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Real Madrid (H) Feb 21st [CL]

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But that is not representative of the development that took place, which I describe.

Sorry but it is. As an illustration here are just the last six signings: Kyrgiakos, Ayala, Maxi Rodriguez, Sterling (a youth player then), Shelvey, Jovanovic.
 
If we, the fans watching only matches, can pin point the problem that is the regression of our main midfield 3 especially Hendo and Fab, then how did Klopp and co. miss it?

If they didn't miss it, why would they prioritise Gakpo over a MF in Jan? We obviously had 40m to spend and they decided to blow it all on a forward. If we do not make the CL places that will be on the management team, at least a fair chunk of it.

Even Baj wasn't expected to make the step up so quickly. He did, we were fortunate. It could have been so much worse to be honest.

I very much doubt they missed the problem in MF or prioritised Gakpo over a MF signing, though we did also need more up front with Mane gone and Jota injured. My bet is that Gakpo was a target they found they could afford whereas the MFs they wanted (and still want) weren't available or affordable. If you think they should instead have spent the money on a MF they didn't actually rate highly enough, I don't agree.
 
Sorry but it is. As an illustration here are just the last six signings: Kyrgiakos, Ayala, Maxi Rodriguez, Sterling (a youth player then), Shelvey, Jovanovic.
Yeah, obviously we picked up some class under the radar signings early on with Alonso, Lil Luis and Reina, and it might be argued that it never got better than that. The biggest year in terms of quality signings for Rafa other than that was 2007 with Torres, Mascher (on loan with option), Babel (oops), and Yossi.
 
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I very much doubt they missed the problem in MF or prioritised Gakpo over a MF signing, though we did also need more up front with Mane gone and Jota injured. My bet is that Gakpo was a target they found they could afford whereas the MFs they wanted (and still want) weren't available or affordable. If you think they should instead have spent the money on a MF they didn't actually rate highly enough, I don't agree.
I don't disagree with you perhaps they couldn't get the right candidate for the MF role in Jan. But the fact remains that it was a decision they took to go all in on that player/s and nobody else.

And this decision is looking worse by the day, when we are regularly smashed by 3 goals with some hapless MF performances.
 
Given that the owners weren't willing to stump up enough cash, what else would you have had us do? Spend the Gakpo money on some other MF who wasn't considered up to standard? If, as I reckon, the situation was caused by lack of sufficient funds, it's not fair or accurate to blame our transfer people for that.
 
If they deemed that 40m is not enough to bring us a MF who is better than our current bunch, then the decision is on them. I won't admit to know who else was available at that price.

However, it is puzzling because we were never going to be paying alot more than 40-50m on a player. We never have. The Coutinho money was one off. With possibly no CL next season, and no new owners, hoping we will spend 80-100m on a single player is abit of a stretch. We need at least 2 MF and a CB next season. I think we will be lucky to get a transfer warchest even close to 80m in total.

Let's hope our guys know what they are doing and there are indeed more funds available.
 
I think a reasonable measure is - which players that we’ve been properly linked to has ended up moving elsewhere,

There aren’t many - Tchouaméni and Fernandez before it became clear we’d have to meet the buy out clause - it does kind of suggest we’re being very selective.

If you combine that with whatever’s going on with the analytics dept - which may be part of the cause or part of the result of the lack of buying.
 
Yeah, obviously we picked up some class under the radar signings early on with Alonso, Lil Luis and Reina, and it might be argued that it never got better than that. The biggest year in terms of quality signings for Rafa other than that was 2007 with Torres, Mascher (on loan with option), Babel (oops), and Yossi.

That's actually a great fucking window. Yossi was a perfect squad player and Babel, as disappointing as he was, still provided something, at least at the beginning

They both scored memorable goals that I can still remember too. Yossi's last minute winner against Fulham (was it?) in the league and Babel against Arsenal in Europe
 
Gomez is fucking awful and has made countless errors this season (and well beyond) whilst spreading panic around him…

And…

…we’ve been unbalanced, seemingly exhausted /traumatised by last season and collectively mediocre.

It’s a false dichotomy to say that statement 1 is simply scapegoating Gomez and ignoring statement 2.

I’m absolutely bewildered as to how Gomez consistently makes his way into our first 11 at the expense of others when he’s consistently giving away goal scoring opportunities because of his lack of concentration, fear or whatever it is. It’s the one thing I can’t fathom Klopp on. It’s been like this all season and there seems to be a collective aversion to calling Gomez out on his repetitive shitness - contrast with the magnification of any Trent error.

Just get him out of a starting spot at Cb. It won’t solve everything, but we’ll be giving away 2-3 less unforced errors leading to goalcoring chances per game.

Unfortunately I think you’re right. I think any objective analysis of errors leading to chances plus positional mistakes will show Gomez among the worst defenders in the EPL this season. It’s very hard to build anything when the foundation is this creaky.
 
That's actually a great fucking window. Yossi was a perfect squad player and Babel, as disappointing as he was, still provided something, at least at the beginning







They both scored memorable goals that I can still remember too. Yossi's last minute winner against Fulham (was it?) in the league and Babel against Arsenal in Europe
Yeah, pretty fucking good alright.
 
That's actually a great fucking window. Yossi was a perfect squad player and Babel, as disappointing as he was, still provided something, at least at the beginning

They both scored memorable goals that I can still remember too. Yossi's last minute winner against Fulham (was it?) in the league and Babel against Arsenal in Europe
I liked Benayoun’s ability to unlock low block teams (that Fulham goal was an example) which we had struggled with after we’d figured out how to beat the big teams.
 
Genuinely Gomez is irredeemable for me now. He's now in the Naby Keita camp of "just go" for me now. All the credit he built up in the bank from the title season has gone. Hes consistently making rash decisions when outside the box, and backing off horribly when inside the box. He always needed to be held by the hand by Virgil, but virgil can't do that any more. There's been zero progression in his ability, and i've no doubt thats down to the horrible injuries he's had.

He should have been the one to replace Virgil; the pace, the physique....but it's all for nothing
 
Sorry but it is. As an illustration here are just the last six signings: Kyrgiakos, Ayala, Maxi Rodriguez, Sterling (a youth player then), Shelvey, Jovanovic.

I don't think we can use the signings during that phase of G&H as a basis. That was a really weird and toxic time.
 
It would be harsh to blame all 5 Madrid goals on Gomez but he was at the scene of the crime for all of them, even if not the primary culprit.

I've wanted to give him time but it just really doesn't look like we can afford to this season. We can't afford to keep giving up chances or dropping points.
 
I don't think we can use the signings during that phase of G&H as a basis. That was a really weird and toxic time.

It was indeed, but I wasn't singling that period out. I didn't want to list all the signings we made in Rafa's time so I named just the last half-dozen as an illustration. The whole list, as well as being extremely long, shows a very similar lack of overall quality from beginning to end.
 
Genuinely Gomez is irredeemable for me now. He's now in the Naby Keita camp of "just go" for me now. All the credit he built up in the bank from the title season has gone. Hes consistently making rash decisions when outside the box, and backing off horribly when inside the box. He always needed to be held by the hand by Virgil, but virgil can't do that any more. There's been zero progression in his ability, and i've no doubt thats down to the horrible injuries he's had.

He should have been the one to replace Virgil; the pace, the physique....but it's all for nothing

Well, he still has more credit than Keita for me; he was genuinely excellent for us for a few stretches – unfortunately for whatever reason, probably mostly do with injuries, he has started gradually losing confidence and his decision-making has suffered. I still think playing in a back 3 somewhere he can be quite good.
 
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