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The curious case of the RB who thought he was a CM

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[article]“My specific skill set and what I’m best at is someone who plays in the middle, someone who controls the game, controls the tempo, creates, breaks line, progresses the ball up the pitch,” said. “You probably get more out of me from being in the middle and I’m able to show off that skill set as much as possible. My role is to go and create and make things happen, control the game in the middle of the pitch, get the ball on to the attackers, play forward, run forward, goals, assists, create chances, get people off their seats."
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He seems completely sold on himself being a Pirlo-like midfielder.
 
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I think part of the idea of playing him in midfield as a DLP is that he doesn’t have to track back so much because he is stationed deeper (and more centrally of course) than an attacking RB. Our big vulnerability with him at RB was the space on the wing he left behind and wasn’t willing to track back into. As a Pirlo-like CM, if paired with someone like Rice, he can focus more on interceptions and turning defense into attack, which is his strength, and not have to be as positionally disciplined, which is what he always struggled with.
Yeah I understand that too, but I feel like he's more suited to play as a RCM
 
I guess that's the plan for England too.

DM: Rice
RCM: Trent
LCM: Bellers

I’m afraid Southgate is not nearly good enough of a tactician to make the Trent RCM playmaker role work. Even Klopp is struggling to find the optimal solution! Like I said, Trent doesn’t strike me as someone who just naturally knows what to do in midfield regardless of system and an opponent; you could see how he looked lost as part of the triangle with Gallagher and Hendo, but felt far more secure with Rice. He needs a manager willing to go into granular detail with him and everyone around to orchestrate every aspect of the build-up and pressing patterns to make this work. At a national team level that kind of attention to detail is almost impossible unless you’re Bielsa.
 
I’m afraid Southgate is not nearly good enough of a tactician to make the Trent RCM playmaker role work. Even Klopp is struggling to find the best solution! Like I said, Trent doesn’t strike me as someone who just naturally knows what to do in midfield regardless of system and an opponent; you could see how he looked lost as part of the triangle with Gallagher and Hendo, but felt far more secure with Rice. He needs a manager willing to go into granular detail with him and everyone to orchestrate every aspect of the build-up and pressing patterns to make this work. At a national team level that kind of attention to detail is almost impossible unless you’re Bielsa.
Klopp is struggling to find the right solution because he's trying to play Trent in any role except the RCM role, I'm guessing because he somehow wants to have both Macca and Szobo on the pitch too. What's missing? A DM.
That's the big difference with England. Rice is there to cover the middle. Trent can do his thing on the right and they have like eight RB to pick from while we've got Gomez and a bunch of kids. Of course Klopp is doing whatever he can to keep Trent at RB. Even playing Russian roulette with our defensive line.

Ideally, like in a football manager alternate universe, Klopp bought a top class RB and a top class DM last summer.
We line up like this:
Ali
Top class RB
Konate
Virg
Robbo
Top class DM
RCM: Trent
LCM: Szobo
+ Front 3

Where's Macca? On the bench, at Brighton? Don't know, don't care. Like I said in the summer, it was a "meh" signing.
 
With the ball, we’re playing a box midfield with TAA at the base alongside Ali Mac. Szoboszlai and Jones/Gravy tops the box. This way we can have a true number 9 in the team.

There’s not really a place for Nunez in our 4-3-3 because we need the central attacker to drop back to stop the midfield from being outnumbered in the way Bobby did.

Well, I think that’s the plan/idea anyway.
 
Klopp is struggling to find the right solution because he's trying to play Trent in any role except the RCM role, I'm guessing because he somehow wants to have both Macca and Szobo on the pitch too. What's missing? A DM.
That's the big difference with England. Rice is there to cover the middle. Trent can do his thing on the right and they have like eight RB to pick from while we've got Gomez and a bunch of kids. Of course Klopp is doing whatever he can to keep Trent at RB. Even playing Russian roulette with our defensive line.

Ideally, like in a football manager alternate universe, Klopp bought a top class RB and a top class DM last summer.
We line up like this:
Ali
Top class RB
Konate
Virg
Robbo
Top class DM
RCM: Trent
LCM: Szobo
+ Front 3

Where's Macca? On the bench, at Brighton? Don't know, don't care. Like I said in the summer, it was a "meh" signing.
TBH i wouldn't be opposed to a 4-4-2 box/number 10 when we're out of possession. He'd slot in on the right CM for either of them as well
 
Klopp is struggling to find the right solution because he's trying to play Trent in any role except the RCM role, I'm guessing because he somehow wants to have both Macca and Szobo on the pitch too. What's missing? A DM.
That's the big difference with England. Rice is there to cover the middle. Trent can do his thing on the right and they have like eight RB to pick from while we've got Gomez and a bunch of kids. Of course Klopp is doing whatever he can to keep Trent at RB. Even playing Russian roulette with our defensive line.

Ideally, like in a football manager alternate universe, Klopp bought a top class RB and a top class DM last summer.
We line up like this:
Ali
Top class RB
Konate
Virg
Robbo
Top class DM
RCM: Trent
LCM: Szobo
+ Front 3

Where's Macca? On the bench, at Brighton? Don't know, don't care. Like I said in the summer, it was a "meh" signing.

Klopp would ask how you can have such a short memory of how Trent has played as an RB for him. Thats why he plays there and is a key part of Liverpool 2.0 moving forward.

You’d think we were Utd given how bad people think its going. Its a bit mad really considering how the season has been so far.
 
Klopp would ask how you can have such a short memory of how Trent has played as an RB for him. Thats why he plays there and is a key part of Liverpool 2.0 moving forward.

You’d think we were Utd given how bad people think its going. Its a bit mad really considering how the season has been so far.

The seasons going great, but his flaws are as obvious as ever. This unfortunately isn't the 90s or 00s anymore. We're in an era where nigh on anything less than perfection means you miss out on a league title. I want trent in on a period of continued success in the league, but the lack of concentration at times isn't good enough. People know our RB is our weakest point.

Madness is what we did for years and stagnated with big contracts and zero flexibility. I just want to avoid that happening again
 
Klopp would ask how you can have such a short memory of how Trent has played as an RB for him. Thats why he plays there and is a key part of Liverpool 2.0 moving forward.

You’d think we were Utd given how bad people think its going. Its a bit mad really considering how the season has been so far.
So what? The key word is "had"? Does that give Trent a carte blanche to do whatever at RB?
Is he playing as well as he did 2-3 seasons ago now?
In that case bring back Hendo and Fabs, I mean they played well once too.
 
You’re missing the point. He’s 25 years old and coming in to his prime and is one of the best players around in his position. Its better to utilize him where he’s best suited and then improve the team as Klopp is doing now. Szobo and Macca makes Trent better. A new DM makes Trent better and then you continue to coach him to get the best out of him.

There isnt a need to move him around to a midfield role that wont suit him or us.
 
You’re missing the point. He’s 25 years old and coming in to his prime and is one of the best players around in his position. Its better to utilize him where he’s best suited and then improve the team as Klopp is doing now. Szobo and Macca makes Trent better. A new DM makes Trent better and then you continue to coach him to get the best out of him.

There isnt a need to move him around to a midfield role that wont suit him or us.


This i agree with. But trent genuinely need to stop talking in the media how he wants to play in mid, get his head down and focus on RB, as thats the weakest part of his game, and has been since his debut.
 
The seasons going great, but his flaws are as obvious as ever. This unfortunately isn't the 90s or 00s anymore. We're in an era where nigh on anything less than perfection means you miss out on a league title. I want trent in on a period of continued success in the league, but the lack of concentration at times isn't good enough. People know our RB is our weakest point.

Madness is what we did for years and stagnated with big contracts and zero flexibility. I just want to avoid that happening again

We won the league and finished second with a point a few times which is as close to being perfect as you can get with Man City, and had Trent at RB.
Its just stupid to think that Trent is the reason we wont win a league again because of some lapses of concentration.
 
We won the league and finished second with a point a few times which is as close to being perfect as you can get with Man City, and had Trent at RB.
Its just stupid to think that Trent is the reason we wont win a league again because of some lapses of concentration.

I never said that, he's just the most consistent point we're dropping goals or giving away chances. If theres a common thread over a 5 year period, it's that we're being attacked down our right as it's weaker. We lost a CL final to that exact issue. It's not mad to say he needs to focus on his defending, which is all i've done
 
This i agree with. But trent genuinely need to stop talking in the media how he wants to play in mid, get his head down and focus on RB, as thats the weakest part of his game, and has been since his debut.

That horse has bolted, I’m afraid. Players change and evolve with time; the Trent of 3-4 years ago doesn’t exist anymore. He wants to be a midfielder and not a RB, full stop. He wants to be the one pulling strings in the middle and not the one darting up and down the touchline all game; he’s watching and studying the clips of Pirlo, not Cafu. Maybe a RWB position could be a compromise if he is allowed to interpret it in his way but the days of him playing purely at RB are over.
 
That horse has bolted, I’m afraid. Players change and evolve with time; the Trent of 3-4 years ago doesn’t exist anymore. He wants to be a midfielder and not a RB, full stop. He wants to be the one pulling strings in the middle and not the one darting up and down the touchline all game; he’s watching and studying the clips of Pirlo, not Cafu. Maybe a RWB position could be a compromise if he is allowed to interpret it in his way but the days of him playing purely at RB are over.

And heres the problem as i see it. Hes done at RB, and without a revamp to the whole system, we can't play him there without the odd guaranteed chance gifted up.. Arguably, the invert is doing him a greater disservice defensively as he's further out of position and more central.

I want him at RB, I wanted him to learn, but klopps coddled him
 
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You’re missing the point. He’s 25 years old and coming in to his prime and is one of the best players around in his position. Its better to utilize him where he’s best suited and then improve the team as Klopp is doing now. Szobo and Macca makes Trent better. A new DM makes Trent better and then you continue to coach him to get the best out of him.

There isnt a need to move him around to a midfield role that wont suit him or us.
Just like Fabs and Rurik are saying, the lad doesn't want to play RB, even I said it a few seasons ago. You see it in his body language and you hear it in the media. His vibe has always been "I can play at RB but I'd rather be in midfield". Someone said in another thread that "angry Trent" plays better, why? I think it's because of motivation.
 
[article]“My specific skill set and what I’m best at is someone who plays in the middle, someone who controls the game, controls the tempo, creates, breaks line, progresses the ball up the pitch,” said. “You probably get more out of me from being in the middle and I’m able to show off that skill set as much as possible. My role is to go and create and make things happen, control the game in the middle of the pitch, get the ball on to the attackers, play forward, run forward, goals, assists, create chances, get people off their seats."
[/article]
He seems completely sold on himself being a Pirlo-like midfielder.
It's crazy. And getting validation from a shit manager like Southgate means nothing.

He can pass a ball, maybe one of the best out there. But in terms of skillset required to play in midfield, he doesn't have it. He doesn't have that intricate touch, he doesn't shield the ball well, he can't receive the ball on the half turn, and most importantly he has not played as a midfielder competitively at all. It's one thing striding around unopposed when lesser team park the bus against us, it's another thing when the City, the Real, the stronger teams with naturalised world class midfielders come around.

I'm struggling to take to him these days, he's just so full of himself. He needs to show us he can defend properly instead of thinking he can just show up and magically do what he wants to do just because he's Trent.
 
Just like Fabs and Rurik are saying, the lad doesn't want to play RB, even I said it a few seasons ago. You see it in his body language and you hear it in the media. His vibe has always been "I can play at RB but I'd rather be in midfield". Someone said in another thread that "angry Trent" plays better, why? I think it's because of motivation.

And a key relevant point to add to this is: he did start as a midfielder in youth football! He played RCM, I think, all the way up to his debut at RB for the senior team.
 
It's crazy. And getting validation from a shit manager like Southgate means nothing.

He can pass a ball, maybe one of the best out there. But in terms of skillset required to play in midfield, he doesn't have it. He doesn't have that intricate touch, he doesn't shield the ball well, he can't receive the ball on the half turn, and most importantly he has not played as a midfielder competitively at all. It's one thing striding around unopposed when lesser team park the bus against us, it's another thing when the City, the Real, the stronger teams with naturalised world class midfielders come around.

I agree with you, but some of these things can be learned and improved. Like even Hendo learned to turn with the ball both to the left and to the right after a few years of playing in midfield; Trent is more technically gifted and will learn faster. Stick him in midfield full-time and give him a few seasons to work out the kinks and he will genuinely become one of the best midfielders in the country - he has the talent for it.

That’s what he wants; you can’t say it’s not logical from his perspective. Is this what Klopp wants and what’s best for LFC? That is the big question. I think if we can find the pieces to accommodate him (another RB is key), the answer is probably yes.
 
Just like Fabs and Rurik are saying, the lad doesn't want to play RB, even I said it a few seasons ago. You see it in his body language and you hear it in the media. His vibe has always been "I can play at RB but I'd rather be in midfield". Someone said in another thread that "angry Trent" plays better, why? I think it's because of motivation.
I thought he had started the season well, more level headed and determined to do his job well. You are right, it almost seemed like he's motivated. Perhaps with the vice captaincy, he did step it up a gear. But when is the Trent of old coming back? The one lacking motivation and effort, slightly sulky and petulant. I suspect we might see that version sooner or later when the vice captaincy adrenaline wears off and he is picturing himself as Jude Bellingham entertaining the world with his midfield skills.
 
Just like Fabs and Rurik are saying, the lad doesn't want to play RB, even I said it a few seasons ago. You see it in his body language and you hear it in the media. His vibe has always been "I can play at RB but I'd rather be in midfield". Someone said in another thread that "angry Trent" plays better, why? I think it's because of motivation.

«His vibe».. What does that even mean? He’s only said that he enjoys playing on the flank and in the middle. In the article he says middle as its his new role. He doesnt say being a midfielder.
 
«His vibe».. What does that even mean? He’s only said that he enjoys playing on the flank and in the middle. In the article he says middle as its his new role. He doesnt say being a midfielder.
His vibe, his attitude. I don't think he ever was completely sold on the RB position.

"Who decided the position change? It was me, Neil Critchley and Alex Inglethorpe," he told BBC Sport.

"Critch was my under-18 manager and Alex was head of the academy. I wanted to get into the first team as soon as possible, and we decided that was the most straightforward route.
 
So you’re guessing and making your arguments about an assumption that you understand his attitude, desire and commitment to play for his boyhood club based on his «vibe».

You’re having a mare here mate. Just like the Swedish national team ;)
 
Klopp is struggling to find the right solution because he's trying to play Trent in any role except the RCM role, I'm guessing because he somehow wants to have both Macca and Szobo on the pitch too. What's missing? A DM.
That's the big difference with England. Rice is there to cover the middle. Trent can do his thing on the right and they have like eight RB to pick from while we've got Gomez and a bunch of kids. Of course Klopp is doing whatever he can to keep Trent at RB. Even playing Russian roulette with our defensive line.

Ideally, like in a football manager alternate universe, Klopp bought a top class RB and a top class DM last summer.
We line up like this:
Ali
Top class RB
Konate
Virg
Robbo
Top class DM
RCM: Trent
LCM: Szobo
+ Front 3

Where's Macca? On the bench, at Brighton? Don't know, don't care. Like I said in the summer, it was a "meh" signing.

The idea of Trent as RCM reminds me of a similar conundrum with Gerrard back in the day – that seemed like obviously his best position in theory, yet almost no manager played him there for any significant stretch. For Rafa he was mainly an attacking RW in a 4-2-3-1, then a #10, a double-pivot CM in some games (like Istanbul 1st half), anything but an RCM in a 4-3-3. For England I also don't recall him there on a regular basis and of course later in his career under Rodgers Gerrard became a full-time #6.

The thing with Trent as RCM is that I don't recall any midfielder under Klopp who played this position the way Trent would likely play it. He is not a Henderson or a Gini or a Milner. A Klopp RCM is someone who will make selfless runs without the ball into the spaces on the right wing, knowing that he will not receive the ball 70% of the time and then run all the way back to restore the midfield shape – this is what Slogoszlai does now and what Elliott also tries to do (with similar willingness, but less mobility). I think Macca or Jones could play this role as well. You can't ask Trent to be that player – and it doesn't make too much sense anyway, you want him on the ball as much as possible, not off it. Maybe Naby or Gundogan in his Dortmund days would be the closest analogy to the role Trent might play in midfield, but you have to think very carefully about the overall balance to make that work.

I just rewatched the first 70 minutes (up to 3:0) of the Brentford game focusing mainly on Trent and to be honest I think he had a good game – the mistake with Mbuemo's chance had nothing to do with the position (if Robbo was fit, he would be the one left behind on the attacking set play) and his passing and chance creation was exceptional. He also stayed wide more often than not, almost "babysitting" Matip (in a sense that unlike Konate Joel needs someone with more pace alongside him). I blocked off Luton and Toulouse from my memory already, but in this game I don't have any major gripes with Trent's position or role as it allowed us to create chances consistently against a low block and directly led to the first goal. I think Szoboszlai and Gakpo both stayed a bit more central to help out Endo, respecting Brentford's threat on the counter – if we needed to be more expansive they could both have easily filled that space on the flanks to allow Salah and Jota to play closer to goal.
 
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The idea of Trent as RCM reminds me of a similar conundrum with Gerrard back in the day – that seemed like obviously his best position in theory, yet almost no manager played him there for any significant stretch. For Rafa he was mainly an attacking RW in a 4-2-3-1, then a #10, a double-pivot CM in some games (like Istanbul 1st half), anything but an RCM in a 4-3-3. For England I also don't recall him there on a regular basis and of course later in his career under Rodgers Gerrard became a full-time #6.

The thing with Trent as RCM is that I don't recall any midfielder under Klopp who played this position the way Trent would likely play it. He is not a Henderson or a Gini or a Milner. A Klopp RCM is someone who will make selfless runs without the ball into the spaces on the right wing, knowing that he will not receive the ball 70% of the time and then run all the way back to restore the midfield shape – this is what Slogoszlai does now and what Elliott also tries to do (with similar willingness, but less mobility). I think Macca or Jones could play this role as well. You can't ask Trent to be that player – and it doesn't make too much sense anyway, you want him on the ball as much as possible, not off it. Maybe Naby or Gundogan in his Dortmund days would be the closest analogy to the role Trent might play in midfield, but you have to think very carefully about the overall balance to make that work.

I just rewatched the first 70 minutes (up to 3:0) of the Brentford game focusing mainly on Trent and to be honest I think he had a good game – the mistake with Mbuemo's chance had nothing to do with the position (if Robbo was fit, he would be the one left behind on the attacking set play) and his passing and chance creation was exceptional. He also stayed wide more often than not, almost "babysitting" Matip (in a sense that unlike Konate Joel needs someone with more pace alongside him). I blocked off Luton and Toulouse from my memory already, but in this game I don't have any major gripes with Trent's position or role as it allowed us to create chances consistently against a low block and directly led to the first goal. I think Szoboszlai and Gakpo both stayed a bit more central to help out Endo, respecting Brentford's threat on the counter – if we needed to be more expansive they could both have easily filled that space on the flanks to allow Salah and Jota to play closer to goal.
I don't agree about Gerrard. His best position was imo in a free role in midfield. I think his best season was playing behind Torres.
I would never do to Gerrard what we're doing to Szobo right now. I almost want to say "free Szobo" because I think we're over-working him because of Trent. He and Konate are the ones who need to cover for him.
 
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I read somewhere today that the England press were loving his display from yesterday. But I don't know what game they were watching - I thought he was fucking shit, like most of the time when he plays in midfield. I personally think he will be Southgate's plan B if Jude is ever injured - only in the hope that he might provide some level of creating passing to break the lines. Here are my observations:

  • He don't run with the ball very well,
  • He seemed the least press-resistant of all the England players in midfield.
  • His tackling is not all that in midfield when compared to the others he has to play along.
  • You can see when he is chasing a player he is well over-exerting himself to the point he might pully a hammy
  • A football game is 90mins minimum right ? - so are we saying we are going to fucking let what to me looks like a passenger just walk in the midfield in the hope he can pull off of a worldy pass - because that is what we are saying and hoping for. He lacks that impetus that Jude Bellingham or even Maddison could have provided for England, and I also think for us Liverpool - him playing in midfield slows us down, and stops us making the best use of current midfield. Also his hollywood passes ONLY work if the player to receive is in the right position in the first place and must know his game.

Now - my dear bitches - it might sound like I am having a go at this guy for the great service he has given us but I know he can defend very well and has done so in his early seasons. He is also been the most effective as a RB - but what he needs to do if he is allowed by Klopp is go forward when it's safe to do so and deliver those deadly balls in like he has done for all our successful seasons. His skills will be utilized more that way, and as his long range passing is so good - I don't even think he needs to risk going so far up the pitch anyway.

Some of you fellow bitches will argue - "but last 10 games when we moved him to midfield we were great...blah blah blah" - well that only worked because we actually had two players in midfield who could pass accurately in Curtis, and Trent, and Curtis as you should all know by now is probably the most press resistant player in the country, and it helped Fabinho. We have better players in midfield now that can do more than what Trent does for us over the course of 90 minutes in a game.
 
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