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Two cunts announce losses of £42.6m

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[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=33990.msg882381#msg882381 date=1244145125]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=33990.msg882372#msg882372 date=1244144624]
Loads of newbies these days...
[/quote]

Good, maybe they'll teach some of our more established posters a thing or two about football.

Welcome to the site Benzo-13.
[/quote]

Well that they possibly might, they are giving us some serious and erudite insight into football finance and Club ownership

regards
 
Thank fuck Rafa is loyal. I'm sure he could have his pick of the top jobs in Spain and Italy without all this bargain basement bollocks.
 
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882409#msg882409 date=1244146591]
Thank fuck Rafa is loyal. I'm sure he could have his pick of the top jobs in Spain and Italy without all this bargain basement bollocks.
[/quote]

Er... despite our debt, our expenditure on players is amongst the top.

If we did have competent (not sugardaddy) ownership, we'd be building a stadium. We'd have debt toward the stadium, and we'd be limited in our expenditure on players because of that. The problem isn't that we don't invest enough on the squad, its that we are assuming debt without it improving our future earnings in any way.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=33990.msg882412#msg882412 date=1244146880]
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882409#msg882409 date=1244146591]
Thank fuck Rafa is loyal. I'm sure he could have his pick of the top jobs in Spain and Italy without all this bargain basement bollocks.
[/quote]

Er... despite our debt, our expenditure on players is amongst the top.
[/quote]

Sure it is. That's why we're scrambling around trying to raise funds for heavyweights like Tuncay.

Without Rafa we'd be fucked.
 
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882413#msg882413 date=1244147184]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=33990.msg882412#msg882412 date=1244146880]
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882409#msg882409 date=1244146591]
Thank fuck Rafa is loyal. I'm sure he could have his pick of the top jobs in Spain and Italy without all this bargain basement bollocks.
[/quote]

Er... despite our debt, our expenditure on players is amongst the top.
[/quote]

Sure it is. That's why we're scrambling around trying to raise funds for heavyweights like Tuncay.

Without Rafa we'd be fucked.
[/quote]

We haven't made any purchases yet.

We can't compete with the likes of City, Chelsea and Real. Neither can any sensibly run club that is attempting to make a profit. I guarantee we'll spend a good amount of money this summer, probably more than all but 2 or 3 English clubs at the most.

The idea that Rafa is stretching his money like a Mormon housewife is pretty stupid. First of all he's spent a good amount of money. Second of all, just this last summer, he spent it very poorly, wasting several million.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=33990.msg882422#msg882422 date=1244147679]
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882413#msg882413 date=1244147184]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=33990.msg882412#msg882412 date=1244146880]
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882409#msg882409 date=1244146591]
Thank fuck Rafa is loyal. I'm sure he could have his pick of the top jobs in Spain and Italy without all this bargain basement bollocks.
[/quote]

Er... despite our debt, our expenditure on players is amongst the top.
[/quote]

Sure it is. That's why we're scrambling around trying to raise funds for heavyweights like Tuncay.

Without Rafa we'd be fucked.
[/quote]

We haven't made any purchases yet.

We can't compete with the likes of City, Chelsea and Real. Neither can any sensibly run club that is attempting to make a profit. I guarantee we'll spend a good amount of money this summer, probably more than all but 2 or 3 English clubs at the most.

The idea that Rafa is stretching his money like a Mormon housewife is pretty stupid. First of all he's spent a good amount of money. Second of all, just this last summer, he spent it very poorly, wasting several million.
[/quote]I do hope Rafa is good as his word and gets a deal or two done quickly. Not coz im worried or all that arsed, but just to chill everyone the fuck out.
Im kool and the gang, we're already ready to win the league.
 
A good amount of money for us is peanuts compared to our rivals. A few hit and miss signings aside, which is always the case when you have to wheel and deal, Rafa is massively overachieving, and if he wanted to he could walk into any top job in football and leave us in the lurch.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33990.msg882426#msg882426 date=1244147992]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=33990.msg882422#msg882422 date=1244147679]
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882413#msg882413 date=1244147184]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=33990.msg882412#msg882412 date=1244146880]
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882409#msg882409 date=1244146591]
Thank fuck Rafa is loyal. I'm sure he could have his pick of the top jobs in Spain and Italy without all this bargain basement bollocks.
[/quote]

Er... despite our debt, our expenditure on players is amongst the top.
[/quote]

Sure it is. That's why we're scrambling around trying to raise funds for heavyweights like Tuncay.

Without Rafa we'd be fucked.
[/quote]

We haven't made any purchases yet.

We can't compete with the likes of City, Chelsea and Real. Neither can any sensibly run club that is attempting to make a profit. I guarantee we'll spend a good amount of money this summer, probably more than all but 2 or 3 English clubs at the most.

The idea that Rafa is stretching his money like a Mormon housewife is pretty stupid. First of all he's spent a good amount of money. Second of all, just this last summer, he spent it very poorly, wasting several million.
[/quote]I do hope Rafa is good as his word and gets a deal or two done quickly. Not coz im worried or all that arsed, but just to chill everyone the fuck out.
Im kool and the gang, we're already ready to win the league.
[/quote]

'oh yes its ladies night, and I feel alright, oh yes its ladies night, oh what a night, oh what a night'
 
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882429#msg882429 date=1244148070]
A good amount of money for us is peanuts compared to our rivals. A few hit and miss signings aside, which is always the case when you have to wheel and deal, Rafa is massively overachieving, and if he wanted to he could walk into any top job in football and leave us in the lurch.
[/quote]

How much do you think a Liverpool manager needs these days to compete for the title?
 
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882409#msg882409 date=1244146591]
Thank fuck Rafa is loyal. I'm sure he could have his pick of the top jobs in Spain and Italy without all this bargain basement bollocks.
[/quote]

Welcome to the site mate! I have a feeling that I'm going to like you (as a poster).
 
I thought it was a bit suspect that they announced a profit of 10m in the media last week, but then delayed the filing of the accounts by a week - possibly in the hope that the media would have something else to talk about and forget about this.


An important part of the accounts :

Financial Year Ending 2008 2007 2006
Purchases 69,966 69,972 41,753
Sales 29,740 25,946 16,838
Net Transfer Activity 40,226 44,026 24,915

These values include relevant levies to the premier league, VAT and agents fees. Signing on fees go straight to the Profit & Loss at time of payment.

Since the year end Albert Riera, Peter Gulasci and Victor Palsson were bought by the club for total transfer fees of £7m (I assume this includes VAT and agents fees, but am not certain)

Since the year end the club sold Robbie Keane and Steve Finnan for a total guaranteed income of £12.8m. However this amount will increase significantly should certain conditions be met.


And again the accounts show that for all the moaning people on here do about merchandising and capitalising on the brand and how we've failed to do that, the real difference is in matchday revenues. We're 60m a year behind United in that regard.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=33990.msg882434#msg882434 date=1244148357]
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882429#msg882429 date=1244148070]
A good amount of money for us is peanuts compared to our rivals. A few hit and miss signings aside, which is always the case when you have to wheel and deal, Rafa is massively overachieving, and if he wanted to he could walk into any top job in football and leave us in the lurch.
[/quote]

How much do you think a Liverpool manager needs these days to compete for the title?
[/quote]

Enough to get his main targets and compete in the top bracket. We can no longer expect to challenge for the title in name only, and given our improvment last season, and inferior squad to those around us, I'd say he's exceding realistic expectations.
 
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882441#msg882441 date=1244148763]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=33990.msg882434#msg882434 date=1244148357]
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882429#msg882429 date=1244148070]
A good amount of money for us is peanuts compared to our rivals. A few hit and miss signings aside, which is always the case when you have to wheel and deal, Rafa is massively overachieving, and if he wanted to he could walk into any top job in football and leave us in the lurch.
[/quote]

How much do you think a Liverpool manager needs these days to compete for the title?
[/quote]

Enough to get his main targets and compete in the top bracket. We can no longer expect to challenge for the title in name only, and given our improvment last season, and inferior squad to those around us, I'd say he's exceding realistic expectations.
[/quote]

Great post and you're spot on.
 
We've got a squad that's good enough to win the title. It's hardly inferior.

Yes United have more striking options, but they'd kill to have our midfield trio.
 
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882441#msg882441 date=1244148763]
Enough to get his main targets and compete in the top bracket. We can no longer expect to challenge for the title in name only, and given our improvment last season, and inferior squad to those around us, I'd say he's exceding realistic expectations.
[/quote]

We've signed three players in and around the 20M mark in the last 12 months - that's hardly bargain basement shoppig - in addition to more than a few expensive squad players.

There is no doubting that he's got less margin for error in the transfer market but he has made some costly and very avoidable mistakes.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=33990.msg882447#msg882447 date=1244148941]
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882441#msg882441 date=1244148763]
Enough to get his main targets and compete in the top bracket. We can no longer expect to challenge for the title in name only, and given our improvment last season, and inferior squad to those around us, I'd say he's exceding realistic expectations.
[/quote]

We've signed three players in and around the 20M mark in the last 12 months
[/quote]

It's just a shame that the scum can afford to have 4/5 players who cost similar amounts sitting on the bench (or not even in the squad) for the CL final.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=33990.msg882447#msg882447 date=1244148941]
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882441#msg882441 date=1244148763]
Enough to get his main targets and compete in the top bracket. We can no longer expect to challenge for the title in name only, and given our improvment last season, and inferior squad to those around us, I'd say he's exceding realistic expectations.
[/quote]

We've signed three players in and around the 20M mark in the last 12 months - that's hardly bargain basement shoppig - in addition to more than a few expensive squad players.

There is no doubting that he's got less margin for error in the transfer market but he has made some costly and very avoidable mistakes.
[/quote]

Name me a manager who hasn't it?

Mistakes are inevitable in the transfer market, the difference is others can write them off without any detrimental effect on the team.

The squad depth is awful and it's testament to the managers abilities that we're even considered genuine challengers these days.

I'm no manager apologist, I still have issues with many of his methods, but when you see what a mess the club is in it's a reminder of the great job he's done, often with one hand tied behind his back.
 
It's true that other managers have been spending big money on players but Rafa has been doing the same along with them. 18-20M per player is not chump change.

It wasn't long ago that everyone was raving about our squad depth. The problem is that certain players have since been sold, bombed out or found out. I actually don't think the squad is *that* bad though - a couple shrewd additions would sort it out.
 
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882457#msg882457 date=1244149271]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=33990.msg882447#msg882447 date=1244148941]
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882441#msg882441 date=1244148763]
Enough to get his main targets and compete in the top bracket. We can no longer expect to challenge for the title in name only, and given our improvment last season, and inferior squad to those around us, I'd say he's exceding realistic expectations.
[/quote]

We've signed three players in and around the 20M mark in the last 12 months - that's hardly bargain basement shoppig - in addition to more than a few expensive squad players.

There is no doubting that he's got less margin for error in the transfer market but he has made some costly and very avoidable mistakes.
[/quote]

Name me a manager who hasn't it?

Mistakes are inevitable in the transfer market, the difference is others can write them off without any detrimental effect on the team.

The squad depth is awful and it's testament to the managers abilities that we're even considered genuine challengers these days.

I'm no manager apologist, I still have issues with many of his methods, but when you see what a mess the club is in it's a reminder of the great job he's done, often with one hand tied behind his back.
[/quote]

So the accounts show our manager spent 110m net over the last three years and the squad depth is awful. ]

Whose fault is that then ?
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=33990.msg882399#msg882399 date=1244145852]
I just skimmed through the article but did it not also say that they put 40M into the club?
[/quote]

I think it's actually £58m, and they did so in the form of debt rather than ordinary shares, which is why our debt figure rose.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=33990.msg882464#msg882464 date=1244149605]
It's true that other managers have been spending big money on players but Rafa has been doing the same along with them. 18-20M per player is not chump change.

It wasn't long ago that everyone was raving about our squad depth. The problem is that certain players have since been sold, bombed out or found out. I actually don't think the squad is *that* bad though - a couple shrewd additions would sort it out.
[/quote]

He's spent upwards of 20 million on two players in 5 seasons, one wasn't even his main target. Other than that he's had to wheel and deal and build a firm foundation on a budget that wouldn't look out of place at a lower mid table club, hence the revolving door of players and squad upheaval.

In the meantime, Ferguson spent upwards of 30 million on Berbatov and brought in Tevez to add to an already awesome attack and squad.

This arrogance that we are Liverpool and should expect to win the league does us no favours.
 
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882469#msg882469 date=1244150078]
He's spent upwards of 20 million on two players in 5 seasons, one wasn't even his main target. Other than that he's had to wheel and deal and build a firm foundation on a budget that wouldn't look out of place at a lower mid table club, hence the revolving door of players and squad upheaval.
[/quote]

You are talking absolute nonsense.

A budget akin to that of a lower mid table club? We've spent more than all but Man U and Chelsea. Man City will get added to that list.

He hemorrhaged 30M this last summer on two catastrophic failures and one decent signing. Does wheeling and dealing involve massively overpaying for a striker that is a poor fit, then selling them on at a loss?

If he can't afford to simply buy two quality players, which he can on his budget, it's because he's failed previously. Of course every manager fails, and he builds a good team, but if he can't get it right within this rebuild cycle, its on his head.
 
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882469#msg882469 date=1244150078]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=33990.msg882464#msg882464 date=1244149605]
It's true that other managers have been spending big money on players but Rafa has been doing the same along with them. 18-20M per player is not chump change.

It wasn't long ago that everyone was raving about our squad depth. The problem is that certain players have since been sold, bombed out or found out. I actually don't think the squad is *that* bad though - a couple shrewd additions would sort it out.
[/quote]

He's spent upwards of 20 million on two players in 5 seasons, one wasn't even his main target. Other than that he's had to wheel and deal and build a firm foundation on a budget that wouldn't look out of place at a lower mid table club, hence the revolving door of players and squad upheaval.

In the meantime, Ferguson spent upwards of 30 million on Berbatov and brought in Tevez to add to an already awesome attack and squad.

This arrogance that we are Liverpool and should expect to win the league does us no favours.
[/quote]

The accounts show that we've had a budget only bettered by Chelsea in the past few years.
 
[quote author=kenny link=topic=33990.msg882471#msg882471 date=1244150167]
We cant afford Distin at this rate.
[/quote]

Waaaaaahhhhh my club isn't signing sexy big names two weeks into the transfer season.
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=33990.msg882475#msg882475 date=1244150427]
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882469#msg882469 date=1244150078]
He's spent upwards of 20 million on two players in 5 seasons, one wasn't even his main target. Other than that he's had to wheel and deal and build a firm foundation on a budget that wouldn't look out of place at a lower mid table club, hence the revolving door of players and squad upheaval.
[/quote]

You are talking absolute nonsense.[/quote]

Who can argue with such insight. The net spend never tells the full story and is just a convinient excuse to undermine the manager.

When he first arrived he had to rebuild a woeful squad and waning club on a pittance, having to sell to buy, which is still the case today, and unable to shop in the top end of the market due to an inept chairman. Of course there's going to be mistakes with that kind of strategy.

It was only when the yanks came in was he able to finally open the purse strings a bit, although he still had to wheel and deal and offset any major purchaes with sales.

In the main, when he's had decent money to spend, he's spent it well. The main difference being he has little margin for error compared to those around him. See Berbatov, Nani, et all.
 
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882480#msg882480 date=1244151018]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=33990.msg882475#msg882475 date=1244150427]
[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=33990.msg882469#msg882469 date=1244150078]
He's spent upwards of 20 million on two players in 5 seasons, one wasn't even his main target. Other than that he's had to wheel and deal and build a firm foundation on a budget that wouldn't look out of place at a lower mid table club, hence the revolving door of players and squad upheaval.
[/quote]

You are talking absolute nonsense.[/quote]

Who can argue with such insight. The net spend never tells the full story and is just a convinient excuse to undermine the manager.

When he first arrived he had to rebuild a woeful squad and waning club on a pittance, having to sell to buy, which is still the case today, and unable to shop in the top end of the market due to an inept chairman. Of course there's going to be mistakes with that kind of strategy.

It was only when the yanks came in was he able to finally open the purse strings a bit, although he still had to wheel and deal and offset any major purchaes with sales.

In the main, when he's had decent money to spend, he's spent it well. The main difference being he has little margin for error compared to those around him.


[/quote]

Why don't you respond to the content of the post.

The net spend is one indicator amongst many of how much spending power a manager has. Rafa has made good and bad decisions, though this last transfer season was a massive failure. Every manager needs to offset major purchases with sales, if nothing else because the squad would be even more bloated otherwise. He's never had to sell a player he didn't want to, and he has made some massive failures, particularly this last summer.

You won't get any debate from me that he has got us in a better position than we were in, and you won't get any debate he has less margin for error than Chelsea/Man U, but the idea that he's not been adequately supported with player purchases is just not in the realm of reason. Unless we had an owner that didn't want to run this as a business, regardless of ownership, our player purchases would be around where they are now - until the stadium was built.
 
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