Why do so many logical posters become so crazy?

[Dreambeliever]

I've never seen a board swing from on extreme to the next, game after game as much as SCM.

You'll always get a few kneejerkers but Christ this place takes the biscuit.

2 weeks ago Babel was a piece of shit, now he looks like the only goal threat with a bit of pace we have and should play.

1 week ago Jovanovic looked superb, now he's a slow ace piece of shit offering no width and no better than Riera.

Last week we looked decent and had something to build on, now we look like we need 10 million new players to even think about the top 4.

How do so many change their opinion on a match by match basis and by so much.

It makes the site lauaghable at times.

Or is just me that see's this?

We are 2 games into a 38 game season where the top teams will all drop points yet some are ready to throw in the towel already?

What next? If put 6 past West Brom are we suddenly world beaters again?

 

[localny]

It's hard not to go on a spiral of negativity, when this happens..

We looked bad...

We had the Mascherano trigger....

Roy seemed a bit lost...

Our club is in flux/in the throes of something awful...

Tis hard to be positive when all around is challenging...

BUT, we're not as bad as our reaction suggests. We have enough to build on..

 

[Farkmaster]

I've had the same opinion for the last several months. Right after the signing of Cole a bunch of people thought I was being crazily negative. Now that nothing has happened in this transfer season to address our issues, Mascherano has indicated that he is going, and made Hodgson look like a tit in the process, and most importantly, people have seen us play, they are realizing that there are all the same problems as last year, and VERY little time to cobble together the deals to address them with 0 net spend.

Perhaps we'll do good work, perhaps it was Hodgson negotiating in the press, and he hasn't been caught by surprise, perhaps as you think, Babel will suddenly catch fire. But people are correct to be very worried, because is it so crazy to think that we basically know this set of players, what they can't do, and what they can't, after seeing most of them for years now?

Again, with much the same team, less a world class DM, we have much the same problems and then some. Let's assume that Hodgson will get more out of a team that underperformed last year. Getting more out of them doesn't equate to getting 4th neccesarily, not with Man City improving to the extent that they have.

It's been a god awful summer, and the only thing that has distracted people is the idea that we'd be sold, and Joe Cole, who people think is some game changing transfer for some reason I can't fathom.

 

[Modo]

The only thing that can repair this is a couple of exciting signings.
I'm not blaming the players for this one. Hodgson is the one who decided that we'd play 4-4-2.

 

[LarryHagman]

Dreamy, what are you basing your optimism on considering you have spent the last 2 years telling everyone how shit we are? Signing Joe Cole?

We are no stronger than last season when we came 7th and have watched most of our rivals add to their ranks.

Getting top 4 is going to be nigh on impossible with that squad of players.

 

[Y1]

We are a WIP for the next five years if Roy is given the chance for that long. I am not looking for award to any titles realistically during this period.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41560.msg1160539#msg1160539 date=1282621331]
I've had the same opinion for the last several months. Right after the signing of Cole a bunch of people thought I was being crazily negative. Now that nothing has happened in this transfer season to address our issues, Mascherano has indicated that he is going, and made Hodgson look like a tit in the process, and most importantly, people have seen us play, they are realizing that there are all the same problems as last year, and VERY little time to cobble together the deals to address them with 0 net spend.

Perhaps we'll do good work, perhaps it was Hodgson negotiating in the press, and he hasn't been caught by surprise, perhaps as you think, Babel will suddenly catch fire. But people are correct to be very worried, because is it so crazy to think that we basically know this set of players, what they can't do, and what they can't, after seeing most of them for years now?

Again, with much the same team, less a world class DM, we have much the same problems and then some. Let's assume that Hodgson will get more out of a team that underperformed last year. Getting more out of them doesn't equate to getting 4th neccesarily, not with Man City improving to the extent that they have.

It's been a god awful summer, and the only thing that has distracted people is the idea that we'd be sold, and Joe Cole, who people think is some game changing transfer for some reason I can't fathom.
[/quote]

I can see what your saying, but I was more referring to those who change their opinion drastically with the wind.
For instance you have voiced your concerns for months and have not moved from that stance, even after some promising signs. i.e JC signing and how we played against Arsenal in the 2nd half.

Likewise I've been pretty upbeat (for me anyway) this season and one awful game isn't going to change that.

It may be an over simplistic view but I think alot of issues from last season can be addressed with some tactital changes and some confidence within the squad. 2 things Roy can bring. He has shown at Fulham what a bunch of average players playing for each other full fo confidence can achieve or in their case overachieve.

Why not here?

With a very similar team to 2 years ago we ran close to winning the league.
We can easily get 4th in my opinion with the current squad once we get some confidence barring serious injury.

Anyway back on topic........ why do so many change their opinion so drastically so often.

Mark my words in 2 months everyone will be singing Babel's praises and saying they always knew he had it in him, yet right now their about 7 who think that and before his goal the other night there were 2.

We are so extremely up and down its untrue.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Modokay link=topic=41560.msg1160540#msg1160540 date=1282621963]
The only thing that can repair this is a couple of exiting signings.
I'm not blaming the players for this one. Hodgson is the one who decided that we'd play 4-4-2.
[/quote]

----------------Reina-----------------

GJ-------Carra--------Skittles---Agger

Babel----Gerrard------Poulson----Jovan

--------------Cole---------------------
-----------------Torres----------------

That would beat most teams in England if not all.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=41560.msg1160542#msg1160542 date=1282622042]

Dreamy, what are you basing your optimism on considering you have spent the last 2 years telling everyone how shit we are? Signing Joe Cole?

We are no stronger than last season when we came 7th and have watched most of our rivals add to their ranks.

Getting top 4 is going to be nigh on impossible with that squad of players.


[/quote]

Having a manager who gives his players confidence and allows them to attack.
We had a solid squad with some exceptional talent.
Last year we were awful, shocking had woeful injuries to big players and still could have got 4th with 3 games to go.

We will get 4th easily this year. Every team will drop points this season.

The gap is closing. Last year we lost to average teams. I don't see it happening as often this year.

We all knew we had a nightmare start but 5 weeks in our season will not be over.

 

[RolandG]

I think that last nights result exposed our squad depth and strength. Although we played well in small bursts, we were consistently second best. What was worrying is not that we lost but how? We showed no heart.

I back Roy on his Mascherano stance. He is a Liverpool contracted player and Barca will pay what we want or he rots in the Reserves. They'll be back with an offer worth considering.

As for 4-4-2. Roy was ballsy to play that but it would be best served at Anfield or against less fancied opposition. Aurelio should have started ahead of Agger at LB for starters. There were too many non performers and it added up. It felt like we were caught in the headlights and Roy waited too long to make any changes. Needless to say, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

The bubble has well and truly burst. So much for the feel good factor. I'm distraught! Roy has to work his magic and urgently address the postions at LB, LW and a back-up striker. Maybe it's time that Magic gets a run at RW. He can do no worse than Kuyt?

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=41560.msg1160546#msg1160546 date=1282624370]
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=41560.msg1160540#msg1160540 date=1282621963]
The only thing that can repair this is a couple of exiting signings.
I'm not blaming the players for this one. Hodgson is the one who decided that we'd play 4-4-2.
[/quote]

----------------Reina-----------------

GJ-------Carra--------Skittles---Agger

Babel----Gerrard------Poulson----Jovan

--------------Cole---------------------
-----------------Torres----------------

That would beat most teams in England if not all.
[/quote]

No it wouldn't. I honestly think you are insane.

Poulsen and Gerrard is not a fantastic partnership. Babel and Jovanovich are not great wingers. Agger isn't a left back.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41560.msg1160551#msg1160551 date=1282625743]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=41560.msg1160546#msg1160546 date=1282624370]
[quote author=Modokay link=topic=41560.msg1160540#msg1160540 date=1282621963]
The only thing that can repair this is a couple of exiting signings.
I'm not blaming the players for this one. Hodgson is the one who decided that we'd play 4-4-2.
[/quote]

----------------Reina-----------------

GJ-------Carra--------Skittles---Agger

Babel----Gerrard------Poulson----Jovan

--------------Cole---------------------
-----------------Torres----------------

That would beat most teams in England if not all.
[/quote]

No it wouldn't. I honestly think you are insane.

Poulsen and Gerrard is not a fantastic partnership. Babel and Jovanovich are not great wingers. Agger isn't a left back.
[/quote]

Poulsen is a DM so I think he would compliment Gerrard's style and it would certainly be enough to beat most CM pairings in England.

Babel needs a coach who believes in him.

Jovanivic, well time will tell but we have options in Maxi and Kuyt.

And Aurelio can also play LB.

Plus when fit the three pronged attack of Gerrard Cole and Torres is up there with the best on the planet and could beat most teams on their own.

I cannot wait to see them together.

 

[zlatan18]

Good Post. People need to relax, its only one game against a side thats expected to come close to winning the title this season. Shit result but saying the season is over is a mass exageration

 

[StevieM]

We weren't that great against an Arsenal side that didn't colick. We were ok... nothing special.

Again against Man City.. we weren't compeltely terrible.. we were just outclassed by the mnost expensively assembled squad ever wanting to impress in their first home game of the season.

Anyone though that it would be easy for us to get back in to the top 4 is deluded.

However... Hodgson always needed to start putting results together quickly or pressure would build.

We need to get past Trabzonspor and get a good reulst against WBA.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=41560.msg1160547#msg1160547 date=1282624541]
Having a manager who gives his players confidence and allows them to attack.
We had a solid squad with some exceptional talent.
Last year we were awful, shocking had woeful injuries to big players and still could have got 4th with 3 games to go.

We will get 4th easily this year. Every team will drop points this season.

The gap is closing. Last year we lost to average teams. I don't see it happening as often this year.

We all knew we had a nightmare start but 5 weeks in our season will not be over.
[/quote]

Dreamy (and a very apt name). If you think a "bit of confidence and tactics" is going to solve the problems we had last year you're deluded. Manpower, quality of that manpower and the ability to actually fucking buy some manpower - those are are main issues.

Take last night as a microcosm of our issues. Torres - clearly unfit and supported by the willing but not quite able Ngog. We still need another striker. Agger had a nightmare at LB. Well, he's not a fucking left back and shows how much we need one. Mascherano, the little gobshite, decides he doesn't want to pway anymore. (Well fuck off then goofy but not for less than you're worth). Poulsen nowhere near fit yet. Who do we have ? Lucas. Now Lucas may try his best but the simple fact is his best will never be good enough for Liverpool. He hampered Gerrard so much it was unbelievable.

So we need to change things who do we bring on. Babel - a fucking complete and utter waste of fucking space and an embarassment to his own natural talent. Pacheco - no more than a kid. Look at the City bench, creaking with world class talent. We're miles away mate - and whereas our problems are not of Roys making he's got a hell of a problem on his hand - especially with those two leeches running the club.

Bar a minor miracle from Roy Hodgson we're never going to hit 4th - we simply don't have ther depth to do it.

Put it this way mate - if those two despicable twats are allowed to refinance come October we are seriously fucked as a football club. Seriously.

 

[spider-Neil]

my personal opinion is first and foremost play people that are going to be the most effective in that position.

agger should not be playing ahead of aurelio
kuyt should not play on the right wing ahead of maxi

we seem to be going for the safe options, people that will be solid and will work hard to keed things tight, in the end we have a team build to 'destroy' rather than create, a reasonable plan away from home but when you go behind you HAVE to change things, was our plan to defend a one goal deficit?

----------------pepe--------------
johnson---carra---agger---aurelio
maxi---gerrard---poulsen---babel
--------------cole------------------
-------------torres-----------------

is the team I would play for most games. if roy is going to go 4-4-2 I think those are the players to make 4-4-2 work.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=41560.msg1160626#msg1160626 date=1282636148]
Babel - a fucking complete and utter waste of fucking space and an embarassment to his own natural talent.
[/quote]

I suspect babel would have done better than jove had he started (he couldn't have done much worse) and I DEFINATELY think babel would have been able to beat richards at least ONCE in 90 mins something jove emphatically failed to do.

 

[StevieM]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41560.msg1160648#msg1160648 date=1282637454]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=41560.msg1160626#msg1160626 date=1282636148]
Babel - a fucking complete and utter waste of fucking space and an embarassment to his own natural talent.
[/quote]

I suspect babel would have done better than jove had he started (he couldn't have done much worse) and I DEFINATELY think babel would have been able to beat richards at least ONCE in 90 mins something jove emphatically failed to do.
[/quote]

How many fucking times to be have to see Babel come off the bench in the final 10 minutes; look slightly sharp; be told by someone (usually you) that he simply "must" start more games; only for his to be utterly insipid once he does get a chance.

Babel would not have beaten Richards once all night... but I'd be confident he'd have ran in to him and bounced off him many times.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41560.msg1160648#msg1160648 date=1282637454]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=41560.msg1160626#msg1160626 date=1282636148]
Babel - a fucking complete and utter waste of fucking space and an embarassment to his own natural talent.
[/quote]

I suspect babel would have done better than jove had he started (he couldn't have done much worse) and I DEFINATELY think babel would have been able to beat richards at least ONCE in 90 mins something jove emphatically failed to do.
[/quote]

Based on what Neil ? Past evidence ? He's fucking shite and the only place he tends to run is blind alley ways. I DEFINITELY think he's one of the biggest wastes of footballing talent I've ever come across. He has ability but he's lazy, disinterested, cowardly and fucking stupid. He's a fucking gobshite of a footballer and I'd wish he'd fuck off.

 

[Ossi]

Because it´s crazy to be logical supporting Liverpool anno 2010?

 

[refugee]

I agree with Farky and Sunny. I would also like to empathise that Babel is shit, although Doc Mac suggested we should restrict him to a role of impact sub and last night I would have been happier with any substitution.

 

[singlerider]

For what it's worth, I think Babel looks a little more interested under Roy.

Maybe he feels that if he can prove something, it might actually have an effect, I dunno - but to me he looks a little more up for it than usual.

Perhaps we should give him one last roll of the die - after all, it's hardly like we're blessed with a plethora of options, and he has pace and an eye for goal - two things we're sadly lacking in

 

[Woland]

We clearly don't play well with 11 men. We should start with 10 on Thursday and free up some space.

 

[refugee]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=41560.msg1160657#msg1160657 date=1282638208]
For what it's worth, I think Babel looks a little more interested under Roy.
[/quote]

What did he do that was different from normal? He had one of his trademark runs where he cut inside and then hit the ball towards the goal on the near post (and it benefited from an enormous deflection to put the shot on target), but he does one of those in every game that he comes off the bench, I can't remember anything else. He was dire in midweek, and rightfully subbed at half time (good goal though).

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=41560.msg1160657#msg1160657 date=1282638208]
For what it's worth, I think Babel looks a little more interested under Roy.

Maybe he feels that if he can prove something, it might actually have an effect, I dunno - but to me he looks a little more up for it than usual.

Perhaps we should give him one last roll of the die - after all, it's hardly like we're blessed with a plethora of options, and he has pace and an eye for goal - two things we're sadly lacking in
[/quote]

I'm done with him Dan mate. I really am at the end of my tether with so many things Liverpool, Babel included. And we're only 2 games into the season. Ordinarily, I'd think we'd have some capacity to be able to turn our state of affairs around. What's obvious is that we simply do not have any clout to do that anymore. We've got no money, despicable owners out for their own greed and a manager with an average record and an immense task ahead of him. Couple that with players who clearly do not have the ability or the sheer brass bollocks to even try and put things right and we're in an unenviable position.

Good luck to Hodgson - he has my full backing because the scale of the task ahead of him is immense. What worries me more is the long term future of our club and, with the increasing likelihood the Yanks could get further refinance, the fact we could be fucked for a generation or more.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=41560.msg1160534#msg1160534 date=1282619948]
I've never seen a board swing from on extreme to the next, game after game as much as SCM.

You'll always get a few kneejerkers but Christ this place takes the biscuit.

2 weeks ago Babel was a piece of shit, now he looks like the only goal threat with a bit of pace we have and should play.

1 week ago Jovanovic looked superb, now he's a slow ace piece of shit offering no width and no better than Riera.

Last week we looked decent and had something to build on, now we look like we need 10 million new players to even think about the top 4.

How do so many change their opinion on a match by match basis and by so much.

It makes the site lauaghable at times.

Or is just me that see's this?

We are 2 games into a 38 game season where the top teams will all drop points yet some are ready to throw in the towel already?

What next? If put 6 past West Brom are we suddenly world beaters again?


[/quote]
For what it's worth I think this is a very good post Dreamy.

 

[jexykrodic]

Fans of LFC become crazy when they see their team bossed and easily beaten by a team we usually do well against.

It's unusual for us to be beaten 3-0, think back, very few times do we suffer heavy defeats like this.

Coupled with dire finances, want away players, an outdated stadium and a hostile press is it any wonder that mood swings are rife?

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=41560.msg1160669#msg1160669 date=1282639024]
Fans of LFC become crazy when they see their team bossed and easily beaten by a team we usually do well against.

It's unusual for us to be beaten 3-0, think back, very few times do we suffer heavy defeats like this.

Coupled with dire finances, want away players, an outdated stadium and a hostile press is it any wonder that mood swings are rife?


[/quote]

Exactly. It's not just to the results - it's the constant dirge of negative news, performances and results we've been subjected to over the last few years. I posted this elsewhere last night - it kind of sums up how I feel:

Tonight was a bad night alright. Not our best performance by a long shot. Thing is, you always think to yourself "well it can't get any worse" - but I'm losing track of how many times I've said that over the last couple of seasons and - you know what ? It keeps on getting worse. Our off the field problems are getting compounded day by day and on the field there's no sign of recovery yet. I say yet because I think Hodgson should be given a chance. My heart says things WILL get better eventually but God knows how long that will be. My head keeps telling me that I know full well I'll wake up tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day and for the forseeable future to yet another Liverpool "bad news" day. Even the potential good news usually turns out bollocks. Take Joe Cole for example - we're all happy when he signs (and I'm not having a pop at Joe Cole here). What happens ? Gets sent off in his first league game, banned for 3 games and then misses a pin in the very next. Kenny Huang - whether he was real or not. Gave us all a little hope but soon dissappeared. Whether he was a chancer without the funding or whether he was the only realistic bidder - the outcome was no change in ownership. Something we're beyond desperate for.

Honestly, there seems no fucking end to it. It's like someones put a gypsy curse on the club. This isn't a kneejerk post based on a shitty result (well, partly maybe). It's a post based on yet another shitty performance on top of many shitty results last year and mixed in with a sprinkling of no change in sight and topped off with big dollop of twats for owners. I truly believe we're at such an important crossroads - new owners - we may have some hope. Same old gobshites - we're fucked and heading only one way.

 

[singlerider]

[quote author=refugee link=topic=41560.msg1160662#msg1160662 date=1282638594]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=41560.msg1160657#msg1160657 date=1282638208]
For what it's worth, I think Babel looks a little more interested under Roy.
[/quote]

What did he do that was different from normal? He had one of his trademark runs where he cut inside and then hit the ball towards the goal on the near post (and it benefited from an enormous deflection to put the shot on target), but he does one of those in every game that he comes off the bench, I can't remember anything else. He was dire in midweek, and rightfully subbed at half time (good goal though).

[/quote]

I think it's more of a body language thing than anything. That, and the fact that he's actually closed people down a couple of times.

I dunno, maybe I'm just clutching at straws

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=41560.msg1160539#msg1160539 date=1282621331]
I've had the same opinion for the last several months. Right after the signing of Cole a bunch of people thought I was being crazily negative. Now that nothing has happened in this transfer season to address our issues, Mascherano has indicated that he is going, and made Hodgson look like a tit in the process, and most importantly, people have seen us play, they are realizing that there are all the same problems as last year, and VERY little time to cobble together the deals to address them with 0 net spend.

Perhaps we'll do good work, perhaps it was Hodgson negotiating in the press, and he hasn't been caught by surprise, perhaps as you think, Babel will suddenly catch fire. But people are correct to be very worried, because is it so crazy to think that we basically know this set of players, what they can't do, and what they can't, after seeing most of them for years now?

Again, with much the same team, less a world class DM, we have much the same problems and then some. Let's assume that Hodgson will get more out of a team that underperformed last year. Getting more out of them doesn't equate to getting 4th neccesarily, not with Man City improving to the extent that they have.

It's been a god awful summer, and the only thing that has distracted people is the idea that we'd be sold, and Joe Cole, who people think is some game changing transfer for some reason I can't fathom.
[/quote]

I agree with a lot of this to be honest but how exactly has Mascher made Hodgson look like a tit?

If hes made anyone look like a tit its himself.