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Torres Staying? Pepe thinks so.......

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[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=40355.msg1108346#msg1108346 date=1274710847]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=40355.msg1108332#msg1108332 date=1274709156]
In theory we could make a decent patchwork team if we are forced to sell some of our leading lights this summer. We could swap Mascher for Yaya Toure & Pedro, sell Torres & Gerrard to Chelsea for £90m and get Joe Cole for free and see if Drogba would leave for a 3 year contract at a knock down price (say £12m). All very hypothetical I know but we could approach the Blueshite with a £15m offer for Arteta, buy Arda Turan for a similar amount and £10m for a decent left back.

If you add in the sale of Yossi, Riera and please god lucas we would come out of it all with a surplus of about £60m and have a squad able to compete successfully for a top 4 place.
Click to expand...

I can't work out if this is supposed to be funny or not.
Perhaps it's satire?

I'm confused.
[/quote]

I think Pesam is too if he thinks there is any chance of Drogba coming to us.
[/quote]

Of course it hugely unlikely but IF Torres goes to Chelsea it might be worth a cheeky bid for Drogba because he might be deemed surplus to requirements given they just signed Torres and also have Anelka. Drogba of course would want CL football but if his contract was lucrative and long enough he might forego CL football for one season. Don't get too hung up on the names I've suggested though - my point is we could cobble together a decent team if we had to sell our leading lights but Rafa (if he's still in charge) will have to up his game considerably.
 
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=40355.msg1108330#msg1108330 date=1274708759]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=40355.msg1108317#msg1108317 date=1274706784]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40355.msg1108314#msg1108314 date=1274706630]
It's pretty obvious to me that we need to rebuild. Torres is not worth 70M to us because he is always injured. Gerrard was not a 30M player last season, and you have to question whether he will be again. These's no room for sentimentality if you're going to be smart in the markets. Selling Fowler after all was one of the best deals we've ever done.
[/quote]

But we already had Owen when we sold Fowler.

Who have we got to replace Torres? Or Gerrard? Eggnog? The Shithouse? Lucarse??

And let's not pretend that we have faith in Benitez buying the right players, because he very often doesn't.
[/quote]


Benitez buying the right players is the crux of the problem - I am still bemused that Rafa never tried to swap Xabi for Robben and Schneider (they left madrid shortly after Alonso signed for them and for about the same amount that Madrid paid us).

In theory we could make a decent patchwork team if we are forced to sell some of our leading lights this summer. We could swap Mascher for Yaya Toure & Pedro, sell Torres & Gerrard to Chelsea for £90m and get Joe Cole for free and see if Drogba would leave for a 3 year contract at a knock down price (say £12m). All very hypothetical I know but we could approach the Blueshite with a £15m offer for Arteta, buy Arda Turan for a similar amount and £10m for a decent left back.

If you add in the sale of Yossi, Riera and please god lucas we would come out of it all with a surplus of about £60m and have a squad able to compete successfully for a top 4 place.


Reina

Johnson Agger Skrtel £10m Left back

Cole Arteta Yaya Turan

Drogba Pedro


Subs
Kuyt
Babel
Carra
The Greek
Aquilani
Pacheco
maxi

It's all about wheelin' and dealin' but so few managers are actually adept at it.
[/quote]

lol why would drogba or pedro want to come to us? this wouldnt happen ever!
 
The best example I can think of is Inter of late. Of course Barca overpaid ridiculously for Ibra (and most think him overrated), but he was Inter's main man up front and they lost him for big bucks. He was replaced by Milito at a fraction of the cost (Eto's played wide all year) and he's improved them whilst scoring the important goals when it matters.

Given Torres' injury record, it's not a huge stretch of the imagination to suggest that, should we be able to spend his fee, we could buy two players that could improve us as an attacking unit.

Likewise, losing Gerrard (as much as it would pain me) for an inflated fee (for a 30 year old) would be good business should we pick up a Sneijder for less than 30m.

It can be done, but there's two risky variables;

1) How much of the transfer cash is made available to the manager
2) Who the manager is.

Given our situation I'd worry about both variables should we sell Torres, Gerrard etc.
 
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=40355.msg1108360#msg1108360 date=1274712088]
The best example I can think of is Inter of late. Of course Barca overpaid ridiculously for Ibra (and most think him overrated), but he was Inter's main man up front and they lost him for big bucks. He was replaced by Milito at a fraction of the cost (Eto's played wide all year) and he's improved them whilst scoring the important goals when it matters.

Given Torres' injury record, it's not a huge stretch of the imagination to suggest that, should we be able to spend his fee, we could buy two players that could improve us as an attacking unit.

Likewise, losing Gerrard (as much as it would pain me) for an inflated fee (for a 30 year old) would be good business should we pick up a Sneijder for less than 30m.

It can be done, but there's two risky variables;

1) How much of the transfer cash is made available to the manager
2) Who the manager is.

Given our situation I'd worry about both variables should we sell Torres, Gerrard etc.
[/quote] Exactly how I see it.
 
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=40355.msg1108360#msg1108360 date=1274712088]
The best example I can think of is Inter of late. Of course Barca overpaid ridiculously for Ibra (and most think him overrated), but he was Inter's main man up front and they lost him for big bucks. He was replaced by Milito at a fraction of the cost (Eto's played wide all year) and he's improved them whilst scoring the important goals when it matters.

Given Torres' injury record, it's not a huge stretch of the imagination to suggest that, should we be able to spend his fee, we could buy two players that could improve us as an attacking unit.

Likewise, losing Gerrard (as much as it would pain me) for an inflated fee (for a 30 year old) would be good business should we pick up a Sneijder for less than 30m.

It can be done, but there's two risky variables;

1) How much of the transfer cash is made available to the manager
2) Who the manager is.

Given our situation I'd worry about both variables should we sell Torres, Gerrard etc.
[/quote]

Well said, if we sell torres and gerrard and replace them with dzeko, higuain and sneijder then i cant say i would be too upset
 
Point is, no one can guarantee who would come in with the money, or indeed if anyone would. With Torres and Gerrard we know what we've got; two of the best players in the world.
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=40355.msg1108380#msg1108380 date=1274713219]
Point is, no one can guarantee who would come in with the money, or indeed if anyone would. With Torres and Gerrard we know what we've got; two of the best players in the world.
[/quote]

Yep.

I'd be gutted if we lost either and devastated if we lost both. Then I'd probably start hating football.
 
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=40355.msg1108355#msg1108355 date=1274711871]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=40355.msg1108330#msg1108330 date=1274708759]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=40355.msg1108317#msg1108317 date=1274706784]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40355.msg1108314#msg1108314 date=1274706630]
It's pretty obvious to me that we need to rebuild. Torres is not worth 70M to us because he is always injured. Gerrard was not a 30M player last season, and you have to question whether he will be again. These's no room for sentimentality if you're going to be smart in the markets. Selling Fowler after all was one of the best deals we've ever done.
[/quote]

But we already had Owen when we sold Fowler.

Who have we got to replace Torres? Or Gerrard? Eggnog? The Shithouse? Lucarse??

And let's not pretend that we have faith in Benitez buying the right players, because he very often doesn't.
[/quote]


Benitez buying the right players is the crux of the problem - I am still bemused that Rafa never tried to swap Xabi for Robben and Schneider (they left madrid shortly after Alonso signed for them and for about the same amount that Madrid paid us).

In theory we could make a decent patchwork team if we are forced to sell some of our leading lights this summer. We could swap Mascher for Yaya Toure & Pedro, sell Torres & Gerrard to Chelsea for £90m and get Joe Cole for free and see if Drogba would leave for a 3 year contract at a knock down price (say £12m). All very hypothetical I know but we could approach the Blueshite with a £15m offer for Arteta, buy Arda Turan for a similar amount and £10m for a decent left back.

If you add in the sale of Yossi, Riera and please god lucas we would come out of it all with a surplus of about £60m and have a squad able to compete successfully for a top 4 place.


Reina

Johnson Agger Skrtel £10m Left back

Cole Arteta Yaya Turan

Drogba Pedro


Subs
Kuyt
Babel
Carra
The Greek
Aquilani
Pacheco
maxi

It's all about wheelin' and dealin' but so few managers are actually adept at it.
[/quote]

lol why would drogba or pedro want to come to us? this wouldnt happen ever!
[/quote]

Look up the meaning of the words "speculative" and "hypothetical". Strange things happen in football, why would Torres and Pepe want to stay with LFC next season when they are the peak of their careers yet one almost certainly will and Torres might still.

Again, HYPOTHETICALLY Drogba being a player coming towards the end of his career might choose to spend his last 3 or 4 years at one of the World's most famous clubs rather than compete for playing time with Torres and conversely Pedro being so young might be willing to forego a season in the CL for a chance to play with LFC especially given that it seems that he will be a peripheral player for Barca next season.

For the last time, I used these players as an example and Robben/Schneider as an example last season of what bargains there are around and could be available, i am acutely aware how unlikely it is we get the players I mooted* (seems to be my word of the day) but as long as we sell Lucas and don't sign the talentless Ibra-him-ma-bitch.
 
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=40355.msg1108375#msg1108375 date=1274712864]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=40355.msg1108360#msg1108360 date=1274712088]
The best example I can think of is Inter of late. Of course Barca overpaid ridiculously for Ibra (and most think him overrated), but he was Inter's main man up front and they lost him for big bucks. He was replaced by Milito at a fraction of the cost (Eto's played wide all year) and he's improved them whilst scoring the important goals when it matters.

Given Torres' injury record, it's not a huge stretch of the imagination to suggest that, should we be able to spend his fee, we could buy two players that could improve us as an attacking unit.

Likewise, losing Gerrard (as much as it would pain me) for an inflated fee (for a 30 year old) would be good business should we pick up a Sneijder for less than 30m.

It can be done, but there's two risky variables;

1) How much of the transfer cash is made available to the manager
2) Who the manager is.

Given our situation I'd worry about both variables should we sell Torres, Gerrard etc.
[/quote]

Well said, if we sell torres and gerrard and replace them with dzeko, higuain and sneijder then i cant say i would be too upset
[/quote]

How would you not be upset to see Steven Gerrard leave our club? He has been our inspirational player for nearly a decade. Irregardless of the circumstances or the fee it would be horrible to see him leave. Ditto Torres. He is possibly the best striker in the world and a player we have grown to love. A player we can boast about and relish the fact he is ours.
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=40355.msg1108380#msg1108380 date=1274713219]
Point is, no one can guarantee who would come in with the money, or indeed if anyone would. With Torres and Gerrard we know what we've got; two of the best players in the world.
[/quote] We also know we've got a shit squad and no money. Anyway I do not think there is a right or wrong answer here, but it amazes me that everyone subscribe to the idea of 'armageddon' approachng but will shy away from the idea of putting in place drastic measures to avoid it.
 
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=40355.msg1108375#msg1108375 date=1274712864]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=40355.msg1108360#msg1108360 date=1274712088]
The best example I can think of is Inter of late. Of course Barca overpaid ridiculously for Ibra (and most think him overrated), but he was Inter's main man up front and they lost him for big bucks. He was replaced by Milito at a fraction of the cost (Eto's played wide all year) and he's improved them whilst scoring the important goals when it matters.

Given Torres' injury record, it's not a huge stretch of the imagination to suggest that, should we be able to spend his fee, we could buy two players that could improve us as an attacking unit.

Likewise, losing Gerrard (as much as it would pain me) for an inflated fee (for a 30 year old) would be good business should we pick up a Sneijder for less than 30m.

It can be done, but there's two risky variables;

1) How much of the transfer cash is made available to the manager
2) Who the manager is.

Given our situation I'd worry about both variables should we sell Torres, Gerrard etc.
[/quote]

Well said, if we sell torres and gerrard and replace them with dzeko, higuain and sneijder then i cant say i would be too upset
[/quote]


WE WON'T GET PLAYERS OF THAT CALIBRE IF WE LOOK LIKE A SINKING SHIP!!!


say we have 120M to spend, the sort of players we'll be looking at are semi-proven hopeful buys: at best guys like javi martinez & darren bent, at worst maybe lee cattermole & pavlyuchenko.

the more gambles you take, the more mistakes you make, the more money you waste.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40355.msg1108387#msg1108387 date=1274713871]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=40355.msg1108380#msg1108380 date=1274713219]
Point is, no one can guarantee who would come in with the money, or indeed if anyone would. With Torres and Gerrard we know what we've got; two of the best players in the world.
[/quote] We also know we've got a shit squad and no money. Anyway I do not think there is a right or wrong answer here, but it amazes me that everyone subscribe to the idea of 'armageddon' approachng but not tnat we need drastic measures to avoid it.
[/quote]

Depends on how you look at it. Like I've said, by one token it makes sense to sell Torres due to his injuries and lack of playing time, and in some ways I might be open to it, if I *knew* who was coming in, but all this speculation is based in us not knowing. Money alone isn't enough of an assurance, as we don't know who or what it will be spent on.

Furthermore, as I've mentioned, at this particular time, selling key players would be perceived as a symbol of demise. That's the last thing we need.

Don't rock the boat further in the midst of a storm.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=40355.msg1108386#msg1108386 date=1274713770]
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=40355.msg1108375#msg1108375 date=1274712864]
[quote author=Buddha link=topic=40355.msg1108360#msg1108360 date=1274712088]
The best example I can think of is Inter of late. Of course Barca overpaid ridiculously for Ibra (and most think him overrated), but he was Inter's main man up front and they lost him for big bucks. He was replaced by Milito at a fraction of the cost (Eto's played wide all year) and he's improved them whilst scoring the important goals when it matters.

Given Torres' injury record, it's not a huge stretch of the imagination to suggest that, should we be able to spend his fee, we could buy two players that could improve us as an attacking unit.

Likewise, losing Gerrard (as much as it would pain me) for an inflated fee (for a 30 year old) would be good business should we pick up a Sneijder for less than 30m.

It can be done, but there's two risky variables;

1) How much of the transfer cash is made available to the manager
2) Who the manager is.

Given our situation I'd worry about both variables should we sell Torres, Gerrard etc.
[/quote]

Well said, if we sell torres and gerrard and replace them with dzeko, higuain and sneijder then i cant say i would be too upset
[/quote]

How would you not be upset to see Steven Gerrard leave our club? He has been our inspirational player for nearly a decade. Irregardless of the circumstances or the fee it would be horrible to see him leave. Ditto Torres. He is possibly the best striker in the world and a player we have grown to love. A player we can boast about and relish the fact he is ours.
[/quote] I'd be upset to see either leave but I would rather be boasting about CL football. With City, Spurs and Villa fiishing ahead of us it's clear that this squad isn't talented or reliable enough to cut it
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=40355.msg1108389#msg1108389 date=1274714138]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=40355.msg1108387#msg1108387 date=1274713871]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=40355.msg1108380#msg1108380 date=1274713219]
Point is, no one can guarantee who would come in with the money, or indeed if anyone would. With Torres and Gerrard we know what we've got; two of the best players in the world.
[/quote] We also know we've got a shit squad and no money. Anyway I do not think there is a right or wrong answer here, but it amazes me that everyone subscribe to the idea of 'armageddon' approachng but not tnat we need drastic measures to avoid it.
[/quote]

Depends on how you look at it. Like I've said, by one token it makes sense to sell Torres due to his injuries and lack of playing time, and in some ways I might be open to it, if I *knew* who was coming in, but all this speculation is based in us not knowing. Money alone isn't enough of an assurance, as we don't know who or what it will be spent on.

Furthermore, as I've mentioned, at this particular time, selling key players would be perceived as a symbol of demise. That's the last thing we need.

Don't rock the boat further in the midst of a storm.
[/quote]Yeah, it's a gamble alright, but I feel it's one we should take Others don't. Meh. I just feel with it being a WC year it makes more sense to sell him now then 12 months later after if puts in a transfer request following another dismal season. He left Madrid for trophies. We will not be providing him with any.
 
what a fucking loon of a thread!! Some of the replies here are just insane! But sadly its seems to be propagation through this site at the moment!
 
Well, I think I feel a little more optimistic looking forward to this time next year, it's just a case of seeing the next season through. The sale of the club will come, just because they have to sell. The sale of the club is likely to bring a change in manager, the only reason Benitez is still here is because the owners don't care enough to sack him/don't want to spend the money it would require.

New owners investing would mean we could add quality without having to sell. Hopefully.
 
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=40355.msg1108398#msg1108398 date=1274714852]
Well, I think I feel a little more optimistic looking forward to this time next year, it's just a case of seeing the next season through. The sale of the club will come, just because they have to sell. The sale of the club is likely to bring a change in manager, the only reason Benitez is still here is because the owners don't care enough to sack him/don't want to spend the money it would require.

New owners investing would mean we could add quality without having to sell. Hopefully.
[/quote]

this is the crux of things for me: i think there's enough of a chance of the yanks being forced to sell that we shouldn't make our current situation worse & maybe more permanent. is it really so unlikely that G&H sell?
 
Why does cochyn insist on using words without knowing how to put them into sentences correctly?

It makes him seem a bit stupid
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=40355.msg1108403#msg1108403 date=1274715498]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=40355.msg1108398#msg1108398 date=1274714852]
Well, I think I feel a little more optimistic looking forward to this time next year, it's just a case of seeing the next season through. The sale of the club will come, just because they have to sell. The sale of the club is likely to bring a change in manager, the only reason Benitez is still here is because the owners don't care enough to sack him/don't want to spend the money it would require.

New owners investing would mean we could add quality without having to sell. Hopefully.
[/quote]

this is the crux of things for me: i think there's enough of a chance of the yanks being forced to sell that we shouldn't make our current situation worse & maybe more permanent. is it really so unlikely that G&H sell?
[/quote]

It is if they stick to the current valuation unfortunately, but if they haven't stumped up their current owings to the bank by the New Year matters could well be taken out of their hands at that point. So basically I agree with you both.
 
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