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Tottenham Riots

Yeah, anyway, RIP to the three dead young men in Birmingham.
Just spent the last hour watching local news.

Totally totally heartbreaking.

Looks like the person that ran them over was black and that some of the Birmingham Asian comunity are looking to take revenge.

I truly hope not.

I see myself as lucky, that I grew up with, and went to school with, people of, Indian, Pakistani, Ukrainian, Polish, Chinese, Greek and Bangladeshi (amongst others) origin.

It breaks my heart to think that this utter madness could lead to us all turning on each other.

Once again RIP to those young men in Birmingham who lost their lives last night.

RIP
YNWA
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=46360.msg1377552#msg1377552 date=1313001117]
There is no evidence at all these guys on bikes were rioters nor that were causing any trouble.

[/quote] How do you know?
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=46360.msg1377552#msg1377552 date=1313001117]
There is no evidence at all these guys on bikes were rioters nor that were causing any trouble.
As gene said in a court, based on these images they could get a fortune
[/quote]

No evidence based on a iphone you tube clip Lech.

regards
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=46360.msg1377549#msg1377549 date=1313000923]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=46360.msg1377544#msg1377544 date=1313000509]
That kid will probably make a fortune out of this now so I don't see it as in any way a wise approach.
[/quote]

I don't think the Home office , Home secretary , DPP or CPS will be in a very sympathetic on this Gene, particularly when the phrase hardline was used by the PM, that and the public mood here at the minute.


regards
[/quote]

Vlad none of those have any say if the lad chooses to pursue compensation through the courts and in a democratic system, the application of the law has nothing to do with the public mood.

I'm not saying the lad deserves to get a huge lob of taxpayer's money but I'd be amazed if it doesn't happen.
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=46360.msg1377554#msg1377554 date=1313001202]
Yeah, anyway, RIP to the three dead young men in Birmingham.
Just spent the last hour watching local news.

Totally totally heartbreaking.

Looks like the person that ran them over was black and that some of the Birmingham Asian comunity are looking to take revenge.

I truly hope not.

I see myself as lucky, that I grew up with, and went to school with, people of, Indian, Pakistani, Ukrainian, Polish, Chinese, Greek and Bangladeshi (amongst others) origin.

It breaks my heart to think that this utter madness could lead to us all turning on each other.

Once again RIP to those young men in Birmingham who lost their lives last night.

RIP
YNWA
[/quote]

That is bad news T. I have always thought the tensions between some black and asian communities always have been strained, a little more even that black and white

regards
 
[quote author=Le Chacal link=topic=46360.msg1377552#msg1377552 date=1313001117]
There is no evidence at all these guys on bikes were rioters nor that were causing any trouble.
As gene said in a court, based on these images they could get a fortune
[/quote]

Prove they were real police. Prove it was in Manchester. Prove the bizzies can be identified. Prove we even exist. Go on, prove it.
 
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=46360.msg1377546#msg1377546 date=1313000618]
I forgot what I came back here for now, but I have just remembered.

In some ways - despite all this shit, which when the thick twats of Liverpool saw the thick twats in London and Birmingham getting rigged out in new clobber for free was fairly inevitable - I think I am actually more proud of the city than I was before.

Firstly, what we have had here has been very minor in all reality (OK it's not when it's your windows been bricked or your car torched), but our police seem to have been very on the ball and nipped it all in the bud, which pleases me. I hope we have seen an end to it.

What I am most proud of is the ordinary Liverpool people , the Toxteth residents that came out and tidied the streets up, the ones that slapped the sneaky media questions down about comparisons to '81, and who told the reporters it is nothing like '81 either in scale, or the reasons behind it, and how good the community relations were these days, from back then, ordinary people with no axe to grind....that cheered me up and gave me a warm feeling.

regards
[/quote]

This

Although part of me wanders if the good people in society should be cleaning up after the dregs.
 
It's all kicking off in Manchester with Canal Street ablaze. Police are on the scene with a fireman, construction worker, sailor and Red Indian.
 
[quote author=refugee link=topic=46360.msg1377566#msg1377566 date=1313001952]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=46360.msg1377546#msg1377546 date=1313000618]
I forgot what I came back here for now, but I have just remembered.

In some ways - despite all this shit, which when the thick twats of Liverpool saw the thick twats in London and Birmingham getting rigged out in new clobber for free was fairly inevitable - I think I am actually more proud of the city than I was before.

Firstly, what we have had here has been very minor in all reality (OK it's not when it's your windows been bricked or your car torched), but our police seem to have been very on the ball and nipped it all in the bud, which pleases me. I hope we have seen an end to it.

What I am most proud of is the ordinary Liverpool people , the Toxteth residents that came out and tidied the streets up, the ones that slapped the sneaky media questions down about comparisons to '81, and who told the reporters it is nothing like '81 either in scale, or the reasons behind it, and how good the community relations were these days, from back then, ordinary people with no axe to grind....that cheered me up and gave me a warm feeling.

regards
[/quote]

This

Although part of me wanders if the good people in society should be cleaning up after the dregs.
[/quote]

We've got Matrix though. Those loons were bound to crack a few heads. Heard they were driving their vans straight at the little scumbags last night. Nice one
 
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=46360.msg1377497#msg1377497 date=1312993844]
Isn't it HMRC who catch people not paying their tax?

The same HMRC who've had their budget cut?

Obviously the illegal ones should be punished, but I think the legal loopholes should be closed down as well.

Just because they make a lot of money it doesn't mean they should be let off - everybody plays their part in making money for the country and we all get shafted. If we're "all in this together" how comes it's people like Phillip Green that can get away with avoiding £300M whereas you and I just have to pay what we're told?
[/quote]

Yes I can certainly see that closing the legal loopholes would be a good idea but they have been around for many years now and have not been cut. Why is that? Because its easier said than done?

In terms of businesses, I would rather see a company base themselves in Britain and employ lots of people in Britain rather than hand large chunks of their profits straight to the treasury.

In terms of individuals as well as banks in general, my point was that you were saying how much they cost the country. You may be right but I'm not so sure that they do when you take into account how much revenue they bring in and how much tax they do pay on wages, bonuses and as consumers. Might that actually outweigh the tax that is avoided (a lot of which will of course be spent anyway and make its way to the treasury in the end)?

I don't like the idea that I have to pay tax whereas others can get away with it, any more than you like it, but I can see why they do avoid it and I don't blame them. They are not breaking the law and as I have said, if the tax rate was a lot lower they wouldn't bother doing it would they? Do you not see that there are potential advantages of letting people have more of their own money?
 
I was discussing this on an expats forum this morning & the consensus was that it probably would not have got so far in Spain, as the Guardia Civil (derived from Francos private army) would have finished their evening coffees & brandies, then kicked the shit out of everyone involved, close by or spectating. And it would have worked. Then they'd have had some more brandies.

This may seem extreme, but people here still have a grudging respect for them whereas they have none at all in the UK.
 
IMO there will be some kind of revenge type attacks in brum, Or at least a few morons gunning for it.
There have no doubt been issues simmering away since 2005.

The father of Haroon jahan asked people to remain calm and stand united.
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=46360.msg1377570#msg1377570 date=1313002160]
It's all kicking off in Manchester with Canal Street ablaze. Police are on the scene with a fireman, construction worker, sailor and Red Indian.
[/quote]

haha .. i get that joke.
 
Fuck, the looting is happening in wales now as well

images
 
Flippin heck, On the beeb.. The reporter is speaking to a woman on Salford and some tard jumps in front of the camera and says keep on rioting when asked why he says cos th polish and pakis coming over here takin our jobs!!
 
[quote author=Atlas link=topic=46360.msg1377612#msg1377612 date=1313007242]
Flippin heck, On the beeb.. The reporter is speaking to a woman on Salford and some tard jumps in front of the camera and says keep on rioting when asked why he says cos th polish and pakis coming over here takin our jobs!!

[/quote] And would he of taken one of the jobs the polish took if available? Doubt it..
 
A take on the riots in an Irish newspaper, by an Englishman:
The duty of journalists is to tell the truth. If we don't do that, it's the equivalent of a nurse comfortably chatting over a nice cup of tea while an empty saline drip feeds air into a patient's artery. The moment that we think it's more important to protect some comfortable ideological dogma is the moment when our particular patient, truth, begins to die. I take no pleasure in what follows; but there is a job to be done, so here goes.

Perhaps the most astounding element in the British television coverage of the riots over much of England has been the steadfast refusal to mention the race of most of the rioters. They are clearly, and overwhelmingly, Afro-Caribbean, the descendants of immigrants, though such has been the utter British failure to integrate so much of the immigrant population that many have retained something of a Caribbean accent. Admittedly, not all of the rioters are "black": clearly, some white youths have joined in.

But where they have not got race is common, they probably have another feature that joins them: absent father-figures. An astonishing number of young males in London are the sons of single mothers. They have been raised without the presence of a male authority figure to impose familial order, and furthermore and most vitally, to promote the patriarchy.

Contrary to what the feminist mantra of recent decades has proposed, the patriarchy was not invented to oppress woman, but devised by Abraham to control men. Adolescent males, without an imposed order, are as feral as chimpanzees. This is why all societies have adopted rigorous means of imposing authority on teenage boys, and which always requires male authority-figures: either sergeant-majors or patriarchs or that unfashionable thing, "dads".

But Britain, like Ireland, went down the insane path of encouraging single mothers to have children: indeed, both societies actually created additional incentives for unmarried women to reproduce. It is social lunacy, delinquency turned into state policy, to encourage women to bear a population of young males without fathers. Yet that is what our two islands have been doing in a weak-minded, abject capitulation to the feminist ideological dogma that men are really redundant in the family. Yet the statistics across the world show that the single mother is far more likely to raise a criminal, a thug or rapist, than the married mother. No fewer than 70pc of young offenders in Britain are from single-parent families. It is not mere "poverty" that produces the socially dysfunctional male, so much as father-free families.

Moreover, in all societies in the world where Afro-Caribbeans have settled, there is a problem with male teenage gang culture. That being the case -- for whatever reason -- it makes no sense whatever to "reward" single mothers of that background for having boys without a father-figure to control them. The facta are known: black children of single mothers are twice as likely to commit crime as black children with two parents. Nearly 60pc of London's Afro-Caribbean mothers are single. If the allure of the male hierarchy in a gang on the street proves irresistible, then ahead awaits social disaster.

There is a third element. Immigration: not of the parents or grandparents of the young males currently dismantling London and other cities, but more recent immigration, much of it white, that prevents young natives, of any ethnic background, getting jobs. There are some 10,000 unemployed in Tottenham -- though the moronic oxymoron term "jobseeker" is now the fashionable term to describe the unemployed. No doubt many want jobs -- for every job vacancy in Tottenham there are 54 applications -- but it is surely gilding the lily to describe every single dole-taker (whether he is in Britain or here) as someone really seeking employment. But that aside, in the past 10 years under the egregious and depraved policies of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, an already overcrowded Britain took in over two million immigrants. Where have the jobs gone? That's where.

Six years ago, I wrote a column for 'The Irish Times' about the riots then erupting across immigrant areas in France and Britain. Michael D Higgins TD issued a statement in which he said: "The contents of his column today go beyond his usually crafted cowardice, staying one step on the safe side of prosecution for incitement to hatred or racism."

"Usually crafted cowardice", eh? Is cowardice really a characteristic of my journalism? And that's before we even come to the delightful implication of racist intent. So, is it remotely surprising that we never had any proper discussion about immigration, if a future presidential candidate of this Republic could feel free to use such vile and actionable language about a critic of our immigration non-policies?

Immigration did not cause our collapse, but the refusal to create an immigration policy was an intellectual companion to our populist failure to control our banks. And no one can deny this unassailable truth: our unemployment figures have been made immeasurably worse by the large numbers of immigrants who poured unchecked into the Celtic Tiger economy. Finally, if you want to know what a combination of failed immigration and social policies can produce, why, just watch the TV news from London tonight.
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=46360.msg1377613#msg1377613 date=1313007384]
Calm down Asim.
[/quote]

hahaha
 
reply, ahhh well all seems quiet on the western front tonight I am going to get me an early night.

Well done Liverpool Plod in all this


regards
 
Liverpool's rioters seemed to be 200 fuckwads who were a bit bored of the TV.

I see G-Star got its windows smashed in in town. Clearly ideologically charged. It's because G Star use Somalian refugees to do their sewing, not that they're the brand of choice for utter fucking cunts.
 
That article that Ross posted was a real eye opener (not in a good way, I hasten to add) , and I consider myself one of the least PC people on here. Did that really get published? Aptart from the fact that it seemed massively flawed, I'm staggered anyone was mad enough to publish it
 
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=46360.msg1377506#msg1377506 date=1312994615]
[quote author=Krump link=topic=46360.msg1377486#msg1377486 date=1312992769]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46360.msg1377482#msg1377482 date=1312992339]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=46360.msg1377474#msg1377474 date=1312991638]

You haven't listened to a thing I've said, have you?

Admit it, you've ignored everything I've said. This isn't a conversation, you're just waiting to talk.

These are NOT *record amounts* of borrowing
[/quote]

To be fair to Krump though they are higher than they've been in the last 30 years and they're creeping up to above what the government considers a safe investment level of 60% GDP.
[/quote]

It's already 75% and it will be 100 in another year.

By the way SR, I'm sure you could dig up threads from the past year in which I've agreed with your stance. I'm not party political and there's loads of political and economic philosophy that I've been trying to digest at once over the past year. I'm still at it.
[/quote]

To be fair to me, I've never said things were good. I'm not trying to pretend everything is rosy - it's obviously not.

I'm just making the point the the rhetoric that has been used to justify the current political agenda "UNPRECEDENTED levels of debt!" is false, as is the narrative "The financial mess we've inherited as a result of the previous government's wanton spending" (untrue) - and that most importantly of all the proposed solution is only going to make things worse.

I know you've agreed in the past with me Krump, but it just gets frustrating when I explain how this is not record levels of debt and then people keep banging on about record levels of debt. Feels like banging your head against a brick wall.

FWIW I'm not party political either, I think they're all a bunch of corrupt lying cunts.

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=46360.msg1377488#msg1377488 date=1312992904]
[quote author=singlerider link=topic=46360.msg1377485#msg1377485 date=1312992656]

What this means is that - as counter-intuitive as it seems - when each of us as individuals are (wisely) spending less, the government should do the opposite to balance things out

[/quote]

OK. I understand that now but is there still not the danger that even if the government injects cash there's no guarantee individuals spending will increase....?
[/quote]

Well, there is a bit, but as long as people have jobs and that then they're going to be spending money on essentials at least and they won't be an active drain on the economy through benefits etc. Generally if the outlook is good, the economy is growing and confidence is high then people spend money - the circle goes the other way (although I don't know what you call the opposite of a vicious circle, a benevolent circle? Positive feedback loop perhaps or something).

The other solution - quantitative easing - relies on the banks lending out more money, as the money put into the economy is injected via buying bonds etc. As we've seen, that hasn't worked as the banks are hanging on to it themselves.

Jack - didn't mean to get personal (certainly not at you). Apologies.

Just making the point that the bankers (who got us into this mess) seem to think we owe them a bailout, bonuses and gawd knows what else
[/quote]

Debt per se isn't inherently good or bad. Borrowing money governments can't afford to pay back in order to fund social welfare that doesn't increase an economy's productivity is the grease on the slide pole to economic hell. Giving mortgages to people who can't possibly afford them in the name of artificially extending the "American dream" due to overbearing government pressure and then protesting when the banks have to get bailed out due to toxic mortgage assets bundled into risk products and sold to each other? Suicide.

Borrowing to fund growth and expansion is good, and has been done forever by both governments and the private sector.

And Lech -- the Tea Party is about trying to avoid becoming Greece or Iceland. Surely you've gleaned that in all the research you've done on their policy positions, since you aren't one to get sucked into propaganda.
 
Where to begin CT?

Firstly, the money borrowed to fund welfare can easily be paid back, but if we're talking a waste of money (and lives) then what about the 2 wars Bush started? They're costing the taxpayer far more money - or are they good because they make arms companies rich and drive down unemployment figures by killing off loads of young guys that might otherwise be sponging?

You think the banks respond to pressure from the government? You really think that's the way that relationship works? Banks wouldn't do shit the government wants - they lent the money because they thought they could make money out of it - and for a while they could, because the traders were going crazy over the bonds and the CDOs. It was suicide - that's about the only sensible thing you've ever said - but if you think it was driven by the government you're wrong. That's not to say they're utterly without reproach - poor regulation allowed the situation to develop, but it was of the banks making.

Finally - the Tea Party is not about preventing the US turning into Greece or Iceland, it's about making rich people even richer. There's a handy principle in trying to get to the bottom of this, which is 'follow the money' - but being as the Tea Party is such a rootin' tootin' bunch of good ol' boys and gals grassroots movement that'll just take you back to some working folk down south, right?


Well no, because it's not a grassroots movement, it's AstroTurf - funded by the Koch brothers (poorer only than Bill Gates and Warren Buffet in the States) to ensure that rich industrialists like them are taxed less, their companies undergo less legislation and their workers get less rights. Conversely (or should that be perversely) the poor folk that actually vote for them get the shitty end of the stick - but because they're A) stupid and B) easily manipulated by the likes of Fox News they support a movement that is inherently about fucking them in the arse and giving the breaks to the big guys.

But of course, you'd know that seeing as you don't get sucked in by propaganda
 
[quote author=vantage link=topic=46360.msg1377723#msg1377723 date=1313017452]
That article that Ross posted was a real eye opener (not in a good way, I hasten to add) , and I consider myself one of the least PC people on here. Did that really get published? Aptart from the fact that it seemed massively flawed, I'm staggered anyone was mad enough to publish it
[/quote]

Yup it did.

The thing is any Irish poster could guess who wrote it quite easily, he's known for this sort of stuff.
 
The guy is obviously the politcal equivalent of that mad bastard know-nothing you have doing the footie summarising, Dunphy is it? 2 minutes of him and all of a sudden John Barnes seems lucid.
 
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