Tommy Smith.

[the count]

[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=48546.msg1476222#msg1476222 date=1328220095]
Seriously though, someone on Koptalk had the count from Sesame Street as his avatar.
[/quote]I honestly can't remember.
Oncey provided me with my first sesame street count avatar on here. I think I was using a Zig and Zag one before that.
Who knows, fucked if I can remember.

 

[gene hughes]

Ah, well if you didn't have that avatar then I reckon it wasn't you I'm thinking of.

 

[IanTheRed]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48546.msg1476197#msg1476197 date=1328218632]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=48546.msg1476195#msg1476195 date=1328218554]
[quote author=the count link=topic=48546.msg1476191#msg1476191 date=1328218447]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=48546.msg1476181#msg1476181 date=1328218099]
wish i was on koptalk back in the day
[/quote]I doubt if anyone remembers that I was on Koptalk 🙁
[/quote]

To be honest I don't remember much about Koptalk. Except being constantly lied to.
[/quote]

so its not much different to here then

*runs to mod forum*
[/quote]

Exactly like here, but they were more appreciative with thing such as free gifts, appeals to help other reds and heart melting posts about departed relatives.

*sniff*

 

[gene hughes]

and forthcoming books.

 

[Avmenon]

There was a lot of bad blood between them, yeah.

Another incident that riled Smith was Emlyn's famous statement about Everton during the celebration at St. Georges after winning Big Ears.

Though a lot of people thought that wasn't such a smart thing to say anyway.

 

[Graham]

[quote author=themn link=topic=48546.msg1476095#msg1476095 date=1328214369]
....Is not fucking dead yet, the fucking shit head, dirty racist cunt.

What's up with THAT ?
[/quote]

Yes, it seems that a decorated former player was a bigot 25 years ago if these quotes are genuine. Does he really need to die now though?

Calm down, for fuck's sake.

 

[mark1975]

I don't think Racism is justifiable in any sense though I do think some people are misguided, uneducated and often come from a background and era that was less tolerant to cultural differences (and less exposed to it). It's not an excuse, he's just another Alf Garnett and a symbol of old regimes, one that should be laughed 'at' and a pointer to how things once were and how they never should be again.

Wishing death though Themn? Come on mate, you're much, MUCH better than that and that's no different really to the ignorance he expressed all those years ago. Chin up, he's just an uneducated fool. An all time great footballer, but as many of them are, a fucking idiot.

 

[monsieurdantes]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48546.msg1476329#msg1476329 date=1328257507]
I don't think Racism is justifiable in any sense though I do think some people are misguided, uneducated and often come from a background and era that was less tolerant to cultural differences (and less exposed to it). It's not an excuse, he's just another Alf Garnett and a symbol of old regimes, one that should be laughed 'at' and a pointer to how things once were and how they never should be again.

Wishing death though Themn? Come on mate, you're much, MUCH better than that and that's no different really to the ignorance he expressed all those years ago. Chin up, he's just an uneducated fool. An all time great footballer, but as many of them are, a fucking idiot.
[/quote]

Would it be different if you said the same to LTW about hitler? And before you think it, no i am obviously not equating smith to hitler. I am equating your thoughts and reasoning in both situations..... cos they are mathematically symmetrical situations

 

[Pesam]

Emlyn Hughes will always be my favourite Liverpool player and even as a kid I disliked Smith because his attitude to Hughes stank. An earlier article mentions that Smith was more popular with the older LFC player which is bollox, Hughes was a hugely popular captain and always seemed to have the full respect/admiration from the other players (bar Smith). Emlyn Hughes is as much a part of LFC folklore as Shanks and Sir Bob.

 

[themn]

[quote author=Graham link=topic=48546.msg1476287#msg1476287 date=1328235452]
[quote author=themn link=topic=48546.msg1476095#msg1476095 date=1328214369]
....Is not fucking dead yet, the fucking shit head, dirty racist cunt.

What's up with THAT ?
[/quote]

Yes, it seems that a decorated former player was a bigot 25 years ago if these quotes are genuine. Does he really need to die now though?

Calm down, for fuck's sake.

[/quote]

Fuck him.

 

[Athens]

[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=48546.msg1476333#msg1476333 date=1328258117]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48546.msg1476329#msg1476329 date=1328257507]
I don't think Racism is justifiable in any sense though I do think some people are misguided, uneducated and often come from a background and era that was less tolerant to cultural differences (and less exposed to it). It's not an excuse, he's just another Alf Garnett and a symbol of old regimes, one that should be laughed 'at' and a pointer to how things once were and how they never should be again.

Wishing death though Themn? Come on mate, you're much, MUCH better than that and that's no different really to the ignorance he expressed all those years ago. Chin up, he's just an uneducated fool. An all time great footballer, but as many of them are, a fucking idiot.
[/quote]

Would it be different if you said the same to LTW about hitler? And before you think it, no i am obviously not equating smith to hitler. I am equating your thoughts and reasoning in both situations..... cos they are mathematically symmetrical situations
[/quote]

Oh here we go...

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=48546.msg1476333#msg1476333 date=1328258117]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48546.msg1476329#msg1476329 date=1328257507]
I don't think Racism is justifiable in any sense though I do think some people are misguided, uneducated and often come from a background and era that was less tolerant to cultural differences (and less exposed to it). It's not an excuse, he's just another Alf Garnett and a symbol of old regimes, one that should be laughed 'at' and a pointer to how things once were and how they never should be again.

Wishing death though Themn? Come on mate, you're much, MUCH better than that and that's no different really to the ignorance he expressed all those years ago. Chin up, he's just an uneducated fool. An all time great footballer, but as many of them are, a fucking idiot.
[/quote]

Would it be different if you said the same to LTW about hitler? And before you think it, no i am obviously not equating smith to hitler. I am equating your thoughts and reasoning in both situations..... cos they are mathematically symmetrical situations
[/quote]

Hitler's dead mate. So I can't really wish him dead.

 

[Athens]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=48546.msg1476344#msg1476344 date=1328259062]
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=48546.msg1476333#msg1476333 date=1328258117]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48546.msg1476329#msg1476329 date=1328257507]
I don't think Racism is justifiable in any sense though I do think some people are misguided, uneducated and often come from a background and era that was less tolerant to cultural differences (and less exposed to it). It's not an excuse, he's just another Alf Garnett and a symbol of old regimes, one that should be laughed 'at' and a pointer to how things once were and how they never should be again.

Wishing death though Themn? Come on mate, you're much, MUCH better than that and that's no different really to the ignorance he expressed all those years ago. Chin up, he's just an uneducated fool. An all time great footballer, but as many of them are, a fucking idiot.
[/quote]

Would it be different if you said the same to LTW about hitler? And before you think it, no i am obviously not equating smith to hitler. I am equating your thoughts and reasoning in both situations..... cos they are mathematically symmetrical situations
[/quote]

Hitler's dead mate. So I can't really wish him dead.
[/quote]
I think Dantes forgot to factor the millions of innocent people dead into his equation.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=48546.msg1476333#msg1476333 date=1328258117]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48546.msg1476329#msg1476329 date=1328257507]
I don't think Racism is justifiable in any sense though I do think some people are misguided, uneducated and often come from a background and era that was less tolerant to cultural differences (and less exposed to it). It's not an excuse, he's just another Alf Garnett and a symbol of old regimes, one that should be laughed 'at' and a pointer to how things once were and how they never should be again.

Wishing death though Themn? Come on mate, you're much, MUCH better than that and that's no different really to the ignorance he expressed all those years ago. Chin up, he's just an uneducated fool. An all time great footballer, but as many of them are, a fucking idiot.
[/quote]

Would it be different if you said the same to LTW about hitler? And before you think it, no i am obviously not equating smith to hitler. I am equating your thoughts and reasoning in both situations..... cos they are mathematically symmetrical situations
[/quote]

Yes, mathematically symmetrical, like comparing myself as a father to say, Fred West.

Don't start with that shite.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=athensruairi link=topic=48546.msg1476346#msg1476346 date=1328259158]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=48546.msg1476344#msg1476344 date=1328259062]
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=48546.msg1476333#msg1476333 date=1328258117]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48546.msg1476329#msg1476329 date=1328257507]
I don't think Racism is justifiable in any sense though I do think some people are misguided, uneducated and often come from a background and era that was less tolerant to cultural differences (and less exposed to it). It's not an excuse, he's just another Alf Garnett and a symbol of old regimes, one that should be laughed 'at' and a pointer to how things once were and how they never should be again.

Wishing death though Themn? Come on mate, you're much, MUCH better than that and that's no different really to the ignorance he expressed all those years ago. Chin up, he's just an uneducated fool. An all time great footballer, but as many of them are, a fucking idiot.
[/quote]

Would it be different if you said the same to LTW about hitler? And before you think it, no i am obviously not equating smith to hitler. I am equating your thoughts and reasoning in both situations..... cos they are mathematically symmetrical situations
[/quote]

Hitler's dead mate. So I can't really wish him dead.
[/quote]
I think Dantes forgot to factor the millions of innocent people dead into his equation.
[/quote]

That ... and Smith never made everyone around him as hateful as he was ... and didn't promtoe his hatred with actions etc ... but other than that, valid comparison.

 

[monsieurdantes]

Lets save time and assume you've already lost that argument about factors with me.

The point is you are being critical of themn because you have an arbritary notion of how sensitve he should be about racism. You would go easy on LTW because of another arbritary notion that he is justified in being very sensitive to nazi ideology. Earlier on I got called loopy because JJ has an abritary notion of how sensitive I am allowed to be when I see an injustice at a disciplinary hearing.

In truth is there is nothing arbritary. You dont get to decide my sensitivity, it was decided years ago by another disciplinary hearing. Your arbritary notion is at best a good approximation for most people, but not all people. You call them loopy, I call it an anomly which reminds you that your mental model of other people is an arbritary approximation

 

[Athens]

[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=48546.msg1476351#msg1476351 date=1328259703]
Lets save time and assume you've already lost that argument about factors with me.

The point is you are being critical of themn because you have an arbritary notion of how sensitve he should be about racism. You would go easy on LTW because of another arbritary notion that he is justified in being very sensitive to nazi ideology. Earlier on I got called loopy because JJ has an abritary notion of how sensitive I am allowed to be when I see an injustice at a disciplinary hearing.

In truth is there is nothing arbritary. You dont get to decide my sensitivity, it was decided years ago by another disciplinary hearing. Your arbritary notion is at best a good approximation for most people, but not all people. You call them loopy, I call it an anomly which reminds you that your mental model of other people is an arbritary approximation
[/quote]
How about we save time and assume you're wrong?

 

[Farkmaster]

The way I see it there are three options explaining Dantes' reductio ad absurdum in every thread.

Dantes lacks the cognitive ability which would enable him to understand what a valid comparison is.
He is a sociopath who deals only in absolutes.
He is a lazy windup merchant godwinning the argument.

 

[monsieurdantes]

Of course. How did I not see my error? Thanks all

 

[Athens]

[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=48546.msg1476356#msg1476356 date=1328260714]
Of course. How did I not see my error? Thanks all
[/quote]
Don't mention it, we're all human.

 

[Buddha]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=48546.msg1476353#msg1476353 date=1328260016]
The way I see it there are three options explaining Dantes' reductio ad absurdum in every thread.

Dantes lacks the cognitive ability which would enable him to understand what a valid comparison is.
He is a sociopath who deals only in absolutes.
He is a lazy windup merchant godwinning the argument.
[/quote]

...or he cognitizes in a way different, but equally valid, to the majority population. Ie.aspergers.

As Laing noted..."it's no sign of sanity to be well adjusted to a sick society", or something like that.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=48546.msg1476351#msg1476351 date=1328259703]
Lets save time and assume you've already lost that argument about factors with me.

The point is you are being critical of themn because you have an arbritary notion of how sensitve he should be about racism. You would go easy on LTW because of another arbritary notion that he is justified in being very sensitive to nazi ideology. Earlier on I got called loopy because JJ has an abritary notion of how sensitive I am allowed to be when I see an injustice at a disciplinary hearing.

In truth is there is nothing arbritary. You dont get to decide my sensitivity, it was decided years ago by another disciplinary hearing. Your arbritary notion is at best a good approximation for most people, but not all people. You call them loopy, I call it an anomly which reminds you that your mental model of other people is an arbritary approximation
[/quote]

I'm not assuming anything about how sensitive he should be, I can still be critical of it. You think too fucking much.

 

[spider-Neil]

I love how some people attempt to absolve smith with excuses like; 'everyone was doing it back then' or 'it was a different age'. hilarious, you could absolve world war nazism with the same excuses.

 

[Athens]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48546.msg1476401#msg1476401 date=1328264513]
I love how some people attempt to absolve smith with excuses like; 'everyone was doing it back then' or 'it was a different age'. hilarious, you could absolve world war nazism with the same excuses.
[/quote]

Dantes was hinting at that but with mathematical formulas

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48546.msg1476401#msg1476401 date=1328264513]
I love how some people attempt to absolve smith with excuses like; 'everyone was doing it back then' or 'it was a different age'. hilarious, you could absolve world war nazism with the same excuses.
[/quote]

People are really missing the point. Is that what you think I was doing? Absolving him of blame? I said he was ignorant and stupid, which he is.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48546.msg1476412#msg1476412 date=1328265223]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48546.msg1476401#msg1476401 date=1328264513]
I love how some people attempt to absolve smith with excuses like; 'everyone was doing it back then' or 'it was a different age'. hilarious, you could absolve world war nazism with the same excuses.
[/quote]

People are really missing the point. Is that what you think I was doing? Absolving him of blame? I said he was ignorant and stupid, which he is.
[/quote]

not aimed at you or anyone in this thread to be honest. just had to get that off my chest after reading such excuses in the past.

 

[mark1975]

Of course it doesn't make it ok or justify it in any way, I just think the attitude of Smith (and others) is laughably old hat. I know it's offensive and I know racism runs alot deeper and it's because of such bigotry views that people have gone through all manner of suffering. He's just some old duffer who's a bit thick and has made himself look like a twat.

 

[monsieurdantes]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48546.msg1476379#msg1476379 date=1328263250]
[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=48546.msg1476351#msg1476351 date=1328259703]
Lets save time and assume you've already lost that argument about factors with me.

The point is you are being critical of themn because you have an arbritary notion of how sensitve he should be about racism. You would go easy on LTW because of another arbritary notion that he is justified in being very sensitive to nazi ideology. Earlier on I got called loopy because JJ has an abritary notion of how sensitive I am allowed to be when I see an injustice at a disciplinary hearing.

In truth is there is nothing arbritary. You dont get to decide my sensitivity, it was decided years ago by another disciplinary hearing. Your arbritary notion is at best a good approximation for most people, but not all people. You call them loopy, I call it an anomly which reminds you that your mental model of other people is an arbritary approximation
[/quote]

I'm not assuming anything about how sensitive he should be, I can still be critical of it. You think too fucking much.
[/quote]


I think you are criticising him based upon standards we all learnt as children. So that is what agitates me because it seems more like patronizing rather than criticizing. Instead you should try to understand and then criticise the reasons he has to adopt diifferent standards in this situation. It is a given that you will disagree and say his standard is wrong, there is no need to even say that much less present it to themn as if he needs to be educated.

 

[redblack7]

[quote author=monsieurdantes link=topic=48546.msg1476333#msg1476333 date=1328258117]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48546.msg1476329#msg1476329 date=1328257507]
I don't think Racism is justifiable in any sense though I do think some people are misguided, uneducated and often come from a background and era that was less tolerant to cultural differences (and less exposed to it). It's not an excuse, he's just another Alf Garnett and a symbol of old regimes, one that should be laughed 'at' and a pointer to how things once were and how they never should be again.

Wishing death though Themn? Come on mate, you're much, MUCH better than that and that's no different really to the ignorance he expressed all those years ago. Chin up, he's just an uneducated fool. An all time great footballer, but as many of them are, a fucking idiot.
[/quote]

Would it be different if you said the same to LTW about hitler? And before you think it, no i am obviously not equating smith to hitler. I am equating your thoughts and reasoning in both situations..... cos they are mathematically symmetrical situations
[/quote]



Mathematics has nothing to do with any resolution to this particular topic of discussion.Absurd comparison.

 

[jexykrodic]

I've always been in awe of characters like Tommy Smith, he's the archetypal 60's hardman footballer cf. Chopper Harris, Norman Hunter etc etc; they were the stuff of legend when I was a kid.

His views, though unsurprising, make not the slightest difference to me. I still see a footballer when I hear his name. He'd have to do something rather than say something stupid for me to change my mind. Has he?