We're going to play 433 this season
- Thread starter robinhood
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Hi Robin
Hi Robin- show us this 4-3-3 you speak of, fleshed out with players.
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924458#msg924458 date=1250268484]
--------------Torres
-Babel-----------------Benayoun
-----Aquilani------Gerrard
----------Mascherano
Insua Carragher Skrtel Johnson
----------------Reina
[/quote]
No don't see that at all. Why would you break up the best forward partnership in the world ? And no Kuyt ? You heretic !
Rafa's use of 'use him in another way' or words to that effect are more likely to mean pushing him farther forward than Xabi ever did.
I can still see (when all are fit and raring to go) :
------------------Torres
Silva---------------------Gerrard--------Kuyt
----------------Aquilani
--------------Mascherano
Insua - Agger/Skrtel - Carragher - Johnson
----------------Reina
And maybe Aquilani will push up into that space between Silva / Gerrard at home against 10 men defences.
--------------Torres
-Babel-----------------Benayoun
-----Aquilani------Gerrard
----------Mascherano
Insua Carragher Skrtel Johnson
----------------Reina
[/quote]
No don't see that at all. Why would you break up the best forward partnership in the world ? And no Kuyt ? You heretic !
Rafa's use of 'use him in another way' or words to that effect are more likely to mean pushing him farther forward than Xabi ever did.
I can still see (when all are fit and raring to go) :
------------------Torres
Silva---------------------Gerrard--------Kuyt
----------------Aquilani
--------------Mascherano
Insua - Agger/Skrtel - Carragher - Johnson
----------------Reina
And maybe Aquilani will push up into that space between Silva / Gerrard at home against 10 men defences.
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924458#msg924458 date=1250268484]
--------------Torres
-Babel-----------------Benayoun
-----Aquilani------Gerrard
----------Mascherano
Insua Carragher Skrtel Johnson
----------------Reina
[/quote]
ahhh- 4-1-4-1
--------------Torres
-Babel-----------------Benayoun
-----Aquilani------Gerrard
----------Mascherano
Insua Carragher Skrtel Johnson
----------------Reina
[/quote]
ahhh- 4-1-4-1
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=35248.msg924467#msg924467 date=1250269193]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924458#msg924458 date=1250268484]
--------------Torres
-Babel-----------------Benayoun
-----Aquilani------Gerrard
----------Mascherano
Insua Carragher Skrtel Johnson
----------------Reina
[/quote]
No don't see that at all. Why would you break up the best forward partnership in the world ? And no Kuyt ? You heretic !
Rafa's use of 'use him in another way' or words to that effect are more likely to mean pushing him farther forward than Xabi ever did.
I can still see (when all are fit and raring to go) :
------------------Torres
Silva---------------------Gerrard--------Kuyt
----------------Aquilani
--------------Mascherano
Insua - Agger/Skrtel - Carragher - Johnson
----------------Reina
And maybe Aquilani will push up into that space between Silva / Gerrard at home against 10 men defences.
[/quote]
erm....isn't that more or less the same team and form robin mentioned, but with a player we dont have?
So Robin is saying that Gerrard and Aquilani will share equal amount of defensive responsibility in keeping the shape, while you say on the balance of play Aquilani will have more defending to do than Gerrard, but not as much as Xabi used to?
Rafa has never come across as the manager who would go all out attacking for the jugular. If he gives Aquilani more freedom, he will take something from Gerrard in terms of attacking....so he can keep the shape.
In just one summer you think Rafa will change his trusted system of two Defensive Mids to just one Defensive Mid, and also incorporate fullbacks and wing forwards who attack more than defend in his system? Sounds like wishful thinking.
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924458#msg924458 date=1250268484]
--------------Torres
-Babel-----------------Benayoun
-----Aquilani------Gerrard
----------Mascherano
Insua Carragher Skrtel Johnson
----------------Reina
[/quote]
No don't see that at all. Why would you break up the best forward partnership in the world ? And no Kuyt ? You heretic !
Rafa's use of 'use him in another way' or words to that effect are more likely to mean pushing him farther forward than Xabi ever did.
I can still see (when all are fit and raring to go) :
------------------Torres
Silva---------------------Gerrard--------Kuyt
----------------Aquilani
--------------Mascherano
Insua - Agger/Skrtel - Carragher - Johnson
----------------Reina
And maybe Aquilani will push up into that space between Silva / Gerrard at home against 10 men defences.
[/quote]
erm....isn't that more or less the same team and form robin mentioned, but with a player we dont have?
So Robin is saying that Gerrard and Aquilani will share equal amount of defensive responsibility in keeping the shape, while you say on the balance of play Aquilani will have more defending to do than Gerrard, but not as much as Xabi used to?
Rafa has never come across as the manager who would go all out attacking for the jugular. If he gives Aquilani more freedom, he will take something from Gerrard in terms of attacking....so he can keep the shape.
In just one summer you think Rafa will change his trusted system of two Defensive Mids to just one Defensive Mid, and also incorporate fullbacks and wing forwards who attack more than defend in his system? Sounds like wishful thinking.
See where you are coming from MM but no that's not the line of thinking.
It's different from Robin's because Gerrard has dropped off too far from Torres in his line-up (at least on paper) whereas I've left Gerrard where he is and was last year, have drafted in Silva (if I say it enough times I'm sure it will happen - but if you insist put Riera or Babel there) which is in effect no change at all to the front-four.
All I've suggested is that against 10 men defences where we don't need 2 defensive midfielders then Aquilani (and Lucas, who was far more attack minded in Brazil) would aid the attack better by playing further forward and slipping into that space between the LM and Gerrard. I guess this is what Rafa has hinted at.
It's different from Robin's because Gerrard has dropped off too far from Torres in his line-up (at least on paper) whereas I've left Gerrard where he is and was last year, have drafted in Silva (if I say it enough times I'm sure it will happen - but if you insist put Riera or Babel there) which is in effect no change at all to the front-four.
All I've suggested is that against 10 men defences where we don't need 2 defensive midfielders then Aquilani (and Lucas, who was far more attack minded in Brazil) would aid the attack better by playing further forward and slipping into that space between the LM and Gerrard. I guess this is what Rafa has hinted at.
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924458#msg924458 date=1250268484]
--------------Torres
-Babel-----------------Benayoun
-----Aquilani------Gerrard
----------Mascherano
Insua Carragher Skrtel Johnson
----------------Reina
[/quote]
It looks like man's parachute didn't open and he landed in some snow.
--------------Torres
-Babel-----------------Benayoun
-----Aquilani------Gerrard
----------Mascherano
Insua Carragher Skrtel Johnson
----------------Reina
[/quote]
It looks like man's parachute didn't open and he landed in some snow.
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=35248.msg924509#msg924509 date=1250275109]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924458#msg924458 date=1250268484]
--------------Torres
-Babel-----------------Benayoun
-----Aquilani------Gerrard
----------Mascherano
Insua Carragher Skrtel Johnson
----------------Reina
[/quote]
It looks like man's parachute didn't open and he landed in some snow.
[/quote]
*tries hard to visualise that mental image in the formation above - fails* Oh you mean Robin !
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924458#msg924458 date=1250268484]
--------------Torres
-Babel-----------------Benayoun
-----Aquilani------Gerrard
----------Mascherano
Insua Carragher Skrtel Johnson
----------------Reina
[/quote]
It looks like man's parachute didn't open and he landed in some snow.
[/quote]
*tries hard to visualise that mental image in the formation above - fails* Oh you mean Robin !
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924458#msg924458 date=1250268484]
--------------Torres
-Babel-----------------Benayoun
-----Aquilani------Gerrard
----------Mascherano
Insua Carragher Skrtel Johnson
----------------Reina
[/quote]
Cos we're gonna drop Kuyt.
Can't see Babel starting, or him and Benayoun playing further up the pitch than Gerrard. So cobblers.
--------------Torres
-Babel-----------------Benayoun
-----Aquilani------Gerrard
----------Mascherano
Insua Carragher Skrtel Johnson
----------------Reina
[/quote]
Cos we're gonna drop Kuyt.
Can't see Babel starting, or him and Benayoun playing further up the pitch than Gerrard. So cobblers.
--------------------------------REINA----------------------------
JOHNSON----------AGGER-----------CARRAGHER----INSUA
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------LUCAS----------MASCHERANO-----------
-----------------------------AQUILANI---------------------------
---------------KUYT-------------------------GERRARD----------
-------------------------------TORRES---------------------------
JOHNSON----------AGGER-----------CARRAGHER----INSUA
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------LUCAS----------MASCHERANO-----------
-----------------------------AQUILANI---------------------------
---------------KUYT-------------------------GERRARD----------
-------------------------------TORRES---------------------------
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35248.msg924514#msg924514 date=1250275828]
--------------------------------REINA----------------------------
JOHNSON----------AGGER-----------CARRAGHER----INSUA
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------LUCAS----------MASCHERANO-----------
-----------------------------AQUILANI---------------------------
---------------KUYT-------------------------GERRARD----------
-------------------------------TORRES---------------------------
[/quote]
Oh you are so contrary ! Inverting the team.
Nah SG is not at his best out wide left. Hence Silva being spotted at Speke.
--------------------------------REINA----------------------------
JOHNSON----------AGGER-----------CARRAGHER----INSUA
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------LUCAS----------MASCHERANO-----------
-----------------------------AQUILANI---------------------------
---------------KUYT-------------------------GERRARD----------
-------------------------------TORRES---------------------------
[/quote]
Oh you are so contrary ! Inverting the team.
Nah SG is not at his best out wide left. Hence Silva being spotted at Speke.
S
Squiggles
Guest
I think Robin's spot on in terms of system, just the wrong players.
-----------------Masher
--------Gerrard--------Aquilani
--Kuyt----------------------------Riera
------------------Torres
But then Rafa did say he'll be playing between Masher and Gerrard, so being incredibly pedantic maybe it's this:
-------------Masher
------------Aquilani
---Kuyt------Gerrard------Riera
--------------Torres
I don't think Gerrard will have quite the same level of freedom this season.
-----------------Masher
--------Gerrard--------Aquilani
--Kuyt----------------------------Riera
------------------Torres
But then Rafa did say he'll be playing between Masher and Gerrard, so being incredibly pedantic maybe it's this:
-------------Masher
------------Aquilani
---Kuyt------Gerrard------Riera
--------------Torres
I don't think Gerrard will have quite the same level of freedom this season.
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=35248.msg924467#msg924467 date=1250269193]
No don't see that at all. Why would you break up the best forward partnership in the world ? And no Kuyt ? You heretic !
Rafa's use of 'use him in another way' or words to that effect are more likely to mean pushing him farther forward than Xabi ever did.
I can still see (when all are fit and raring to go) :
------------------Torres
Silva---------------------Gerrard--------Kuyt
----------------Aquilani
--------------Mascherano
Insua - Agger/Skrtel - Carragher - Johnson
----------------Reina
And maybe Aquilani will push up into that space between Silva / Gerrard at home against 10 men defences.
[/quote]
Fair enough, Kuyt then. The wide players were just an example.
It's not exactly "breaking up" Gerrard and Torres - Gerrard will still have plenty of opportunity to go forward.
Anyway, we'll see what happens as the team settle in.
No don't see that at all. Why would you break up the best forward partnership in the world ? And no Kuyt ? You heretic !
Rafa's use of 'use him in another way' or words to that effect are more likely to mean pushing him farther forward than Xabi ever did.
I can still see (when all are fit and raring to go) :
------------------Torres
Silva---------------------Gerrard--------Kuyt
----------------Aquilani
--------------Mascherano
Insua - Agger/Skrtel - Carragher - Johnson
----------------Reina
And maybe Aquilani will push up into that space between Silva / Gerrard at home against 10 men defences.
[/quote]
Fair enough, Kuyt then. The wide players were just an example.
It's not exactly "breaking up" Gerrard and Torres - Gerrard will still have plenty of opportunity to go forward.
Anyway, we'll see what happens as the team settle in.
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=35248.msg924532#msg924532 date=1250279008]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35248.msg924514#msg924514 date=1250275828]
--------------------------------REINA----------------------------
JOHNSON----------AGGER-----------CARRAGHER----INSUA
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------LUCAS----------MASCHERANO-----------
-----------------------------AQUILANI---------------------------
---------------KUYT-------------------------GERRARD----------
-------------------------------TORRES---------------------------
[/quote]
Oh you are so contrary ! Inverting the team.
Nah SG is not at his best out wide left. Hence Silva being spotted at Speke.
[/quote]Wide left....WIDE LEFT!!?!! He isnt wide left, he's part of a front 3 triangle. Johnson and Insua will be providing the width and Lucas and Mascherano will be supplemeting the back TWO.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35248.msg924514#msg924514 date=1250275828]
--------------------------------REINA----------------------------
JOHNSON----------AGGER-----------CARRAGHER----INSUA
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------LUCAS----------MASCHERANO-----------
-----------------------------AQUILANI---------------------------
---------------KUYT-------------------------GERRARD----------
-------------------------------TORRES---------------------------
[/quote]
Oh you are so contrary ! Inverting the team.
Nah SG is not at his best out wide left. Hence Silva being spotted at Speke.
[/quote]Wide left....WIDE LEFT!!?!! He isnt wide left, he's part of a front 3 triangle. Johnson and Insua will be providing the width and Lucas and Mascherano will be supplemeting the back TWO.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35248.msg924538#msg924538 date=1250279544]
being incredibly pedantic maybe it's this:
-------------Masher
------------Aquilani
---Kuyt------Gerrard------Riera[/quote]
That's absurdly pedantic. Apart from the fact that it's not even a recognised formation.
What I'm pointing out is given that Aquilani is a different player to Alonso, the shape of the midfield will have to be at least a bit different, and as Rafa himself is talking about changing the system, given our personnel it looks like it'll be 433.
Which I'm happy about because it's a more versatile system.
being incredibly pedantic maybe it's this:
-------------Masher
------------Aquilani
---Kuyt------Gerrard------Riera[/quote]
That's absurdly pedantic. Apart from the fact that it's not even a recognised formation.
What I'm pointing out is given that Aquilani is a different player to Alonso, the shape of the midfield will have to be at least a bit different, and as Rafa himself is talking about changing the system, given our personnel it looks like it'll be 433.
Which I'm happy about because it's a more versatile system.
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924541#msg924541 date=1250279959]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35248.msg924538#msg924538 date=1250279544]
being incredibly pedantic maybe it's this:
-------------Masher
------------Aquilani
---Kuyt------Gerrard------Riera[/quote]
That's absurdly pedantic. Apart from the fact that it's not even a recognised formation.
What I'm pointing out is given that Aquilani is a different player to Alonso, the shape of the midfield will have to be at least a bit different, and as Rafa himself is talking about changing the system, given our personnel it looks like it'll be 433.
Which I'm happy about because it's a more versatile system.
[/quote]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35248.msg924538#msg924538 date=1250279544]
being incredibly pedantic maybe it's this:
-------------Masher
------------Aquilani
---Kuyt------Gerrard------Riera[/quote]
That's absurdly pedantic. Apart from the fact that it's not even a recognised formation.
What I'm pointing out is given that Aquilani is a different player to Alonso, the shape of the midfield will have to be at least a bit different, and as Rafa himself is talking about changing the system, given our personnel it looks like it'll be 433.
Which I'm happy about because it's a more versatile system.
[/quote]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=35248.msg924509#msg924509 date=1250275109]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924458#msg924458 date=1250268484]
--------------Torres
-Babel-----------------Benayoun
-----Aquilani------Gerrard
----------Mascherano
Insua Carragher Skrtel Johnson
----------------Reina
[/quote]
It looks like man's parachute didn't open and he landed in some snow.
[/quote]
hahaha
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924458#msg924458 date=1250268484]
--------------Torres
-Babel-----------------Benayoun
-----Aquilani------Gerrard
----------Mascherano
Insua Carragher Skrtel Johnson
----------------Reina
[/quote]
It looks like man's parachute didn't open and he landed in some snow.
[/quote]
hahaha
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=35248.msg924542#msg924542 date=1250280076]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924541#msg924541 date=1250279959]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35248.msg924538#msg924538 date=1250279544]
being incredibly pedantic maybe it's this:
-------------Masher
------------Aquilani
---Kuyt------Gerrard------Riera[/quote]
That's absurdly pedantic. Apart from the fact that it's not even a recognised formation.
What I'm pointing out is given that Aquilani is a different player to Alonso, the shape of the midfield will have to be at least a bit different, and as Rafa himself is talking about changing the system, given our personnel it looks like it'll be 433.
Which I'm happy about because it's a more versatile system.
[/quote]
[/quote]
ha- No-one could just log in and pretend to be Robin could they?
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924541#msg924541 date=1250279959]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35248.msg924538#msg924538 date=1250279544]
being incredibly pedantic maybe it's this:
-------------Masher
------------Aquilani
---Kuyt------Gerrard------Riera[/quote]
That's absurdly pedantic. Apart from the fact that it's not even a recognised formation.
What I'm pointing out is given that Aquilani is a different player to Alonso, the shape of the midfield will have to be at least a bit different, and as Rafa himself is talking about changing the system, given our personnel it looks like it'll be 433.
Which I'm happy about because it's a more versatile system.
[/quote]
[/quote]
ha- No-one could just log in and pretend to be Robin could they?
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924449#msg924449 date=1250267760]
I did wonder...
[/quote]
Didn't Gerrard drop into this position towards the end against Athletico. With Lucas and Gerrard taking turns getting forward. I liked it and sounds like a very good fit for Aquilani.
I did wonder...
[/quote]
Didn't Gerrard drop into this position towards the end against Athletico. With Lucas and Gerrard taking turns getting forward. I liked it and sounds like a very good fit for Aquilani.
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924541#msg924541 date=1250279959]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35248.msg924538#msg924538 date=1250279544]
being incredibly pedantic maybe it's this:
-------------Masher
------------Aquilani
---Kuyt------Gerrard------Riera[/quote]
That's absurdly pedantic. Apart from the fact that it's not even a recognised formation.
What I'm pointing out is given that Aquilani is a different player to Alonso, the shape of the midfield will have to be at least a bit different, and as Rafa himself is talking about changing the system, given our personnel it looks like it'll be 433.
Which I'm happy about because it's a more versatile system.
[/quote]
Doesn't seem absurdly pedantic to me. (Hi Robin!) Rafa's said that Aquilani will operate between Mascher and Gerrard, so it appears a more accurate reflection of his words so far than your 433 does.
Obviously formations on the pitch are more fluid than words on a screen, and perhaps Gerrard will drop deeper at times (I often wish he would, just so he gets on the ball a bit more often), but I can't see him playing *behind* the two wide players, which is what your system would presuppose. I might be wrong, but as it stands he's a lot more dangerous as an attacking force than either Kuyt or Riera, so I don't really see the advantage in making his role more defensive and theirs more offensive.
Or is that not what you meant?
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35248.msg924538#msg924538 date=1250279544]
being incredibly pedantic maybe it's this:
-------------Masher
------------Aquilani
---Kuyt------Gerrard------Riera[/quote]
That's absurdly pedantic. Apart from the fact that it's not even a recognised formation.
What I'm pointing out is given that Aquilani is a different player to Alonso, the shape of the midfield will have to be at least a bit different, and as Rafa himself is talking about changing the system, given our personnel it looks like it'll be 433.
Which I'm happy about because it's a more versatile system.
[/quote]
Doesn't seem absurdly pedantic to me. (Hi Robin!) Rafa's said that Aquilani will operate between Mascher and Gerrard, so it appears a more accurate reflection of his words so far than your 433 does.
Obviously formations on the pitch are more fluid than words on a screen, and perhaps Gerrard will drop deeper at times (I often wish he would, just so he gets on the ball a bit more often), but I can't see him playing *behind* the two wide players, which is what your system would presuppose. I might be wrong, but as it stands he's a lot more dangerous as an attacking force than either Kuyt or Riera, so I don't really see the advantage in making his role more defensive and theirs more offensive.
Or is that not what you meant?
S
Squiggles
Guest
I know, right
Why listen to what the manager says he going to do when we can wildly speculate instead.
Why listen to what the manager says he going to do when we can wildly speculate instead.
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35248.msg924590#msg924590 date=1250292775]
I know, right
Why listen to what the manager says he going to do when we can wildly speculate instead.
[/quote]
TBF, this forum wouldnt exist if we did simply listen to what the manager said. I say speculate away!
I know, right
Why listen to what the manager says he going to do when we can wildly speculate instead.
[/quote]
TBF, this forum wouldnt exist if we did simply listen to what the manager said. I say speculate away!
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