Three years and counting
- Thread starter Silver Sean
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If you don't think bowing out of both the CL and EL without even a fight, making a shit Villa team look like the better team in an FA cup semi final and spending a load of money on shite AND finishing outside a top 4 that was eminently doable then I don't know what to think.
Only problem with that is who would be available at that time that would be a better bet? For me it's either end it now or back him for at least another full season.
Yeah, and last year we were 2nd.
I'm not suggesting that Mr Rodgers is doing fine, I just don't want to see another change in management yet. It's only my opinion, and to give it some perspective you should know that I would have given Rafa or Dalglish more time too.
Well, whisper it, but I still wish Rafa was our manager.
Kinda torn on this....
On one hand, we play great football and at times have been good to watch and with the right transfers we could push on but we said that last summer. Would a new manager really improve us from 5/6th to top 4 or would we become like spurs and chop managers at first signs of failure.
However, creeping doubts on whether BR will ever deliver a trophy. We as a club exist to win trophies.
On one hand, we play great football and at times have been good to watch and with the right transfers we could push on but we said that last summer. Would a new manager really improve us from 5/6th to top 4 or would we become like spurs and chop managers at first signs of failure.
However, creeping doubts on whether BR will ever deliver a trophy. We as a club exist to win trophies.
I think I'd give him another season but what worries me the most is the passionless recent displays against the likes of Villa and Hull. If you can't motivate your very talented squad for an FA Cup semi final or an important league match then serious questions have to be asked.
Over the last 20 years we've been far behind the top teams in terms of ability but now with players such as Can, Coutinho, Sterling, Sturridge (when fit), Ibe, Skrtel, Lallana etc we should be able to compete better than we did this season. If Rodgers can't instill belief into his squad then he should go.
Maybe there is an issue between Rodgers and Gerrard and maybe Gerrard leaving will be the catalyst for Rodgers to take full control of this squad but even if he does get another chance next season he's got a lot to prove.
Over the last 20 years we've been far behind the top teams in terms of ability but now with players such as Can, Coutinho, Sterling, Sturridge (when fit), Ibe, Skrtel, Lallana etc we should be able to compete better than we did this season. If Rodgers can't instill belief into his squad then he should go.
Maybe there is an issue between Rodgers and Gerrard and maybe Gerrard leaving will be the catalyst for Rodgers to take full control of this squad but even if he does get another chance next season he's got a lot to prove.
How was the team of 2001/2002 or 2008/2009 far behind the others in quality? Both better squads than we have today.
Largely agree, except for the "only problem" bit. IMO there's more to it than the above, in that any change we make now will mean (yet) another period of delay and upheaval. That by itself isn't an argument for not making a change, but it *is* an argument for not doing so unless the balance of advantage is very clearly in favour of it. I don't think that's the case at the moment, though another season out of the top four *will* be unacceptable.
First of all, he or the committee or whatever other quasi-medieval arrangement is in operation needs to get a genuinely top striker. No ifs or buts, if they don't do that, they all may as well go away.
Second, the team has to hit the ground running at the start of next season. No 'they're taking time to learn my methods'; no 'I inherited the worst team in world football' nonsense. They have to be playing the high tempo pressing game in August, not four or five months later. That's down to the fitness team and the coaches and the manager. They have to get the players ready for a full season, not the second half of it.
Third, Rodgers has got to beat the top teams next season. Early next season. No excuses.
Second, the team has to hit the ground running at the start of next season. No 'they're taking time to learn my methods'; no 'I inherited the worst team in world football' nonsense. They have to be playing the high tempo pressing game in August, not four or five months later. That's down to the fitness team and the coaches and the manager. They have to get the players ready for a full season, not the second half of it.
Third, Rodgers has got to beat the top teams next season. Early next season. No excuses.
It's got more to do with who we were up against. Both those LFC teams were great but not as good as United with Giggs, Scholes, Keane, Schmeichel, Cantona etc or Chelsea with Drogba, Essien, Terry, Carvalho, Lampard, Cech etc or Arsenal with Henry, Bergkamp, Pires, Viera, Ljunberg, Petit, Adams, Seaman etc.
We have the squad to compete at the top end of the EPL now because the Chelseas, Arsenals and Uniteds etc have gone backwards in terms of quality.
And as far as the Europa League is concerned, I don't know what the rules are, but as far as possible we should field a separate team made up of reserves (back up keeper, different captain, etc) and treat the wretched thing with the contempt it deserves. I don't want any excuses about too many matches, either.
Good point, out now then.
Not sure what there is to like then.
It always niggles me when the managers at top clubs seem to think there's not much they can do when their players under-perform for a long period. If they lose a top player or sign the wrong one or two, it's as if some of them just hunker down and wait stoically for the next transfer window. Managers of lesser clubs can't afford trying that. They have to get on with it, deal with what they have and get their players to fight. No whining about missing pieces of the jigsaw. The least they can do is to make their team compete. Rodgers has seen his players go out in game after game - big games, games of glamour and huge importance - and walk about as if it's a pre-season friendly. I don't care what players were missing. If Burnley or Leicester can come out and play a high tempo, competitive game, then so can Liverpool. There's no excuse for a manager just looking on and shaking his head. That's an integral part of his job, his responsibility. That has to change immediately.
That would be while completely ignoring what he did last season. You've made it plainly obvious from day one that you don't like or rate him, but being selective in your reasoning, while having a pop at those who have the audacity to think a young manager deserves time?
So basically any manager who fucks up is on a hiding to nothing. We are fucking Newcastle the way our fans carry on, while hypocritically quoting our motto and banging on about history, when managers got time.
Don't moan about other posters being selective with facts and then do the same yourself. He 'dragged' us from eighth to seventh. Then from seventh to second. Then from second he 'dragged' us to fifth or sixth. In his third season, a year after getting second, apparently his players are still scared in big games. So how much more time would you like for him? One year? Two years? Three years?
I am not ignoring what we (nearly) achieved last season at all. And I have not always disliked him at all. I sincerely do want him to succeed. But the pathetic capitulation of this season, as Macca is pointing out, is a total mess. Too often we have had opportunities that we have squandered through poor management. I have not had a single go at anyone who think she deserves more time. I'm genuinely torn as to what the best option is. We are not becoming Newcastle if we find a better replacement. We should be demanding the best at all times. That's what we did in the past, which is why a few of our managers lasted more than 5 years. The were successful. When they were no longer successful they were replaced. It's not rocket science. Last season is last season, it's what he's not achieved this that is the issue. We look fucking clueless.
Yes. As I said in another thread, I don't subscribe to the 'let's deny Rodgers any credit whatsoever for anything that's been good last season'. But as Sean suggests, it's not irrelevant that Rodgers is the first manager in more than half a century not to win anything within three seasons. This is a huge club with huge pressure on any manager's shoulders. They have to deliver. That's generally why, once the internal boot room succession ended, we've looked for experienced managers who've already shown they know how to win things. As soon as you bring in a very young and relatively inexperienced manager, you're obliging him to leap forward about ten years in terms of his own natural development as a manager and hit the ground running. It isn't fair on him or the club. It is the right policy for the wrong club. He has to be judged by the standards of this club, and, sadly, he's failing to convince. I'd be absolutely thrilled if he starts next season brilliantly and oversees a strong, sharp, attacking team full of players hungry for success. But right now that requires a very, very, wild act of faith.
I'll admit i never liked him from the start and found it hard to listen to the nonsense he came out with but that doesn't mean i didn't want him to succeed. If he does well then that means the team does well and I support the Team not whoever the manager is at the time. I even wanted Hodgson to do well for the same reasons even though I couldn't stand the man.
Does anyone think that having your best player sold, your best striker injured for a season and your club captain announcing his retirement could have played a part in our struggle to improve?
Personally I do and I see these things as reasons rather than excuses. BR will be a better manager for the experience and this seasons new signings will have settled.
I suspect the owners will have learnt the lesson that you can't sell quality without direct replacements. I don't know the recruitment structure but it's very obviously flawed and I'm sure they'll address it.
I think there's a bit more to the team and clubs failings than just a lone bloke from NI.
Personally I do and I see these things as reasons rather than excuses. BR will be a better manager for the experience and this seasons new signings will have settled.
I suspect the owners will have learnt the lesson that you can't sell quality without direct replacements. I don't know the recruitment structure but it's very obviously flawed and I'm sure they'll address it.
I think there's a bit more to the team and clubs failings than just a lone bloke from NI.
Jexy, ever the voice of reason, which is becoming a rarity these days on here.
It's not like we lost Suarez on a free transfer, we got the best part of 75 million for him! That money should have been put to better use than Balotelli and Lambert.
The club and manager should also have realised that they needed a similar type player for when Sturridge inevitably gets injured. That's not me being wise after the fact but if you look at his career he misses lots of games each season. Maybe that was why they were after Remy but it doesn't explain when that fell through why they went for Balotelli who plays a completely different way. More than anything it seems that the transfer committee fails to identify back ups to our initial targets. If that's true then it's comically amateurish.
Also Gerrard leaving was announced way after we started playing shit.
Here's Sturridge's injuries since 2011 (taken from soccerway.com)
SIDELINED
DescriptionStart DateEnd Date
Hip/Thigh Injury 08/04/15
Thigh Muscle Strain 17/11/14 28/01/15
Calf Muscle Strain 15/10/14 16/11/14
Thigh Muscle Strain 07/09/14 14/10/14
Hamstring 13/04/14 24/04/14
Ankle Ligaments 26/11/13 08/01/14
Hip/Thigh Injury 01/09/13 14/09/13
Ankle Ligaments 29/05/13 04/08/13
Hamstring 19/02/13 08/03/13
Hip/Thigh Injury 03/02/13 15/02/13
Hamstring 18/11/12 11/12/12
Hamstring 16/09/12 18/10/12
Broken Toe 12/08/12 17/08/12
Viral Meningitis 02/07/12 23/07/12
Knee Injury 20/09/11 26/09/11
Suspended 21/05/11 27/08/11
The club and manager should also have realised that they needed a similar type player for when Sturridge inevitably gets injured. That's not me being wise after the fact but if you look at his career he misses lots of games each season. Maybe that was why they were after Remy but it doesn't explain when that fell through why they went for Balotelli who plays a completely different way. More than anything it seems that the transfer committee fails to identify back ups to our initial targets. If that's true then it's comically amateurish.
Also Gerrard leaving was announced way after we started playing shit.
Here's Sturridge's injuries since 2011 (taken from soccerway.com)
SIDELINED
DescriptionStart DateEnd Date
Hip/Thigh Injury 08/04/15
Thigh Muscle Strain 17/11/14 28/01/15
Calf Muscle Strain 15/10/14 16/11/14
Thigh Muscle Strain 07/09/14 14/10/14
Hamstring 13/04/14 24/04/14
Ankle Ligaments 26/11/13 08/01/14
Hip/Thigh Injury 01/09/13 14/09/13
Ankle Ligaments 29/05/13 04/08/13
Hamstring 19/02/13 08/03/13
Hip/Thigh Injury 03/02/13 15/02/13
Hamstring 18/11/12 11/12/12
Hamstring 16/09/12 18/10/12
Broken Toe 12/08/12 17/08/12
Viral Meningitis 02/07/12 23/07/12
Knee Injury 20/09/11 26/09/11
Suspended 21/05/11 27/08/11
The first point is fair enough. The second one I think is questionable. The point is: what have we seen this season, in terms of how Rodgers has reacted to setbacks, that justifies the faith in believing he'll progress next season?
- He's had players foisted on him, apparently. So how did he react? Incoherently, as far as I can see. Balotelli he used, then froze out, then used again, then froze out again, without ever threatening to show his coaching and tactical skills in making the best out of a bad short-term deal.
- He bought players he wanted, apparently. So how did he use them? Again, oddly, to say the least. Lambert has mainly been thrown on with fewer than five minutes to go. I've heard of bit part players but that's ridiculous. Markovic has been used amazingly rigidly for a manager who has shown flexibility in other situations. Although the player can play in numerous positions, Rodgers has just stuck with one role on the right and then subbed him, over and over again. This is a player he's apparently wanted for YEARS.
- Then there's giving youth a chance, one of his specialities. Ibe went out on loan. Fair enough, I didn't agree at the time but at least he called him back and started playing him. But where were the other bright young things? If your strikers are crocked, your season a disappointment, what about trying the odd young player? He's done a bit, but nothing like with the enthusiasm and positivity one would expect from him, given his reputation.
- Then there's his tactical nous. Again, facing adversity, that's something that should have been a beacon of hope, but it hasn't been more than a flicker. He changed the formation. Good. But when the likes of Neil Lennon, Garry Monk, Tim Sherwood and Steve Bruce had worked how to respond...nothing. Nada. He DID have a Plan B. But there's been no C or D. And in Europe he seemed out of his depth.
- Then there's man management - another part of his supposed USP. Well, why haven't enough players been fighting for him? Why have they come out and knocked their knees together against the mancs, against Arsenal and, god help us, against Villa in a cup semi final? All we hear, game after game after game, is: 'They started far too slowly...' as if he's a casual observer up in the stands. What's he done about it? Nothing.
It was announced in Jan ... just at the start of a 10+ game unbeaten run.
You're absolutely right to question. He's obviously made mistakes but he isn't alone, the owners and executives need to sharpen up as well which was the point I was trying and failing to make.
The club and the team do seem to be confused about how things are run and that needs to stop. When things are incoherent is when people start to lose motivation and confidence and that's what I think has happened.
I think both the Manager and players are a lot better than they've shown and need better direction and psychology which is why I repeatedly bang on about Doctor Peters (or another suitable candidate) being a permanent consultant.
This season I don't think the buck stops just at the Manager's door, the owners need to regroup and plan and co-ordinate better.
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