Poll When Magic returns...

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=ILD link=topic=39102.msg1062296#msg1062296 date=1267444775]
How is Barragain doing at Depor? Is he stil there? I remember being pleased we included a buy back option. Doesn't seem like we'll be exercising said option any time soon.


[/quote]

He's at Real Valladolid , moved there last summer


regards

 

[keniget]

[quote author=ILD link=topic=39102.msg1062296#msg1062296 date=1267444775]
How is Barragain doing at Depor? Is he stil there? I remember being pleased we included a buy back option. Doesn't seem like we'll be exercising said option any time soon.
[/quote]

Last I heard he was without a club due to contractual issues. Anyways, Barragan was ace in the reserves from what I can remember.

I don't agree with much of what Vlad has said here, particularly in regards to Skrtel and Agger. We may have broken our club record for them, but they still came pretty cheap when you consider what other clubs are paying for CBs.

Pepe - 20M+
Cavarlho - 20M+
Albiol - 20M+
Ramos - 17M
Chiggy - 20M+
Garay - 10M+

The only bargain has been Vidic and we were after him as well.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=39102.msg1062309#msg1062309 date=1267445920]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=39102.msg1062296#msg1062296 date=1267444775]
How is Barragain doing at Depor? Is he stil there? I remember being pleased we included a buy back option. Doesn't seem like we'll be exercising said option any time soon.
[/quote]

Last I heard he was without a club due to contractual issues. Anyways, Barragan was ace in the reserves from what I can remember.

I don't agree with much of what Vlad has said here, particularly in regards to Skrtel and Agger. We may have broken our club record for them, but they still came pretty cheap when you consider what other clubs are paying for CBs.

Pepe - 20M+
Cavarlho - 20M+
Albiol - 20M+
Ramos - 17M
Chiggy - 20M+
Garay - 10M+

The only bargain has been Vidic and we were after him as well.
[/quote]

Skrtel and Agger are decent defenders, and the market has changed quite a bit since we brought them, but in fairness the list you have there is hardly a like for like comparison.

I would not put too much store in my slightly tongue in cheek ratings, but the up shot of it is , there are some right fucking lemons in it.


regards

 

[ILD]

Skrtel, Agger and Arbeloa we're great pick ups. Skrtel and Agger could well go on to be our first choice pairing in a season or two for a combined 12 million.

I'm still hoping we sign Kjaer. KHL will have a field day if we do. Ha.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39102.msg1062313#msg1062313 date=1267446503]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=39102.msg1062309#msg1062309 date=1267445920]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=39102.msg1062296#msg1062296 date=1267444775]
How is Barragain doing at Depor? Is he stil there? I remember being pleased we included a buy back option. Doesn't seem like we'll be exercising said option any time soon.
[/quote]

Last I heard he was without a club due to contractual issues. Anyways, Barragan was ace in the reserves from what I can remember.

I don't agree with much of what Vlad has said here, particularly in regards to Skrtel and Agger. We may have broken our club record for them, but they still came pretty cheap when you consider what other clubs are paying for CBs.

Pepe - 20M+
Cavarlho - 20M+
Albiol - 20M+
Ramos - 17M
Chiggy - 20M+
Garay - 10M+

The only bargain has been Vidic and we were after him as well.
[/quote]

Skrtel and Agger are decent defenders, and the market has changed quite a bit since we brought them, but in fairness the list you have there is hardly a like for like comparison.
I would not put too much store in my slightly tongue in cheek ratings, but the up shot of it is , there are some right fucking lemons in it.


regards
[/quote]
I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make here - are you really suggesting that Agger and Skrtel can't match the ones in that list (apart from Carvalho and Ramos)? If so then I must admit I reckon you are way of the mark.

In terms of sheer potential Agger's upthere with the very best. And Skrtel on recent form is showing very promising signs as well.

If Agger were to be offloaded come Summer he'd defintely leave for another major club like ourselves and would easily fetch a fee in the region of £15-20M.

Pepe for one wouldn't. Not even close.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

Agger is 26 this year, so as far as potential goes he is leaving it a bit late.
I like Agger, but to suggest he is close to the £20m bracket is wrong. I don't mind Skrtel either, but he is pretty limited, and to be honest even among Liverpool fans people are pretty split on how good they are, and a many would rather see a thirty six year old Finn still be here taking a place.


regards

PS did I mention that Agger is from the same Lladro collection as Aurellio, one reason why he ain't in the £20m bracket

 

[Mamma Mia]

I have a lot of respect for your football opinions Vlad. Usually.

Have you been drinking?

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=39102.msg1062445#msg1062445 date=1267462534]
I have a lot of respect for your football opinions Vlad. Usually.

Have you been drinking?
[/quote]

No old chap, which bits in particular bother you?


regards

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39102.msg1062187#msg1062187 date=1267433619]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39102.msg1061998#msg1061998 date=1267394828]
I believe we should buy two new fullbacks and push Johnson up to RW.

RB - Cheapish Arbeloa/Finnan MKII; solid, consistent, injury free, etc.
LB - Strong, quick, can beat a man, compliment Riera, etc.

Rafa has shown he can buy good defenders on the cheap (admittedly not many fullbacks!) but I hope he can find two.

We've been crying out for width and creativity on our attacking flanks for years. Now Johnson is here, I think it would be a crime not to use him. With a limited budget, too, fullbacks generally come cheaper than attacking midfielders, so it makes sense with our budget to concentrate on these positions.

(Ha, should of read the thread first. More appropriate reply coming soon!)
[/quote]

Who were you thinking of?

regards
[/quote]

Agger, Skrtel, Arbeloa, Aurelio, Spartan have all proved good value for money.

Saying "record" defensive signing when that figure is only £6M is ridiculous, especially when that entire backline cost less than one defender Chelsea and United have purchased.

I do have faith in Rafa being able to pick up defensively minded players.

 

[MaBigTip]

I'm a little surprised (and slightly honored :-[) that I'm the only one to agree with the Bunny.

Right now, assuming Agger is still gonna be available I would be very happy to see:

GJ Sotiris Agger Carra

as a back line. Better in the air, attacking intent and solidity balanced with it; Set piece threat! Although I'd assume to play Carra there you would need Riera(left foot) or Babel(pace for some of his hoofs) in front of him; and those two have been used to build Rafa's dog house

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39102.msg1062351#msg1062351 date=1267449526]
Agger is 26 this year, so as far as potential goes he is leaving it a bit late.
I like Agger, but to suggest he is close to the £20m bracket is wrong. I don't mind Skrtel either, but he is pretty limited, and to be honest even among Liverpool fans people are pretty split on how good they are, and a many would rather see a thirty six year old Finn still be here taking a place.


regards

PS did I mention that Agger is from the same Lladro collection as Aurellio, one reason why he ain't in the £20m bracket
[/quote]

Agger's just turned 25-years-old Vlad and as central defenders normally mature and play their best at around 30+ he's somewhat still in the 'talent' bracket.

The Big Finn as you mention yourself first came here as a 26-year-old and where by no means the finished article at that point.

A player of Aggers caliber would demand a transfer in the region of £15-20M should he be sold, I'm absolute certain.

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=the_khl link=topic=39102.msg1062475#msg1062475 date=1267468499]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39102.msg1062351#msg1062351 date=1267449526]
Agger is 26 this year, so as far as potential goes he is leaving it a bit late.
I like Agger, but to suggest he is close to the £20m bracket is wrong. I don't mind Skrtel either, but he is pretty limited, and to be honest even among Liverpool fans people are pretty split on how good they are, and a many would rather see a thirty six year old Finn still be here taking a place.


regards

PS did I mention that Agger is from the same Lladro collection as Aurellio, one reason why he ain't in the £20m bracket
[/quote]

Agger's just turned 25-years-old Vlad and as central defenders normally mature and play their best at around 30+ he's somewhat still in the 'talent' bracket.

The Big Finn as you mention yourself first came here as a 26-year-old and where by no means the finished article at that point.

A player of Aggers caliber would demand a transfer in the region of £15-20M should he be sold, I'm absolute certain.
[/quote]

What? Sami was fucking brilliant from day one at Liverpool. He totally transformed us (with some help from Henchoz) from a team that leaked goals into the toughest, meanest defence in the league. He was absolutely the finished (Finnished) article at 26.

I like Agger, but defensively he's not at that level and almost certainly never will be.

 

[manwithnoname]

Agreed.

The fact we got Sami for 2.6m is kind of irrelevant, because he is one of the greatest Liverpool defenders of all time, and had the rest of the football world known what Houllier and his scouts knew (or maybe they got lucky), Hyypia's value at 26 would have been 20m

Or 30m if Chelsea, United or Man Shitty were buying

We are very fortunate to have had him for so long, and yes, I wish he was still here

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39102.msg1061976#msg1061976 date=1267394236]
I like Johnson a lot, but you can't deny the fact we've been much more defensively solid since Carra moved to RB. I think this is simply because a four-man defence with two attacking full-backs is naturally unbalanced. Barca can get away with it, but they play with a different system (and have better footballers).

Personally, I think we need one attacking full-back (Magic) and one ultra-solid full-back (Carra, given the dearth of options) so my suggested solution is that we play Carra at LB. You might remember he was a very good LB for several seasons - I always thought he looked more comfortable there, in fact, than at RB. Our best defence in the past 20 years was the one with Carra at LB and Babbel at RB. Obviously this isn't a long-term solution, but our options at LB are really crap and I can't think of a better solution at the moment.

Can anyone else?
[/quote]

I'm with you. Johnson at RM, Carra or Kelly at RB and Kuyt up front with Torres. Or Kuyt on bench and someone else up front with Torres.

 

[Mamma Mia]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39102.msg1062455#msg1062455 date=1267463594]
[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=39102.msg1062445#msg1062445 date=1267462534]
I have a lot of respect for your football opinions Vlad. Usually.

Have you been drinking?
[/quote]

No old chap, which bits in particular bother you?


regards
[/quote]

The Arbeloa ones mostly.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=39102.msg1062002#msg1062002 date=1267395067]
I would play Johnson on the right wing in a 4-4-2.

Carra - Skrtel - Agger - Insua

Johnson - Gerrard - Mascherano - LW

----- Kuyt ---- Torres


On the left my preference would probably be for Riera ahead of Yossi. But I don't really have any strong feelings on it.

It gets most of our weaker players out of the side, puts our two best midielders in the middle, defensive players in defensive positions, attacking players in attacking positions. It's genius really, at least you'd think so given the team selections this season.

It's so good we don't even need a keeper.
[/quote

We both said exactly this last week. God only knows how Rafa doesn't see it. At the very least its a pretty good looking Plan B to one up front.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=the_khl link=topic=39102.msg1062475#msg1062475 date=1267468499]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39102.msg1062351#msg1062351 date=1267449526]
Agger is 26 this year, so as far as potential goes he is leaving it a bit late.
I like Agger, but to suggest he is close to the £20m bracket is wrong. I don't mind Skrtel either, but he is pretty limited, and to be honest even among Liverpool fans people are pretty split on how good they are, and a many would rather see a thirty six year old Finn still be here taking a place.


regards

PS did I mention that Agger is from the same Lladro collection as Aurellio, one reason why he ain't in the £20m bracket
[/quote]

Agger's just turned 25-years-old Vlad and as central defenders normally mature and play their best at around 30+ he's somewhat still in the 'talent' bracket.

The Big Finn as you mention yourself first came here as a 26-year-old and where by no means the finished article at that point.

A player of Aggers caliber would demand a transfer in the region of £15-20M should he be sold, I'm absolute certain.
[/quote]

Whoahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, I like a good chuckle KHL. As I said he is a decent defender, and I rate him higher than Skrtel , but the way you big-him-up all the time is fucking daft.

To say a CB reaches their peak at 30 is wildly off the mark too, they should have been at their peak for two years by then, at that point they will start losing their pace, some might get another four years at a decent level, the exceptions like Sami, will get longer.
A made of glass decent defender like Agger is in the £12m-£13m mark, as I said he has not even proved himself with us consistently yet.

Mo. Arbeloa , like Agger, is a decent player, an average full back, he is not a spanking good defender, nor is he fantastic at getting forward, we might have got a little more than we paid for, but the way some are bulling him up is laughable. I don't remember everyone wailing pitilessly when he went.
We paid sensible money,£2,500,000 for him and sold him for a million pounds more in a highly inflated market.

Trust me on all this

regards

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39102.msg1062497#msg1062497 date=1267472413]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=39102.msg1062475#msg1062475 date=1267468499]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39102.msg1062351#msg1062351 date=1267449526]
Agger is 26 this year, so as far as potential goes he is leaving it a bit late.
I like Agger, but to suggest he is close to the £20m bracket is wrong. I don't mind Skrtel either, but he is pretty limited, and to be honest even among Liverpool fans people are pretty split on how good they are, and a many would rather see a thirty six year old Finn still be here taking a place.


regards

PS did I mention that Agger is from the same Lladro collection as Aurellio, one reason why he ain't in the £20m bracket
[/quote]

Agger's just turned 25-years-old Vlad and as central defenders normally mature and play their best at around 30+ he's somewhat still in the 'talent' bracket.

The Big Finn as you mention yourself first came here as a 26-year-old and where by no means the finished article at that point.

A player of Aggers caliber would demand a transfer in the region of £15-20M should he be sold, I'm absolute certain.
[/quote]

Whoahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, I like a good chuckle KHL. As I said he is a decent defender, and I rate him higher than Skrtel , but the way you big-him-up all the time is fucking daft.

To say a CB reaches their peak at 30 is wildly off the mark too, they should have been at their peak for two years by then, at that point they will start losing their pace, some might get another four years at a decent level, the exceptions like Sami, will get longer.
A made of glass decent defender like Agger is in the £12m-£13m mark, as I said he has not even proved himself with us consistently yet.

Mo. Arbeloa , like Agger, is a decent player, an average full back, he is not a spanking good defender, nor is he fantastic at getting forward, we might have got a little more than we paid for, but the way some are bulling him up is laughable. I don't remember everyone wailing pitilessly when he went.
We paid sensible money,£2,500,000 for him and sold him for a million pounds more in a highly inflated market.

Trust me on all this

regards
[/quote]

If Agger were a car, he'd be a TVR. Great to watch, looks fantastic, spends too much time on the side of the road.

 

[keniget]

I've made a habit of saying Riera is a pretty average player, which some probably find a little harsh and I suspect it's the same in this case with Arbeloa. It's quite a subjective term and generally depends on how favourably the individual in question thinks the player compares with his peers.

I'd pitch Arbeloa at above average and feel he was underrated by a lot of supporters. He was solid, versatile, technically capable, rarely injured and I wouldn't say fares too badly when compared to someone like Sagna who has actually turned out to be pretty 'average' himself.

We picked up him for a real bargain fee and sold him on for a profit despite the fact that a) he wanted to leave, b) it was his boyhood club calling and c) he was in the last year of his contract. Inflated market or not, it kind of underlines the fact that he was seen as a good player for us.

 

[manwithnoname]

While I don't think I ever really loved Arbeloa much, I seem to recall going *right* off him last season after a few gaffes, and I said before he left we should be getting in a new RB, so was well pleased with Magic

That said, he was a far better RB than Insewer is a LB.

Actually, he's a better LB than Insewer too

 

[TheBunnyman]

Arbeloa was a good full-back and a bargain signing. I'm amazed that anyone would argue against that really. Not as good as Finnan or Babbel, perhaps, but if he hadn't wanted to leave I would much rather have kept him than pocketed the £3m that Madrid gave us for him. He'd have played 30-odd games already this season, and (like Brendan) I'd have him ahead of Insua on the left as well.

 

[Dreambeliever]

Bottom line GJ should be at RB or Rafa should not be at the club.

If you spunk 18m on a f*cking right back you better play him there or you should be get the boot.

He has spent the guts of 60m on 3 players over the last 2 summers 1 of which, we sold, 1 can barely make the bench and now the third is being overlooked for a CB.

Great f*cking transfers Rafa.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

But he does play him at right back

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=39102.msg1062539#msg1062539 date=1267478685]
Bottom line GJ should be at RB or Rafa should not be at the club.

If you spunk 18m on a f*cking right back you better play him there or you should be get the boot.

He has spent the guts of 60m on 3 players over the last 2 summers 1 of which, we sold, 1 can barely make the bench and now the third is being overlooked for a CB.

Great f*cking transfers Rafa.


[/quote]

Hahahaha

 

[manwithnoname]

Dreamy, you do realise that Magic is injured and thus unable to play at RB, or anywhere else?

Just checking

 

[ILD]

Presume he meant that Rafa better play him there once fit. Some have suggested/implied that Rafa might stick with Carragher at RB at the expense of our 17 million new signing.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39102.msg1062482#msg1062482 date=1267471163]
Agreed.

The fact we got Sami for 2.6m is kind of irrelevant, because he is one of the greatest Liverpool defenders of all time, and had the rest of the football world known what Houllier and his scouts knew (or maybe they got lucky), Hyypia's value at 26 would have been 20m

[/quote]

He wasn't even the player they went to watch at Willem II that day, that's how lucky they got.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Hyypia was on trial at oldham before us, who decided not to pursue him.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39102.msg1062545#msg1062545 date=1267479241]
Dreamy, you do realise that Magic is injured and thus unable to play at RB, or anywhere else?

Just checking
[/quote]

Ha ha I mean when he is fit. It seems now that many advocating not playing him at right back as he is a liablity

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=39102.msg1062649#msg1062649 date=1267488355]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=39102.msg1062545#msg1062545 date=1267479241]
Dreamy, you do realise that Magic is injured and thus unable to play at RB, or anywhere else?

Just checking
[/quote]

Ha ha I mean when he is fit. It seems now that many advocating not playing him at right back as he is a liablity
[/quote]

I don't think he's a liability as a RB, far from it. I believe his defensive lapses are exaggerated. But I think he should be tried at RW, firstly because he can be one of the most devastating players in the Premier League and I'd like to see what he can do there; secondly, because it pushes Dirk into the striking positions where I think he's best, and thirdly because we can hopefully pick up a solid RB fairly cheaply - or even persist with Carragher there and blood in Kelly.