Honestly, as a spectator and not a member of the team its probably not easy to judge how good a captain is or not.
Jordan Henderson
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Results are one clue...
And picks him as Captain, is that a clue?
But it's only a small aspect, I mean you can be an absolutely outstanding captain who's part of a poor team. Van Dijk whether official captain or not for Southampton and then Liverpool has had both ends of the spectrum in terms of results. The poor end wasn't really indicative of his quality as a player or captain. Neither is us winning hugely down to the captain, because we've got a really special team.
What's crucial is that everyone is on the same page as the captain, and then that allows him to operate with the respect of his teammates. I don't think it's something that's always obviously visible on the pitch, which was my point earlier in the thread. We have some big personalities who are probably more crucial behind the scenes in the dressing room, than anything that's particularly blatant on the pitch. It's rare to have a sole captain who's obviously the standout personality on the pitch. Lucky for us we have quite a few. Look at how Robertson puts his stamp on the game, and Milner. There are essentially captains across the team.
This is far too nuanced and rational for the tinter clacker.
I'm not sure I agree with it anyway. When Stevie was skipper there were games when other players, esp.in midfield, visibly wilted when he had a go at them for, basically, not being as brilliant as he was. As a player he was one in a million and would be in CM alongside Souness in my All-Time XI, but I didn't think then and I don't think now that he was a good captain at all. When we did well with him wearing the armband it was because of his playing ability, NOT because he was skipper.
Gerrard is the reason i became a Liverpool fan and will forever be my favorite, but Henderson has been a formidable, exemplary captain for us. I'm obviously glad for the entire team for the 3 trophies we've gotten so far (with more to come), but moreso for 3 people in particular:
Klopp: because of the whole "he's always the bridesmaid, 6 losses in finals in a row, blah blah blah" go suck a dick. Now it's 3 in a row and those clowns are now quiet while Klopp and Liverpool reap the reward of all the hardwork they put in the past few years.
Hendo: because he got way too much shit from Liverpool fans when the guy did nothing but try his damn best and do it in a way you'd be proud to show your kids. "He's not good enough", "we'll never win with him", etc etc are now mostly things of the past and he can be recognized as the top captain he is.
Henry/FSG: Took a ton of shit from ignorant fucks but took a team on the verge of collapse/administration and today is a well-oiled machine. Some bumps on the road for sure, but he/they have stayed out of the way and backed Klopp and the football people run the team. Anfield has been expanded / improved, new academy being built, world class operations/recruitement/strategy team in Moore, Edwards, etc, world class coach and world class results. It's a great time to be a Liverpool fan and those same assclowns are now quiet.
Klopp: because of the whole "he's always the bridesmaid, 6 losses in finals in a row, blah blah blah" go suck a dick. Now it's 3 in a row and those clowns are now quiet while Klopp and Liverpool reap the reward of all the hardwork they put in the past few years.
Hendo: because he got way too much shit from Liverpool fans when the guy did nothing but try his damn best and do it in a way you'd be proud to show your kids. "He's not good enough", "we'll never win with him", etc etc are now mostly things of the past and he can be recognized as the top captain he is.
Henry/FSG: Took a ton of shit from ignorant fucks but took a team on the verge of collapse/administration and today is a well-oiled machine. Some bumps on the road for sure, but he/they have stayed out of the way and backed Klopp and the football people run the team. Anfield has been expanded / improved, new academy being built, world class operations/recruitement/strategy team in Moore, Edwards, etc, world class coach and world class results. It's a great time to be a Liverpool fan and those same assclowns are now quiet.
Robbo and VVD in interviews yesterday, saying what a great player and captain Hendo is, how under rated he is in England and how that's all going to change very soon.
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To use a Klopp phrase, we have turned from doubters to believers in Jordan Henderson.
I was thinking about Klopps first interview here and how he is so close to achieving everything he said he wanted to.
Apparently there are still 8 Liverpool fans who are doubters, and 6 of them post here, but he's working on it.
This can be both a blessing and a curse. The many captains need to be unified and pulling the team in the same direction, and that often does not happen with talented teams.
It seems that the respect Hendo and Klopp has from the others ensure that the "captains" do not pull the team in different directions based on their own egos.
Hendo is one of the most ego-less captains that I have witnessed and perfect for a team full of captains.
Jonathan Wilson opining on Henderson:
In November 2010, Fabio Capello gave Jordan Henderson his England debut in a friendly against France, operating alongside Gareth Barry at the back of midfield in a 4-2-3-1. In the second half, after Barry had been replaced by Adam Johnson, Steven Gerrard dropped in alongside him. It did not go well. Henderson didn’t start another game for England until a friendly against Denmark in March 2014.
But then why would it have gone well? Henderson was not a holding midfielder, even before you begin to consider the nightmarish difficulty of trying to play as a holding midfielder alongside Gerrard. Not for the first time people at Sunderland wondered whether Capello ever bothered to watch them play. One of the reasons Darren Bent left, two months after Henderson’s international debut, was that he felt his chances of England recognition would be greater if he played somewhere, anywhere, else.
How could anybody who had watched Henderson regularly, anybody who had seen his energy and stamina and desire, his ability to cross a ball with his right foot, think he was best deployed sitting in front of the back four? He had played on the right for Sunderland as he emerged from the youth system before Steve Bruce had moved him into the centre, but it had always been somewhere where he could run. He was like a setter: if he wasn’t running, running anywhere, lolloping about with ears flapping just for the sheer joy of it, he wasn’t happy.
It was an issue that followed Henderson to Liverpool even after he had overcome Brendan Rodgers’s initial intention to sell him. Even after Jürgen Klopp had taken over Henderson always seemed the misfit, the one most likely to be replaced. He just didn’t seem to have the tactical discipline to operate as the deepest of the midfield three. His – and Liverpool’s – real breakthrough last season came after Fabinho had taken that deep-lying midfielder role and Henderson had been shifted to a freer role on the right of the triangle. Hendo Unchained turned successive games against Southampton, Porto and Chelsea last season.
The narrative had him returning to his rightful position to discover his destiny, leading to the emotional celebrations with his father after lifting the Champions League and the development of his trademark trophy lift – and who from Sunderland has ever needed one of those before? (The narrative may also note Liverpool’s indebtedness to a small area to the south of Sunderland: Henderson grew up in Herrington, a couple of miles east of Penshaw, home of Alan Kennedy, the left-back who scored decisive strikes in two European Cup finals for them. Bob Paisley, who won six league titles and three European Cups as Liverpool manager to go with the championship he won as a left-half, came from Hetton-le-Hole, about four miles to the south.)
But what happens after the grand finale? Madrid in June could easily have been Henderson’s finest hour. What else did he have to prove? Realistically, nothing. There was a league to win after 30 years, and Liverpool surely now will do that, but that was a collective ambition. Henderson himself had done everything that had been hoped for him and more. The ugly duckling, a player whose curious gait had led to him being written off by Alex Ferguson, had become a swan.
Except there was a niggle. He wanted to be a swan – an ungainly swan, it’s true, one whose paddling is very definitely visible above the water – who could play as a holding midfielder. Fabinho’s injury in November was one of those moments that could have derailed the season. Henderson stepped in. His greatest quality, perhaps, has always been his willingness to learn. Those who saw his uncertain first game in central midfield for Sunderland, away at Birmingham, doubted he would ever make it in the middle; within a matter of weeks he was undroppable.
In four league games with the 29-year-old at the back of midfield over the past month Liverpool have conceded one goal. Three of their five league clean sheets this season have come in that spell. He played as the holder as Liverpool beat Flamengo in the Club World Cup final.
Against Leicester on Thursday, although it was Trent Alexander‑Arnold who stood out with his goal and a part in the other three goals, Henderson was just as vital to the win. There was all the familiar energy, three tackles and an interception.
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Jordan Henderson pictured during Sunderland’s FA Youth Cup semi-final against Manchester City in March 2008. Photograph: Christopher Lee/Getty Images
But what was notable about Liverpool was the way, after that frenetic opening 10 minutes or so when both sides looked vulnerable on the counter, that they took control of the game, pressing high and holding possession. Nobody who started the game finished with a higher pass completion rate than Henderson’s 93.4%, a stat that includes a remarkable 10 accurate long balls out of 11 attempted. He is not Xavi or Andrea Pirlo, and never will be, but at the King Power Stadium he had more in common with them than might ever have been expected.
Capello got it wrong nine years ago but Henderson is becoming the player he wanted him to be. Other midfielders have proved unable to change but Henderson is always developing, always improving.
In November 2010, Fabio Capello gave Jordan Henderson his England debut in a friendly against France, operating alongside Gareth Barry at the back of midfield in a 4-2-3-1. In the second half, after Barry had been replaced by Adam Johnson, Steven Gerrard dropped in alongside him. It did not go well. Henderson didn’t start another game for England until a friendly against Denmark in March 2014.
But then why would it have gone well? Henderson was not a holding midfielder, even before you begin to consider the nightmarish difficulty of trying to play as a holding midfielder alongside Gerrard. Not for the first time people at Sunderland wondered whether Capello ever bothered to watch them play. One of the reasons Darren Bent left, two months after Henderson’s international debut, was that he felt his chances of England recognition would be greater if he played somewhere, anywhere, else.
How could anybody who had watched Henderson regularly, anybody who had seen his energy and stamina and desire, his ability to cross a ball with his right foot, think he was best deployed sitting in front of the back four? He had played on the right for Sunderland as he emerged from the youth system before Steve Bruce had moved him into the centre, but it had always been somewhere where he could run. He was like a setter: if he wasn’t running, running anywhere, lolloping about with ears flapping just for the sheer joy of it, he wasn’t happy.
It was an issue that followed Henderson to Liverpool even after he had overcome Brendan Rodgers’s initial intention to sell him. Even after Jürgen Klopp had taken over Henderson always seemed the misfit, the one most likely to be replaced. He just didn’t seem to have the tactical discipline to operate as the deepest of the midfield three. His – and Liverpool’s – real breakthrough last season came after Fabinho had taken that deep-lying midfielder role and Henderson had been shifted to a freer role on the right of the triangle. Hendo Unchained turned successive games against Southampton, Porto and Chelsea last season.
The narrative had him returning to his rightful position to discover his destiny, leading to the emotional celebrations with his father after lifting the Champions League and the development of his trademark trophy lift – and who from Sunderland has ever needed one of those before? (The narrative may also note Liverpool’s indebtedness to a small area to the south of Sunderland: Henderson grew up in Herrington, a couple of miles east of Penshaw, home of Alan Kennedy, the left-back who scored decisive strikes in two European Cup finals for them. Bob Paisley, who won six league titles and three European Cups as Liverpool manager to go with the championship he won as a left-half, came from Hetton-le-Hole, about four miles to the south.)
But what happens after the grand finale? Madrid in June could easily have been Henderson’s finest hour. What else did he have to prove? Realistically, nothing. There was a league to win after 30 years, and Liverpool surely now will do that, but that was a collective ambition. Henderson himself had done everything that had been hoped for him and more. The ugly duckling, a player whose curious gait had led to him being written off by Alex Ferguson, had become a swan.
Except there was a niggle. He wanted to be a swan – an ungainly swan, it’s true, one whose paddling is very definitely visible above the water – who could play as a holding midfielder. Fabinho’s injury in November was one of those moments that could have derailed the season. Henderson stepped in. His greatest quality, perhaps, has always been his willingness to learn. Those who saw his uncertain first game in central midfield for Sunderland, away at Birmingham, doubted he would ever make it in the middle; within a matter of weeks he was undroppable.
In four league games with the 29-year-old at the back of midfield over the past month Liverpool have conceded one goal. Three of their five league clean sheets this season have come in that spell. He played as the holder as Liverpool beat Flamengo in the Club World Cup final.
Against Leicester on Thursday, although it was Trent Alexander‑Arnold who stood out with his goal and a part in the other three goals, Henderson was just as vital to the win. There was all the familiar energy, three tackles and an interception.
FacebookTwitterPinterest
Jordan Henderson pictured during Sunderland’s FA Youth Cup semi-final against Manchester City in March 2008. Photograph: Christopher Lee/Getty Images
But what was notable about Liverpool was the way, after that frenetic opening 10 minutes or so when both sides looked vulnerable on the counter, that they took control of the game, pressing high and holding possession. Nobody who started the game finished with a higher pass completion rate than Henderson’s 93.4%, a stat that includes a remarkable 10 accurate long balls out of 11 attempted. He is not Xavi or Andrea Pirlo, and never will be, but at the King Power Stadium he had more in common with them than might ever have been expected.
Capello got it wrong nine years ago but Henderson is becoming the player he wanted him to be. Other midfielders have proved unable to change but Henderson is always developing, always improving.
Jonathan Wilson opining on Henderson:
In November 2010, Fabio Capello gave Jordan Henderson his England debut in a friendly against France, operating alongside Gareth Barry at the back of midfield in a 4-2-3-1. In the second half, after Barry had been replaced by Adam Johnson, Steven Gerrard dropped in alongside him. It did not go well. Henderson didn’t start another game for England until a friendly against Denmark in March 2014.
But then why would it have gone well? Henderson was not a holding midfielder, even before you begin to consider the nightmarish difficulty of trying to play as a holding midfielder alongside Gerrard. Not for the first time people at Sunderland wondered whether Capello ever bothered to watch them play. One of the reasons Darren Bent left, two months after Henderson’s international debut, was that he felt his chances of England recognition would be greater if he played somewhere, anywhere, else.
How could anybody who had watched Henderson regularly, anybody who had seen his energy and stamina and desire, his ability to cross a ball with his right foot, think he was best deployed sitting in front of the back four? He had played on the right for Sunderland as he emerged from the youth system before Steve Bruce had moved him into the centre, but it had always been somewhere where he could run. He was like a setter: if he wasn’t running, running anywhere, lolloping about with ears flapping just for the sheer joy of it, he wasn’t happy.
It was an issue that followed Henderson to Liverpool even after he had overcome Brendan Rodgers’s initial intention to sell him. Even after Jürgen Klopp had taken over Henderson always seemed the misfit, the one most likely to be replaced. He just didn’t seem to have the tactical discipline to operate as the deepest of the midfield three. His – and Liverpool’s – real breakthrough last season came after Fabinho had taken that deep-lying midfielder role and Henderson had been shifted to a freer role on the right of the triangle. Hendo Unchained turned successive games against Southampton, Porto and Chelsea last season.
The narrative had him returning to his rightful position to discover his destiny, leading to the emotional celebrations with his father after lifting the Champions League and the development of his trademark trophy lift – and who from Sunderland has ever needed one of those before? (The narrative may also note Liverpool’s indebtedness to a small area to the south of Sunderland: Henderson grew up in Herrington, a couple of miles east of Penshaw, home of Alan Kennedy, the left-back who scored decisive strikes in two European Cup finals for them. Bob Paisley, who won six league titles and three European Cups as Liverpool manager to go with the championship he won as a left-half, came from Hetton-le-Hole, about four miles to the south.)
But what happens after the grand finale? Madrid in June could easily have been Henderson’s finest hour. What else did he have to prove? Realistically, nothing. There was a league to win after 30 years, and Liverpool surely now will do that, but that was a collective ambition. Henderson himself had done everything that had been hoped for him and more. The ugly duckling, a player whose curious gait had led to him being written off by Alex Ferguson, had become a swan.
Except there was a niggle. He wanted to be a swan – an ungainly swan, it’s true, one whose paddling is very definitely visible above the water – who could play as a holding midfielder. Fabinho’s injury in November was one of those moments that could have derailed the season. Henderson stepped in. His greatest quality, perhaps, has always been his willingness to learn. Those who saw his uncertain first game in central midfield for Sunderland, away at Birmingham, doubted he would ever make it in the middle; within a matter of weeks he was undroppable.
In four league games with the 29-year-old at the back of midfield over the past month Liverpool have conceded one goal. Three of their five league clean sheets this season have come in that spell. He played as the holder as Liverpool beat Flamengo in the Club World Cup final.
Against Leicester on Thursday, although it was Trent Alexander‑Arnold who stood out with his goal and a part in the other three goals, Henderson was just as vital to the win. There was all the familiar energy, three tackles and an interception.
FacebookTwitterPinterest
Jordan Henderson pictured during Sunderland’s FA Youth Cup semi-final against Manchester City in March 2008. Photograph: Christopher Lee/Getty Images
But what was notable about Liverpool was the way, after that frenetic opening 10 minutes or so when both sides looked vulnerable on the counter, that they took control of the game, pressing high and holding possession. Nobody who started the game finished with a higher pass completion rate than Henderson’s 93.4%, a stat that includes a remarkable 10 accurate long balls out of 11 attempted. He is not Xavi or Andrea Pirlo, and never will be, but at the King Power Stadium he had more in common with them than might ever have been expected.
Capello got it wrong nine years ago but Henderson is becoming the player he wanted him to be. Other midfielders have proved unable to change but Henderson is always developing, always improving.
"Always improving" is what I wanted to come here and say about Hendo.
As insatiable as Firmino, Salah and Mane were in poking holes in the armour, Jordan Henderson was utterly sublime in controlling the flow. His is not a role that particularly lends itself to superlatives unless you watch him intently: the positioning, the awareness, the intelligence, the anticipation, the timing.
And that damn passing range. The diagonal balls to Alexander-Arnold and Salah in the opening half an hour were tantalising, and rarely did he take more than one or two touches before effortlessly spreading them 30 and 40 yards across the pitch. It’s almost enough to make you forget that a) Fabinho was Liverpool’s best player for the first few months of the season, and b) Henderson has somehow been an improvement as his stand-in. If you still don’t rate him, this sport isn’t for you.
https://www.football365.com/news/16-conclusions-leicester-0-4-liverpool-roberto-firmino
And that damn passing range. The diagonal balls to Alexander-Arnold and Salah in the opening half an hour were tantalising, and rarely did he take more than one or two touches before effortlessly spreading them 30 and 40 yards across the pitch. It’s almost enough to make you forget that a) Fabinho was Liverpool’s best player for the first few months of the season, and b) Henderson has somehow been an improvement as his stand-in. If you still don’t rate him, this sport isn’t for you.
https://www.football365.com/news/16-conclusions-leicester-0-4-liverpool-roberto-firmino
Every time his role has been under threat, he has found a way to elevate his game or learn new elements to the position.
He'd do it regardless of any threat to his role I reckon. That's what makes him great.
Anyone who cannot see the value that Henderson is bringing to this team currently is either being obtuse or is a cunt. It's that simple.
To be fair to Woland though, he's both.
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...dan-henderson-liverpool-jurgen-klopp-17505477
Jurgen Klopp sends message to any remaining critics of Liverpool captain Jordan Henderson
Liverpool boss hails another captain's performance from Jordan Henderson after his side beat Sheffield United 2-0
“If anybody who is with us still doesn’t see the quality of Jordan Henderson, then I cannot help them."
Edited to add @Spionkop69 almost word for word your last post,did you make Klopp say this?
Jurgen Klopp sends message to any remaining critics of Liverpool captain Jordan Henderson
Liverpool boss hails another captain's performance from Jordan Henderson after his side beat Sheffield United 2-0
“If anybody who is with us still doesn’t see the quality of Jordan Henderson, then I cannot help them."
Edited to add @Spionkop69 almost word for word your last post,did you make Klopp say this?
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I realise that many don’t like the lad but... he’s a really fucking good player and a good leader on the pitch with a steely determination and focus.
He’s been that way for a while as well.
He’s been that way for a while as well.
I mentioned that earlier. It's like watching a different player.
I don’t understand some people.
It’s not black and white. He was shite at various stages in his career here and not good enough plenty of times and got assessed accordingly.
Doesn’t mean those that called it as it was were wrong or that he isn’t sensational now.
He’s stepped up massively since Fabhino’s injury and was amazing today.
You can criticise a player in the past without it meaning you can’t praise him when he does well.
It’s not black and white. He was shite at various stages in his career here and not good enough plenty of times and got assessed accordingly.
Doesn’t mean those that called it as it was were wrong or that he isn’t sensational now.
He’s stepped up massively since Fabhino’s injury and was amazing today.
You can criticise a player in the past without it meaning you can’t praise him when he does well.
I definitely fall I to that category. He was Captain Sideways. And in the Fabihno role, that is exactly what is needed 90% of the time.
Our maraudering full backs have definitely raised his game. His cross field passing is sublime.
It is the case that he has been unfairly pilloried at times, and has become the whipping boy when we have more systematic problems on the pitch that are by no means entirely his fault. Nonetheless he just looks like he is playing with so much confidence now that it is a joy to see. I think working with Fabinho has really helped him and now Fabs is injured, he has stepped into that deeper position with a greater sense of what he can bring to the role.
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