Three years and counting

[Silver Sean]

So he's had three years, spent a lot of money, gave us hope we'd discovered a manager that would make us great again then blown it quite spectacularly. I've been thinking a lot about where we go from here since walking out of Wembley shaking my head (once again) at how utterly inept we looked.

The Liverpool way means many things. It means sticking with the team, backing the manager (that cunt Hodgson aside) and believing that a sound foundation built over time and longevity are paramount. It means being humble, letting others do the talking about what we achieve on and off the pitch and exuding difference and class. On the pitch. In the stands. Behind the scenes.

But you know what else the Liverpool way represents? Winning. And determination. And putting a team on the pitch to be proud of and represents a unique club – and makes us dream.
Can any of us see a future where next season all the failings of last summer's spending are reversed? Where we recruit the right players to challenge again? The leadership to make us a force?

So is three years enough to judge the man? He's now had half of what Houllier and Benitez had, and is only 18 months off Roy Evans. He's had longer than Souness and twice what Kenny had second time round.

It doesn't feel to me that we're part way through a reign that is going to ultimately become successful. We've failed at every stage where BR could have made that break through and really put us back on the map. Our abject surrender in Europe this season is painful, our inability to overhaul a United team that's all over the fucking place is also unforgivable. We could have really nailed them and pushed them out of the CL for two successive seasons. The way he was handed his arse by a shit Villa team under Tim Sherwood when a cup final was on offer was laughable. I for one hope FSG have a plan B, because I'm not sure I believe BR does. We have no one in any role at the club with any experience of sustained success in top football. Not one.

The Liverpool way might stand for loyalty and we might kid ourselves we're different, but the sad truth is we must demand success and excellence from everyone involved.

Is it time for the owners to show the ruthlessness that saw them all become self-made multimillionnaires, and get us a proven winner? Or should they back their man, give him more money and see it out?

 

[Nir.Barak]

The truth is we could switch managers around as much as we like,
When Chelsea and City splash 3 times as much as we do, it'd take a miracle for us to win something anyhow.

 

[Rosco]

So he's had three years, spent a lot of money, gave us hope we'd discovered a manager that would make us great again then blown it quite spectacularly

I think if that's how you see it then he has to be sacked. But to simply say good league finish = good manager, bad league finish = bad manager is about as childish and stupid a way of judging things as you can get.

He's been the same manager all the way along, who happened upon the Suarez mega season and the Sturridge super fit season.

If you want to be critical of Rodgers - his transfer dealings are questionable at best, our team has never looked particularly well drilled in any respect. Personally I think he's a self aggrandising bellend and as unlikeable a manager as we've had.

Yet still we're more or less about where we should be.

Unless theres an outstanding manager available I'd prefer to focus on rebooting the transfer committee.

 

[davud graham]

FSG have tried the director of football (Commoli) and the transfer Committe and it's fair to say that both largely failed. One or two successes with both systems but a hell of a lot of duds. I don't see the point in employing a manager with a vision of how he wants to play and who he wants to play in whatever system and then not letting him get on with it. Maybe they wanted some oversight considering Rodgers had never spent a lot of money at the other clubs he was at but doesn't that say that they didn't have complete confidence in him to start off with. I don't think I have complete confidence in him either and would prefer to bring in a manager who has experience of winning things and can execute a tactical plan when it come to big games.
I don't like it when almost winning things is seen as acceptable.

 

[keniget]

I think he's a self aggrandising bellend and as unlikeable a manager as we've had.

Agree with the first bit but in terms of the second, Hodgson still wins.

 

[Rosco]

It's not really about not trusting the manager.

It's simply that to expect the manager to deal with his squad and opponents on a daily basis and to also be aware of everything going on in world football is absurd.

It's too big a job

 

[Rosco]

Agree with the first bit but in terms of the second, Hodgson still wins.

Yeah, I kinda pitied him a bit though

 

[jexykrodic]

As the game is now more about business and money we are performing about par in League spending terms. Either increased spending or an unlikely bucking of the trend is needed to win the League.

Silver Sean's decision criteria would see the likes of Wenger replaced.

It has got down to a game of stick or twist now and we must remember that there are only 2 likely winners of the League, even the likes of the Mancs and Arse are playing for places.

Ultimately it's up to the owners to find more money and a better Manager, I don't think you'll get a better Manager without better resources. We've got a rookie Manager on mid-table money. We're going to have to be patient and hope BR's apprenticeship is a success or find a big lump of money to get the best.

 

[davud graham]

A Manager should be aware of what players fundamentally don't fit in with their style of play, tactics or fomation though surely. It doesn't mean he jets around the world scouting players or sorting out contracts but knows how they play and what type of team would suit them best. Balotelli or Lambert for example. He tried to replace an injured Sturridge with Lambert early in the season whilst trying to play the same way and that was never going to work as they're totally different and I realise that it's understood that Balotelli wasn't his choice but in the end he signed off on him. Surely he could have suggested alternatives and if he couldn't then what's the point of him.
Especially when most signings are made in the close season when he doesn't have to deal with his squad or opponents on a daily basis.

 

[jexykrodic]

A Manager should be aware of what players fundamentally don't fit in with their style of play, tactics or fomation though surely. It doesn't mean he jets around the world scouting players or sorting out contracts but knows how they play and what type of team would suit them best. Balotelli or Lambert for example. He tried to replace an injured Sturridge with Lambert early in the season whilst trying to play the same way and that was never going to work as they're totally different and I realise that it's understood that Balotelli wasn't his choice but in the end he signed off on him. Surely he could have suggested alternatives and if he couldn't then what's the point of him.
Especially when most signings are made in the close season when he doesn't have to deal with his squad or opponents on a daily basis.

It's what apprentices do, they make mistakes. Hopefully they learn from them.

 

[Mamma Mia]

We've put a lot of investment into a young manager and a young squad. It makes sense to me to wait and see how it develops before initiating yet another round of changes.

I'd give him another three years at least, barring any real disasters.

 

[Rafiagra]

A Manager should be aware of what players fundamentally don't fit in with their style of play, tactics or fomation though surely.

Problem is Rodgers changes the tactics about 3 times during every match so nobody has a clue who fits in.

Wg need an overachiever - someone who is going to defy the odds and get success in spite of competing against richer clubs. It looked like he could do it last season with how we were playing but he's been shown up this one. That's why I'd take the punt on Klopp this summer. He's shown he can do it and I'm not sure Rodgers ever will.

 

[peekay]

We've put a lot of investment into a young manager and a young squad. It makes sense to me to wait and see how it develops before initiating yet another round of changes.

I'd give him another three years at least, barring any real disasters.

Well, I would say this year has been a disaster. We had a small opening to establish ourself as a top 4 club with Mancs being so bad even with their spending and we blew it. If the Mancs go and spend another 150 million that window might close for another 2-3 years.

Three more years. No way. One year at the maximum where he has to show tangible progress - qualify for CL places or win a cup. I would have more faith if he had a track record to point to like Ferguson had before he took over the scums or Rafa had before he took over us. Giving him three more years on faith is madness.

The idea of young manager and young squad developing and growing together is very nice to think about but rarely happens. Because different players have staggered break out seasons and once they have, they are really impatient for success. Look at Sterling. Forget the players, what is the guarantee that after serving his "apprenticeship" here and learning how to be a top manager, Brendan will stick around? Maybe after one year of success, he will jump ship to Barcelona or Bayern if he reaches that level. Already there are links to City when he does not win 8 games in a row.

Wenger, Ferguson, Gerrard - they are all exceptions to the rule in terms of loyalty. Let us not use them as a basis for any of our decision making.

 

[davud graham]

The longer we go without success the longer we'll be seen to players as a stepping stone to bigger clubs. Or even worse we might be seen as the best an unambitious player can hope for.
When players get to a certain level money isn't the only motivation and medals gain importance. We've seen already with Sterling this season (probably unjustified given his recents efforts) that he wants money and a chance of winning things. Suarez certainly wanted more success than we were able to give him. I'll support the club no matter what but it's far more interesting and exciting when you think the teams capable of winning things.

 

[Khalido]

We've lost 50gls this season due to Suarez/Sturridge situation. Lambert/Balotelli/Borini failed miserably to fill that void. All Rodgers signings. Despite that, we'll probably only just miss out on 4th. Conclusion, Rodgers carries the can for poor transfers but is still a talented coach?

 

[davud graham]

The conclusion i read into that is we managed to finish above spurs, southampton , everton , swansea ,stoke etc. In other words no one we shouldn't be finishing above having spent over 100 million.

 

[Hansern]

The poor at transfers bit is not easy to answer without knowing what actually goes on with that bleeding transfer committee.
The PSV sporting director Brands said that he dealt with Ayre, which is natural.
But his comments suggested we put Depay on hold as we had to get a striker due to Sturridge hip surgery.
Utd moved fast and that changed the decision for Depay. If this is true and we miss out on yet another top target because we fucked about, then that isnt Rodgers fault. Maybe Depay wanted Utd all along but of all those top targets we've missed out on, we could have landed a few hadnt fucked about.

Now, we dont know what actually goes on with our transfers. But you dont need to be a rocket scientist to understand that Ayre and the whole committee doesnt work. We need to change that whole set up.

As for Rodgers. He's a talented manager. He cant set up a team defensively though, and this season it looks like he has trouble motivating the players.

I'm really not sure what to do. If a top manager is available like Klopp, then we be mad not to consider it.
But to change just for the sake of it isnt the way forward.

 

[keniget]

It's difficult because the whole transfer committee thing makes it difficult to apportion blame for the teams failings and apportioning blame is important part of our process!

 

[6TimesaRed]

Switch off.. unplug.. and upgrade hardware

Reboot.. with Klopp..

I can't say anymore than that... Other than I don't trust Rodgers and this current committee to get it right in the transfer market..

 

[davud graham]

Whatever system we have for selecting a player , placing a valuation on a him and succesfully negiotiating the transfer isn't working.
We either pick the wrong player (balotelli,aspas etc) as the commitee or whoever don't know what they are doing or we pay over the odds for a player (Lallana,Lovren, Moreno, allen and markovic) as our chief negotiator is hopeless.
Ocassionally we pay around the right price and get it done with minimum fuss (Coutinho,Sturridge and Can) but that's usually down to either the selling club wanting to get rid of the player or we meet a price set out in the players contract.
Also I would hope the Least we can expect from a manager is to set the team up to be reasonably defensively solid and be able to motivate his players. Two out of his 3 years in the job have seen us start the season with a striking crisis and Rodgers (and the club to be fair) deserve plenty of criticism for that.

 

[Squiggles]

It's harsh I know, but if Sterling is looking to leave, I really will find it hard to believe Rodgers is the man to take this club forward. It would be difficult to trust him with the transfer money and if he cannot convince a 20 year old kid, who he works with every day, that he's got what it takes to lead this club to the top then you sure as hell won't convince me.

If Klopp were remotely interested we should make the switch, but if not then we're best sticking. There is not a lot of options out there.

 

[Markeh]

It's harsh I know, but if Sterling is looking to leave, I really will find it hard to believe Rodgers is the man to take this club forward. It would be difficult to trust him with the transfer money and if he cannot convince a 20 year old kid, who he works with every day, that he's got what it takes to lead this club to the top then you sure as hell won't convince me.

If Klopp were remotely interested we should make the switch, but if not then we're best sticking. There is not a lot of options out there.

I'm still alright with Rodgers for now but what if he fucks next season up and we missed the boat on Klopp or whoever else? That's why I too lean towards replacing him now.

 

[localny]

It's actually not complicated. We scored almost 60 less goals this year. Fix that and we'll be away in a hack.

 

[Molbystwin]

The truth is we could switch managers around as much as we like,
When Chelsea and City splash 3 times as much as we do, it'd take a miracle for us to win something anyhow.

But that's not the full story is it... he had a fortune to spend this summer...WAY more than Kenny wasted that year...

Over 100M this season alone out of which I can commend him only on the purchase of Can... who cost around 10M... It doesn't matter who you are or which team you manage if you basically flush 90M then you are very very lucky not to get the boot.

I will be surprised if he doesn't get another year however this was as big as a debacle as I can remember in my years as a supporter. He has bought 3 good players and spent what? 200M over the course of his stay... i shudder to think... and our performances in Europe this year were fucking unforgiveable...

Even with a big Sheikh takeover the recruitment needs a sharp looking at and fucking now before we buy even more expensive dross.

 

[mark1975]

It's too much of a grey area to start leveling what money was wasted entirely on him. I think he's tried to make it fairly clear that he didn't want some of the players. As for Sterling, he's believing his own hype and ego is enough for him to walk into a Chelsea or City side, alot of players are like that. Look at the Arsenal players who've left for so called better things.

The whole recruitment system needs a reboot, we overpay, we buy for buying sakes and we identify players who don't really fill the obvious gaping holes we have. In the long term you have to hope that many of these lads will come good, but there have been times when we've needed a big name striker or midfielder and we've bought a defender instead because we couldn't get that player, cf Sakho.

That said, I don't buy the "he's only bought two/three good players" bollocks. Coutinho, Sturridge and Can have been big players for us, but likes of Sakho, Toure, Mignolet and Allen have had their moments, Sakho and Mignolet could still have big futures here, while Toure has largely been a success. When the team is playing well Allen has been a good asset (he's been inconsistent too, granted), while Moreno, Markovic, Lovren and Manquillo have all shown some degree of potential - it's certainly too early to write them all off. There are alot of top players who are proven successes that we missed out on, so you can't point at Rodgers without acknowledging that his first choice transfer targets have mostly gone on to bigger and better things. Borini and Assaidi have both proven to be relative successes on loan, Sahin most people on here creamed about for years before we got him. The rest are kids that we probably over spent on, fair enough, but we're yet to see what will happen with Ilori and Alberto - he hasn't bought many kids, as opposed to Rafa who bought about 40 kids and came out with 2 or 3 successes. Did Rodgers really want Mario? I doubt it. So it's not really a case of "he spunked away £200m", it's an exaggerated, slanted view. Did we buy poorly? In some cases yes, in other cases no, with some players it's too early to say either way. Has he had the backing or setup behind him to bring in top talent? Of course he hasn't, have a look at the list of players who've said no to us.

 

[jexykrodic]

Being realistic I'd largely stick with what I've got at present, Manager and players. We need goals, so in addition: the best striker I can afford coupled with the best AM I can get. Get coaching thereafter and promote some of the very promising youngsters.

I don't know whether this Klopp bloke is available or whether he'd be any good and I know I can't spend like Chelsea or Citeh or Mancs or Arse so continuity for me and try to build a solid unit.

We've some good players if not a great team at present and getting drive, determination and solidity would be my focus. I'd also commandeer that Dr Peter's to get inside the players heads and less of the Mum letters.

 

[Halmeister]

I think a lot of his signings have been poor, of course, but there are some good buys too. I think, while we're still signing players who are not good enough, we're at least going at it a better way than before.

Sakho - a good, young player with a big reputation when he signed. Has played well when fit.
Mignolet - a young keeper who started well, went shite, but showed the character and determination to improve.
Coutinho - we all know about him
Sturridge - likewise. Shame about the injuries
Emre Can - looks a good footballer with a decent bit of potential

I would label these successes. Mignolet the jury is still out on somewhat, but there is definitely promise and there is a keeper in there. I've been really impressed with his recovery this season and it shows that he might have the character to be a good player for us. Keepers rarely set the world alight from day one and usually spend a bit of time trying to convince people they're not shite. Look at De Gea. Obviously Mignolet is not De Gea...

Then you have the signings like Moreno, Markovic, Ilori (I've just read how much he cost. Bloody hell didn't realise it was that much!), Origi. I can see where the thinking was when we signed these, and this is one of the more promising things about the current transfer policy in my opinion. Obviously they haven't been successful as such (or are yet to play in a couple of cases), but they are definitely the right type of player we should be looking at: young, decent reputation and good potential. I think a few of these (probably not all) will improve to be good signings for us. I hope so anyway. And if not, they have decent resale value and will be moved on fairly easily.

It's the signings like Lallana, Lambert, Lovren, Allen and Borini that have annoyed me. Players we've bought that have been "Premiership Proven" (whatever that means) and were signed with the idea of settling quickly. These are the types of signings that have set us back twenty years. We've regressed in this sense; I was hoping we were past making these types of signings. Players who have performed well for their clubs - but at a lower level - which we have then gone ahead and overpaid for. These players will be extremely difficult to move on given their age and (lack of) ability. As we have seen. Lovren may yet improve and become a decent player, Allen is okay-ish in a meh sorta way, but the others will go down as flops. There's a reason why at 27 this is Lallana's first hack at a top team. I said it when we signed him. These are Rodgers' Downing signings.

The question is, how much of a say did Rodgers have in each of the models above? The group containing Borini, Allen and Lallana are definitely Rodgers' signings in my opinion, which doesn't bode well. However, the revised model of signing young players (your Markovics and Morenos) is surely the one to take the club forward and is the model which has seen us sign some of the successes we've had under Rodgers. If the dreaded Transfer Committee is the one signing the Coutinho, Sturridge, Moreno, Sakho, Markovic etc etc then we have a better shot under that than we do if it's Rodgers signing the likes of Allen, Borini, Lambert and Lallana.

Obviously, I could be entirely wrong, of course. But we do seem to be operating under a better model than before.

 

[peterhague]

I'd like him to go.

If we can get someone like Klopp in as a replacement then that's a massive bonus. But really anyone who can organise a defence and not impose terrible signings on us would be a step up.

 

[Rosco]

Yeah, we're not asking for miracles.

 

[Best Believe It]

I like Rodgers, and I think there's talent there, but he doesn't seem to be able to address mistakes quickly enough, doesn't have a reputation that can sway the minds of top players, speaks nonsense half the time and is too much a fan of himself.

In an ideal world we'd be able to give him time to develop, but at the moment the top four are beginning to pull away from us, and we need to improve at a very quick rate. We're asking a manager to be able to compete with four clubs who have better squads and are able to sign better players. I fear Rodgers is too inexperienced and too raw to be able to do it. I think we'd be stupid not to bring in Klopp. If he'd come.