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what is the best tactic at old trafford?

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[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39350.msg1071380#msg1071380 date=1268839866]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39350.msg1071374#msg1071374 date=1268839624]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39350.msg1071372#msg1071372 date=1268839487]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39350.msg1071365#msg1071365 date=1268839122]

Supporting us must be a right chore when you crave anti-football to get a decent result.

[/quote]

You've been missing the point for most of this thread now Larry so I'm not going to bother repeating myself again.

We're playing arguably the top side in the country right now. As such, I'll settle for a result and worry about the eye-catching stuff when we've hopefully replaced Benitez at the end of the season.
[/quote]

Hey. I'll settle for that.


[/quote]
He promised us 4th though.
[/quote]

I meant I'll settle for the replaced at the end of the season bit. Not the flat back 8 we'll likely employ this weekend.
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39350.msg1071349#msg1071349 date=1268837942]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39350.msg1071344#msg1071344 date=1268836989]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39350.msg1071335#msg1071335 date=1268836007]
Why people assume we would be more solid defensively with Lucas instead of Aquilani?

Playing higher on the pitch and having a go at them in their half is the best defence.
[/quote]

Because Lucas is more solid defensively than Aquilani. I would've thought that went without saying.

And precisely what precedent are you basing your gung-ho strategy on? Any success we've had against them in the last ten years (particularly at Old Trafford) has been largely founded on keeping it tight and exploiting the gaps they leave when they come at us. Or the odd flash of brilliance.

Besides, have you actually watched us this season? Get a grip man.
[/quote]
I have watched us this season. I knew since day one when I saw the Mascher/Lucas combo in the middle, it would be a long and painful season. Hearing our clueless manager trying to justify it makes it even worse.
Lucas is shite defensively. He looses most of challenges, gives stupid freekicks just outside the box, gives the ball away in our half, very poor positional sense. Headless chicken.
I cant blame him. I guess its the yanks fault if hes playing week in week out.

Playing Benayoun in the hole was the key in our 1st game agaisnt them this season. Aquilani can do the same job.
Id play.

-------------Mascher
Benayoun--Gerrard----Babel

-----------Aquilani
-----------------Torres

We play as a unit, difference is we play 30 yards higher on the pitch and dont let them having a go at us
[/quote]

Wow, just W.O.W.

As for tactics, well Del's nailed it.
 
Don't want to go into this in too much detail, but I'd be shocked if our tactics didn't include some huge protection for Insua and our left-hand side. Not because of Insua's inabilities really, but due to United's massive tendency to attack predominantly down that side.

Valencia pretty much hugs the touchline, in contrast to Nani on the other side who tends to drift in a touch more. The distribution from the back through Rio Innit and Vidic also tends to be more inclined to go down the right-side too. That and when Rooney comes to receive the ball from the midfield with his back to goal, he invariably swings it straight to Valencia quickly before making a dash for the box. It's no coincidence that Rooney's score 8 headers this season.

Valencia's as old fashioned a winger as it gets. Receive, run with it down the wing, the odd trick, and swings it into the box. The problem with defending that is that he does the 'run' bit quicker and better than Insua. If he receives it early enough, near the halfway line, it doesn't really matter where Insua is cos he'll fucking skin the Argentine. Which means two things:

1 - Le Chacal's fucking laughable "we should play 30 yards higher up the pitch" has about as much chace of happening as I have of this post not being referred to as "chalkboard tactics". It won't happen.

2 - We'll deploy a defensive midfielder to cover Insua's arse as a priority. It'll most likely be Lucas. The Brazilian did a decent job of this at Wigan to curb N'Zogbia, and he'll do it again in my opinion.

No doubt this will lead to all and sundry making rrather disingenuous comparisons between Aquilani's attacking contribution and that of Lucas'. Here's the thing folks; one's a defensive midfielder, the other's an attacking midfielder. It's like comparing Mikel to Lampard.

The one benefit of Valencia charging forward, is that in an ideal world - Lucas and Insua nick it off him and release Babel quickly to go at Neville. Or whomever's at right-back for them. Babel then cuases havoc. Watch for Torres drifting wide-left to pick up the ball early from there too.

That'd be my plan anyway.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39350.msg1071783#msg1071783 date=1268889619]
Don't want to go into this in too much detail, but I'd be shocked if our tactics didn't include some huge protection for Insua and our left-hand side. Not because of Insua's inabilities really, but due to United's massive tendency to attack predominantly down that side.

Valencia pretty much hugs the touchline, in contrast to Nani on the other side who tends to drift in a touch more. The distribution from the back through Rio Innit and Vidic also tends to be more inclined to go down the right-side too. That and when Rooney comes to receive the ball from the midfield with his back to goal, he invariably swings it straight to Valencia quickly before making a dash for the box. It's no coincidence that Rooney's score 8 headers this season.

Valencia's as old fashioned a winger as it gets. Receive, run with it down the wing, the odd trick, and swings it into the box. The problem with defending that is that he does the 'run' bit quicker and better than Insua. If he receives it early enough, near the halfway line, it doesn't really matter where Insua is cos he'll fucking skin the Argentine. Which means two things:

1 - Le Chacal's fucking laughable "we should play 30 yards higher up the pitch" has about as much chace of happening as I have of this post not being referred to as "chalkboard tactics". It won't happen.

2 - We'll deploy a defensive midfielder to cover Insua's arse as a priority. It'll most likely be Lucas. The Brazilian did a decent job of this at Wigan to curb N'Zogbia, and he'll do it again in my opinion.

No doubt this will lead to all and sundry making rrather disingenuous comparisons between Aquilani's attacking contribution and that of Lucas'. Here's the thing folks; one's a defensive midfielder, the other's an attacking midfielder. It's like comparing Mikel to Lampard.

The one benefit of Valencia charging forward, is that in an ideal world - Lucas and Insua nick it off him and release Babel quickly to go at Neville. Or whomever's at right-back for them. Babel then cuases havoc. Watch for Torres drifting wide-left to pick up the ball early from there too.

That'd be my plan anyway.
[/quote]

you think babel will start this game? I don't. the only why babel will start this game is if he rips lille a new arsehole...and even then it wouldn't be a foregone conclusion.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39350.msg1071798#msg1071798 date=1268893183]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39350.msg1071783#msg1071783 date=1268889619]
Don't want to go into this in too much detail, but I'd be shocked if our tactics didn't include some huge protection for Insua and our left-hand side. Not because of Insua's inabilities really, but due to United's massive tendency to attack predominantly down that side.

Valencia pretty much hugs the touchline, in contrast to Nani on the other side who tends to drift in a touch more. The distribution from the back through Rio Innit and Vidic also tends to be more inclined to go down the right-side too. That and when Rooney comes to receive the ball from the midfield with his back to goal, he invariably swings it straight to Valencia quickly before making a dash for the box. It's no coincidence that Rooney's score 8 headers this season.

Valencia's as old fashioned a winger as it gets. Receive, run with it down the wing, the odd trick, and swings it into the box. The problem with defending that is that he does the 'run' bit quicker and better than Insua. If he receives it early enough, near the halfway line, it doesn't really matter where Insua is cos he'll fucking skin the Argentine. Which means two things:

1 - Le Chacal's fucking laughable "we should play 30 yards higher up the pitch" has about as much chace of happening as I have of this post not being referred to as "chalkboard tactics". It won't happen.

2 - We'll deploy a defensive midfielder to cover Insua's arse as a priority. It'll most likely be Lucas. The Brazilian did a decent job of this at Wigan to curb N'Zogbia, and he'll do it again in my opinion.

No doubt this will lead to all and sundry making rrather disingenuous comparisons between Aquilani's attacking contribution and that of Lucas'. Here's the thing folks; one's a defensive midfielder, the other's an attacking midfielder. It's like comparing Mikel to Lampard.

The one benefit of Valencia charging forward, is that in an ideal world - Lucas and Insua nick it off him and release Babel quickly to go at Neville. Or whomever's at right-back for them. Babel then cuases havoc. Watch for Torres drifting wide-left to pick up the ball early from there too.

That'd be my plan anyway.
[/quote]

you think babel will start this game? I don't. the only why babel will start this game is if he rips lille a new arsehole...and even then it wouldn't be a foregone conclusion.
[/quote]

I think he might, yeah.
 
rafa's tactic will be to keep it tight and hit them on the counter which is the wise choice because;

a) manu are better at attacking football than we are with more players suited to it and a manager who employs more than our manager.

b) exactly home many teams have we attacked this season? is manu in their own back yard the team to choose to attack? really?


the team will be


-----------------reina------------------
johnson----agger---carra-------insua
kuyt----lucas--------mash------yossi*
-----------gerrard-------------------
--------------torres------------------

*the only question mark who will play at left midfield

babel - he will have to have a blinder tonight, and even then I doubt it because I don't think rafa will trust him to protect insua

maxi - he isn't playing tonight so rafa may go with him because he will be fresh

yossi - most likely as he will track back but has been poor at left midfield this season
 
Last season's starting line-up at old toilet:

Jose Manuel Reina, Sami Hyypia, Fabio Aurelio, Martin Skrtel, Jamie Carragher, Albert Riera, Steven Gerrard, Lucas Leiva, Javier Mascherano, Dirk Kuyt, Fernando Torres

Our defence was much better last season.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39350.msg1071344#msg1071344 date=1268836989]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39350.msg1071335#msg1071335 date=1268836007]
Why people assume we would be more solid defensively with Lucas instead of Aquilani?

Playing higher on the pitch and having a go at them in their half is the best defence.
[/quote]

Because Lucas is more solid defensively than Aquilani. I would've thought that went without saying.

And precisely what precedent are you basing your gung-ho strategy on? Any success we've had against them in the last ten years (particularly at Old Trafford) has been largely founded on keeping it tight and exploiting the gaps they leave when they come at us. Or the odd flash of brilliance.

Besides, have you actually watched us this season? Get a grip man.
[/quote]

Lucas is not solid defensively. He is shit defensively. He runs a lot, but so does aquilani. I keep hearing about Lucas defensively capabilities, but I never see them.... He is shit defensively. Late into tackles, lazy chasing back and poor tactical.
 
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=39350.msg1071826#msg1071826 date=1268898839]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39350.msg1071344#msg1071344 date=1268836989]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39350.msg1071335#msg1071335 date=1268836007]
Why people assume we would be more solid defensively with Lucas instead of Aquilani?

Playing higher on the pitch and having a go at them in their half is the best defence.
[/quote]

Because Lucas is more solid defensively than Aquilani. I would've thought that went without saying.

And precisely what precedent are you basing your gung-ho strategy on? Any success we've had against them in the last ten years (particularly at Old Trafford) has been largely founded on keeping it tight and exploiting the gaps they leave when they come at us. Or the odd flash of brilliance.

Besides, have you actually watched us this season? Get a grip man.
[/quote]

Lucas is not solid defensively. He is shit defensively. He runs a lot, but so does aquilani. I keep hearing about Lucas defensively capabilities, but I never see them.... He is shit defensively. Late into tackles, lazy chasing back and poor tactical.
[/quote]

lucas is a hugely unpopular player but saying aqualini is more solid than him defensively is stretching it.
 
It's not stretching it, it's being wrong. Lucas is a decent tackler, considering he's not very athletic, whereas it's simply not part of Aquilani's game at all.

The only issue is that with Lucas and Mascherano as our midfield, we're going to be doing a lot of defending, because we haven't demonstrated much ability to mount attacks and pass out of our half when we do win the ball with them.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39350.msg1071832#msg1071832 date=1268899598]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=39350.msg1071826#msg1071826 date=1268898839]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39350.msg1071344#msg1071344 date=1268836989]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39350.msg1071335#msg1071335 date=1268836007]
Why people assume we would be more solid defensively with Lucas instead of Aquilani?

Playing higher on the pitch and having a go at them in their half is the best defence.
[/quote]

Because Lucas is more solid defensively than Aquilani. I would've thought that went without saying.

And precisely what precedent are you basing your gung-ho strategy on? Any success we've had against them in the last ten years (particularly at Old Trafford) has been largely founded on keeping it tight and exploiting the gaps they leave when they come at us. Or the odd flash of brilliance.

Besides, have you actually watched us this season? Get a grip man.
[/quote]

Lucas is not solid defensively. He is shit defensively. He runs a lot, but so does aquilani. I keep hearing about Lucas defensively capabilities, but I never see them.... He is shit defensively. Late into tackles, lazy chasing back and poor tactical.
[/quote]

lucas is a hugely unpopular player but saying aqualini is more solid than him defensively is stretching it.
[/quote]

Well I didnt say he was more solid, I just pointed out that lucas defensive capabilities are HUGELY overrated. Because Rafa keeps on repeating stuff doesnt make it more true... Lucas is poor defesively and a ctastrophe inside our own box.
 
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=39350.msg1071826#msg1071826 date=1268898839]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39350.msg1071344#msg1071344 date=1268836989]
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39350.msg1071335#msg1071335 date=1268836007]
Why people assume we would be more solid defensively with Lucas instead of Aquilani?

Playing higher on the pitch and having a go at them in their half is the best defence.
[/quote]

Because Lucas is more solid defensively than Aquilani. I would've thought that went without saying.

And precisely what precedent are you basing your gung-ho strategy on? Any success we've had against them in the last ten years (particularly at Old Trafford) has been largely founded on keeping it tight and exploiting the gaps they leave when they come at us. Or the odd flash of brilliance.

Besides, have you actually watched us this season? Get a grip man.
[/quote]

Lucas is not solid defensively. He is shit defensively. He runs a lot, but so does aquilani. I keep hearing about Lucas defensively capabilities, but I never see them.... He is shit defensively. Late into tackles, lazy chasing back and poor tactical.
[/quote]

This is simply not true.
 
I wonder will Johnson be told to hold his position like he did at Anfield. Evra will be a danger on the left as usual and Rafa will want us to keep our shape and not be exposed. This will mean we will be over reliant on Torres and Gerrard to create. I just hope they are supported and not isolated. I presume Maxi will do a shift on the left to help Insua?
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=39350.msg1072600#msg1072600 date=1268954331]
I wonder will Johnson be told to hold his position like he did at Anfield. Evra will be a danger on the left as usual and Rafa will want us to keep our shape and not be exposed. This will mean we will be over reliant on Torres and Gerrard to create. I just hope they are supported and not isolated. I presume Maxi will do a shift on the left to help Insua?
[/quote]

It'll be the same team as tonight mate in my view.
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=39350.msg1071335#msg1071335 date=1268836007]
Playing higher on the pitch and having a go at them in their half is the best defence.
[/quote]

With the pace of Rooney, Nani and Valencia breaking.. against Carra and Insua.. you're having a laugh right.. we'd be slaughtered.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39350.msg1072604#msg1072604 date=1268954814]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=39350.msg1072600#msg1072600 date=1268954331]
I wonder will Johnson be told to hold his position like he did at Anfield. Evra will be a danger on the left as usual and Rafa will want us to keep our shape and not be exposed. This will mean we will be over reliant on Torres and Gerrard to create. I just hope they are supported and not isolated. I presume Maxi will do a shift on the left to help Insua?
[/quote]

It'll be the same team as tonight mate in my view.
[/quote] I can see Maxi starting on the left.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=39350.msg1072611#msg1072611 date=1268955331]
Neville won't start surely
[/quote]

Isn't Brown still out though?

Neville has played the last few games for United.
 
What about Rafael or O'Shea? I haven't been paying attention to them recently as it's too depressing. I'd be delighted if he starts.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=39350.msg1072618#msg1072618 date=1268955628]
What about Rafael or O'Shea? I haven't been paying attention to them recently as it's too depressing. I'd be delighted if he starts.
[/quote]

O'Shea is injured anyway.
 
The ref for the game

howard_webb1.jpg
 
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