WWIII Return of the Ruskie

[Atlas]

I was going to post a few days ago but decided against it, but with all the extra goings on today.

This war/invasion has highlighted a huge number of strands. Aside from the everyday suffering of the Ukrainian people and the horrific turmoil of life under attack.

The speed at which the media narrative switched and keeps people glued.

The racism is actually mental, like how many media outlets had people chatting about its is under fire.. not those uncivilised savages. It's not just the usual ones you might expect but all over the place. I remember that lady journo kicking the dad running with his kid in his arms, now there people crying to Boris?

The sanctions have many strands itself from the way abramovich is being allowed to sell his houses and club to highlighting the mess in the first place.
The push for sporting sanctions, politics has no place in sport.. till they need to use the low hanging fruit of sport.

First time I've seen such wide reaching sanctions, but that is likely a result of the progressive cancel culture type attitude that now infiltrates every facet of society. (And yes, I think it's ok to discuss this without going full Dante, it's real and exists). So those examples of worabout Iraq in 03, that wasn't our world..( in the same way the Suarez arguement didn't stand up when that lad kicked his cat).
Funny also that Ukraine didn't want to take the knee in the Euros right? Maybe they had a real issue with the way the narrative was played out..or maybe they had some other viewpoint, I dunno but now they're getting captains armbands etc.

But on the other hand, China are holding the winter Olympics.. and the Paralympics while having UN request access because they see it as a genocide?
The other actual humanitarian crisis happening currently in Yemen again literally killing people if not bombs by starving them.. yet Saudi get to own a club?

Again man, I don't mean to take away from the real suffering of Ukrainians. I'm just chucking some thoughts out there.
The standing up, applauding and using that as hey look we're the good guys has really sent me today.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I was going to post a few days ago but decided against it, but with all the extra goings on today.

This war/invasion has highlighted a huge number of strands. Aside from the everyday suffering of the Ukrainian people and the horrific turmoil of life under attack.

The speed at which the media narrative switched and keeps people glued.

The racism is actually mental, like how many media outlets had people chatting about its is under fire.. not those uncivilised savages. It's not just the usual ones you might expect but all over the place. I remember that lady journo kicking the dad running with his kid in his arms, now there people crying to Boris?

The sanctions have many strands itself from the way abramovich is being allowed to sell his houses and club to highlighting the mess in the first place.
The push for sporting sanctions, politics has no place in sport.. till they need to use the low hanging fruit of sport.

First time I've seen such wide reaching sanctions, but that is likely a result of the progressive cancel culture type attitude that now infiltrates every facet of society. (And yes, I think it's ok to discuss this without going full Dante, it's real and exists). So those examples of worabout Iraq in 03, that wasn't our world..( in the same way the Suarez arguement didn't stand up when that lad kicked his cat).
Funny also that Ukraine didn't want to take the knee in the Euros right? Maybe they had a real issue with the way the narrative was played out..or maybe they had some other viewpoint, I dunno but now they're getting captains armbands etc.

But on the other hand, China are holding the winter Olympics.. and the Paralympics while having UN request access because they see it as a genocide?
The other actual humanitarian crisis happening currently in Yemen again literally killing people if not bombs by starving them.. yet Saudi get to own a club?

Again man, I don't mean to take away from the real suffering of Ukrainians. I'm just chucking some thoughts out there.
The standing up, applauding and using that as hey look we're the good guys has really sent me today.

Also noticed how many lies for the ukrainians are being spread? Granted, they're the good guys here but still... I just dont trust the media on this shit.

Wrt china - they will soon 'own' like they own Africa... wanted to type some dark humor here, but not sure it's appropriate

 

[Atlas]

They wore yellow and blue clothes and stood in solidarity. Putin has no idea what's coming cos Biden doesn't have a clue either.

 

[dantes]

 

[Atlas]

Also noticed how many lies for the ukrainians are being spread? Granted, they're the good guys here but still... I just dont trust the media on this shit.

Wrt china - they will soon 'own' like they own Africa... wanted to type some dark humor here, but not sure it's appropriate

Does anybody even trust the media anymore on anything?
I'm sure there are plenty of lies but also wonder how much of this is attempt to put of Russia and Putin or whatver..

Back to my post earlier in the thread where I said the Ukrainian PM was on same gangsta shit..
I mean he still is but he is an actor..I'm sure he can channel a great war time PM and has played the whole thing well... Credit to him and more power.

I hope he and Ukraine survive this to rebuild their country

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Does anybody even trust the media anymore on anything?
I'm sure there are plenty of lies but also wonder how much of this is attempt to put of Russia and Putin or whatver..

Back to my post earlier in the thread where I said the Ukrainian PM was on same gangsta shit..
I mean he still is but he is an actor..I'm sure he can channel a great war time PM and has played the whole thing well... Credit to him and more power.

I hope he and Ukraine survive this to rebuild their country

100% -
That's the reason, but still - it just continues the issue of trust and the media, which is probably at an all time low (if it recovers).

 

[LeTallecWiz]

livescore won't show russian scores anymore.
fifa and nhl games erasing russian teams etc ...
Not sure this is what is necessary?

@rurikbird - thoughts on this kind of stuff?

 

[rurikbird]

livescore won't show russian scores anymore.
fifa and nhl games erasing russian teams etc ...
Not sure this is what is necessary?

@rurikbird - thoughts on this kind of stuff?

Yeah, I wish all kind of ruin on Russia right now (so that they wake up from their imperialistic fever dreams and stop indiscriminately shelling our cities) but I draw the line at livescore. #RussianScoresMatter.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Yeah, I wish all kind of ruin on Russia right now (so that they wake up from their imperialistic fever dreams and stop indiscriminately shelling our cities) but I draw the line at livescore. #RussianScoresMatter.

I was being serious though - who are they 'punishing' with these moves?
Was reading on espn.com about a Ukranian born agent of NHL stars (Ukraine and Russia) and he was saying how his Russian players are being ostracized etc ... Surely we have to differentiate between the asshole leader, the people fighting for him and those who are either opposed or living 10km away

 

[rurikbird]

I was being serious though - who are they 'punishing' with these moves?
Was reading on espn.com about a Ukranian born agent of NHL stars (Ukraine and Russia) and he was saying how his Russian players are being ostracized etc ... Surely we have to differentiate between the asshole leader, the people fighting for him and those who are either opposed or living 10km away

I agree to an extent – some people want to kick random Russians out from all Western universities etc; I don't think that's warranted. If they are oligarch or Duma members' kids, that's another matter...

The livescore stuff is probably simply impractical at this point – I would think that involves paying some people in Russia, which is now very problematic with the bank system being cut off etc.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I agree to an extent – some people want to kick random Russians out from all Western universities etc; I don't think that's warranted. If they are oligarch or Duma members' kids, that's another matter...

pro putin oligarch - agree
duma members - agree
their kids? not sure that's right ... why do you think it's a fair target?

 

[rurikbird]

pro putin oligarch - agree
duma members - agree
their kids? not sure that's right ... why do you think it's a fair target?

Of course it is. 100%. They are basically robbing and imprisoning the Russian people to send their kids to college in the West, many of their spouses live in the West too, own properties etc. You can't have it both ways – help construct a fascist dictatorship inside, but enjoy nice life of freedom and privilege outside. They need to taste the life their dads created for the ordinary Russians and hopefully put the pressure on them to stop this madness.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Of course it is. 100%. They are basically robbing and imprisoning the Russian people to send their kids to college in the West, many of their spouses live in the West too, own properties etc. You can't have it both ways – help construct a fascist dictatorship inside, but enjoy nice life of freedom and privilege outside. They need to taste the life their dads created for the ordinary Russians and hopefully put the pressure on them to stop this madness.

The father or mother working for the Russian state - ok.
It doesn't sit well with me that the kids but I understand the logic behind the point.

 

[kingjulian]

I was being serious though - who are they 'punishing' with these moves?
Was reading on espn.com about a Ukranian born agent of NHL stars (Ukraine and Russia) and he was saying how his Russian players are being ostracized etc ... Surely we have to differentiate between the asshole leader, the people fighting for him and those who are either opposed or living 10km away

Im trying to have a neutral view. But all the other atrocities highlighted Iran, Yemen, Balkan War etc dont really compare size of the agression here and the implied meaning here...

1. None of those other occassions lead to a nuclear war scorched earth scenario. Russian ministers are openly issuing nuclear threats and they have the payload to destroy all of earth.
2. None of them are the largest annexation of territory since world wad2. Lets remember the previous largest annexation (Crimea) was also perpetrated by Russia. I can see Russian argument of Ukraine joining Nato/EU being against Russian sscurity interest. But ultimately Ukraine is not Russia and Russia cant control the will of the people of another country. This is no excuse for outright invasion. In principle its hard to agree with the idea that former soviet countries need to act according to Russian interest.
3. Pretty much the largest deployment of troops i have known in my lifetime and the casuality figures are astounding for 6 days.

These 3 factors and especially the number 1 makes it paramount that Russia are persuaded/isolated/made to see sense by any means possible.....now is not that time for asking whatabout that other human rights issue. There is a resoonsibility to stop this from escalating in to a WW3 scenario and at the same time not runaway from the issue and avoiding confrontation with russia due to the fact that annexations of this scale should not be accepted without challenge from the rest of the world... then we might as well disband UN etc and go back to pre world war free for all empire building tactics.

 

[Red rose]

Just so sad watching the news ..
so many atrocities

 

[Delinquent]

This is so insane – Putin's strategic goal is to bring Ukraine back into Russia's orbit. What do they think will happen to these children when they grow up? After their formative experience of hiding in the bomb shelters from Russian missiles while their fathers and sometimes mothers guard the entrances with their lives? Will they want to be anywhere near the Russian orbit, to be subservient to Russians or to be their friends? Will they fuck.

This is how 'terrorists' are born. Although I suspect they'll be called 'freedom fighters' in this case.

 

[dantes]

Just so sad watching the news ..
so many atrocities

The news are largely to blame for all of those atrocities.

 

[Red rose]

The news are largely to blame for all of those atrocities.

Yeh Lots to blame if we want to blame
Awful sadness

 

[rurikbird]

This is how 'terrorists' are born. Although I suspect they'll be called 'freedom fighters' in this case.

The best way to create a committed enemy is to threaten their survival, but not finish the job. Putin kind of did it in 2014 when he had the Ukrainian army on the run, but stopped short of pressing his advantage. Ukraine used these 8 years to rebuild her army and the country is much more united now. If Putin doesn't succeed in his goal of complete annihilation of Ukraine and her national identity (and he won't), the next generation of Ukrainians will be the most anti-Russian (and consequently pro-Western) in our history.

 

[mark1975]

100% -
That's the reason, but still - it just continues the issue of trust and the media, which is probably at an all time low (if it recovers).

Is it at an all time low though? It seems more complex than that. Like societies know it, but are prepared to accept it if it fits their agenda or acts as a form of comfort blanket against what's really happening.

Many were prepared to believe Farage and then the Tories with their BBC fed positive spin about Brexit and then voted on the back of a largely faked campaign. The media fed public ignorance and the masses lapped it up and still believe it was right, despite the obvious disaster it's been.

It's a dangerous game, but it's a game "some" people seem happy/prepared to be manipulated by. It's not just high level fake news is it? Every local report is infested with agenda and provocation, and then the masses turn to social media or whatever to feed the bullshit some more.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Was listening to a Russian blogger in St Petersburg about how sanctions affect life ...
Fascinating reality and pretty scary how their (& consequently ours too) money is not really under our control (or worth that much if the powers that be decide to act accordingly) ...

As for yesterday -
Reports are 1,000,000 Ukrainians have left country now ... in a week.
Kiev got rocked by a massive blast.

 

[rurikbird]

The father or mother working for the Russian state - ok.
It doesn't sit well with me that the kids but I understand the logic behind the point.

I understand your unease and normally I would agree that families are off-limits, but even forgetting Ukraine, let's look at it from the Russian perspective. The country is basically fast on the way back to USSR minus the ideology. Kids are literally getting arrested for laying a bouquet of flowers in front of the Ukrainian embassy. The last 2 not fully government controlled mass-media channels were taken off air today. People are getting 10-15 year prison sentences for a Tweet or a repost.

And that was before the current events – now we'll be looking at possible confiscation of foreign currency savings, ban on foreign travel, military draft, possibly a version of martial law and even more draconian sentences for any perceived expression of dissent. And people who are passing and rubber-stamping all these laws will have kids studying economics and English law at Cambridge? It's just grotesque. They can't put everyone else in a de-facto prison, but insulate their own family from any consequences. Those kids being forced to come back to Russia and begging their parents to change course is probably our best hope for ending this conflict.

 

[dantes]

Is it at an all time low though? It seems more complex than that. Like societies know it, but are prepared to accept it if it fits their agenda or acts as a form of comfort blanket against what's really happening.

Many were prepared to believe Farage and then the Tories with their BBC fed positive spin about Brexit and then voted on the back of a largely faked campaign. The media fed public ignorance and the masses lapped it up and still believe it was right, despite the obvious disaster it's been.

It's a dangerous game, but it's a game "some" people seem happy/prepared to be manipulated by. It's not just high level fake news is it? Every local report is infested with agenda and provocation, and then the masses turn to social media or whatever to feed the bullshit some more.

If memory serves, I used to use that phrase a lot, and you were amongst those who told me to shut the fuck up etc etc. Turns out it was the correct phrase. Currently you don't like the phrase virtue signal and are telling me to shut the fuck up etc etc. Let's see how that turns out.

 

[dantes]

I understand your unease and normally I would agree that families are off-limits, but even forgetting Ukraine, let's look at it from the Russian perspective. The country is basically fast on the way back to USSR minus the ideology. Kids are literally getting arrested for laying a bouquet of flowers in front of the Ukrainian embassy. The last 2 not fully government controlled mass-media channels were taken off air today. People are getting 10-15 year prison sentences for a Tweet or a repost.

And that was before the current events – now we'll be looking at possible confiscation of foreign currency savings, ban on foreign travel, military draft, possibly a version of martial law and even more draconian sentences for any perceived expression of dissent. And people who are passing and rubber-stamping all these laws will have kids studying economics and English law at Cambridge? It's just grotesque. They can't put everyone else in a de-facto prison, but insulate their own family from any consequences. Those kids being forced to come back to Russia and begging their parents to change course is probably the best hope for ending this conflict.

I doubt they're trying to "insulate" their kids from any consequences. Who would dare touch one of Putin's kids in Russia? They'd be living a life of royalty. The reason they're at Cambridge or at Harvard studying is because those are the best degrees money can buy and puts them into contact with the children of other elite world leaders (lol for arguments sake), and Putin is not short of money. It's as simple as that. I'm afraid your hopes are a delusion.

 

[StevieM]

If memory serves, I used to use that phrase a lot, and you were amongst those who told me to shut the fuck up etc etc. Turns out it was the correct phrase. Currently you don't like the phrase virtue signal and are telling me to shut the fuck up etc etc. Let's see how that turns out.

Yeah, but you only stopped using “virtue signal” because you developed an addiction to typing “woke” at least twice in every post.

 

[mark1975]

If memory serves, I used to use that phrase a lot, and you were amongst those who told me to shut the fuck up etc etc. Turns out it was the correct phrase. Currently you don't like the phrase virtue signal and are telling me to shut the fuck up etc etc. Let's see how that turns out.

What phrase? Virtue signaling? Are you deliberately vague to disguise the crap you hide behind? Because you're the first to post unsubstantiated, agenda driven shite Dantes, so yeah. It's nothing new is it and I'm not even sure it's an all time low, it's just getting more exposure because of current events.

 

[dantes]

What phrase? Are you deliberately vague to disguise the crap you hide behind? Because you're the first to post unsubstantiated, agenda driven shite Dantes.

The bolded phrase, "fake news". That's not what I'm doing, you grossly underestimate my analytical skills and vastly overestimate the complexity of these various topics you disagree with me about.

 

[mark1975]

The bolded phrase, "fake news". That's not what I'm doing, you grossly underestimate my analytical skills and vastly overestimate the complexity of these various topics you disagree with me about.

Ha.. I'm on a smart phone on route to work. I didn't reread my own post like some self obsessive, so apologies for missing you bolding two words of my post.

 

[dantes]

Did the smart phone also make you forget to log in to the correct account?

 

[Rosco]

Did the smart phone also make you forget to log in to the correct account?

That happens to the best of us