I think i wanted him out after Wigan game.
When did Rafa lose you/ lose 'it'?
- Thread starter doctor_mac
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Rafa lost me when we played Manchester City at Eastlands this season.
Here we went into a crunch game with both teams vying for top 4 position.
And what happened?
A gutless defensive approach which ended in a boring 0-0.
FFS we are LFC, us fans talk about our history and traditions - we are the big boys on the scene - and we show up to Eastlands and play cautiously? We should have rocked up and attacked them from the start, show them who's boss.
Rafa goes on about player mentality, but fact is it's his defensive mentality which is costing us.
Here we went into a crunch game with both teams vying for top 4 position.
And what happened?
A gutless defensive approach which ended in a boring 0-0.
FFS we are LFC, us fans talk about our history and traditions - we are the big boys on the scene - and we show up to Eastlands and play cautiously? We should have rocked up and attacked them from the start, show them who's boss.
Rafa goes on about player mentality, but fact is it's his defensive mentality which is costing us.
H&G are the real problem, and even if Rafa is sacked, whoever comes in will suffer too...
I still support Rafa... He needs to change some of his ideas, but he is still the man to
lead us...
I still support Rafa... He needs to change some of his ideas, but he is still the man to
lead us...
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=40105.msg1099802#msg1099802 date=1273096023]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40105.msg1099796#msg1099796 date=1273095083]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40105.msg1099788#msg1099788 date=1273094546]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=40105.msg1099782#msg1099782 date=1273094336]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40105.msg1099779#msg1099779 date=1273094149]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=40105.msg1099776#msg1099776 date=1273093886]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40105.msg1099765#msg1099765 date=1273093531]
I would have agreed with everyones arguement but for ast season where we challenged for the league AND played brilliant football.
you take last season into account, rafa knew how to challenge, how to get the best out of the squad out on their feet, how to make them play good football. its just a pity it went tits up this season but the fact the yanks held back money from his saes didn't exactly help.
[/quote]
I agree that Rafa deserves a lot of credit for last season, but he lost points on games where we all looked at the teamsheet and went whathefuck?
His stubborness and inability to change many games where it was clear we needed something different cost us crucial points that could have won the league. That said, he did do a great job. Unfortunately, his personal relations withplayers has caused departures that have resulted in us being much weaker in certain areas.
We're now further away from winning the league than we were when he arrived. That's the measure by which he must now be judged.
[/quote]
he is also being given less money than he arrived as well.
manu, chelsea, arsenal and more recently spurs and man city all have higher wage bills than we do. we want a 5 star meal at the savoy but only want to spend a fiver on it.
[/quote]
what a shit fucking analogy
We want Champions league qualification for CL spending. Simples
[/quote]
how is it a shit analogy when man city and spurs have a higher wage bill? man city have outspent us in the past two seasons and will do so again. you bring up arsenal and say they are spending less than anyone but even they have a higher wage bill than we do.
[/quote]I wish you'd change the fucking record.
If a manager. Any manager. Cannot beat another team, UNLESS he outspends them. He isn't a very good manager.
You keep using it as an excuse for Rafas failings, when all you're doing is evidencing that he will only be a good manager if he's allowed to outspend the opposition.
[/quote]
To be fair Oncy, the top 5 teams are usually the ones that have the largest net spend and wage bill. No one is expecting Fulham (however good Hodgson is supposed to be) to break into the top 5 any time soon simply because they haven't the financial clout. Similarly Moyes is obviously an excellent manager, but it'd be a major surprise should he finish 4th on a regular basis.
It's not the whole picture by any means, but Neil's point that it'll be foolish to expect Rafa to continue to provide a top four finish with no net spend (whilst our immediate rivals for the 4th spot spend aggressively), is a salient one.
[/quote]
Buddha essentially the way I read that argument is that Rafa is an average manager and we can't expect to challenge while he's here. Oncy is absolutely spot on in his post above. So why keep him ?
If on average it's easier to win over the course of a season with a higher wage bill then obviously the clubs that outperform that are the better run ones, and there are clubs that do it every season. I'll post up the table of average wage spends and league finishes later. Two of the worst run clubs are Newcastle and West Ham.
If we can't be expected to outperform a team spending a few million more per year than us on wages then Benitez isn't good enough. I'm absolutely certain that a wage bill of 100m is enough to win the league and that's around where we are with spending.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=40105.msg1099796#msg1099796 date=1273095083]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40105.msg1099788#msg1099788 date=1273094546]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=40105.msg1099782#msg1099782 date=1273094336]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40105.msg1099779#msg1099779 date=1273094149]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=40105.msg1099776#msg1099776 date=1273093886]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40105.msg1099765#msg1099765 date=1273093531]
I would have agreed with everyones arguement but for ast season where we challenged for the league AND played brilliant football.
you take last season into account, rafa knew how to challenge, how to get the best out of the squad out on their feet, how to make them play good football. its just a pity it went tits up this season but the fact the yanks held back money from his saes didn't exactly help.
[/quote]
I agree that Rafa deserves a lot of credit for last season, but he lost points on games where we all looked at the teamsheet and went whathefuck?
His stubborness and inability to change many games where it was clear we needed something different cost us crucial points that could have won the league. That said, he did do a great job. Unfortunately, his personal relations withplayers has caused departures that have resulted in us being much weaker in certain areas.
We're now further away from winning the league than we were when he arrived. That's the measure by which he must now be judged.
[/quote]
he is also being given less money than he arrived as well.
manu, chelsea, arsenal and more recently spurs and man city all have higher wage bills than we do. we want a 5 star meal at the savoy but only want to spend a fiver on it.
[/quote]
what a shit fucking analogy
We want Champions league qualification for CL spending. Simples
[/quote]
how is it a shit analogy when man city and spurs have a higher wage bill? man city have outspent us in the past two seasons and will do so again. you bring up arsenal and say they are spending less than anyone but even they have a higher wage bill than we do.
[/quote]I wish you'd change the fucking record.
If a manager. Any manager. Cannot beat another team, UNLESS he outspends them. He isn't a very good manager.
You keep using it as an excuse for Rafas failings, when all you're doing is evidencing that he will only be a good manager if he's allowed to outspend the opposition.
[/quote]
To be fair Oncy, the top 5 teams are usually the ones that have the largest net spend and wage bill. No one is expecting Fulham (however good Hodgson is supposed to be) to break into the top 5 any time soon simply because they haven't the financial clout. Similarly Moyes is obviously an excellent manager, but it'd be a major surprise should he finish 4th on a regular basis.
It's not the whole picture by any means, but Neil's point that it'll be foolish to expect Rafa to continue to provide a top four finish with no net spend (whilst our immediate rivals for the 4th spot spend aggressively), is a salient one.
[/quote]
Buddha essentially the way I read that argument is that Rafa is an average manager and we can't expect to challenge while he's here. Oncy is absolutely spot on in his post above. So why keep him ?
If on average it's easier to win over the course of a season with a higher wage bill then obviously the clubs that outperform that are the better run ones, and there are clubs that do it every season. I'll post up the table of average wage spends and league finishes later. Two of the worst run clubs are Newcastle and West Ham.
If we can't be expected to outperform a team spending a few million more per year than us on wages then Benitez isn't good enough. I'm absolutely certain that a wage bill of 100m is enough to win the league and that's around where we are with spending.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=40105.msg1099836#msg1099836 date=1273102246]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40105.msg1099774#msg1099774 date=1273093724]
[quote author=Bradley link=topic=40105.msg1099766#msg1099766 date=1273093550]
I've been unsure for a few seasons but still gave him his dues last season when he nearly pulled off winning the league.
But his dealings with Alonso pissed me off, trying to sell him, then trying desperately to keep him the next season, followed by not playing Aqua when he got fit.
[/quote]
alonso has to take 'some' of the blame with rafa trying to shift him out.
[/quote]
You're mental - Xabi did exactly the right thing, did exactly what every employee who gets shafted by their employer dreams of doing and I imagine that he only wishes he could have come out and said more about it. The only part of it I am upset about is that I just wish, somehow, Xabi could have put aside his detesting of Rafa and looked to the fans. Would have been excruciatingly hard given he had to put up with Rafa 6 days a week and find the fans only once in 7 days but I sorely wish he could have found a way.
As for Rafa; it's been a strange, almost surreal, reign. Despite so many here finding it much easier to crucify Owen I was disgusted by Rafa's blatant effort to get rid from the very begining - the fact he had Morientes lined up from the start as the replacement simply compounded the disbelief since every man and his dog knew Morientes would never make it happen in this league. The CL run, that amazing night in Istanbul and ironically - given future transpirings - the form of Alonso had me overlooking my objections.
I was sickened by our form in the 05/06 season and I said multiple times during that season our manager just doesn't seem to learn; he refuses to go out and win games for fear that he could lose them. The final against West Ham didn't cover it but in Steven Gerrard he had a player who could distract us - or at least me - from the reality. That performance tempered my distrust, the last 4 months - where we were the form team of the competition - had me trying to believe that he had learned the lessons of how to play. He even went 3 at the back on a couple of occasions and I started to think "He's truly worked it out".
The season of 06/07 I decided Rafa wasn't going to win the league. It's remembered as our CL runner up in Athens but domestically it was a nightmare with every promising performance destroyed by the next outing. I remember having plenty of discussions with GrumpMonkey and others that season of Rafa threatening to deliver but always proving a false dawn and another groundless hope. I vowed that I wouldn't be fooled by yet another promising run.
07/08 started like we were unstoppable; top of the league and plenty of posters couldn't see how anyone could stop us. Then we started to grind out some matches, try to strangle the opposition and we slipped alarmingly off the pace. Plenty of posters declared that they were done with believing in Rafa - we performed when there was nothing to play for but became exceptionally negative when the opportunity was there. Once again we finished very strongly though were never a hope of challenging the top 3. I was convinced he couldn't do it in England, congratulated myself on not "falling" for yet another promise and the only thing that stopped me wanting rid was I couldn't see a better, realistic alternative.
2008/09 - so many of the Rafa devotees rest their souls on this season but the reality is it was no different to the previous 3 seasons. We were given every opportunity by the mancs and Chelsea from October to January but we played horrible football and let them stay with us. Then the mancs went ahead and it looked like the chance was gone when, exactly as in previous seasons, we started performing. It was a glorious run and I struggled mightily to stick to my vow but found myself wondering "what if"? "What if" he's actually, somehow, worked it out and makes this happen. But we were always behind from then on and only produced our best at the time we had basically said the chance was gone. For some it was proof that Rafa was the promised one but for me it just confirmed his previous seasons were the norm and he could not take us to the summit.
Outstanding in cup competitions and a genius in Europe but never the manager of a title holder in England. It's been a conviction borne of a thousand cuts but, bit by bit during 05/06, 06/07 and 07/08 he convinced me he was not the man and that like every Liverpool supporter who wants the title I should be looking elsewhere.
[/quote]
Pretty much sums it up for me, but i dont agree with the owen thing. Owen is a cunt
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=40105.msg1099774#msg1099774 date=1273093724]
[quote author=Bradley link=topic=40105.msg1099766#msg1099766 date=1273093550]
I've been unsure for a few seasons but still gave him his dues last season when he nearly pulled off winning the league.
But his dealings with Alonso pissed me off, trying to sell him, then trying desperately to keep him the next season, followed by not playing Aqua when he got fit.
[/quote]
alonso has to take 'some' of the blame with rafa trying to shift him out.
[/quote]
You're mental - Xabi did exactly the right thing, did exactly what every employee who gets shafted by their employer dreams of doing and I imagine that he only wishes he could have come out and said more about it. The only part of it I am upset about is that I just wish, somehow, Xabi could have put aside his detesting of Rafa and looked to the fans. Would have been excruciatingly hard given he had to put up with Rafa 6 days a week and find the fans only once in 7 days but I sorely wish he could have found a way.
As for Rafa; it's been a strange, almost surreal, reign. Despite so many here finding it much easier to crucify Owen I was disgusted by Rafa's blatant effort to get rid from the very begining - the fact he had Morientes lined up from the start as the replacement simply compounded the disbelief since every man and his dog knew Morientes would never make it happen in this league. The CL run, that amazing night in Istanbul and ironically - given future transpirings - the form of Alonso had me overlooking my objections.
I was sickened by our form in the 05/06 season and I said multiple times during that season our manager just doesn't seem to learn; he refuses to go out and win games for fear that he could lose them. The final against West Ham didn't cover it but in Steven Gerrard he had a player who could distract us - or at least me - from the reality. That performance tempered my distrust, the last 4 months - where we were the form team of the competition - had me trying to believe that he had learned the lessons of how to play. He even went 3 at the back on a couple of occasions and I started to think "He's truly worked it out".
The season of 06/07 I decided Rafa wasn't going to win the league. It's remembered as our CL runner up in Athens but domestically it was a nightmare with every promising performance destroyed by the next outing. I remember having plenty of discussions with GrumpMonkey and others that season of Rafa threatening to deliver but always proving a false dawn and another groundless hope. I vowed that I wouldn't be fooled by yet another promising run.
07/08 started like we were unstoppable; top of the league and plenty of posters couldn't see how anyone could stop us. Then we started to grind out some matches, try to strangle the opposition and we slipped alarmingly off the pace. Plenty of posters declared that they were done with believing in Rafa - we performed when there was nothing to play for but became exceptionally negative when the opportunity was there. Once again we finished very strongly though were never a hope of challenging the top 3. I was convinced he couldn't do it in England, congratulated myself on not "falling" for yet another promise and the only thing that stopped me wanting rid was I couldn't see a better, realistic alternative.
2008/09 - so many of the Rafa devotees rest their souls on this season but the reality is it was no different to the previous 3 seasons. We were given every opportunity by the mancs and Chelsea from October to January but we played horrible football and let them stay with us. Then the mancs went ahead and it looked like the chance was gone when, exactly as in previous seasons, we started performing. It was a glorious run and I struggled mightily to stick to my vow but found myself wondering "what if"? "What if" he's actually, somehow, worked it out and makes this happen. But we were always behind from then on and only produced our best at the time we had basically said the chance was gone. For some it was proof that Rafa was the promised one but for me it just confirmed his previous seasons were the norm and he could not take us to the summit.
Outstanding in cup competitions and a genius in Europe but never the manager of a title holder in England. It's been a conviction borne of a thousand cuts but, bit by bit during 05/06, 06/07 and 07/08 he convinced me he was not the man and that like every Liverpool supporter who wants the title I should be looking elsewhere.
[/quote]
Pretty much sums it up for me, but i dont agree with the owen thing. Owen is a cunt
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=40105.msg1099836#msg1099836 date=1273102246]
the fact he had Morientes lined up from the start as the replacement simply compounded the disbelief since every man and his dog knew Morientes would never make it happen in this league.[/quote]
that's not true, guillem balague called it, I and many others called it but it wasn't universal, just as many people thought it would be a success.
the fact he had Morientes lined up from the start as the replacement simply compounded the disbelief since every man and his dog knew Morientes would never make it happen in this league.[/quote]
that's not true, guillem balague called it, I and many others called it but it wasn't universal, just as many people thought it would be a success.
the reason I say alonso has to take some of the blame is because his form did for an extented period of time, dipped by his standards admittedly but dipped none the less.
alonso was definately on of my favorite players (probably more so than anita).
a) he took the ball of the defenders toes and distributed it
you've seen the result of the defenders trying to distribute the ball themselves this season
b) he found passes early and often,
whilst he himself didn't get many assists he allowed others to hurt teams high up the pitch. I don't think its a coinicedence gerrard has struggled this season, you can't hurt teams if you don't have the ball.
c) he slowed the pace of the game down when the shit hit the fan
we have badly struggled away from home because we couldn't quiet the crowd and take the momentum away from the home team
I absolutely loved him and even I didn't have a problem when rafa wanted to move him on two season ago, hindsight is a wonderful but it didn't look like alonso was goino recapture his best form, but as we've seen this season even a below par is better than most midfielders. dare I even say alonso was the most important person in the team because we've pretty much self destructed without him.
alonso was definately on of my favorite players (probably more so than anita).
a) he took the ball of the defenders toes and distributed it
you've seen the result of the defenders trying to distribute the ball themselves this season
b) he found passes early and often,
whilst he himself didn't get many assists he allowed others to hurt teams high up the pitch. I don't think its a coinicedence gerrard has struggled this season, you can't hurt teams if you don't have the ball.
c) he slowed the pace of the game down when the shit hit the fan
we have badly struggled away from home because we couldn't quiet the crowd and take the momentum away from the home team
I absolutely loved him and even I didn't have a problem when rafa wanted to move him on two season ago, hindsight is a wonderful but it didn't look like alonso was goino recapture his best form, but as we've seen this season even a below par is better than most midfielders. dare I even say alonso was the most important person in the team because we've pretty much self destructed without him.
Everything was acceptable until the portsmouth game. We brought on jay spearing when chasing the game, no other striker, no other decent option due to rafa stubborness, i felt disgusted and refused to watch another second.
I could get over alonso as i thought aqua would be a success, i thought we might fluke gettign away with torres as n'gog isn't that bad, kuyt chips in as do others, so i thought the slack would be picked up. I just didn't forsee a catastrophic lack of form
I could get over alonso as i thought aqua would be a success, i thought we might fluke gettign away with torres as n'gog isn't that bad, kuyt chips in as do others, so i thought the slack would be picked up. I just didn't forsee a catastrophic lack of form
I have wanted rid of him since the end of 2006/2007 season. The way we performed that year in the league left me with no doubts he would be unsuccessful in the pursuit of a league title. His lack of ideas beyond 'Plan A' and robotic predictable substitutions since then have done nothing to change my mind. The last 4 transfer windows have actually made me hate him, which I am sad about as he gave me the best night of my life ever in 2005.
First Season, I thought we had the man.
Second Season there were a few questions.
Third Season I knew there were problems ahead, same mistakes being made same sqaure pegs in round holes nailing his colours to the mast of players who were not that good......so it was then whatever year that was.
regards
Second Season there were a few questions.
Third Season I knew there were problems ahead, same mistakes being made same sqaure pegs in round holes nailing his colours to the mast of players who were not that good......so it was then whatever year that was.
regards
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=40105.msg1100005#msg1100005 date=1273133176]
[quote author=themn link=topic=40105.msg1099752#msg1099752 date=1273093185]
Brum.
Though with Fernando's knee injury thing he kinda was right to pull him off.
Kinda.
[/quote]
But he played 85 mins against Benfica 4 days later luv?
[/quote]
Which is what I was hinting at.
Benfica was his last game (THIS SEASON) I believe.
[quote author=themn link=topic=40105.msg1099752#msg1099752 date=1273093185]
Brum.
Though with Fernando's knee injury thing he kinda was right to pull him off.
Kinda.
[/quote]
But he played 85 mins against Benfica 4 days later luv?
[/quote]
Which is what I was hinting at.
Benfica was his last game (THIS SEASON) I believe.
[quote author=themn link=topic=40105.msg1100045#msg1100045 date=1273137227]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=40105.msg1100005#msg1100005 date=1273133176]
[quote author=themn link=topic=40105.msg1099752#msg1099752 date=1273093185]
Brum.
Though with Fernando's knee injury thing he kinda was right to pull him off.
Kinda.
[/quote]
But he played 85 mins against Benfica 4 days later luv?
[/quote]
Which is what I was hinting at.
Benfica was his last game (THIS SEASON) I believe.
[/quote]
DANG!
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=40105.msg1100005#msg1100005 date=1273133176]
[quote author=themn link=topic=40105.msg1099752#msg1099752 date=1273093185]
Brum.
Though with Fernando's knee injury thing he kinda was right to pull him off.
Kinda.
[/quote]
But he played 85 mins against Benfica 4 days later luv?
[/quote]
Which is what I was hinting at.
Benfica was his last game (THIS SEASON) I believe.
[/quote]
DANG!
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=40105.msg1100032#msg1100032 date=1273136337]
I have wanted rid of him since the end of 2006/2007 season. The way we performed that year in the league left me with no doubts he would be unsuccessful in the pursuit of a league title. His lack of ideas beyond 'Plan A' and robotic predictable substitutions since then have done nothing to change my mind. The last 4 transfer windows have actually made me hate him, which I am sad about as he gave me the best night of my life ever in 2005.
[/quote]I know how you feel mate. I never particularly warmed to him to be honest. Even after Istanbul and The FA cup win I still didn't personally like him all that much. I just didn't like his manner or his attitude. And certainly not his robotic u emotional approach to football and in particular my club which I'm so emotional about.
The tracksuit incident was when I realised I hated him. Playing games with MY club and dragging it's name through the mud in the press. It's got a lot worse since then. I honestly can't understand how any Liverpool fan doesn't want him gone.
I have wanted rid of him since the end of 2006/2007 season. The way we performed that year in the league left me with no doubts he would be unsuccessful in the pursuit of a league title. His lack of ideas beyond 'Plan A' and robotic predictable substitutions since then have done nothing to change my mind. The last 4 transfer windows have actually made me hate him, which I am sad about as he gave me the best night of my life ever in 2005.
[/quote]I know how you feel mate. I never particularly warmed to him to be honest. Even after Istanbul and The FA cup win I still didn't personally like him all that much. I just didn't like his manner or his attitude. And certainly not his robotic u emotional approach to football and in particular my club which I'm so emotional about.
The tracksuit incident was when I realised I hated him. Playing games with MY club and dragging it's name through the mud in the press. It's got a lot worse since then. I honestly can't understand how any Liverpool fan doesn't want him gone.
The day Floyd Mayweather beat Ricky Hatton, I went to Bolton to watch the Amir Khan fight and had to listen to the game on the radio on the way up, we we're playing Reading away, we went 3-1 down, at seventy minutes Rafa took Torres and Gerrard off. Really, I was done with him then, I tried to bury it and get behind him. But I couldn't bury it after those back to back draws against Everton and Wigan last February when we played trying defend 1-0 leads.
I really want him gone.
I really want him gone.
And Amir got thumped in a matter of seconds. Not a good day for you LadyRed.
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=40105.msg1100211#msg1100211 date=1273147460]
And Amir got thumped in a matter of seconds. Not a good day for you LadyRed.
[/quote]
Nah he won that one, but he won it in like 80 seconds or something, after a four hour drive to Bolton, I wasn't amused. But it did mean I made it home in time for the Mayweather fight 🙂
And Amir got thumped in a matter of seconds. Not a good day for you LadyRed.
[/quote]
Nah he won that one, but he won it in like 80 seconds or something, after a four hour drive to Bolton, I wasn't amused. But it did mean I made it home in time for the Mayweather fight 🙂
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=40105.msg1100041#msg1100041 date=1273137042]
First Season, I thought we had the man.
Second Season there were a few questions.
Third Season I knew there were problems ahead, same mistakes being made same sqaure pegs in round holes nailing his colours to the mast of players who were not that good......so it was then whatever year that was.
regards
[/quote]
Yeah agree.
2nd season thought it was odd. Last year was duped. This year it was confirmed.
First Season, I thought we had the man.
Second Season there were a few questions.
Third Season I knew there were problems ahead, same mistakes being made same sqaure pegs in round holes nailing his colours to the mast of players who were not that good......so it was then whatever year that was.
regards
[/quote]
Yeah agree.
2nd season thought it was odd. Last year was duped. This year it was confirmed.
For me it was when he fielded Lucas at left mid against Villa (I think?) last season.
For me that was the straw that broke the camel's back, up till then I was still being duped by our end-of-season runs where I'd think "By Jove! He's finally figured it all out! Play your best team and play to win!" only to be resigned to disappointment by mid November.
Of course last season was the one where we went on to our best position in yonks, but I still didn't really hold out that much hope and after the transfer period I knew we were fucked this year.
Still thought we'd scrape fourth mind, but who was to know?
Rafa will never ever ever win the league, of this I am certain. He's too stubborn, he lacks imagination, he lacks versatility and he resolutely refuses to learn from his lessons or see the bloody obvious.
Good luck to him in the future, but if he stays on, it'll be to his detriment - my major worry is that he's done such a fantastic Ged impression thus far, he may well decide to copy the staying on too long and tainting the good memories part as well
For me that was the straw that broke the camel's back, up till then I was still being duped by our end-of-season runs where I'd think "By Jove! He's finally figured it all out! Play your best team and play to win!" only to be resigned to disappointment by mid November.
Of course last season was the one where we went on to our best position in yonks, but I still didn't really hold out that much hope and after the transfer period I knew we were fucked this year.
Still thought we'd scrape fourth mind, but who was to know?
Rafa will never ever ever win the league, of this I am certain. He's too stubborn, he lacks imagination, he lacks versatility and he resolutely refuses to learn from his lessons or see the bloody obvious.
Good luck to him in the future, but if he stays on, it'll be to his detriment - my major worry is that he's done such a fantastic Ged impression thus far, he may well decide to copy the staying on too long and tainting the good memories part as well
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=40105.msg1099797#msg1099797 date=1273095159]
How do know what any clubs wage bill is right now Spidey ?
That information isn't available. You only find out a wage bill for this season next year when the finanical results are out. Man City's last reported (in accounts) wage bill was £82m per year.
And yet again this is evidence of how poorly people understand statistics, there is a correlation between success and wage bills. There is no absolute rule that a team on a lower wage bill can't finish above one with a higher wage bill, otherwise United wouldn't have won the league three times on the trot.
Between 1998 and 2007 on average we had a higher wage bill than Arsenal. Their average league position for that decade was 2nd. Ours was 4th. Why ? Quite simply better management. City aren't managed well and are extremely wasteful, if we were more clever in how we go about our business we wouldn't be below them this season. Same goes for Spurs and Villa.
[/quote]
Wage bill info for us last year (08/09 season) = £100.5m.
http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2010/05/07/liverpool-accounts-wages-soar-past-100m-losses-55m-debt-up-to-378m-and-the-bank-needed-paying-in-march-070501/
Only three clubs have ever had a wage bill of more than 100m previously.
And that is exactly why I asked Spidey for verification of the wage bill figures he was on about. They're rarely accurate because it's only a year after the spend that you find out what it was.
How do know what any clubs wage bill is right now Spidey ?
That information isn't available. You only find out a wage bill for this season next year when the finanical results are out. Man City's last reported (in accounts) wage bill was £82m per year.
And yet again this is evidence of how poorly people understand statistics, there is a correlation between success and wage bills. There is no absolute rule that a team on a lower wage bill can't finish above one with a higher wage bill, otherwise United wouldn't have won the league three times on the trot.
Between 1998 and 2007 on average we had a higher wage bill than Arsenal. Their average league position for that decade was 2nd. Ours was 4th. Why ? Quite simply better management. City aren't managed well and are extremely wasteful, if we were more clever in how we go about our business we wouldn't be below them this season. Same goes for Spurs and Villa.
[/quote]
Wage bill info for us last year (08/09 season) = £100.5m.
http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2010/05/07/liverpool-accounts-wages-soar-past-100m-losses-55m-debt-up-to-378m-and-the-bank-needed-paying-in-march-070501/
Only three clubs have ever had a wage bill of more than 100m previously.
And that is exactly why I asked Spidey for verification of the wage bill figures he was on about. They're rarely accurate because it's only a year after the spend that you find out what it was.
Became VERY concerned when he didn't pick our strongest team for Athens - We should have won our sixth that night.
Knew it was all going wrong from approx. October 2008 on, as I watched him piss away the title 'cos he was afraid to try to win it.
Wanted him gone IMMEDIATELY when he took SG off for Keane when Wigan equalized... That, to me, was a huge "fuck you all" to the fans. I've been done since then.
Knew it was all going wrong from approx. October 2008 on, as I watched him piss away the title 'cos he was afraid to try to win it.
Wanted him gone IMMEDIATELY when he took SG off for Keane when Wigan equalized... That, to me, was a huge "fuck you all" to the fans. I've been done since then.
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