And apply that to pre-purchase/ early days threads on here on to Mane, Salah, Fabinho, Keita, Firmino and whoever .... I would be very surprised if Klopp couldn't make something of him.
Wilson bids
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I liked how Wilson looked in central/attacking midfield in the last 20 minutes of the Napoli game – very positive and direct, always looking to turn and run forward after receiving the ball and using the threat of his left-foot shot effectively to advance the play. Maybe in Klopp's system (as opposed to Lampard's at Derby) he fits better at RCM than on the wing.
Radio this morning saying Bournemouth are in for him.
Trust in Woland
Good old Bournemouth. £30m please
Haha, yeah. A figure of £20-25 mill.was mentioned as it happens. I'd be well chuffed with that - we are SO much better at this now than we used to be.
if they're interested, we should get 25 mill ...
I will generally trust Klopp on these - but there must be something/ someone in his mind who is going to break into the first team if we are selling Ibe, Solanke now Wilson etc. I imgaine we'll flog Ojo for a similar fee once he bangs in 20 goals for Rangers in the SPL.
That would be nice. Kent also seem close to leaving.
I'd sell but with some kind of sell on / buy back clause.
Thats also an option yeah
We're not signing anyone. Don't get your hopes up.
Klopp on Wilson:
“We are in constant conversation, that's clear,” said the Reds boss. “We have to do the right thing for us and for the boy. That's how it is.
“It's nothing to talk in public about it, so we will see what happens in the next eight or nine days until the window closes.
“He is obviously a really good player. I've been really happy with him all pre-season, he came back from Derby completely different.
“That's a good example of how a loan can really work out. For Derby it was really good, for Harry it was, and for us as well.”
Klopp added: “I'm happy that he could show that again today. He didn't play in his best position, but on the left wing did really well.
“Harry did a really good job for us, scored a wonderful goal, a Harry Wilson special. That was really cool.
“We tried to set him up a little bit, so it's more comfortable for him. And when he scored the goal, it was just Harry. It was brilliant.”
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Not looking great.
“We are in constant conversation, that's clear,” said the Reds boss. “We have to do the right thing for us and for the boy. That's how it is.
“It's nothing to talk in public about it, so we will see what happens in the next eight or nine days until the window closes.
“He is obviously a really good player. I've been really happy with him all pre-season, he came back from Derby completely different.
“That's a good example of how a loan can really work out. For Derby it was really good, for Harry it was, and for us as well.”
Klopp added: “I'm happy that he could show that again today. He didn't play in his best position, but on the left wing did really well.
“Harry did a really good job for us, scored a wonderful goal, a Harry Wilson special. That was really cool.
“We tried to set him up a little bit, so it's more comfortable for him. And when he scored the goal, it was just Harry. It was brilliant.”
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Not looking great.
That's has the "We're open to offers" look to it
The stats that suggest Harry Wilson would be a ‘Moneyball’ solution for Liverpool
Samuel Cox
@samueljessecox
Harry Wilson’s stunning goal against Lyon was a timely reminder of his rare talent, and the addition of his unique skills to the Liverpool squad could be a ‘Moneyball’ play.
The existence and inner workings of the Reds’ director of research Ian Graham and his data analysis and modelling team were given a fascinating expose in the New York Times in May.
Such analysis should not have been surprising given Fenway Sports Group had previously, and famously, embraced ‘Moneyball’ style analytics in baseball with the Boston Red Sox, achieving phenomenal results. While I cannot claim to have either the skills or resources of Graham’s team, there is one clear statistical area where Wilson stands out and it is a comparative weakness of Jurgen Klopp’s Liverpool. Many Liverpool fans have bemoaned the lack of transfer action, but with only limited squad roles, the only clear holes which need filling Klopp’s team have been looking to do so with youth. And Wilson offers statistically rare abilities which would be pricey on the open market.
Playing for Frank Lampard’s Derby side last season Wilson scored 15 goals and contributed three assists in 40 Championship appearances. This record enabled the young Welshman to be the 10th-highest goalscorer in the second tier, averaging a goal every 216 minutes and shooting with an accuracy of 53 percent. If we include the play-off games and cup competitions, his record becomes 18 goals and five assists from 49 games across all competitions. This is an excellent return from a player who operates in wide midfield or an attacking midfield role, but does not in and of itself appear enough to merit inclusion in a European Cup-winning Liverpool squad. Goals are gold dust for a midfielder or wide attacker at the elite level, but it is the type of goals Wilson scores which make him an anomaly.
Of the 15 goals he scored in the Championship, seven were from outside the box and of those three were from free-kicks. As a point of comparison, Liverpool’s entire team scored five goals from outside the box last season in the Premier League. In fact, Wilson scored more goals from outside the box last season than 10 entire Premier League teams managed across 38 games. Exceptional work, but Wilson’s free-kick statistics rank even higher on the scale of rare brilliance. Three goals from free-kicks sounds like decent output until, once again, it is put into a Premier League context. Across the 2018/19 season three teams tied in the Premier League for most goals from free-kicks, with Arsenal, Leicester and Southampton managing three apiece. Liverpool’s season total: one.
Such statistics highlight Wilson’s long-range shooting ability, whether from open play or over a dead ball, as being in the top echelon. However, can Wilson replicate his success at the Premier League level where the players and goalkeepers reach a higher calibre? Well the current evidence suggests Wilson’s shooting ability does translate to the higher level, as he scored two goals from free-kicks against Premier League teams in cup competitions last season. One was a cleverly disguised curler against Southampton in the FA Cup. However, the one Liverpool fans will remember most fondly was the stellar top-corner screamer at Man United, in which the ‘five times’ celebration was brazenly waved in front of the shocked faces of Old Trafford. If we include these, Wilson’s goal statistics from distance reach nine total goals from outside of the box, five of which were free-kicks, across all competitions.
Speaking after his brilliant strike against Lyon, Klopp revealed a conversation he had with the 22-year-old on translating this ability to the top tier—noting the difference in balls used. “We spoke the day before yesterday about the ball, because obviously in the Championship they play with a different ball,” he told LFCTV. “I don’t know exactly how to describe it, but obviously now he’s got used to this ball as well!”
The other statistic which definitively headlines Wilson’s year at Derby is that he was the joint-second most-fouled player in the Championship, averaging 2.7 fouls against per game. This shows although diminutive in stature, Harry is a clever player who protects the ball exceptionally well, while his ability to win free-kicks synchronises nicely with his aptitude for scoring from them.
Given that Liverpool were ranked 14th in goals from outside the box, yet finished with 98 points, the value of those goals could be questioned. However, it is worth noting that Man City were the No. 1 Premier League team in this regard, with 15 successful long-range shots across the season. If Liverpool are to close the gap, goals from distance offer a clear area for improvement.
The long-range goal’s value is that it can bail out the team on a day it has not created clear-cut chances, or alternatively, failed to convert them. Additionally, they heighten the team’s unpredictability. Few will forget City were on their way to a 0-0 draw against Leicester in the penultimate game of last season, looking bereft of inspiration and ideas, when Vincent Kompany scored the goal of his life from range to win the game and, ultimately, the Premier League. Liverpool have lacked a long-range shooting specialist since Philippe Coutinho packed his bags for Barcelona.
The numbers suggest Harry Wilson can be that man.
============
One point I want to add to this article is that Wilson's best position in Klopp's system is probably as the most advanced midfielder in a 4-3-3. When everyone is healthy, there is some decent competition there: Hendo, Milner, Ox and Lallana are the primary candidates and Gini and Keita can also play there on occasion (even though both are better in a slightly deeper role) – it probably wouldn't make sense to keep Wilson if he's going to be the 6th or 7th choice. However if we went back to the type of "control" 4-2-3-1 style from the first half of last season, then there would be an extra spot for an AM and one of the wingers could also play "tucked-in," which would suit a player like Wilson and open more pathways to getting minutes. A more patient build-up style would also use his qualities, such as the ability to earn and convert free-kicks.
Given the packed fixture list from Sunday till the league break in February, it would definitely make sense to have one more attacking midfielder in the team. I think there is still a possibility that we might buy someone for this position on the market – if not, I am completely fine with using Wilson. Like Origi, he is not a very well-rounded player, but his strong qualities are exceptionally strong, which makes it easier for a manager like Klopp to find him a place in the system where those qualities can be used to great effect.
Samuel Cox
Harry Wilson’s stunning goal against Lyon was a timely reminder of his rare talent, and the addition of his unique skills to the Liverpool squad could be a ‘Moneyball’ play.
The existence and inner workings of the Reds’ director of research Ian Graham and his data analysis and modelling team were given a fascinating expose in the New York Times in May.
Such analysis should not have been surprising given Fenway Sports Group had previously, and famously, embraced ‘Moneyball’ style analytics in baseball with the Boston Red Sox, achieving phenomenal results. While I cannot claim to have either the skills or resources of Graham’s team, there is one clear statistical area where Wilson stands out and it is a comparative weakness of Jurgen Klopp’s Liverpool. Many Liverpool fans have bemoaned the lack of transfer action, but with only limited squad roles, the only clear holes which need filling Klopp’s team have been looking to do so with youth. And Wilson offers statistically rare abilities which would be pricey on the open market.
Playing for Frank Lampard’s Derby side last season Wilson scored 15 goals and contributed three assists in 40 Championship appearances. This record enabled the young Welshman to be the 10th-highest goalscorer in the second tier, averaging a goal every 216 minutes and shooting with an accuracy of 53 percent. If we include the play-off games and cup competitions, his record becomes 18 goals and five assists from 49 games across all competitions. This is an excellent return from a player who operates in wide midfield or an attacking midfield role, but does not in and of itself appear enough to merit inclusion in a European Cup-winning Liverpool squad. Goals are gold dust for a midfielder or wide attacker at the elite level, but it is the type of goals Wilson scores which make him an anomaly.
Of the 15 goals he scored in the Championship, seven were from outside the box and of those three were from free-kicks. As a point of comparison, Liverpool’s entire team scored five goals from outside the box last season in the Premier League. In fact, Wilson scored more goals from outside the box last season than 10 entire Premier League teams managed across 38 games. Exceptional work, but Wilson’s free-kick statistics rank even higher on the scale of rare brilliance. Three goals from free-kicks sounds like decent output until, once again, it is put into a Premier League context. Across the 2018/19 season three teams tied in the Premier League for most goals from free-kicks, with Arsenal, Leicester and Southampton managing three apiece. Liverpool’s season total: one.
Such statistics highlight Wilson’s long-range shooting ability, whether from open play or over a dead ball, as being in the top echelon. However, can Wilson replicate his success at the Premier League level where the players and goalkeepers reach a higher calibre? Well the current evidence suggests Wilson’s shooting ability does translate to the higher level, as he scored two goals from free-kicks against Premier League teams in cup competitions last season. One was a cleverly disguised curler against Southampton in the FA Cup. However, the one Liverpool fans will remember most fondly was the stellar top-corner screamer at Man United, in which the ‘five times’ celebration was brazenly waved in front of the shocked faces of Old Trafford. If we include these, Wilson’s goal statistics from distance reach nine total goals from outside of the box, five of which were free-kicks, across all competitions.
Speaking after his brilliant strike against Lyon, Klopp revealed a conversation he had with the 22-year-old on translating this ability to the top tier—noting the difference in balls used. “We spoke the day before yesterday about the ball, because obviously in the Championship they play with a different ball,” he told LFCTV. “I don’t know exactly how to describe it, but obviously now he’s got used to this ball as well!”
The other statistic which definitively headlines Wilson’s year at Derby is that he was the joint-second most-fouled player in the Championship, averaging 2.7 fouls against per game. This shows although diminutive in stature, Harry is a clever player who protects the ball exceptionally well, while his ability to win free-kicks synchronises nicely with his aptitude for scoring from them.
Given that Liverpool were ranked 14th in goals from outside the box, yet finished with 98 points, the value of those goals could be questioned. However, it is worth noting that Man City were the No. 1 Premier League team in this regard, with 15 successful long-range shots across the season. If Liverpool are to close the gap, goals from distance offer a clear area for improvement.
The long-range goal’s value is that it can bail out the team on a day it has not created clear-cut chances, or alternatively, failed to convert them. Additionally, they heighten the team’s unpredictability. Few will forget City were on their way to a 0-0 draw against Leicester in the penultimate game of last season, looking bereft of inspiration and ideas, when Vincent Kompany scored the goal of his life from range to win the game and, ultimately, the Premier League. Liverpool have lacked a long-range shooting specialist since Philippe Coutinho packed his bags for Barcelona.
The numbers suggest Harry Wilson can be that man.
============
One point I want to add to this article is that Wilson's best position in Klopp's system is probably as the most advanced midfielder in a 4-3-3. When everyone is healthy, there is some decent competition there: Hendo, Milner, Ox and Lallana are the primary candidates and Gini and Keita can also play there on occasion (even though both are better in a slightly deeper role) – it probably wouldn't make sense to keep Wilson if he's going to be the 6th or 7th choice. However if we went back to the type of "control" 4-2-3-1 style from the first half of last season, then there would be an extra spot for an AM and one of the wingers could also play "tucked-in," which would suit a player like Wilson and open more pathways to getting minutes. A more patient build-up style would also use his qualities, such as the ability to earn and convert free-kicks.
Given the packed fixture list from Sunday till the league break in February, it would definitely make sense to have one more attacking midfielder in the team. I think there is still a possibility that we might buy someone for this position on the market – if not, I am completely fine with using Wilson. Like Origi, he is not a very well-rounded player, but his strong qualities are exceptionally strong, which makes it easier for a manager like Klopp to find him a place in the system where those qualities can be used to great effect.
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I'd keep him for the reasons offered, he might break the deadlock in some games, not that it's always easy to be a bench option and provide that kind of quality with a short appearance, but it's the next stage of progression for him, should he stay.
Klopp definitely sounds like he's selling though.
Klopp definitely sounds like he's selling though.
There are very few obvious gaps in this squad, a decent left back to cover Robertson, a creative no10 type and a midfielder who offers a threat from outside the box. Wilson potentially gives us that option, I wouldnt ecpect him to replicate the same number of goals he acored in the Championship but we do need a different option when teams are prepared to drop deep and sit 10 players behind the ball.
I look at him and reckon he would be a Lallana level player in a few seasons. However, for Lallana to get to where he was when we bought him had played much football even at League 1 level. I'd keep but this lad really needs games.
As this piece suggests, he has skills that are in short supply in our team. He definitely has the potential to be a last 20-30 minute player, especially when we need a goal. In the absence of another signing, I think it is a no-brainer.
I think fans would be up in arms if he was sold considering we haven't signed any senior players (though I'll keep hoping up until the midnight hour of deadline day) - outrage may be so high that we see a Wilson Picket(t) outside Anfield if he goes.
Sigh...here, take the pity like.
Anyway, I'm not against selling him. He's 22, and I don't think he has enough in his locker to be a viable long term option for us. I don't mind him staying either, cause we need another attacking option.
His value is pretty high now though...
I think the key phrase from Klopp was “we have to do what’s best for us and the boy”. At 22 he needs to be playing week in and week out to improve and have a good as a career he can. He won’t get that here.
If we're selling him in order to use the money to bring someone in then that makes sense but if we sell him and then don't bring another player in then all we've done is weaken the squad slightly which I don't see the point in. His value won't have dropped that much by Christmas so why not see if he can help the squad in the meantime even if it's only domestic cup appearances and the odd 10 or 15 minutes from the bench.
It's not just about giving this lad minutes but saving the legs over the course of a long season for the likes of Mane and Salah.
It's not just about giving this lad minutes but saving the legs over the course of a long season for the likes of Mane and Salah.
Respectfully, no, Mr Klopp. We need to do what is right for Liverpool fc. No other consideration comes into it.
Not to disagree, but I suspect his response would be that the two descriptions boil down to the same thing.
I don't know, JJ. What's right for Wilson's development is probably, as momowasboss suggests, starting every week, which he'll not do for us. However, what's right for LFC might be having him as an impact sub with a hammer of a left boot, likely to get us a late goal in games where we're struggling to break a team down. Of course, ultimately that might work to Wilson's benefit if he regularly makes an impact.
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