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Alonso on Benitez...

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Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

[quote author=SaRed link=topic=35598.msg937099#msg937099 date=1251878472]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35598.msg936987#msg936987 date=1251848233]
Its saying what we all knew, well, most of us with half a brain. The love was lost, and the dice were cast when Xabi refused to travel when his wife was due, Rafa never forgave him and would off-load him ASAP. Xabi was miffed by that and would leave sooner rather than later on his terms.
I think it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. In my opinion, Xabi should have travelled, Rafa should not be such a control freak, and looked at the bigger picture.
To add the concluding bit.............
Rafa cried crocodile tears about Xabi going, he just wanted as much money as possible for him. It blew up in Rafa's face when G&T clung on to the proceeds though.

regards
[/quote]

Why?
At the end of the day it's just a job, why shouldn't he get off to attend his first child's birth?

There's nothing that would've kept me from that moment, even if it meant being fired.
I don't see why it should be any different for footballers irrespective of how much they earn.
On that point Rafa was being prick.
[/quote]
It's not "just a job" though is it? They get paid tens of thousands of pounds a week, to be at least available for what , thirty times a year?
The chances were that it was not going to happen when he wasn't there either, and it wouldn't have.
As you say you would have been prepared to be fired, and that is what Xabi in effect did. That was Xabi's choice, he knows Rafa as well as anyone and better than most.
Managers have every right to expect the same level of commitment from their players.
It's not a matter of agreeing who is right or wrong, it's just the way it was.

regards
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

I know it's like for like, but with the cash we got Xabi we've signed Aquaman and Johnson. I personally think Johnson is a better RB than Xabi is CM'r.

I also think we've got a crazy amount of money for him out of Madrid which is excellent business, considering last summer we'd have bit someone's hand off for 15mill.
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

[quote author=SaRed link=topic=35598.msg937117#msg937117 date=1251880485]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=35598.msg937111#msg937111 date=1251879374]
Like Shankly was being a prick for never having any time for his wife and family. Managers are obsessive. We encourage them to be obsessive. It's a bit rich for us to then slag them off for being obsessive when we allow a bit of the real world to pierce our own obsessive interest in our team doing well.
[/quote]

I don't think so.

Isn't that what being a fan is all about?
Irrationally jumping from one end of the scale to the other 🙂
[/quote]

The point is I don't recall many sitting back during that European match and thinking, 'Ah well, we may lose now but that isn't the important thing...' Fans tend to be childish in such circumstances and managers are under so much pressure to win it's hardly surprising when they display even worse tunnel vision. To damn him retrospectively for not being a normal nice guy is what is so tiresome. (Note to Lucas: get someone pregnant, pronto...)
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35598.msg937132#msg937132 date=1251881066]
[quote author=SaRed link=topic=35598.msg937099#msg937099 date=1251878472]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35598.msg936987#msg936987 date=1251848233]
Its saying what we all knew, well, most of us with half a brain. The love was lost, and the dice were cast when Xabi refused to travel when his wife was due, Rafa never forgave him and would off-load him ASAP. Xabi was miffed by that and would leave sooner rather than later on his terms.
I think it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. In my opinion, Xabi should have travelled, Rafa should not be such a control freak, and looked at the bigger picture.
To add the concluding bit.............
Rafa cried crocodile tears about Xabi going, he just wanted as much money as possible for him. It blew up in Rafa's face when G&T clung on to the proceeds though.

regards
[/quote]

Why?
At the end of the day it's just a job, why shouldn't he get off to attend his first child's birth?

There's nothing that would've kept me from that moment, even if it meant being fired.
I don't see why it should be any different for footballers irrespective of how much they earn.
On that point Rafa was being prick.
[/quote]
It's not "just a job" though is it? They get paid tens of thousands of pounds a week, to be at least available for what , thirty times a year?
The chances were that it was not going to happen when he wasn't there either, and it wouldn't have.
As you say you would have been prepared to be fired, and that is what Xabi in effect did. That was Xabi's choice, he knows Rafa as well as anyone and better than most.
Managers have every right to expect the same level of commitment from their players.
It's not a matter of agreeing who is right or wrong, it's just the way it was.

regards



[/quote]
Good post..
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

I understand what you're saying... you're both older and wiser than I am :-*

Just for me, some thing like that is more important than any amount of money and if my boss didn't understand, then he'd be a prick.

There's days when I think the whole team are bunch of pricks.
It would take me a few years to earn what they earn in a week... they least they could do is 'show up' in the goddamn match.
Put some F-ing effort into it, damnit!
Sorry, just the remnants of the Villa match 🙂
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

the truth is alonso needs to look at himself truthfully and ask why rafa tried to offload him. in his heart alonso knows the reason even if he wont admit it to anyone else.
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=35598.msg937094#msg937094 date=1251877801]
"When the club proposed that I be sold to fund new players..."

Am I the only person who's read that bit properly?

We tried to sell him but were quite disrespectful to the player in the manner that we went about it. By the same token though Alonso had been piss poor for the best part of two seasons and has now walked out when we needed him most, it also took this kick up the arse for him to improve his form, and if he had a big move on his mind and that's what influenced his form, then fuck him.

Also that quote (from Alonso, who apparently hates Rafa after being so badly shit on by him) actually says "the club", not "Rafa", for a board that's big on quotes when speculating, that's one big fucking comment right there that's been massively overlooked by the usual Rafa antagonists.
[/quote]

Probably. Who cares it's only his side of the story for starters and he's had plenty of time to decide what he wants to say.
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

Bar a few die hard Alonoso fans, very few would have cared too much if Alonso was sold before the start of last season.

He happened to have played a blinder last year, but that's irrelevant in the context.

Fact is, I remember vividly hundreds of posts (over a 2 year span) supporting his sale.
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

Agreed with Sunny's post a lot

I've swung back and forth on where the blame lies on this issue, but I once labelled Alonso a "luxury we can no longer afford" so I could never blame Benitez for wanting to shift Alonso for Barry. I thought it was a fair move at the time, but I guess the moral of the story is quality never dies and it's worth sticking with these players because their so rare. That's what I've learned from the saga. But the child issue is ridiculous from Benitez and was something he should have resolved.

I also think Benitez could have kept him had he done enough but lacked the necessary skills to do so. He's not a man manager like Houllier was, and I see it as his failure to keep him. Sometimes a manager has to swallow his pride, logic too, for the good of the team. Critics of this can point to the public press statement but it clearly was a hollow gesture in Xabi's ears. As I said in the massive Alonso thread, a public press statement rings hollow if you're working relationship has been stretched for years. It doesn't suddenly change anything and put Benitez in the right.

It shouldn't be forgotten that Alonso loved the club and the fans, and he'll never be dead to me like Owen is. I miss him but life goes on and Aquilani will prove himself to be a fine signing, of that I'm certain.
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

[quote author=Mors link=topic=35598.msg937136#msg937136 date=1251881115]
I know it's like for like, but with the cash we got Xabi we've signed Aquaman and Johnson. I personally think Johnson is a better RB than Xabi is CM'r.

I also think we've got a crazy amount of money for him out of Madrid which is excellent business, considering last summer we'd have bit someone's hand off for 15mill.
[/quote]

You have to compare aquallani and alonso not johnson with alonso, thats just fucking daft.
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

[quote author=Terrier link=topic=35598.msg937196#msg937196 date=1251885933]
Bar a few die hard Alonoso fans, very few would have cared too much if Alonso was sold before the start of last season.

He happened to have played a blinder last year, but that's irrelevant in the context.

Fact is, I remember vividly hundreds of posts (over a 2 year span) supporting his sale.
[/quote]

Exactly, and after one good season he's the new Zidane and our slow start is all down to him. I wish all the best to Xabi, and we raped Madrid for him for a change. But before he even went I was worried he'd return back to the mediocre form again if he stayed.

He was a lot better last season than in the previous two, but I don't think he was fantastic in every game, far from it. 30mill is a good deal. And if we dropped Gerrard back into the middle and played Yossi in Gerrard's role - We'd all be like 'Xabi who?'. We might be saying that if Aquaman ever gets fit.
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

[quote author=ankreds link=topic=35598.msg937203#msg937203 date=1251886477]
[quote author=Mors link=topic=35598.msg937136#msg937136 date=1251881115]
I know it's like for like, but with the cash we got Xabi we've signed Aquaman and Johnson. I personally think Johnson is a better RB than Xabi is CM'r.

I also think we've got a crazy amount of money for him out of Madrid which is excellent business, considering last summer we'd have bit someone's hand off for 15mill.
[/quote]

You have to compare aquallani and alonso not johnson with alonso, thats just fucking daft.
[/quote]

I'm not comparing them directly, I'm just saying that the money for Alonso has paid for them both, and there's a very good chance that those two when fit will make far more of a difference to our team than a sometimes in form Alonso.
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

they way Alonso left and the timing of it .. left a sour taste in my mouth...

However... as for Aquallani I am praying he isn't Dossena MK 2...



BTW the old Alonso thread... why hasn't it been vaulted yet ?
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

very professional of alonso there. i actually think he'd make a great liverpool manager one day
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35598.msg936987#msg936987 date=1251848233]
Its saying what we all knew, well, most of us with half a brain. The love was lost, and the dice were cast when Xabi refused to travel when his wife was due, Rafa never forgave him and would off-load him ASAP. Xabi was miffed by that and would leave sooner rather than later on his terms.
I think it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. In my opinion, Xabi should have travelled, Rafa should not be such a control freak, and looked at the bigger picture.
To add the concluding bit.............
Rafa cried crocodile tears about Xabi going, he just wanted as much money as possible for him. It blew up in Rafa's face when G&T clung on to the proceeds though.

regards
[/quote]

I don't know Vlad. I think the birth of your child is good enough reason to not go to a game. Carra said in his book he missed the birth of his first child and basically said it was possibly his biggest regret.
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

Nothing new from Alonso. Rafa has only a distant, professional relationship with his players.
Nothing wrong with this but nowadays with these prima donnas you need more than that.
Rafa's man management skills are not his best asset and that creates problems with some players.
£30M for Alonso was a very good deal. Using that money to buy an injury prone Italian that wont be fit before October wasnt the best idea.
Its De Rossi we should have gone for.
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

[quote author=jono@home link=topic=35598.msg936976#msg936976 date=1251846606]
'There have been a lot of rumours but as I've said before, it was a professional relationship. I have always tried to do what he asked me to do on the pitch. When the birth of my child happened, I had to take a decision to be with my family because it was an important moment. Last summer when the club proposed that I had to be sold to buy new players it was a difficult moment, but I accepted it as a professional. That moment changed my mind, from that moment it was time for a change'.

So according to this article... Benitez was arguably pretty much to blame for him leaving...

but then it was from sky sports...

full article...

http://www.skysports.com/tv_show/story/0,20144,12385_5530854,00.html


[/quote]

Confirms what I already knew.
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

I think no one's denying he wanted to leave.

He's wanted to go since the Barry issue, that much is clear.
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=35598.msg937281#msg937281 date=1251891058]
I think no one's denying he wanted to leave.

He's wanted to go since the Barry issue, that much is clear.


[/quote]

It was obvious last summer and the way he was treated by Rafa was the reason he wanted to leave this summer. Who can blame him.
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

[quote author=GOD_23 link=topic=35598.msg937220#msg937220 date=1251887550]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=35598.msg936987#msg936987 date=1251848233]
Its saying what we all knew, well, most of us with half a brain. The love was lost, and the dice were cast when Xabi refused to travel when his wife was due, Rafa never forgave him and would off-load him ASAP. Xabi was miffed by that and would leave sooner rather than later on his terms.
I think it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. In my opinion, Xabi should have travelled, Rafa should not be such a control freak, and looked at the bigger picture.
To add the concluding bit.............
Rafa cried crocodile tears about Xabi going, he just wanted as much money as possible for him. It blew up in Rafa's face when G&T clung on to the proceeds though.

regards
[/quote]

I don't know Vlad. I think the birth of your child is good enough reason to not go to a game. Carra said in his book he missed the birth of his first child and basically said it was possibly his biggest regret.
[/quote]

That's one of the downsides of being a footballing millionaire and your family being financially secure forever.
I am sure if any of us, Carra included, had the choice of being there at the birth of our kids, or seeing them in clover for the rest of their lives, I know which one I would take, here is a clue-the first one would be very selfish.

Anyway this having to be there at the birth and holding the wife's hand, is a relatively new "modern man" phenomenon anyways.

regards
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

[quote author=Anita link=topic=35598.msg937283#msg937283 date=1251891174]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=35598.msg937281#msg937281 date=1251891058]
I think no one's denying he wanted to leave.

He's wanted to go since the Barry issue, that much is clear.


[/quote]

It was obvious last summer and the way he was treated by Rafa was the reason he wanted to leave this summer. Who can blame him.
[/quote]

I don't, but Rafa had a reason for that.

regards
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=35598.msg937290#msg937290 date=1251891505]
Can't wait to see what happens at Real once he has a loss of form.
[/quote]

We buy him back at half the price and he admits he never should have left.
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

[quote author=StevieM link=topic=35598.msg937297#msg937297 date=1251892013]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=35598.msg937290#msg937290 date=1251891505]
Can't wait to see what happens at Real once he has a loss of form.
[/quote]

We buy him back at half the price and he admits he never should have left.
[/quote]

He'll have to crawl back over broken glass from Madrid, flagellating himself with the LFC stationary gift set as he does so. Then, and only then, I'll take him back as a bench option.
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

[quote author=Anita link=topic=35598.msg937283#msg937283 date=1251891174]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=35598.msg937281#msg937281 date=1251891058]
I think no one's denying he wanted to leave.

He's wanted to go since the Barry issue, that much is clear.


[/quote]

It was obvious last summer and the way he was treated by Rafa was the reason he wanted to leave this summer. Who can blame him.
[/quote]

I can. And do.
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=35598.msg937290#msg937290 date=1251891505]
Can't wait to see what happens at Real once he has a loss of form they find a more marketable CM who will sell more shirts.
[/quote]
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=35598.msg937307#msg937307 date=1251893315]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=35598.msg937283#msg937283 date=1251891174]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=35598.msg937281#msg937281 date=1251891058]
I think no one's denying he wanted to leave.

He's wanted to go since the Barry issue, that much is clear.


[/quote]

It was obvious last summer and the way he was treated by Rafa was the reason he wanted to leave this summer. Who can blame him.
[/quote]

I can. And do.
[/quote]


me too
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=35598.msg937304#msg937304 date=1251892988]
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=35598.msg937297#msg937297 date=1251892013]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=35598.msg937290#msg937290 date=1251891505]
Can't wait to see what happens at Real once he has a loss of form.
[/quote]

We buy him back at half the price and he admits he never should have left.
[/quote]

He'll have to crawl back over broken glass from Madrid, flagellating himself with the LFC stationary gift set as he does so. Then, and only then, I'll take him back as a bench option.
[/quote]

Hey.. some people would have taken Owen back.. we'd welcome Alonso back easily.

Particularly if it includede a swap deal involving Lucas plus cash.

All we have to do is make Lucas a marketeers dream.
 
Re: Alonso on Bentiez...

I have no problems with a player wanting to leave.

If he doesn't want to be at the club, then leave.

But to do so within 2 weeks of the season opener was disgusting.
 
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