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Two cunts announce losses of £42.6m

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[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33990.msg882494#msg882494 date=1244152398]
So whats the likely outcome then? A third investor to come on board shortly?
[/quote]

That would be preferable, ideally Share Liverpool. That way the Yanks shareholding gets diluted and cash is directly invested into the club - which could be used for the stadium.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33990.msg882500#msg882500 date=1244152847]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33990.msg882494#msg882494 date=1244152398]
So whats the likely outcome then? A third investor to come on board shortly?
[/quote]

That would be preferable, ideally Share Liverpool. That way the Yanks shareholding gets diluted and cash is directly invested into the club - which could be used for the stadium.

[/quote]

Is that likely though Rosco? I can remember that being talked about quite some time ago as a potential option, but it seems to have gone all quiet.
 
I don't know to be honest.

The Yanks will know that's the best option, and they've tried for it before but because of their rocky relationship neither will probably want to be in the position where the other can turn on them by teaming up with the new shareholder.

I don't even know what the situation is with Share Liverpool either, how much did they get in promises ?
 
the likely outcome is what ive been saying for ages: administration

the yanks are so deluded any investors they've talked to have already concluded it will be better for bankruptcy and administration to go forward before they get involved and that is the sad truth. they want to buy us from the banks

i've been saying this for many months, they screwed us over last year. had they admitted the game was up and sold us on we would have been prepared to get our top targets this week but the cunts want to drag it on for as long as possible which will hurt us next season as we'll be lucky to do anything in the transfer market.


utter horrible, deluded cunts and they're dragging the club down with them. they remind me of the Prime Minister, the game is up but they'll hang on probably till the last minute and if they can't sort themselves out they will have to go into administration which means 10 point deducation and thrown out of the CL but i suspect they will do a last minute deal (which they should have done 6 months ago) just before that, at least I hope.
 
no chance of administration my friend, no chance.

But what wankers, IMHO. Leveraged buyout HORSESHITE.
 
Build the stadium and the problem goes away. Some belt tightening required in the mean time. Getting players from the academy instead of from the transfer market will be order of the day to tide us over. Just like Arsenal did. It looks worse in black and white but we all knew this anyway.
 
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882429#msg882429 date=1244148070]
A good amount of money for us is peanuts compared to our rivals. A few hit and miss signings aside, which is always the case when you have to wheel and deal, Rafa is massively overachieving, and if he wanted to he could walk into any top job in football and leave us in the lurch.
[/quote]

There is a manager in Liverpool who's 'over-achieving',but it's not Rafa.
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=33990.msg882568#msg882568 date=1244161789]
the likely outcome is what ive been saying for ages: administration
[/quote]

That's the least likely option.
 
How sweet would it be if trying to hold on to us ultimately leads them to financial ruin.
Probably the stadia would be delayed but in the grand scheme of things it looks like even if the stadium is built by them we would find ourselves in an "arsenal" situation.
 
[quote author=DCH link=topic=33990.msg882606#msg882606 date=1244182439]
How sweet would it be if trying to hold on to us ultimately leads them to financial ruin.
Probably the stadia would be delayed but in the grand scheme of things it looks like even if the stadium is built by them we would find ourselves in an "arsenal" situation.


[/quote]

We're in exactly the samde position as United.

Neither of us can afford the finance deals that the owners saddled us with
 
[quote author=DCH link=topic=33990.msg882606#msg882606 date=1244182439]
How sweet would it be if trying to hold on to us ultimately leads them to financial ruin.
Probably the stadia would be delayed but in the grand scheme of things it looks like even if the stadium is built by them we would find ourselves in an "arsenal" situation.


[/quote]

An arsenal situation being a properly run club that is having to live within their means temporarily.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=33990.msg882608#msg882608 date=1244182595]
[quote author=DCH link=topic=33990.msg882606#msg882606 date=1244182439]
How sweet would it be if trying to hold on to us ultimately leads them to financial ruin.
Probably the stadia would be delayed but in the grand scheme of things it looks like even if the stadium is built by them we would find ourselves in an "arsenal" situation.


[/quote]

We're in exactly the samde position as United.

Neither of us can afford the finance deals that the owners saddled us with
[/quote]

I would go as far as to say that our situation is more dire than those scums unfortunately. They seem to be expanding their dump every other season while our spade that's suppose to be in the ground is not even bought yet.

They have flexibility when it comes to their finances but for us, new owners have to also undertake not only the debt the two clowns have saddled us with but also the cost of building the new stadium.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=33990.msg882610#msg882610 date=1244182726]
[quote author=DCH link=topic=33990.msg882606#msg882606 date=1244182439]
How sweet would it be if trying to hold on to us ultimately leads them to financial ruin.
Probably the stadia would be delayed but in the grand scheme of things it looks like even if the stadium is built by them we would find ourselves in an "arsenal" situation.


[/quote]

An arsenal situation being a properly run club that is having to live within their means temporarily.
[/quote]

By temporarily meaning the period just before the stadium being built and the period just after. Probably a span of 6 years without winning anything? Not to mention the miracle worker wenger is.

I cannot live with Liverpool not winning anything for another 6 years but apparently that is what our current owners are willing to see through if they have the financial means.
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=33990.msg882568#msg882568 date=1244161789]
the likely outcome is what ive been saying for ages: administration

the yanks are so deluded any investors they've talked to have already concluded it will be better for bankruptcy and administration to go forward before they get involved and that is the sad truth. they want to buy us from the banks

i've been saying this for many months, they screwed us over last year. had they admitted the game was up and sold us on we would have been prepared to get our top targets this week but the cunts want to drag it on for as long as possible which will hurt us next season as we'll be lucky to do anything in the transfer market.


utter horrible, deluded cunts and they're dragging the club down with them. they remind me of the Prime Minister, the game is up but they'll hang on probably till the last minute and if they can't sort themselves out they will have to go into administration which means 10 point deducation and thrown out of the CL but i suspect they will do a last minute deal (which they should have done 6 months ago) just before that, at least I hope.


[/quote]

I think before going to administration the price of LFC will drop to a level acceptable for a couple of investors. The reason they are holding on to us right now is that both G&H view as the most profitable asset in the long term. That is why they are actively trying to sell of their assets in USA & Canada.
 
[quote author=DCH link=topic=33990.msg882615#msg882615 date=1244183119]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=33990.msg882610#msg882610 date=1244182726]
[quote author=DCH link=topic=33990.msg882606#msg882606 date=1244182439]
How sweet would it be if trying to hold on to us ultimately leads them to financial ruin.
Probably the stadia would be delayed but in the grand scheme of things it looks like even if the stadium is built by them we would find ourselves in an "arsenal" situation.


[/quote]

An arsenal situation being a properly run club that is having to live within their means temporarily.
[/quote]

By temporarily meaning the period just before the stadium being built and the period just after. Probably a span of 6 years without winning anything? Not to mention the miracle worker wenger is.

I cannot live with Liverpool not winning anything for another 6 years but apparently that is what our current owners are willing to see through if they have the financial means.
[/quote]

It's in the owners best interest to build a stadium or to sell, otherwise they can't increase the value of their asset. If they didn't think they could either achieve this or sell once its being put in place, then they'd have sold already. Hopefully they still will.

There's no reason why we couldn't win things and build a stadium... though it certainly would reduce our spending power. If you don't accept that, basically what you are saying is "I want a sugar daddy owner" or "I want an owner who can absorb huge debt". I don't think we need that. We can do it the old fashioned way.

The owners can't continue delaying the inevitable... the fact that they have has been damaging, but it suggests that they think they can see a way out, one way or the other.
 
Precisely farky. Their main interest is to get the stadium built and hope that we can be competitive. However, there is also the issue of the debt due to the purchase and the debt that will happen due to the cost of building the stadium which i fear will severely cripple our squad.

If we can get a sugar-daddy, doesn't mean we will become like chelsea or man city but our new owners can run us like a business but give us enough financial security to be competitive. And also we don't need a sugar-daddy to do that. Just owners who have enough financial clout to temporary take on the additional burden for either the purchase of the club or the stadium.

GG by wanting to sell only to get veto-ed I think speaks volumes of the situation we have regarding the owner's options for us. Frankly, I'm worried.
 
Anfield anquish
Fast action must be taken or Reds will miss out on big-name players

Warning: Professor Cannon

Professor Tom Cannon believes Liverpool owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett must sell off some of their other assets if they are to ease the club's financial woes.

Liverpool fans are fearing the worst following the announcement that despite a record turnover, the Anfield club's net debt has nearly doubled to £86million.

Auditors have warned Gillett and Hicks that failure to refinance a £350million loan - due on July 24 - "may cast significant doubt upon the group's ability to continue as a going concern".

Speaking to Sky Sports News, Professor Cannon said: "Accountants like KPMG don't use the kind of language they've used here lightly. They've talked about material concerns, they've warned about their ability to continue under the present basis. I don't think I've ever heard accountants talk about a top football club in this way before.

"Fans should be very concerned. In some senses the fans have delivered what they've been expected to do. Turnover and trading profit have both gone up, but I'm afraid the cost of debt and management fees have produced a deficit which is frankly very worrying given the turnover. You're talking about a loss of almost £40million on a turnover of £200million. That is very worrying."

The Reds currently have a deficit which is roughly a third of the company in terms of trading, which is a massive difference from Premier League rivals Manchester United, whose figures are in the range of £300million and have a trading deficit of around £20million.

Professor Cannon, who is professor of strategic development at Liverpool University's school of management, cites the interest charges as the most worrying element of Liverpool's plight.

Rate of interest
"They've got big debts but they're paying about £35million in interest," he explained. "We all know how interest rates have declined in the past year but Liverpool seem to be paying a rate that is over 10 per cent. This is at a rate where people are borrowing money at rates of around two and three per cent. It just goes to show how hard it has been to renegotiate the extension of their funding. In July they will be under pressure to renegotiate a much better deal.

"I think the pressure on Hicks and Gillett to bring in another investor is too hard to resist. Whether another investor will come in under the type of conditions Hicks and Gillett seem to be asking I don't know. It's more likely Hicks will sell some of his interest in the Texas Rangers or the Montreal Canadians. They desperately need new finance, not least to take the burden of this debt and the related interest. They can't seriously think in terms of another six-month extension this July; they need long term secure financing."

Liverpool are already counting the cost of their off-the-field troubles. This week they missed out on Gareth Barry, a player who last season publicly stated he wished to move to Anfield but has now instead gone to moneybags Manchester City. They have been heavily linked with a move for Portsmouth's £2million-rated defender Silvin Distin but Professor Cannon believes that unless finances improve, they will miss out on big-name players this summer.


Conditions
He said: "We now understand why they didn't compete even more vigorously for Gareth Barry. They were talking of paying £18million for him last summer; the difference now is something that has been clearly shaped by these figures. I think Rafa Benitez is in a very powerful position; he has a lot to offer players who might want to come in, but he will clearly be operating under very strict trading conditions in terms of anybody he wants to sign.

"This is certainly going to hit Benitez's budget significantly. Most people around Merseyside thought he would sign Barry, which would have produced a phenomenal midfield with Gerrard and Mascherano. Unless they can sell Alonso or do more in the buying and selling then they're clearly going to be operating under straightened conditions.

"You might argue that they need some support for Torres, who is not only a phenomenal player but one who you either need to be playing every week or have a quality support for him. They are in a position to push on but the truth of the matter is they'll do so with a much tighter budget than that of their rivals.

"It's hard to see how they could buy the quality of player at the price they will go for this summer without selling. It looks like Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester City are going to be spending money; well Liverpool are going to have to spend money to stay where they were, which is the main rival to Manchester United."
 
Cannon was no doubt vigorously knocking one out while giving that interview.

I think they'll get an extentsion to the current deal but then we'll have all this again in 6 months. They're out of their depth and should cut and run, even if means no profit.
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=33990.msg882568#msg882568 date=1244161789]
the likely outcome is what ive been saying for ages: administration

the yanks are so deluded any investors they've talked to have already concluded it will be better for bankruptcy and administration to go forward before they get involved and that is the sad truth. they want to buy us from the banks

i've been saying this for many months, they screwed us over last year. had they admitted the game was up and sold us on we would have been prepared to get our top targets this week but the cunts want to drag it on for as long as possible which will hurt us next season as we'll be lucky to do anything in the transfer market.


utter horrible, deluded cunts and they're dragging the club down with them. they remind me of the Prime Minister, the game is up but they'll hang on probably till the last minute and if they can't sort themselves out they will have to go into administration which means 10 point deducation and thrown out of the CL but i suspect they will do a last minute deal (which they should have done 6 months ago) just before that, at least I hope.






[/quote]

Is the sky falling where you are ?
 
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882764#msg882764 date=1244198466]
Cannon was no doubt vigorously knocking one out while giving that interview.

I think they'll get an extentsion to the current deal but then we'll have all this again in 6 months. They're out of their depth and should cut and run, even if means no profit.
[/quote]

That muppet has been foretelling our doom for yonks,tho.

Still,we could use some better news :(
 
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882764#msg882764 date=1244198466]
Cannon was no doubt vigorously knocking one out while giving that interview.

I think they'll get an extentsion to the current deal but then we'll have all this again in 6 months. They're out of their depth and should cut and run, even if means no profit.
[/quote]

Why does he get wheeled out every time are business matters are being discussed ?

Bitter blue twat head etc...
 
No new stadium. A huge debt. Despite their promises, Hicks and Gillett have 'done a Glazers'Tom Hicks and George Gillett claimed they were different to Manchester United's owners, but they have betrayed their promises to Liverpool's fans


When contemplating the hideous financial figures released yesterday by Liverpool Football Club and the owners' holding company, Kop Football, memories drift instinctively back to the promises Tom Hicks and George Gillett made when they swept into the club triumphantly two years ago. Then, it was all smiles, scarves, and warm words. The pair gushed about Liverpool's marvellous heritage; the Kop, which, clearly, they had been carefully briefed to namecheck, and out there on the Anfield pitch they did pretty well to restrain themselves from calling the great English football club a franchise.

Nothing was straightforwardly said about the blatant fact that the pair were financing their £185m takeover with borrowed money, or that the club itself would then be made to pay off those loans. The pair did, however, tell fans they were not going to "do a Glazers". Yet as these accounts now confirm, that is exactly what they did.

The Glazer family bought Manchester United in 2005 in the teeth of bitter opposition from fans who understood that their club would be laden with the debts the new owners had borrowed to take it over. At Liverpool, the fans, desperate for success and change, largely accepted the patter and the assurances that the pair were different from the Americans who bought United, and Hicks and Gillett were welcomed into the boss seats at Anfield.

It is vital to remember why Liverpool was for sale in the first place. It was done solely so that the club could build a new stadium of a size to compete with Manchester United, who have 76,000 paying fans at Old Trafford, Arsenal, who make packets at the 60,000-seat Emirates Stadium, and Chelsea, who have Roman Abramovich's wallet. Liverpool's chairman, David Moores, and chief executive, Rick Parry, believed they could not borrow the necessary money to build a new stadium without a rich backer standing behind the club.

Moores personally made £90m from selling to Hicks and Gillett the majority shareholding he bought for very much less, back in the days when the Kop was a terrace and young people from the local area could afford to stand on it. Around Anfield, an economically blighted neighbourhood marked by rows of boarded up streets, regeneration plans are based around the proposed new stadium. Yet there is no sight nor sound of the money to build it, and that is the deepest betrayal of the tenure of these two owners.

The accounts, in some ways, confirmed what we already knew. Hicks and Gillett did "do a Glazers"; they have taken out a £350m loan to cover their initial takeover, fund player signings and running costs, and by January this year had spent £313m of it. The club itself, which enjoyed a bumper year in 2007-08, had to provide £36.5m to pay the interest on that. With so much money already borrowed, nobody believes another £400m will be available from banks to fund the new Anfield.

Despite what appears a stark warning from the auditors, KPMG, of "material uncertainty" casting "significant doubt" on Liverpool's ability to stay in business, the prospects are not in reality that dire. Hicks is confident the Royal Bank of Scotland will simply extend the £350m loan when it falls for renewal next month, and in the current climate a customer able to pay £36.5m in interest a year looks good business for any bank.

Insiders point out that the club did invest in players during the year to July 2008 covered by the accounts, notably buying Albert Riera, Andrea Dossena and £20m Robbie Keane, and Liverpool finished second in the Premier League last season which will make them significantly more money. Hicks and Gillett provided £58m funding to the club in 2007-08, and they are committed to providing Rafael Benítez with £20m to spend this summer, whether from the club's increased income, further borrowing, or more of their own funds.

So Liverpool are not facing imminent collapse, but they are in £313m debt, still at Anfield, and nowhere near where they are supposed to be, two years after Hicks and Gillett walked on to the Anfield pitch, with red scarves round their necks, and painted a rosy red picture of the benefactors they would be.
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=33990.msg882829#msg882829 date=1244202751]
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882764#msg882764 date=1244198466]
Cannon was no doubt vigorously knocking one out while giving that interview.

I think they'll get an extentsion to the current deal but then we'll have all this again in 6 months. They're out of their depth and should cut and run, even if means no profit.
[/quote]

Why does he get wheeled out every time are business matters are being discussed ?

Bitter blue twat head etc...
[/quote]

Fucking hell, he's going to be on Talksport in a bit.
 
From the times:
Pre-construction work on the new site at Stanley Park was halted indefinitely last September, with the owners citing the unfavourable conditions in the global financial market.

In the accounts, however, they say that opening is “delayed until 2012†and that a revised planning application, with a view to raising the capacity from 60,000 to 73,000, will be submitted imminently

So we started digging and then stopped?
 
[quote author=Ossi link=topic=33990.msg882841#msg882841 date=1244203829]
From the times:
Pre-construction work on the new site at Stanley Park was halted indefinitely last September, with the owners citing the unfavourable conditions in the global financial market.

In the accounts, however, they say that opening is “delayed until 2012†and that a revised planning application, with a view to raising the capacity from 60,000 to 73,000, will be submitted imminently

So we started digging and then stopped?
[/quote]

Yeah, apparently we bought 6 shovels and a wheelbarrow and then our money ran out.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33990.msg882842#msg882842 date=1244203981]
[quote author=Ossi link=topic=33990.msg882841#msg882841 date=1244203829]
From the times:
Pre-construction work on the new site at Stanley Park was halted indefinitely last September, with the owners citing the unfavourable conditions in the global financial market.

In the accounts, however, they say that opening is “delayed until 2012†and that a revised planning application, with a view to raising the capacity from 60,000 to 73,000, will be submitted imminently

So we started digging and then stopped?
[/quote]

Yeah, apparently we bought 6 shovels and a wheelbarrow and then our money ran out.
[/quote]

Wonder how much we have paid the construction entrepreneurs...for nothing.
 
[quote author=Paddy link=topic=33990.msg882375#msg882375 date=1244144782]
[quote author=Benzo-13 link=topic=33990.msg882370#msg882370 date=1244144535]
>:(

Gotta get rid of these two pronto.
[/quote]

Mate, gotta agree with you.
Over the past couple of years, it's almost all been bad news.
Maybe DCI or whoever will make their move soon.
Only thing I know is that it can't happen too soon.
[/quote]

*sigh*
 
Reds owners 'relaxed' over debt

Tom Hicks and George Gillett may face some tough decisions regarding their involvement at Anfield - but Liverpool's future is not under threat.

Liverpool's American owners have just over six weeks to agree a refinancing package on the loan they took out to buy the Premier League side in 2007.

Accountants KPMG expressed concern over the level of debt being incurred by Kop Football Holdings, Liverpool's parent company, after it posted losses of £42.6million in the year ending July 2008.

Most of that was a result of £36million of interest payments on a loan of £350million - which has to be renegotiated by July 24.

However, suggestions Liverpool are facing financial meltdown have been dismissed by sources close to the American duo as "totally wide of the mark".

The club itself posted profits of £10.2million but that was swallowed up by the huge interest payments of the parent company.

"The owners seem remarkably relaxed about it, which can only be a good sign," an insider said.

"There is no threat to the club. Liverpool's profitability and profits are up.

"There are other clubs who are considerably more in debt than Liverpool are."

Hicks and Gillett are confident they can refinance the loan in time for the July deadline.

However, leading football financial experts believe in the long term they need a huge influx of cash from outside or they will have to sell up.

In January Kuwaiti billionaire Nasser Al-Kharafi offered £425million for overall control but the Americans only want to sell 50% - which will prove a significant hurdle to further investment.

"It is quite difficult but not impossible to get debt refinanced but it is absolutely not the ideal time to be negotiating debt positions," said Vinay Bedi, divisional director of investment management firm Brewin Dolphin based in Newcastle.

"They wouldn't be short of banks to turn to but the bank would make it very much on their terms - all companies that have restructured their debt deals in the last few weeks have got very onerous restrictions."

However, Bedi does not believe the club is close to going under.

"It does create an element of financial risk to the business because it is not a good position but the credibility of English football would be badly tarnished," he added.

"For one of the top four clubs to be in this position is not particularly ideal but I wouldn't have thought the bank would want to call in the debt.

"I don't think anyone genuinely believes Liverpool will not be playing in the Premier League and Champions League next season - it is just a question of who is running it and how it is structured."

Bedi said that if Hicks and Gillett did decide to sell there would be a number of interested parties - at the right price.

"From an overseas point of view there are probably people to buy it as there is a better economic attraction because of the exchange rate," he said.

"The Premier League is still the best market for marketing yourself across the world and the fact Liverpool are one of the key clubs in the Champions League makes it an added attraction."

Another leading analyst, Professor Tom Cannon, believes Hicks and Gillett may have to sell their interest in their American sport franchises or even cash in on some of Liverpool's most saleable assets.

Midfielder Xabi Alonso is a reported £23million target for Real Madrid while Argentina captain Javier Mascherano is said to be interesting Champions League winners Barcelona.

"It is almost hard to imagine they can resist the pressure on them to bring in another investor," Cannon, professor of strategic development at Liverpool University's school of management, told Sky Sports News.

"But whether another investor will come in on the type of conditions Hicks and Gillett seem to be asking is open to question.

"I think it is more likely Hicks will sell some of his interest in the Texas Rangers (baseball team) or (Gillett will sell) the Montreal Canadiens (ice hockey team).

"Unless they either sell Alonso or do more buying and selling then they will be operating in very difficult conditions.

"They desperately need new finances, not least to take the burden of this debt and the related interest.

"They can't really seriously think in terms of another six-month extension, they need long-term secure financing."

Paul Rice, chairman of the leading fans group Spirit of Shankly, called on the Royal Bank of Scotland - with whom the Americans have their loan - to call in the debt.

"The revelations underline Hicks and Gillett's utter failure as owners," he told the Liverpool Echo.

"We urge Royal Bank of Scotland to not refinance the loan and instead seek more responsible and appropriate custodians for Liverpool Football Club.

"All an extension would do is deepen the club's problems."
 
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