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We're going to play 433 this season

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[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=35248.msg924593#msg924593 date=1250293048]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=35248.msg924590#msg924590 date=1250292775]
I know, right

Why listen to what the manager says he going to do when we can wildly speculate instead.
[/quote]

TBF, this forum wouldnt exist if we did simply listen to what the manager said. I say speculate away!
[/quote]Woooo.
Reina
Insua
Agger
Carra
Johnson

Mascherano

Babel
Kuyt
Gerrard
Benayoun

Torres.
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924458#msg924458 date=1250268484]
--------------Torres
-Babel-----------------Benayoun
-----Aquilani------Gerrard
----------Mascherano
Insua Carragher Skrtel Johnson
----------------Reina
[/quote]

Drop in Kuyt for Benayoun and I think that's exactly how we'll try to line up against some of the smaller teams.

Aginst the bigger teams Acquilani will be dropped and Lucas will sit beside Mascherano with Gerrard moving to a central roll behind Torres.

The players we have fit in to this style very well. We don't use traditional wingers.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=35248.msg924600#msg924600 date=1250295126]
It's an "attacking 4-3-3" if the media like you. If not, it's a "defensive 4-5-1"
[/quote]

Ha, funny cos it's true.
 
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=35248.msg924633#msg924633 date=1250313786]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924458#msg924458 date=1250268484]
--------------Torres
-Babel-----------------Benayoun
-----Aquilani------Gerrard
----------Mascherano
Insua Carragher Skrtel Johnson
----------------Reina
[/quote]

Drop in Kuyt for Benayoun and I think that's exactly how we'll try to line up against some of the smaller teams.

Aginst the bigger teams Acquilani will be dropped and Lucas will sit beside Mascherano with Gerrard moving to a central roll behind Torres.

The players we have fit in to this style very well. We don't use traditional wingers.
[/quote]

Not sure about Aquilani being dropped against the big teams. More likely he'll just be given a more defensive mandate.
 
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=35248.msg924633#msg924633 date=1250313786]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924458#msg924458 date=1250268484]
--------------Torres
-Babel-----------------Benayoun
-----Aquilani------Gerrard
----------Mascherano
Insua Carragher Skrtel Johnson
----------------Reina
[/quote]

Drop in Kuyt for Benayoun and I think that's exactly how we'll try to line up against some of the smaller teams.

Aginst the bigger teams Acquilani will be dropped and Lucas will sit beside Mascherano with Gerrard moving to a central roll behind Torres.

The players we have fit in to this style very well. We don't use traditional wingers.
[/quote]

Aquilani - Rafa's biggest signing of the Summer and who could end up being our costliest player ever - dropped for the bigger games ?! WTF ! Back to the drawing board Stevie !
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35248.msg924587#msg924587 date=1250290776]

Doesn't seem absurdly pedantic to me. (Hi Robin!) Rafa's said that Aquilani will operate between Mascher and Gerrard, so it appears a more accurate reflection of his words so far than your 433 does.

[/quote]

I've never seen a 433 where the forward two of the midifield three held *exactly* the same position all the time.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35248.msg924587#msg924587 date=1250290776]
I can't see him playing *behind* the two wide players, which is what your system would presuppose. [/quote]

Only if you take my visual description very, *very* literally.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35248.msg924587#msg924587 date=1250290776]

Or is that not what you meant?

[/quote]

Neither is it what I said.
 
Aquilani pissed on the Chelsea midfield at Stamford Bridge, he'll play against the top teams. And why shouldn't he, he's a fantastic player.
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924744#msg924744 date=1250335392]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35248.msg924587#msg924587 date=1250290776]
I can't see him playing *behind* the two wide players, which is what your system would presuppose. [/quote]

Only if you take my visual description very, *very* literally.
[/quote]

OK then, Robin. So in what way is it a 433, rather than just being your old favourite 4231 with a slightly more attacking CM?
 
For the hell of it, here's what Wikipedia says about 433:

4-3-3
4-3-3 Formation

The 4-3-3 was a development of the 4-2-4, and was played by the Brazilian national team in the 1962 World Cup. Quite simply, it is a more attacking 4-3-2-1. The extra player in midfield allows a stronger defence, and the midfield could be staggered for different effects. The three midfielders normally play closely together to protect the defence, and move laterally across the field as a coordinated unit. The three forwards split across the field to spread the attack, and may be expected to mark the opposition full-backs as opposed to doubling back to assist their own full-backs, as do the wide midfielders in a 4-4-2. When used from the start of a game, this formation is widely regarded as encouraging expansive play, and should not be confused with the practice of modifying a 4-4-2 by bringing on an extra forward to replace a midfield player when behind in the latter stages of a game.

A staggered 4-3-3 involving a defensive midfielder (usually numbered 4 or 6) and two attacking midfielders (numbered 8 and 10) was commonplace in Italy, Argentina and Uruguay during the 1960s and 1970s. The Italian variety of 4-3-3 was simply a modification of WM, by converting one of the two wing-halves to a libero (sweeper), whereas the Argentine and Uruguayan formations were derived from 2-3-5 and retained the notional attacking centre-half. The national team which made this famous was the Dutch team of the 1974 and 1978 World Cups, even though the team won neither.

In club football, the team that brought this formation to the forefront was the famous Ajax Amsterdam team of the early 1970s, which won three European Cups with Johan Cruyff. Most teams using this formation now use the specialist defensive midfielder; F.C. Barcelona are the most famous recent example.[7]

At the 2006 FIFA World Cup Spain and The Netherlands played both a variation of 4-3-3 without wingers. The three strikers would interchange positions and run the channels like a regular striker would.

And to colour the discussion somewhat, here's what it says about 4231:

4-2-3-1
4-2-3-1 Formation

This formation is widely used by Spanish and French sides: it is a defensive formation which is quite flexible, as both the side midfielders and the fullbacks may join the attack, usually on the counter. In defence, this formation is similar to the 4-5-1. It is used to maintain possession of the ball and stopping opponent attacks by controlling the midfield area of the field. The lone striker may be very tall and strong to hold the ball up as his midfielders and fullbacks join him in attack. The striker could also be very fast. In these cases, the opponent's defence will be forced to fall back early, thereby leaving space for the offensive central midfielder. This formation is used especially when a playmaker is to be highlighted.

This formation is also currently used by Brazil as an alternative to the 4-2-4 formation of late 50's to 1970. Implemented similarly to how original 4-2-4 was used back then, use of this formation in this manner is very offensive, creating a 6-man attack and a six-man defence tactical layout. The front 4 attackers are composed as wide forwards and playmaker forward in support of a target striker in front.
 
I think it largely depends on how Gerrard's role takes shape.

For all the pedantry about how we don't play with wingers, rather wide forwards or whatever, our wide men are expected to do a lot of defensive work for the team.

With no real restrictions out wide, we can line up in a 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, 4-4-1-1 or 4-3-3.

The deciding factor for me will be whether Gerrard is viewed as a forward or a midfielder.
 
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924850#msg924850 date=1250346012]
For the hell of it, here's what Wikipedia says about 433:

4-3-3
4-3-3 Formation

The 4-3-3 was a development of the 4-2-4, and was played by the Brazilian national team in the 1962 World Cup. Quite simply, it is a more attacking 4-3-2-1. The extra player in midfield allows a stronger defence, and the midfield could be staggered for different effects. The three midfielders normally play closely together to protect the defence, and move laterally across the field as a coordinated unit. The three forwards split across the field to spread the attack, and may be expected to mark the opposition full-backs as opposed to doubling back to assist their own full-backs, as do the wide midfielders in a 4-4-2. When used from the start of a game, this formation is widely regarded as encouraging expansive play, and should not be confused with the practice of modifying a 4-4-2 by bringing on an extra forward to replace a midfield player when behind in the latter stages of a game.

A staggered 4-3-3 involving a defensive midfielder (usually numbered 4 or 6) and two attacking midfielders (numbered 8 and 10) was commonplace in Italy, Argentina and Uruguay during the 1960s and 1970s. The Italian variety of 4-3-3 was simply a modification of WM, by converting one of the two wing-halves to a libero (sweeper), whereas the Argentine and Uruguayan formations were derived from 2-3-5 and retained the notional attacking centre-half. The national team which made this famous was the Dutch team of the 1974 and 1978 World Cups, even though the team won neither.

In club football, the team that brought this formation to the forefront was the famous Ajax Amsterdam team of the early 1970s, which won three European Cups with Johan Cruyff. Most teams using this formation now use the specialist defensive midfielder; F.C. Barcelona are the most famous recent example.[7]

At the 2006 FIFA World Cup Spain and The Netherlands played both a variation of 4-3-3 without wingers. The three strikers would interchange positions and run the channels like a regular striker would.

And to colour the discussion somewhat, here's what it says about 4231:

4-2-3-1
4-2-3-1 Formation

This formation is widely used by Spanish and French sides: it is a defensive formation which is quite flexible, as both the side midfielders and the fullbacks may join the attack, usually on the counter. In defence, this formation is similar to the 4-5-1. It is used to maintain possession of the ball and stopping opponent attacks by controlling the midfield area of the field. The lone striker may be very tall and strong to hold the ball up as his midfielders and fullbacks join him in attack. The striker could also be very fast. In these cases, the opponent's defence will be forced to fall back early, thereby leaving space for the offensive central midfielder. This formation is used especially when a playmaker is to be highlighted.

This formation is also currently used by Brazil as an alternative to the 4-2-4 formation of late 50's to 1970. Implemented similarly to how original 4-2-4 was used back then, use of this formation in this manner is very offensive, creating a 6-man attack and a six-man defence tactical layout. The front 4 attackers are composed as wide forwards and playmaker forward in support of a target striker in front.
[/quote]

Thanks for clearing that up, Robin.
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=35248.msg924665#msg924665 date=1250323339]
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=35248.msg924633#msg924633 date=1250313786]
[quote author=robinhood link=topic=35248.msg924458#msg924458 date=1250268484]
--------------Torres
-Babel-----------------Benayoun
-----Aquilani------Gerrard
----------Mascherano
Insua Carragher Skrtel Johnson
----------------Reina
[/quote]

Drop in Kuyt for Benayoun and I think that's exactly how we'll try to line up against some of the smaller teams.

Aginst the bigger teams Acquilani will be dropped and Lucas will sit beside Mascherano with Gerrard moving to a central roll behind Torres.

The players we have fit in to this style very well. We don't use traditional wingers.
[/quote]

Aquilani - Rafa's biggest signing of the Summer and who could end up being our costliest player ever - dropped for the bigger games ?! WTF ! Back to the drawing board Stevie !
[/quote]

Yet we all kinow Benitez will do it...
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=35248.msg924920#msg924920 date=1250353892]Thanks for clearing that up, Robin.
[/quote]

I thought you had something to say about it.

No?
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=35248.msg924856#msg924856 date=1250346658]
The deciding factor for me will be whether Gerrard is viewed as a forward or a midfielder.
[/quote]

That, and how deep Aquilani is.
 
It's hard to remember the last thing Robin got right.

By and large we'll play the same system as we did last year.
 
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