admit I don't think Diaz is good enough for us and any player the club has identified as a replacement for him is music to my ears. We need better.
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