Villarreal Want Liverpool Winger Albert Riera

[Skullflower]

[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=39289.msg1069314#msg1069314 date=1268611352]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069297#msg1069297 date=1268610226]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=39289.msg1069295#msg1069295 date=1268610069]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=39289.msg1069114#msg1069114 date=1268566244]
he's worth more than that.
[/quote]

Regardless of how weak the British pound is, he is not worth more than six million of them. Sell Sell Sell
[/quote]

He's a Spanish International mate. He's worth at least 6M.
[/quote]

Ryan hes a third choice Spanish international who probably wont be in South Africa. If we are offered 6million ( which I doubt) we should take hand and all
[/quote]

you need to fucking chill out. there would be many many clubs in for riera at that price.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Correct

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39289.msg1069312#msg1069312 date=1268611341]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069310#msg1069310 date=1268611169]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39289.msg1069308#msg1069308 date=1268611074]
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=39289.msg1069300#msg1069300 date=1268610496]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069297#msg1069297 date=1268610226]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=39289.msg1069295#msg1069295 date=1268610069]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=39289.msg1069114#msg1069114 date=1268566244]
he's worth more than that.
[/quote]

Regardless of how weak the British pound is, he is not worth more than six million of them. Sell Sell Sell
[/quote]

He's a Spanish International mate. He's worth at least 6M.
[/quote]

Fair enough but he hasn't made a significant enough contribution to warrant keeping if £6 million was offered.

If you were asked about Riera's Liverpool career, how could you summarise it really ??? *shrugs*
[/quote]

Started well then fell foul of the megalomanic in charge. End game.

[/quote]

So it's Rafa's fault is it?

Convenient.
[/quote]

It is Benitez' fault.

And no, it's not convenient. Riera was our best left winger.

[/quote]

Riera had a history of being difficult to manage, an attitude to accompany that, and inconsistency on the pitch before he joined us. Since he's been here *HEY FUCKING PRESTO* we've seen the same thing. Shocker.

Now, some players are capable of being managed out of the odd bout of petulance and attitudinal problems - Joe Cole, Carrick, Anelka. Others simply have their head too far up their own arse, like Riera. He's actually played himself out of his own position his attitude and performances have been that bad of late.

Now you can blame Rafa for this, but I'd prefer to lay the fault at Riera'a door, simply because Rafa has no problem controlling the rest of the squad, getting the very best out of some of them, and looking at Riera's past.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=39289.msg1069314#msg1069314 date=1268611352]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069297#msg1069297 date=1268610226]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=39289.msg1069295#msg1069295 date=1268610069]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=39289.msg1069114#msg1069114 date=1268566244]
he's worth more than that.
[/quote]

Regardless of how weak the British pound is, he is not worth more than six million of them. Sell Sell Sell
[/quote]

He's a Spanish International mate. He's worth at least 6M.
[/quote]

Ryan hes a third choice Spanish international who probably wont be in South Africa. If we are offered 6million ( which I doubt) we should take hand and all
[/quote]

There would be a fucking queue of clubs offering 6M for him.

 

[MaBigTip]

Ryan who exactly on our team does Rafa get the very best out of?

I would give him Torres and Aurelio.



But yes Riera is worth more than 6 million. And I wouldn't be willing to sell him at that price. There are two moment of brilliance Riera provided for us last year that I remember fondly. The volley against I believe Aston Villa off of Reina's long punt and his 25-30 yard effort against PSV (I think). Both were outstanding and there are a few reasons I wish Rafa had persisted with him this year instead of giving him the Keane treatment*. These are his big frame(set pieces), the defensive solidity he gives our left, his ability to hold possession, the natural balance he adds to our team and most importantly our team plays much much better with him in it than the other options we have there.


*The player is mistrusted and then has to prove themselves, instead of Rafa trusting a player and asking them to vindicate that trust.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Assulin link=topic=39289.msg1069347#msg1069347 date=1268615061]
Ryan who exactly on our team does Rafa get the very best out of?

I would give him Torres and Aurelio.

[/quote]

These guys have played the best football of their career under Rafa. That's no coincidence.

Reina, Arbeloa, Carragher, Gerrard, Mascherano, Alonso, Torres, Kuyt. You could argue one or two others as well.

He's also brought younsgters into the team who have improved considerably since their first games; Insua, Lucas, N'Gog, Skrtel, etc.

 

[MaBigTip]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069352#msg1069352 date=1268616364]
These guys have played the best football of their career under Rafa. That's no coincidence.

Reina, Arbeloa, Carragher, Gerrard, Mascherano, Alonso, Torres, Kuyt. You could argue one or two others as well.

He's also brought younsgters into the team who have improved considerably since their first games; Insua, Lucas, N'Gog, Skrtel, etc.
[/quote]

I'm sorry if I don't give Rafa all the credit for some of those players maturing naturally due to age. Or that Lucas has turned from an inspiring AM to 1 assist 0 goal DM who has been part of 15 losses this year. Kuyt is now an pushed out wide limited in necessary talents for the position winger as opposed to a 20 goal a year striker. There are just as many if not more players that he has sold that have gone on to improve their career or at least return to very good form.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Assulin link=topic=39289.msg1069369#msg1069369 date=1268623371]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069352#msg1069352 date=1268616364]
These guys have played the best football of their career under Rafa. That's no coincidence.

Reina, Arbeloa, Carragher, Gerrard, Mascherano, Alonso, Torres, Kuyt. You could argue one or two others as well.

He's also brought younsgters into the team who have improved considerably since their first games; Insua, Lucas, N'Gog, Skrtel, etc.
[/quote]

There are just as many if not more players that he has sold that have gone on to improve their career or at least return to very good form.
[/quote]

Alright then, name 8 or more of these players.

 

[Squiggles]

Riera is worth 8-10M of anyone's money.

I'd sooner keep him, TBH - but if we're going to get someone like Turan in then fair enough, he goes.

 

[DHSC]

Wouldn't mind selling him if we're going to use the funds to get someone better in. I hold my breath though.

 

[Farkmaster]

Ryan, how is it fair that if someone suggests something is going on behind the scenes with Rafa, you say it's not substantiated, and you dismiss it, whereas the second you hear a rumored explanation for why Riera is not selected, you are more than willing to accept it as fact?

It's very fair to deduce there has been a falling out with Riera, but whether it's fair, and whose fault it is, is another thing entirely. Riera hasn't been a bitch in the press, he's looked overeager to impress at times, he's had a shit year with injuries, and he has all of a sudden not been selected very much when available, despite the fact that those playing ahead of him (Yossi on the left, Maxi, Babel) haven't covered themselves in a bit of glory, and Babel especially has at times shown little to no effort.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39289.msg1069382#msg1069382 date=1268626865]
Ryan, how is it fair that if someone suggests something is going on behind the scenes with Rafa, you say it's not substantiated, and you dismiss it, whereas the second you hear a rumored explanation for why Riera is not selected, you are more than willing to accept it as fact?

Erm, I think I've made it pretty clear that I think something has gone on behind the scenes with he and Rafa.

It's very fair to deduce there has been a falling out with Riera, but whether it's fair, and whose fault it is, is another thing entirely. Riera hasn't been a bitch in the press, he's looked overeager to impress at times, he's had a shit year with injuries, and he has all of a sudden not been selected very much when available, despite the fact that those playing ahead of him (Yossi on the left, Maxi, Babel) haven't covered themselves in a bit of glory, and Babel especially has at times shown little to no effort.

He's played plenty of games this season, and been distinctly underwhelming. Even several weeks back he was handed the LW slot again, only to make such a bad fist at it against Blackburn that Rafa didn't even include him in his squad for the next 3 games. Sure there have been other factors - injuries, and the like - but he's played fucking shit off his own back Fark, and one would have presumed that with this being a World Cup year, he'd have been keen to impress.
[/quote]

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069320#msg1069320 date=1268612501]
Riera had a history of being difficult to manage, an attitude to accompany that, and inconsistency on the pitch before he joined us. Since he's been here *HEY FUCKING PRESTO* we've seen the same thing. Shocker.

Now, some players are capable of being managed out of the odd bout of petulance and attitudinal problems - Joe Cole, Carrick, Anelka. Others simply have their head too far up their own arse, like Riera. He's actually played himself out of his own position his attitude and performances have been that bad of late.

Now you can blame Rafa for this, but I'd prefer to lay the fault at Riera'a door, simply because Rafa has no problem controlling the rest of the squad, getting the very best out of some of them, and looking at Riera's past.
[/quote]

This is what I'm referring to, more the fact that you "prefer to lay the fault" at Riera's door. He hasn't been mouthing off in the press, he hasn't made a big deal out of not being involved, Babel was preferred to him at the beginning of the season, and even though it was a world cup year, Babel was awful there. You say that he's played himself out of his position, but he barely played, came back into the squad, seemed to add something, then the first time he fucked up, after a long period of injury, he was out. Those players preferred to him have played shit in the position as well.

We know that Riera is capable of playing there, because he has in the past. Babel has rarely looked good there, has often been a complete nonfactor, same with Yossi.

Rafa will tolerate the shit play of other players, but not this one, who he has happened to have a falling out with, and you casually just claim the blame rests with Riera, because you would "prefer to". It just seems to me a logical inconsistency, when you've spent considerable time rebutting what is equally unfounded attribution of blame on Rafa.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39289.msg1069387#msg1069387 date=1268628022]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069320#msg1069320 date=1268612501]
Riera had a history of being difficult to manage, an attitude to accompany that, and inconsistency on the pitch before he joined us. Since he's been here *HEY FUCKING PRESTO* we've seen the same thing. Shocker.

Now, some players are capable of being managed out of the odd bout of petulance and attitudinal problems - Joe Cole, Carrick, Anelka. Others simply have their head too far up their own arse, like Riera. He's actually played himself out of his own position his attitude and performances have been that bad of late.

Now you can blame Rafa for this, but I'd prefer to lay the fault at Riera'a door, simply because Rafa has no problem controlling the rest of the squad, getting the very best out of some of them, and looking at Riera's past.
[/quote]

This is what I'm referring to, more the fact that you "prefer to lay the fault" at Riera's door. He hasn't been mouthing off in the press, he hasn't made a big deal out of not being involved, Babel was preferred to him at the beginning of the season, and even though it was a world cup year, Babel was awful there. You say that he's played himself out of his position, but he barely played, came back into the squad, seemed to add something, then the first time he fucked up, after a long period of injury, he was out. Those players preferred to him have played shit in the position as well.

We know that Riera is capable of playing there, because he has in the past. Babel has rarely looked good there, has often been a complete nonfactor, same with Yossi.

Rafa will tolerate the shit play of other players, but not this one, who he has happened to have a falling out with, and you casually just claim the blame rests with Riera, because you would "prefer to". It just seems to me a logical inconsistency, when you've spent considerable time rebutting what is equally unfounded attribution of blame on Rafa.
[/quote]

Erm, I think you're pressing for something that's not really there Fark.

Let's clear up one thing - I don't really rate Babel, and the option of having Benayoun on the left doesn't flood my pants either. Riera's our best left-wing option. Insua is also our best left-back option currently, but that doesn't mean I want to see him there for the rest of my fucking life either.

With ability, comes the onus on the player to actually apply it and himself. Something Albert's not done this season. He's played 17 games and has been largely abysmal Fark. Not one goal, and quite honestly I can't think of anything he's provided of note. At some stage, somewhere, the player has to take responsibility. He's first choice left midfielder for one of the biggest clubs in the World, and he's getting hauled off after 50 minutes against Blackburn at home and not being included for the next 3 squads. That's not Rafa's fault as far as I'm concerned.

EDIT: Have a look at the Riera thread from Friday after the Lille game. I think I was the only person in about 30 replies to give him the benefit of the doubt and some leeway after his largely inept 20 minute cameo. I've nothing really against him to be honest.

 

[Fallon]

It amazes me how many people seem to forget about a little thing called 'match fit'.

 

[Wizardry]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069320#msg1069320 date=1268612501]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39289.msg1069312#msg1069312 date=1268611341]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069310#msg1069310 date=1268611169]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39289.msg1069308#msg1069308 date=1268611074]
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=39289.msg1069300#msg1069300 date=1268610496]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069297#msg1069297 date=1268610226]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=39289.msg1069295#msg1069295 date=1268610069]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=39289.msg1069114#msg1069114 date=1268566244]
he's worth more than that.
[/quote]

Regardless of how weak the British pound is, he is not worth more than six million of them. Sell Sell Sell
[/quote]

He's a Spanish International mate. He's worth at least 6M.
[/quote]

Fair enough but he hasn't made a significant enough contribution to warrant keeping if £6 million was offered.

If you were asked about Riera's Liverpool career, how could you summarise it really ??? *shrugs*
[/quote]

Started well then fell foul of the megalomanic in charge. End game.

[/quote]

So it's Rafa's fault is it?

Convenient.
[/quote]

It is Benitez' fault.

And no, it's not convenient. Riera was our best left winger.

[/quote]

Riera had a history of being difficult to manage, an attitude to accompany that, and inconsistency on the pitch before he joined us. Since he's been here *HEY FUCKING PRESTO* we've seen the same thing. Shocker.

Now, some players are capable of being managed out of the odd bout of petulance and attitudinal problems - Joe Cole, Carrick, Anelka. Others simply have their head too far up their own arse, like Riera. He's actually played himself out of his own position his attitude and performances have been that bad of late.

Now you can blame Rafa for this, but I'd prefer to lay the fault at Riera'a door, simply because Rafa has no problem controlling the rest of the squad, getting the very best out of some of them, and looking at Riera's past.

[/quote]

We'll move onto your next post in a moment, mate.

Just let me get this straight; you insist that Riera is worth at least 6m as a 28 year old left winger then defend the fact Rafa isn't playing him by pointing out he's a problem child with serious issues off the pitch, inconsistency on the pitch and currently playing himself out of a position in a horribly underperforming team in England. But he's still worth more than 6m???

??? ???

 

[Wizardry]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069352#msg1069352 date=1268616364]

These guys have played the best football of their career under Rafa. That's no coincidence.

Reina, Arbeloa, Carragher, Gerrard, Mascherano, Alonso, Torres, Kuyt. You could argue one or two others as well.

He's also brought younsgters into the team who have improved considerably since their first games; Insua, Lucas, N'Gog, Skrtel, etc.
[/quote]

Reina, Carragher and Gerrard; two of them outstanding talents in world football who came under Rafa's management just as they were maturing into the best years of their career - but it's a tribute to Rafa they've improved?? Carra has improved under Rafa and it's difficult to say how much Rafa helped him but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Mascher, Alonso, Torres; all three are reputed superstars and internationals when they join under Rafa and he pays top dollar for them at that. All three have continued to do exactly what they were doing before joining Liverpool. Torres was scoring goals for us while Rafa was still introducing himself so how you can credit Rafa with that improvement is startling.

Kuyt, Lucas and N'Gog are worthy of argument but you can have them.

Skrtel, if anything, has gone backwards here while Insua has looked worse and worse the longer Rafa has had him full time.


I'm now convinced you're doing this just to add humour to the site. 🙂

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069390#msg1069390 date=1268628780]
Erm, I think you're pressing for something that's not really there Fark.
[/quote]

Yea, perhaps so. The sad thing is the whole argument, given that none of the options we have have really made any significant argument for their inclusion.

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=39289.msg1069401#msg1069401 date=1268636205]
Mascher, Alonso, Torres; all three are reputed superstars and internationals when they join under Rafa and he pays top dollar for them at that.

None of the three were superstars, Mascherano was the one that had the most known value, and was succeeding within the league.

All three have continued to do exactly what they were doing before joining Liverpool.

Torres' value has skyrocketed, his goal return has skyrocketed, his profile in world football has exploded.

Torres was scoring goals for us while Rafa was still introducing himself so how you can credit Rafa with that improvement is startling.

What? He joined years later.
[/quote]

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=39289.msg1069401#msg1069401 date=1268636205]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069352#msg1069352 date=1268616364]

These guys have played the best football of their career under Rafa. That's no coincidence.

Reina, Arbeloa, Carragher, Gerrard, Mascherano, Alonso, Torres, Kuyt. You could argue one or two others as well.

He's also brought younsgters into the team who have improved considerably since their first games; Insua, Lucas, N'Gog, Skrtel, etc.
[/quote]

Reina, Carragher and Gerrard; two of them outstanding talents in world football who came under Rafa's management just as they were maturing into the best years of their career - but it's a tribute to Rafa they've improved?? Carra has improved under Rafa and it's difficult to say how much Rafa helped him but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Mascher, Alonso, Torres; all three are reputed superstars and internationals when they join under Rafa and he pays top dollar for them at that. All three have continued to do exactly what they were doing before joining Liverpool. Torres was scoring goals for us while Rafa was still introducing himself so how you can credit Rafa with that improvement is startling.

Kuyt, Lucas and N'Gog are worthy of argument but you can have them.

Skrtel, if anything, has gone backwards here while Insua has looked worse and worse the longer Rafa has had him full time.


I'm now convinced you're doing this just to add humour to the site. 🙂
[/quote]

so in short rafa gets no credit for a player's improvement but all the blame when the player goes backwards?
far as I can see rafa is responsible for playing carra week in week out at center back, is responsible for playing gerrard as a forward and is responsible for playing torres as a out and out striker. all 'gimmes' and yet not one of their former managers did this.

I'm the first to moan at rafa for the stagnation of a player but I definately think he deserves praise for his successes.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=39289.msg1069401#msg1069401 date=1268636205]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069352#msg1069352 date=1268616364]

These guys have played the best football of their career under Rafa. That's no coincidence.

Reina, Arbeloa, Carragher, Gerrard, Mascherano, Alonso, Torres, Kuyt. You could argue one or two others as well.

He's also brought younsgters into the team who have improved considerably since their first games; Insua, Lucas, N'Gog, Skrtel, etc.
[/quote]

Reina, Carragher and Gerrard; two of them outstanding talents in world football who came under Rafa's management just as they were maturing into the best years of their career - but it's a tribute to Rafa they've improved?? Carra has improved under Rafa and it's difficult to say how much Rafa helped him but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Mascher, Alonso, Torres; all three are reputed superstars and internationals when they join under Rafa and he pays top dollar for them at that. All three have continued to do exactly what they were doing before joining Liverpool. Torres was scoring goals for us while Rafa was still introducing himself so how you can credit Rafa with that improvement is startling.

Kuyt, Lucas and N'Gog are worthy of argument but you can have them.

Skrtel, if anything, has gone backwards here while Insua has looked worse and worse the longer Rafa has had him full time.


I'm now convinced you're doing this just to add humour to the site. 🙂
[/quote]

Wizardry; the question was/is "Who has Rafa got the best out of?" The question isn't "Do you attribute Fernando Torres' success to Rafa?" just whether the afore-mentioned players have played their best under Rafa.

Carragher and Gerrard have both admitted Rafa this to be true. When was Gerrard scoring 20 goals under Houllier?
"Torres was doing exactly what he was doing before he joined us" - Sorry you'll have to point out the 30 goals a season he was scoring at Atletico for me.
Mascherano? Why didn't Barca want him when he was in the west Ham reserves? If reports are to be believed both they and Man City have had 30M offers turned down. What's this off the back of, the same form that he showed at River Plate? Do me a favour.
And Alonso. Seriously. Are you taking the fucking piss? Why wasn't he in the Spnaish team at Sociedad? Why weren't Madrid throwing 30M at him then?

Read the question again mate, and have a think about it.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=39289.msg1069399#msg1069399 date=1268635572]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069320#msg1069320 date=1268612501]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39289.msg1069312#msg1069312 date=1268611341]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069310#msg1069310 date=1268611169]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39289.msg1069308#msg1069308 date=1268611074]
[quote author=franklyfrank link=topic=39289.msg1069300#msg1069300 date=1268610496]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069297#msg1069297 date=1268610226]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=39289.msg1069295#msg1069295 date=1268610069]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=39289.msg1069114#msg1069114 date=1268566244]
he's worth more than that.
[/quote]

Regardless of how weak the British pound is, he is not worth more than six million of them. Sell Sell Sell
[/quote]

He's a Spanish International mate. He's worth at least 6M.
[/quote]

Fair enough but he hasn't made a significant enough contribution to warrant keeping if £6 million was offered.

If you were asked about Riera's Liverpool career, how could you summarise it really ??? *shrugs*
[/quote]

Started well then fell foul of the megalomanic in charge. End game.

[/quote]

So it's Rafa's fault is it?

Convenient.
[/quote]

It is Benitez' fault.

And no, it's not convenient. Riera was our best left winger.

[/quote]

Riera had a history of being difficult to manage, an attitude to accompany that, and inconsistency on the pitch before he joined us. Since he's been here *HEY FUCKING PRESTO* we've seen the same thing. Shocker.

Now, some players are capable of being managed out of the odd bout of petulance and attitudinal problems - Joe Cole, Carrick, Anelka. Others simply have their head too far up their own arse, like Riera. He's actually played himself out of his own position his attitude and performances have been that bad of late.

Now you can blame Rafa for this, but I'd prefer to lay the fault at Riera'a door, simply because Rafa has no problem controlling the rest of the squad, getting the very best out of some of them, and looking at Riera's past.

[/quote]

We'll move onto your next post in a moment, mate.

Just let me get this straight; you insist that Riera is worth at least 6m as a 28 year old left winger then defend the fact Rafa isn't playing him by pointing out he's a problem child with serious issues off the pitch, inconsistency on the pitch and currently playing himself out of a position in a horribly underperforming team in England. But he's still worth more than 6m???

??? ???
[/quote]

He's been shite this season when he's played, but he's a Spanish International and can still play mate. I've never argued against that.

Plenty of clubs would be interested in him at 6M.

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=39289.msg1069401#msg1069401 date=1268636205]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069352#msg1069352 date=1268616364]

These guys have played the best football of their career under Rafa. That's no coincidence.

Reina, Arbeloa, Carragher, Gerrard, Mascherano, Alonso, Torres, Kuyt. You could argue one or two others as well.

He's also brought younsgters into the team who have improved considerably since their first games; Insua, Lucas, N'Gog, Skrtel, etc.
[/quote]

Reina, Carragher and Gerrard; two of them outstanding talents in world football who came under Rafa's management just as they were maturing into the best years of their career - but it's a tribute to Rafa they've improved?? Carra has improved under Rafa and it's difficult to say how much Rafa helped him but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Mascher, Alonso, Torres; all three are reputed superstars and internationals when they join under Rafa and he pays top dollar for them at that. All three have continued to do exactly what they were doing before joining Liverpool. Torres was scoring goals for us while Rafa was still introducing himself so how you can credit Rafa with that improvement is startling.

Kuyt, Lucas and N'Gog are worthy of argument but you can have them.

Skrtel, if anything, has gone backwards here while Insua has looked worse and worse the longer Rafa has had him full time.


I'm now convinced you're doing this just to add humour to the site. 🙂
[/quote]

I can see where you're coming from Wiz but to suggest that Rafa hasn't improved Torres is a bit dismissive. He was never a particularly prolific goal scorer in Spain and yet has scored freely under Rafa.

Now, a part of that could be the Premiership being better suited to his game, but you can't simply ignore the effect Rafa has had on him. Torres himself has credited Rafa with improving his game and educating him on how best to play the defenders and goalkeepers in this league.

I think this just proves that Rafa's failures are beginning to tarnish his successes among fans. Which is a shame really.

 

[Biggus Dickus]

[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=39289.msg1069158#msg1069158 date=1268580342]
put it this way. if the stupid fuck got himself kidnapped by somali pirates, do you think we would pay a 6 million ransom for him? if benitez had a fucking spine he'd shrug his shoulders and say keep the bastard, i don't need him
[/quote]

Fuck that we'd leave him to be tortured to death and claim the insurance.

 

[Skullflower]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39289.msg1069374#msg1069374 date=1268624647]
Riera is worth 8-10M of anyone's money.

I'd sooner keep him, TBH - but if we're going to get someone like Turan in then fair enough, he goes.
[/quote]

i want a new winger. i'm unsure who i want to be sold ,though.

babel
yossi
riera

who goes?

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069390#msg1069390 date=1268628780]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39289.msg1069387#msg1069387 date=1268628022]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069320#msg1069320 date=1268612501]
Riera had a history of being difficult to manage, an attitude to accompany that, and inconsistency on the pitch before he joined us. Since he's been here *HEY FUCKING PRESTO* we've seen the same thing. Shocker.

Now, some players are capable of being managed out of the odd bout of petulance and attitudinal problems - Joe Cole, Carrick, Anelka. Others simply have their head too far up their own arse, like Riera. He's actually played himself out of his own position his attitude and performances have been that bad of late.

Now you can blame Rafa for this, but I'd prefer to lay the fault at Riera'a door, simply because Rafa has no problem controlling the rest of the squad, getting the very best out of some of them, and looking at Riera's past.
[/quote]

This is what I'm referring to, more the fact that you "prefer to lay the fault" at Riera's door. He hasn't been mouthing off in the press, he hasn't made a big deal out of not being involved, Babel was preferred to him at the beginning of the season, and even though it was a world cup year, Babel was awful there. You say that he's played himself out of his position, but he barely played, came back into the squad, seemed to add something, then the first time he fucked up, after a long period of injury, he was out. Those players preferred to him have played shit in the position as well.

We know that Riera is capable of playing there, because he has in the past. Babel has rarely looked good there, has often been a complete nonfactor, same with Yossi.

Rafa will tolerate the shit play of other players, but not this one, who he has happened to have a falling out with, and you casually just claim the blame rests with Riera, because you would "prefer to". It just seems to me a logical inconsistency, when you've spent considerable time rebutting what is equally unfounded attribution of blame on Rafa.
[/quote]

Erm, I think you're pressing for something that's not really there Fark.

Let's clear up one thing - I don't really rate Babel, and the option of having Benayoun on the left doesn't flood my pants either. Riera's our best left-wing option. Insua is also our best left-back option currently, but that doesn't mean I want to see him there for the rest of my fucking life either.

With ability, comes the onus on the player to actually apply it and himself. Something Albert's not done this season. He's played 17 games and has been largely abysmal Fark. Not one goal, and quite honestly I can't think of anything he's provided of note. At some stage, somewhere, the player has to take responsibility. He's first choice left midfielder for one of the biggest clubs in the World, and he's getting hauled off after 50 minutes against Blackburn at home and not being included for the next 3 squads. That's not Rafa's fault as far as I'm concerned.

EDIT: Have a look at the Riera thread from Friday after the Lille game. I think I was the only person in about 30 replies to give him the benefit of the doubt and some leeway after his largely inept 20 minute cameo. I've nothing really against him to be honest.
[/quote]

This you can stick to the majority of our socalled attacking players. We dont attack as a team... These days it looks like we dont priority the attacking part of the game at all. All we strive for is to have control of matches and limit the oppositions chances. Even against Wigan, a team that have let in 53 goals this season, we didnt force one decent save out of their goalie.... This doesnt go down to one and one indicvidual. This goes down to the team attitude and the game plan. We dont put players forward to support whoever is picked for the lone striker role, and we seem to find it ok if we generally are ok with it as long as we have "control" of the rest of the pitch... Left winger? Who the hell are we fooling. We dont need a left winger. We need a left side midfielder willing to cover our left back for 70-80 mins.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=39289.msg1069455#msg1069455 date=1268646488]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39289.msg1069374#msg1069374 date=1268624647]
Riera is worth 8-10M of anyone's money.

I'd sooner keep him, TBH - but if we're going to get someone like Turan in then fair enough, he goes.
[/quote]

i want a new winger. i'm unsure who i want to be sold ,though.

babel
yossi
riera

who goes?
[/quote]
Everyone?

Can we get our hands on the likes of Arda Turan, Christian Eriksen, Joe Cole and maybe even this Eden Hazard bloke (we've got a history of buying talents that have played well against us haven't we) then I'd be tempted to make whole-sale changes in attack.

Actaully if ChL isn't secured I'll be keeping my fingers firmly crossed that's indeed what's happening.

For whatever reason Riera isn't stabile enough. Same goes with Benayoun whom for his good games now and then has got a tendency to out of them completely for far to long spells.

Babel is Babel and I haven't quiet given up on him yet but if he's got what it takes for us to get Arda on our hands we probably should go for that.

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=the_khl link=topic=39289.msg1069531#msg1069531 date=1268654611]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=39289.msg1069455#msg1069455 date=1268646488]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=39289.msg1069374#msg1069374 date=1268624647]
Riera is worth 8-10M of anyone's money.

I'd sooner keep him, TBH - but if we're going to get someone like Turan in then fair enough, he goes.
[/quote]

i want a new winger. i'm unsure who i want to be sold ,though.

babel
yossi
riera

who goes?
[/quote]
Everyone?

Can we get our hands on the likes of Arda Turan, Christian Eriksen, Joe Cole and maybe even this Eden Hazard bloke (we've got a history of buying talents that have played well against us haven't we) then I'd be tempted to make whole-sale changes in attack.

Actaully if ChL isn't secured I'll be keeping my fingers firmly crossed that's indeed what's happening.

For whatever reason Riera isn't stabile enough. Same goes with Benayoun whom for his good games now and then has got a tendency to out of them completely for far to long spells.

Babel is Babel and I haven't quiet given up on him yet but if he's got what it takes for us to get Arda on our hands we probably should go for that.
[/quote]

I think the reason people dont give up on Babel is down to all the shit performances various guys have on the left "wing" making us all believe that a little pace and power could actually do out there....

 

[the_khl]

..and I personally like the fact that he's not affraid of shooting when in position. And he's quite good at it too.

Which can't be said really about anyone else on the wings these days from Kuyt to Maxi to Benayoun to Riera. Even Gerrard struggles in that department.

 

[MaBigTip]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39289.msg1069370#msg1069370 date=1268623830]
Alright then, name 8 or more of these players.
[/quote]

I did it awhile back and I am in the Library on a short break so I'm not gonna try and find em all again but to name a few:

Bellamy
Sissoko
Crouch
Keane
Kewell
Riise
Hammil

off the top of my head. Yeah its a very subjective topic but if you go through a lot of his sell list you'll find players other managers have utilised better and/or have had resurgences.