The Traitor's Just Scored For The Scum (Tonight's CL Games)
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[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=37778.msg1009503#msg1009503 date=1260308528]
No Ferdinand, Vidic, O'Shea, VDS, Rooney, Giggs (+ other first teamers that i'm probably forgetting).. and United still go away and win (handily, again).
Us.. well if ONE of Gerrard, Torres or Agger is out we're making excuses and saying "If Only *X* were fit we'd have won". It really is unacceptable that we find ourselves in this situation still 5 years into Rafa's reign.
[/quote]
100% correct.
No Ferdinand, Vidic, O'Shea, VDS, Rooney, Giggs (+ other first teamers that i'm probably forgetting).. and United still go away and win (handily, again).
Us.. well if ONE of Gerrard, Torres or Agger is out we're making excuses and saying "If Only *X* were fit we'd have won". It really is unacceptable that we find ourselves in this situation still 5 years into Rafa's reign.
[/quote]
100% correct.
[quote author=themn link=topic=37778.msg1009533#msg1009533 date=1260310106]
[quote author=Roopy link=topic=37778.msg1009530#msg1009530 date=1260309869]
Great performance by Bayern today.
[/quote]
Yes, but what the fuck happened to Juve ?
1-0 up at home, then folded like a cheap whore etc...
[/quote]
What happened to Juventus?
Nothing, Bayern were just the better team on the night hands down.
Gomes and Olic (Who I rate highly) were very good up front tonight.... and Schweinsteiger and Van Bommel were excellent in the central areas - not allowing Diego to get much influence on the game.
[quote author=Roopy link=topic=37778.msg1009530#msg1009530 date=1260309869]
Great performance by Bayern today.
[/quote]
Yes, but what the fuck happened to Juve ?
1-0 up at home, then folded like a cheap whore etc...
[/quote]
What happened to Juventus?
Nothing, Bayern were just the better team on the night hands down.
Gomes and Olic (Who I rate highly) were very good up front tonight.... and Schweinsteiger and Van Bommel were excellent in the central areas - not allowing Diego to get much influence on the game.
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37778.msg1009531#msg1009531 date=1260309878]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=37778.msg1009503#msg1009503 date=1260308528]
No Ferdinand, Vidic, O'Shea, VDS, Rooney, Giggs (+ other first teamers that i'm probably forgetting).. and United still go away and win (handily, again).
Us.. well if ONE of Gerrard, Torres or Agger is out we're making excuses and saying "If Only *X* were fit we'd have won". It really is unacceptable that we find ourselves in this situation still 5 years into Rafa's reign.
[/quote]
100% correct.
[/quote]
Not really since, we've lost all of them and more to injury.
We beat Utd without Torres last season and without Gerrard this season.
For the past 5 years our strength in depth has no-where been anything like Utds. They can squander millions on the likes of Nani and Anderson. We can't.
Other this season, we've successfully qualified for the CL and even nearly won the PL. Something we never managed for the past 20 odd years.
How short everyones memories are during Rafas one bad season. Incredible.
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=37778.msg1009503#msg1009503 date=1260308528]
No Ferdinand, Vidic, O'Shea, VDS, Rooney, Giggs (+ other first teamers that i'm probably forgetting).. and United still go away and win (handily, again).
Us.. well if ONE of Gerrard, Torres or Agger is out we're making excuses and saying "If Only *X* were fit we'd have won". It really is unacceptable that we find ourselves in this situation still 5 years into Rafa's reign.
[/quote]
100% correct.
[/quote]
Not really since, we've lost all of them and more to injury.
We beat Utd without Torres last season and without Gerrard this season.
For the past 5 years our strength in depth has no-where been anything like Utds. They can squander millions on the likes of Nani and Anderson. We can't.
Other this season, we've successfully qualified for the CL and even nearly won the PL. Something we never managed for the past 20 odd years.
How short everyones memories are during Rafas one bad season. Incredible.
[quote author=Roopy link=topic=37778.msg1009538#msg1009538 date=1260310419]
[quote author=themn link=topic=37778.msg1009533#msg1009533 date=1260310106]
[quote author=Roopy link=topic=37778.msg1009530#msg1009530 date=1260309869]
Great performance by Bayern today.
[/quote]
Yes, but what the fuck happened to Juve ?
1-0 up at home, then folded like a cheap whore etc...
[/quote]
What happened to Juventus?
Nothing, Bayern were just the better team on the night hands down.
Gomes and Olic (Who I rate highly) were very good up front tonight.... and Schweinsteiger and Van Bommel were excellent in the central areas - not allowing Diego to get much influence on the game.
[/quote]
I was being rhetorical an' shit, but, yeah !
[quote author=themn link=topic=37778.msg1009533#msg1009533 date=1260310106]
[quote author=Roopy link=topic=37778.msg1009530#msg1009530 date=1260309869]
Great performance by Bayern today.
[/quote]
Yes, but what the fuck happened to Juve ?
1-0 up at home, then folded like a cheap whore etc...
[/quote]
What happened to Juventus?
Nothing, Bayern were just the better team on the night hands down.
Gomes and Olic (Who I rate highly) were very good up front tonight.... and Schweinsteiger and Van Bommel were excellent in the central areas - not allowing Diego to get much influence on the game.
[/quote]
I was being rhetorical an' shit, but, yeah !
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=37778.msg1009560#msg1009560 date=1260311700]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37778.msg1009531#msg1009531 date=1260309878]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=37778.msg1009503#msg1009503 date=1260308528]
No Ferdinand, Vidic, O'Shea, VDS, Rooney, Giggs (+ other first teamers that i'm probably forgetting).. and United still go away and win (handily, again).
Us.. well if ONE of Gerrard, Torres or Agger is out we're making excuses and saying "If Only *X* were fit we'd have won". It really is unacceptable that we find ourselves in this situation still 5 years into Rafa's reign.
[/quote]
100% correct.
[/quote]
Not really since, we've lost all of them and more to injury.
We beat Utd without Torres last season and without Gerrard this season.
For the past 5 years our strength in depth has no-where been anything like Utds. They can squander millions on the likes of Nani and Anderson. We can't.
Other this season, we've successfully qualified for the CL and even nearly won the PL. Something we never managed for the past 20 odd years.
How short everyones memories are during Rafas one bad season. Incredible.
[/quote]
You to be balanced but then you get utterly one sided views on our manager and team.
Nani and Anderson would walk into the team we put out against Blackburn. Fact.
Rafa has had two good seasons domestically since he arrived. Fact.
He has also had two outstanding seasons in Europe, two very good seasons in Europe and two woeful failures in Europe during his tenure. Fact.
Suggesting that this season is his first "blip" in terms of chasing the league is just baseless fantasy and renders your comment of "How short everyones memories are during Rafas one bad season", ironic in the extreme.
As I've said before I can't see, at this point in time, a vaguely logical argument to get rid of Rafa but that doesn't for one second convince me that he is doing a great job. He isn't and the fact there is not a good solution available to our current woes does not vindicate him personally.
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37778.msg1009531#msg1009531 date=1260309878]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=37778.msg1009503#msg1009503 date=1260308528]
No Ferdinand, Vidic, O'Shea, VDS, Rooney, Giggs (+ other first teamers that i'm probably forgetting).. and United still go away and win (handily, again).
Us.. well if ONE of Gerrard, Torres or Agger is out we're making excuses and saying "If Only *X* were fit we'd have won". It really is unacceptable that we find ourselves in this situation still 5 years into Rafa's reign.
[/quote]
100% correct.
[/quote]
Not really since, we've lost all of them and more to injury.
We beat Utd without Torres last season and without Gerrard this season.
For the past 5 years our strength in depth has no-where been anything like Utds. They can squander millions on the likes of Nani and Anderson. We can't.
Other this season, we've successfully qualified for the CL and even nearly won the PL. Something we never managed for the past 20 odd years.
How short everyones memories are during Rafas one bad season. Incredible.
[/quote]
You to be balanced but then you get utterly one sided views on our manager and team.
Nani and Anderson would walk into the team we put out against Blackburn. Fact.
Rafa has had two good seasons domestically since he arrived. Fact.
He has also had two outstanding seasons in Europe, two very good seasons in Europe and two woeful failures in Europe during his tenure. Fact.
Suggesting that this season is his first "blip" in terms of chasing the league is just baseless fantasy and renders your comment of "How short everyones memories are during Rafas one bad season", ironic in the extreme.
As I've said before I can't see, at this point in time, a vaguely logical argument to get rid of Rafa but that doesn't for one second convince me that he is doing a great job. He isn't and the fact there is not a good solution available to our current woes does not vindicate him personally.
Other than Lucas, who would Nani and Anderson replace? Mascher? Gerrard? Kuyt is having a poor season but Nani and Anderson are not RW so can they play there?
Rafa has improved in the league in that we're always qualify in the CL. Fact.
I believe it is his first major blip, as he has been building to a league winning team and only just missed out last season. This was meant to be the season Liverpool truly challenges for the top spot but a series of bad luck and a lot of injuries caused it to all go wrong.
Rafa has improved in the league in that we're always qualify in the CL. Fact.
I believe it is his first major blip, as he has been building to a league winning team and only just missed out last season. This was meant to be the season Liverpool truly challenges for the top spot but a series of bad luck and a lot of injuries caused it to all go wrong.
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=37778.msg1009560#msg1009560 date=1260311700]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37778.msg1009531#msg1009531 date=1260309878]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=37778.msg1009503#msg1009503 date=1260308528]
No Ferdinand, Vidic, O'Shea, VDS, Rooney, Giggs (+ other first teamers that i'm probably forgetting).. and United still go away and win (handily, again).
Us.. well if ONE of Gerrard, Torres or Agger is out we're making excuses and saying "If Only *X* were fit we'd have won". It really is unacceptable that we find ourselves in this situation still 5 years into Rafa's reign.
[/quote]
100% correct.
[/quote]
Not really since, we've lost all of them and more to injury.
We beat Utd without Torres last season and without Gerrard this season.
For the past 5 years our strength in depth has no-where been anything like Utds. They can squander millions on the likes of Nani and Anderson. We can't.
Other this season, we've successfully qualified for the CL and even nearly won the PL. Something we never managed for the past 20 odd years.
How short everyones memories are during Rafas one bad season. Incredible.
[/quote]
Whatever team the Mancs put out, more than often they manage to play attractive attacking football. It is a credit to Ferguson that after all these years, he has stuck to that philosophy. They buy players to fit that philosophy and thats why they are able to extract the maximum out of each player.
We did that last season. Irrespective of whether Gerrard and Torres played, we played some breathtaking attacking football. It is no coincidence that we displayed the swagger, the belief of champions when we played that way- pummeling opposition into submission, late comebacks, injury time winners etc.
This season we have lost that - period. Injuries have played a role - no doubt about it. But we also seem to be paranoid of playing one attacking CM. Based on the last two performances, I am guessing that Rafa has decided that the way out of this shit form is back to the wall defending and hope that our strikers will convert the only chance or two we create.
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37778.msg1009531#msg1009531 date=1260309878]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=37778.msg1009503#msg1009503 date=1260308528]
No Ferdinand, Vidic, O'Shea, VDS, Rooney, Giggs (+ other first teamers that i'm probably forgetting).. and United still go away and win (handily, again).
Us.. well if ONE of Gerrard, Torres or Agger is out we're making excuses and saying "If Only *X* were fit we'd have won". It really is unacceptable that we find ourselves in this situation still 5 years into Rafa's reign.
[/quote]
100% correct.
[/quote]
Not really since, we've lost all of them and more to injury.
We beat Utd without Torres last season and without Gerrard this season.
For the past 5 years our strength in depth has no-where been anything like Utds. They can squander millions on the likes of Nani and Anderson. We can't.
Other this season, we've successfully qualified for the CL and even nearly won the PL. Something we never managed for the past 20 odd years.
How short everyones memories are during Rafas one bad season. Incredible.
[/quote]
Whatever team the Mancs put out, more than often they manage to play attractive attacking football. It is a credit to Ferguson that after all these years, he has stuck to that philosophy. They buy players to fit that philosophy and thats why they are able to extract the maximum out of each player.
We did that last season. Irrespective of whether Gerrard and Torres played, we played some breathtaking attacking football. It is no coincidence that we displayed the swagger, the belief of champions when we played that way- pummeling opposition into submission, late comebacks, injury time winners etc.
This season we have lost that - period. Injuries have played a role - no doubt about it. But we also seem to be paranoid of playing one attacking CM. Based on the last two performances, I am guessing that Rafa has decided that the way out of this shit form is back to the wall defending and hope that our strikers will convert the only chance or two we create.
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=37778.msg1009625#msg1009625 date=1260317951]
Other than Lucas, who would Nani and Anderson replace? Mascher? Gerrard? Kuyt is having a poor season but Nani and Anderson are not RW so can they play there?
Rafa has improved in the league in that we're always qualify in the CL. Fact.
I believe it is his first major blip, as he has been building to a league winning team and only just missed out last season. This was meant to be the season Liverpool truly challenges for the top spot but a series of bad luck and a lot of injuries caused it to all go wrong.
[/quote]
Anderson would replace Lucas and Nani can play left or right so would simply displace either since we've been dreadful on both sides this season.
Your last statement is also missing another fundamental reason for our failure. That is, we're desperately lacking in quality all over the pitch. Yes, we've been had a few injuries and a modicum of bad luck. But these are the sorts of challenges that top teams deal with. The fact of the matter is, injuries and bad luck have exacerbated the underlying problem, which is, we simply weren't well enough equipped in the first place.
Other than Lucas, who would Nani and Anderson replace? Mascher? Gerrard? Kuyt is having a poor season but Nani and Anderson are not RW so can they play there?
Rafa has improved in the league in that we're always qualify in the CL. Fact.
I believe it is his first major blip, as he has been building to a league winning team and only just missed out last season. This was meant to be the season Liverpool truly challenges for the top spot but a series of bad luck and a lot of injuries caused it to all go wrong.
[/quote]
Anderson would replace Lucas and Nani can play left or right so would simply displace either since we've been dreadful on both sides this season.
Your last statement is also missing another fundamental reason for our failure. That is, we're desperately lacking in quality all over the pitch. Yes, we've been had a few injuries and a modicum of bad luck. But these are the sorts of challenges that top teams deal with. The fact of the matter is, injuries and bad luck have exacerbated the underlying problem, which is, we simply weren't well enough equipped in the first place.
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=37778.msg1009560#msg1009560 date=1260311700]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37778.msg1009531#msg1009531 date=1260309878]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=37778.msg1009503#msg1009503 date=1260308528]
No Ferdinand, Vidic, O'Shea, VDS, Rooney, Giggs (+ other first teamers that i'm probably forgetting).. and United still go away and win (handily, again).
Us.. well if ONE of Gerrard, Torres or Agger is out we're making excuses and saying "If Only *X* were fit we'd have won". It really is unacceptable that we find ourselves in this situation still 5 years into Rafa's reign.
[/quote]
100% correct.
[/quote]
Not really since, we've lost all of them and more to injury.
We beat Utd without Torres last season and without Gerrard this season.
For the past 5 years our strength in depth has no-where been anything like Utds. They can squander millions on the likes of Nani and Anderson. We can't.
Other this season, we've successfully qualified for the CL and even nearly won the PL. Something we never managed for the past 20 odd years.
How short everyones memories are during Rafas one bad season. Incredible.
[/quote]
My memory isn't shrot we've been using these excuses for 5 years.
And we have not lost all of them at the same time.
And the point is that without our key players our stlye of play goes out the window.
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=37778.msg1009531#msg1009531 date=1260309878]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=37778.msg1009503#msg1009503 date=1260308528]
No Ferdinand, Vidic, O'Shea, VDS, Rooney, Giggs (+ other first teamers that i'm probably forgetting).. and United still go away and win (handily, again).
Us.. well if ONE of Gerrard, Torres or Agger is out we're making excuses and saying "If Only *X* were fit we'd have won". It really is unacceptable that we find ourselves in this situation still 5 years into Rafa's reign.
[/quote]
100% correct.
[/quote]
Not really since, we've lost all of them and more to injury.
We beat Utd without Torres last season and without Gerrard this season.
For the past 5 years our strength in depth has no-where been anything like Utds. They can squander millions on the likes of Nani and Anderson. We can't.
Other this season, we've successfully qualified for the CL and even nearly won the PL. Something we never managed for the past 20 odd years.
How short everyones memories are during Rafas one bad season. Incredible.
[/quote]
My memory isn't shrot we've been using these excuses for 5 years.
And we have not lost all of them at the same time.
And the point is that without our key players our stlye of play goes out the window.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37778.msg1009651#msg1009651 date=1260321138]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=37778.msg1009625#msg1009625 date=1260317951]
Other than Lucas, who would Nani and Anderson replace? Mascher? Gerrard? Kuyt is having a poor season but Nani and Anderson are not RW so can they play there?
Rafa has improved in the league in that we're always qualify in the CL. Fact.
I believe it is his first major blip, as he has been building to a league winning team and only just missed out last season. This was meant to be the season Liverpool truly challenges for the top spot but a series of bad luck and a lot of injuries caused it to all go wrong.
[/quote]
Anderson would replace Lucas and Nani can play left or right so would simply displace either since we've been dreadful on both sides this season.
Your last statement is also missing another fundamental reason for our failure. That is, we're desperately lacking in quality all over the pitch. Yes, we've been had a few injuries and a modicum of bad luck. But these are the sorts of challenges that top teams deal with. The fact of the matter is, injuries and bad luck have exacerbated the underlying problem, which is, we simply weren't well enough equipped in the first place.
[/quote]
Good post.
And if after 5 years we are not equipped to be able to beat the likes of Blackburn or Sunderland away with injuries then its the maangers fault more so than anyone else.
We aren't even playing well. Everton should have beaten us.
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=37778.msg1009625#msg1009625 date=1260317951]
Other than Lucas, who would Nani and Anderson replace? Mascher? Gerrard? Kuyt is having a poor season but Nani and Anderson are not RW so can they play there?
Rafa has improved in the league in that we're always qualify in the CL. Fact.
I believe it is his first major blip, as he has been building to a league winning team and only just missed out last season. This was meant to be the season Liverpool truly challenges for the top spot but a series of bad luck and a lot of injuries caused it to all go wrong.
[/quote]
Anderson would replace Lucas and Nani can play left or right so would simply displace either since we've been dreadful on both sides this season.
Your last statement is also missing another fundamental reason for our failure. That is, we're desperately lacking in quality all over the pitch. Yes, we've been had a few injuries and a modicum of bad luck. But these are the sorts of challenges that top teams deal with. The fact of the matter is, injuries and bad luck have exacerbated the underlying problem, which is, we simply weren't well enough equipped in the first place.
[/quote]
Good post.
And if after 5 years we are not equipped to be able to beat the likes of Blackburn or Sunderland away with injuries then its the maangers fault more so than anyone else.
We aren't even playing well. Everton should have beaten us.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37778.msg1009651#msg1009651 date=1260321138]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=37778.msg1009625#msg1009625 date=1260317951]
Other than Lucas, who would Nani and Anderson replace? Mascher? Gerrard? Kuyt is having a poor season but Nani and Anderson are not RW so can they play there?
Rafa has improved in the league in that we're always qualify in the CL. Fact.
I believe it is his first major blip, as he has been building to a league winning team and only just missed out last season. This was meant to be the season Liverpool truly challenges for the top spot but a series of bad luck and a lot of injuries caused it to all go wrong.
[/quote]
Anderson would replace Lucas and Nani can play left or right so would simply displace either since we've been dreadful on both sides this season.
Your last statement is also missing another fundamental reason for our failure. That is, we're desperately lacking in quality all over the pitch. Yes, we've been had a few injuries and a modicum of bad luck. But these are the sorts of challenges that top teams deal with. The fact of the matter is, injuries and bad luck have exacerbated the underlying problem, which is, we simply weren't well enough equipped in the first place.
[/quote]
My original post said we had a problem in the strength of our squad. We simply don't have the cash and have resorted to bargain buckets. We haven't been a top team for 2 decades, we've been in the top four, granted but guess what - always in fourth position with the occasional blip to 3rd or even 2nd and those are rare.
Our glory days are truly over and it is a case of building. Rafa has done this, he's achieved consistent CL qualification and formed a basis of a very good first team that can beat, no thrash any team in the world. In every way we're similar to Arsenal, who also haven't many trophies lately.
Time is what is needed, just like Fergie had. Or a shit load of cash like Chelsea.
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=37778.msg1009625#msg1009625 date=1260317951]
Other than Lucas, who would Nani and Anderson replace? Mascher? Gerrard? Kuyt is having a poor season but Nani and Anderson are not RW so can they play there?
Rafa has improved in the league in that we're always qualify in the CL. Fact.
I believe it is his first major blip, as he has been building to a league winning team and only just missed out last season. This was meant to be the season Liverpool truly challenges for the top spot but a series of bad luck and a lot of injuries caused it to all go wrong.
[/quote]
Anderson would replace Lucas and Nani can play left or right so would simply displace either since we've been dreadful on both sides this season.
Your last statement is also missing another fundamental reason for our failure. That is, we're desperately lacking in quality all over the pitch. Yes, we've been had a few injuries and a modicum of bad luck. But these are the sorts of challenges that top teams deal with. The fact of the matter is, injuries and bad luck have exacerbated the underlying problem, which is, we simply weren't well enough equipped in the first place.
[/quote]
My original post said we had a problem in the strength of our squad. We simply don't have the cash and have resorted to bargain buckets. We haven't been a top team for 2 decades, we've been in the top four, granted but guess what - always in fourth position with the occasional blip to 3rd or even 2nd and those are rare.
Our glory days are truly over and it is a case of building. Rafa has done this, he's achieved consistent CL qualification and formed a basis of a very good first team that can beat, no thrash any team in the world. In every way we're similar to Arsenal, who also haven't many trophies lately.
Time is what is needed, just like Fergie had. Or a shit load of cash like Chelsea.
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=37778.msg1009687#msg1009687 date=1260332092]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37778.msg1009651#msg1009651 date=1260321138]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=37778.msg1009625#msg1009625 date=1260317951]
Other than Lucas, who would Nani and Anderson replace? Mascher? Gerrard? Kuyt is having a poor season but Nani and Anderson are not RW so can they play there?
Rafa has improved in the league in that we're always qualify in the CL. Fact.
I believe it is his first major blip, as he has been building to a league winning team and only just missed out last season. This was meant to be the season Liverpool truly challenges for the top spot but a series of bad luck and a lot of injuries caused it to all go wrong.
[/quote]
Anderson would replace Lucas and Nani can play left or right so would simply displace either since we've been dreadful on both sides this season.
Your last statement is also missing another fundamental reason for our failure. That is, we're desperately lacking in quality all over the pitch. Yes, we've been had a few injuries and a modicum of bad luck. But these are the sorts of challenges that top teams deal with. The fact of the matter is, injuries and bad luck have exacerbated the underlying problem, which is, we simply weren't well enough equipped in the first place.
[/quote]
My original post said we had a problem in the strength of our squad. We simply don't have the cash and have resorted to bargain buckets. We haven't been a top team for 2 decades, we've been in the top four, granted but guess what - always in fourth position with the occasional blip to 3rd or even 2nd and those are rare.
Our glory days are truly over and it is a case of building. Rafa has done this, he's achieved consistent CL qualification and formed a basis of a very good first team that can beat, no thrash any team in the world. In every way we're similar to Arsenal, who also haven't many trophies lately.
Time is what is needed, just like Fergie had. Or a shit load of cash like Chelsea.
[/quote]
I can't quite work out if your back pedalling or not Mullet. Your original post was focused on the fact that we are not a one man team; Torres out we beat the mancs, Gerrard out we beat them as well. Therefore we're not a one man team. Also that Rafa has improved us constantly and that this is the first blip (shortcoming?) he's had since he took over.
Now you're saying that we don't have the depth of squad that the mancs have but Rafa is still doing well and, somehow, wer'e similar to Arsenal in every way.
To start with, Rafa has spent a packet more than any other LFC manager but we've got Gerrard, Mascher, Torres and, a stretch, Agger. GH bought in Didi (easily Mascher's equal) and Sami (easily Aggers equal). We had Gerrard, Owen and Fowler. The point is that Rafa hasn't improved the quality much if at all in 5 years; the squad depth is, if anything, worse than it was.
Rafa is doing well because we consistently qualify top 4; well we've been doing that with one exception all decade. Rafa himself missed it in his first season though he well and truly compensated with a CL.
The comparison to Arsenal truly has me baffled; we certainly don't have the youth that they have, nothing like the playing style, we look well short on potential and they have immense depth in their squad.
There are plenty of reasons that Rafa should not be sacked and plenty of things that he's done well; why you seem to want to focus on the areas of question are mystifying.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37778.msg1009651#msg1009651 date=1260321138]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=37778.msg1009625#msg1009625 date=1260317951]
Other than Lucas, who would Nani and Anderson replace? Mascher? Gerrard? Kuyt is having a poor season but Nani and Anderson are not RW so can they play there?
Rafa has improved in the league in that we're always qualify in the CL. Fact.
I believe it is his first major blip, as he has been building to a league winning team and only just missed out last season. This was meant to be the season Liverpool truly challenges for the top spot but a series of bad luck and a lot of injuries caused it to all go wrong.
[/quote]
Anderson would replace Lucas and Nani can play left or right so would simply displace either since we've been dreadful on both sides this season.
Your last statement is also missing another fundamental reason for our failure. That is, we're desperately lacking in quality all over the pitch. Yes, we've been had a few injuries and a modicum of bad luck. But these are the sorts of challenges that top teams deal with. The fact of the matter is, injuries and bad luck have exacerbated the underlying problem, which is, we simply weren't well enough equipped in the first place.
[/quote]
My original post said we had a problem in the strength of our squad. We simply don't have the cash and have resorted to bargain buckets. We haven't been a top team for 2 decades, we've been in the top four, granted but guess what - always in fourth position with the occasional blip to 3rd or even 2nd and those are rare.
Our glory days are truly over and it is a case of building. Rafa has done this, he's achieved consistent CL qualification and formed a basis of a very good first team that can beat, no thrash any team in the world. In every way we're similar to Arsenal, who also haven't many trophies lately.
Time is what is needed, just like Fergie had. Or a shit load of cash like Chelsea.
[/quote]
I can't quite work out if your back pedalling or not Mullet. Your original post was focused on the fact that we are not a one man team; Torres out we beat the mancs, Gerrard out we beat them as well. Therefore we're not a one man team. Also that Rafa has improved us constantly and that this is the first blip (shortcoming?) he's had since he took over.
Now you're saying that we don't have the depth of squad that the mancs have but Rafa is still doing well and, somehow, wer'e similar to Arsenal in every way.
To start with, Rafa has spent a packet more than any other LFC manager but we've got Gerrard, Mascher, Torres and, a stretch, Agger. GH bought in Didi (easily Mascher's equal) and Sami (easily Aggers equal). We had Gerrard, Owen and Fowler. The point is that Rafa hasn't improved the quality much if at all in 5 years; the squad depth is, if anything, worse than it was.
Rafa is doing well because we consistently qualify top 4; well we've been doing that with one exception all decade. Rafa himself missed it in his first season though he well and truly compensated with a CL.
The comparison to Arsenal truly has me baffled; we certainly don't have the youth that they have, nothing like the playing style, we look well short on potential and they have immense depth in their squad.
There are plenty of reasons that Rafa should not be sacked and plenty of things that he's done well; why you seem to want to focus on the areas of question are mystifying.
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=37778.msg1009687#msg1009687 date=1260332092]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37778.msg1009651#msg1009651 date=1260321138]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=37778.msg1009625#msg1009625 date=1260317951]
Other than Lucas, who would Nani and Anderson replace? Mascher? Gerrard? Kuyt is having a poor season but Nani and Anderson are not RW so can they play there?
Rafa has improved in the league in that we're always qualify in the CL. Fact.
I believe it is his first major blip, as he has been building to a league winning team and only just missed out last season. This was meant to be the season Liverpool truly challenges for the top spot but a series of bad luck and a lot of injuries caused it to all go wrong.
[/quote]
Anderson would replace Lucas and Nani can play left or right so would simply displace either since we've been dreadful on both sides this season.
Your last statement is also missing another fundamental reason for our failure. That is, we're desperately lacking in quality all over the pitch. Yes, we've been had a few injuries and a modicum of bad luck. But these are the sorts of challenges that top teams deal with. The fact of the matter is, injuries and bad luck have exacerbated the underlying problem, which is, we simply weren't well enough equipped in the first place.
[/quote]
My original post said we had a problem in the strength of our squad. We simply don't have the cash and have resorted to bargain buckets. We haven't been a top team for 2 decades, we've been in the top four, granted but guess what - always in fourth position with the occasional blip to 3rd or even 2nd and those are rare.
Our glory days are truly over and it is a case of building. Rafa has done this, he's achieved consistent CL qualification and formed a basis of a very good first team that can beat, no thrash any team in the world. In every way we're similar to Arsenal, who also haven't many trophies lately.
Time is what is needed, just like Fergie had. Or a shit load of cash like Chelsea.
[/quote]
Without wanting to get into another pointless debate on spending. Rafa has had just as much if not more to spend than the Scum and most other teams.
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37778.msg1009651#msg1009651 date=1260321138]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=37778.msg1009625#msg1009625 date=1260317951]
Other than Lucas, who would Nani and Anderson replace? Mascher? Gerrard? Kuyt is having a poor season but Nani and Anderson are not RW so can they play there?
Rafa has improved in the league in that we're always qualify in the CL. Fact.
I believe it is his first major blip, as he has been building to a league winning team and only just missed out last season. This was meant to be the season Liverpool truly challenges for the top spot but a series of bad luck and a lot of injuries caused it to all go wrong.
[/quote]
Anderson would replace Lucas and Nani can play left or right so would simply displace either since we've been dreadful on both sides this season.
Your last statement is also missing another fundamental reason for our failure. That is, we're desperately lacking in quality all over the pitch. Yes, we've been had a few injuries and a modicum of bad luck. But these are the sorts of challenges that top teams deal with. The fact of the matter is, injuries and bad luck have exacerbated the underlying problem, which is, we simply weren't well enough equipped in the first place.
[/quote]
My original post said we had a problem in the strength of our squad. We simply don't have the cash and have resorted to bargain buckets. We haven't been a top team for 2 decades, we've been in the top four, granted but guess what - always in fourth position with the occasional blip to 3rd or even 2nd and those are rare.
Our glory days are truly over and it is a case of building. Rafa has done this, he's achieved consistent CL qualification and formed a basis of a very good first team that can beat, no thrash any team in the world. In every way we're similar to Arsenal, who also haven't many trophies lately.
Time is what is needed, just like Fergie had. Or a shit load of cash like Chelsea.
[/quote]
Without wanting to get into another pointless debate on spending. Rafa has had just as much if not more to spend than the Scum and most other teams.
Let us not do the "we spent less than XYZ" again.
Needless to say, we all want more money to spend. And we all wish it could have been spent a little more wisely in certain areas.
Needless to say, we all want more money to spend. And we all wish it could have been spent a little more wisely in certain areas.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=37778.msg1009693#msg1009693 date=1260335240]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=37778.msg1009687#msg1009687 date=1260332092]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37778.msg1009651#msg1009651 date=1260321138]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=37778.msg1009625#msg1009625 date=1260317951]
Other than Lucas, who would Nani and Anderson replace? Mascher? Gerrard? Kuyt is having a poor season but Nani and Anderson are not RW so can they play there?
Rafa has improved in the league in that we're always qualify in the CL. Fact.
I believe it is his first major blip, as he has been building to a league winning team and only just missed out last season. This was meant to be the season Liverpool truly challenges for the top spot but a series of bad luck and a lot of injuries caused it to all go wrong.
[/quote]
Anderson would replace Lucas and Nani can play left or right so would simply displace either since we've been dreadful on both sides this season.
Your last statement is also missing another fundamental reason for our failure. That is, we're desperately lacking in quality all over the pitch. Yes, we've been had a few injuries and a modicum of bad luck. But these are the sorts of challenges that top teams deal with. The fact of the matter is, injuries and bad luck have exacerbated the underlying problem, which is, we simply weren't well enough equipped in the first place.
[/quote]
My original post said we had a problem in the strength of our squad. We simply don't have the cash and have resorted to bargain buckets. We haven't been a top team for 2 decades, we've been in the top four, granted but guess what - always in fourth position with the occasional blip to 3rd or even 2nd and those are rare.
Our glory days are truly over and it is a case of building. Rafa has done this, he's achieved consistent CL qualification and formed a basis of a very good first team that can beat, no thrash any team in the world. In every way we're similar to Arsenal, who also haven't many trophies lately.
Time is what is needed, just like Fergie had. Or a shit load of cash like Chelsea.
[/quote]
I can't quite work out if your back pedalling or not Mullet. Your original post was focused on the fact that we are not a one man team; Torres out we beat the mancs, Gerrard out we beat them as well. Therefore we're not a one man team. Also that Rafa has improved us constantly and that this is the first blip (shortcoming?) he's had since he took over.
Now you're saying that we don't have the depth of squad that the mancs have but Rafa is still doing well and, somehow, wer'e similar to Arsenal in every way.
To start with, Rafa has spent a packet more than any other LFC manager but we've got Gerrard, Mascher, Torres and, a stretch, Agger. GH bought in Didi (easily Mascher's equal) and Sami (easily Aggers equal). We had Gerrard, Owen and Fowler. The point is that Rafa hasn't improved the quality much if at all in 5 years; the squad depth is, if anything, worse than it was.
Rafa is doing well because we consistently qualify top 4; well we've been doing that with one exception all decade. Rafa himself missed it in his first season though he well and truly compensated with a CL.
The comparison to Arsenal truly has me baffled; we certainly don't have the youth that they have, nothing like the playing style, we look well short on potential and they have immense depth in their squad.
There are plenty of reasons that Rafa should not be sacked and plenty of things that he's done well; why you seem to want to focus on the areas of question are mystifying.
[/quote]
The comparison to Arsenal was purely based on trophies, they haven't won much lately and the same goes for us. Whenever they lose big players like Van Persie or Cesc they can suffer against the lesser teams as well. Their youth is better but we played some good football last season that easily equalled their playing style.
I'm not back pedaling, we aren't a one man team, more of a one team only. We don't have strength in depth, so when we essentially lose our first 11 then we play with dross. I say this because, Rafa essentially played the same team over the course of last season and we did well, whereas the seasons before he chopped and changed and the result was for us to see.
I've never said Rafa should not be sacked or not. I quite agree with you, there's no logical reason to sack him and he has his faults but he has improved the team and consistently qualifying for the CL is the example to prove that.
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=37778.msg1009687#msg1009687 date=1260332092]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=37778.msg1009651#msg1009651 date=1260321138]
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=37778.msg1009625#msg1009625 date=1260317951]
Other than Lucas, who would Nani and Anderson replace? Mascher? Gerrard? Kuyt is having a poor season but Nani and Anderson are not RW so can they play there?
Rafa has improved in the league in that we're always qualify in the CL. Fact.
I believe it is his first major blip, as he has been building to a league winning team and only just missed out last season. This was meant to be the season Liverpool truly challenges for the top spot but a series of bad luck and a lot of injuries caused it to all go wrong.
[/quote]
Anderson would replace Lucas and Nani can play left or right so would simply displace either since we've been dreadful on both sides this season.
Your last statement is also missing another fundamental reason for our failure. That is, we're desperately lacking in quality all over the pitch. Yes, we've been had a few injuries and a modicum of bad luck. But these are the sorts of challenges that top teams deal with. The fact of the matter is, injuries and bad luck have exacerbated the underlying problem, which is, we simply weren't well enough equipped in the first place.
[/quote]
My original post said we had a problem in the strength of our squad. We simply don't have the cash and have resorted to bargain buckets. We haven't been a top team for 2 decades, we've been in the top four, granted but guess what - always in fourth position with the occasional blip to 3rd or even 2nd and those are rare.
Our glory days are truly over and it is a case of building. Rafa has done this, he's achieved consistent CL qualification and formed a basis of a very good first team that can beat, no thrash any team in the world. In every way we're similar to Arsenal, who also haven't many trophies lately.
Time is what is needed, just like Fergie had. Or a shit load of cash like Chelsea.
[/quote]
I can't quite work out if your back pedalling or not Mullet. Your original post was focused on the fact that we are not a one man team; Torres out we beat the mancs, Gerrard out we beat them as well. Therefore we're not a one man team. Also that Rafa has improved us constantly and that this is the first blip (shortcoming?) he's had since he took over.
Now you're saying that we don't have the depth of squad that the mancs have but Rafa is still doing well and, somehow, wer'e similar to Arsenal in every way.
To start with, Rafa has spent a packet more than any other LFC manager but we've got Gerrard, Mascher, Torres and, a stretch, Agger. GH bought in Didi (easily Mascher's equal) and Sami (easily Aggers equal). We had Gerrard, Owen and Fowler. The point is that Rafa hasn't improved the quality much if at all in 5 years; the squad depth is, if anything, worse than it was.
Rafa is doing well because we consistently qualify top 4; well we've been doing that with one exception all decade. Rafa himself missed it in his first season though he well and truly compensated with a CL.
The comparison to Arsenal truly has me baffled; we certainly don't have the youth that they have, nothing like the playing style, we look well short on potential and they have immense depth in their squad.
There are plenty of reasons that Rafa should not be sacked and plenty of things that he's done well; why you seem to want to focus on the areas of question are mystifying.
[/quote]
The comparison to Arsenal was purely based on trophies, they haven't won much lately and the same goes for us. Whenever they lose big players like Van Persie or Cesc they can suffer against the lesser teams as well. Their youth is better but we played some good football last season that easily equalled their playing style.
I'm not back pedaling, we aren't a one man team, more of a one team only. We don't have strength in depth, so when we essentially lose our first 11 then we play with dross. I say this because, Rafa essentially played the same team over the course of last season and we did well, whereas the seasons before he chopped and changed and the result was for us to see.
I've never said Rafa should not be sacked or not. I quite agree with you, there's no logical reason to sack him and he has his faults but he has improved the team and consistently qualifying for the CL is the example to prove that.
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=37778.msg1009560#msg1009560 date=1260311700]
Not really since, we've lost all of them and more to injury.
We beat Utd without Torres last season and without Gerrard this season.
For the past 5 years our strength in depth has no-where been anything like Utds. They can squander millions on the likes of Nani and Anderson. We can't.
Other this season, we've successfully qualified for the CL and even nearly won the PL. Something we never managed for the past 20 odd years.
How short everyones memories are during Rafas one bad season. Incredible.
[/quote]
It'd hardly one bad season though is it?
We've challenged for the league once from the last 5years during Rafa's reign.
The only good seasons we've had with him was last year and 2005 (only due to the CL win). Even that year we came 5th (behind Everton, who don't have half of our resources) we (embarrassingly) needed a change of rules to qualify for the CL too.
I saw genuine progress last year, but it seems like that was the exception rather than the rule.
Edit: Just read Wizardry's posts and as ever, he seems spot on and covers most of my qualms over our current plight. I don't want Rafa to be sacked (the owners need to go first) but Rafa is hardly doing a "great" job with the money he's spent and the success we've had.
Not really since, we've lost all of them and more to injury.
We beat Utd without Torres last season and without Gerrard this season.
For the past 5 years our strength in depth has no-where been anything like Utds. They can squander millions on the likes of Nani and Anderson. We can't.
Other this season, we've successfully qualified for the CL and even nearly won the PL. Something we never managed for the past 20 odd years.
How short everyones memories are during Rafas one bad season. Incredible.
[/quote]
It'd hardly one bad season though is it?
We've challenged for the league once from the last 5years during Rafa's reign.
The only good seasons we've had with him was last year and 2005 (only due to the CL win). Even that year we came 5th (behind Everton, who don't have half of our resources) we (embarrassingly) needed a change of rules to qualify for the CL too.
I saw genuine progress last year, but it seems like that was the exception rather than the rule.
Edit: Just read Wizardry's posts and as ever, he seems spot on and covers most of my qualms over our current plight. I don't want Rafa to be sacked (the owners need to go first) but Rafa is hardly doing a "great" job with the money he's spent and the success we've had.
A few weeks ago there was a report in "The Times" about a couple of statisticians who measured Prem teams' actual performance against their respective wage bills to see which manager had provided best value on that particular indicator over the past few years. Rafa came out ahead of both Ferguson and Wenger. Ancelotti wasn't included as he's not been with the Chavs for long.
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=37778.msg1010006#msg1010006 date=1260370383]
A few weeks ago there was a report in "The Times" about a couple of statisticians who measured Prem teams' actual performance against their respective wage bills to see which manager had provided best value on that particular indicator over the past few years. Rafa came out ahead of both Ferguson and Wenger. Ancelotti wasn't included as he's not been with the Chavs for long.
[/quote]
That's wage not wage + transfers surely.
A few weeks ago there was a report in "The Times" about a couple of statisticians who measured Prem teams' actual performance against their respective wage bills to see which manager had provided best value on that particular indicator over the past few years. Rafa came out ahead of both Ferguson and Wenger. Ancelotti wasn't included as he's not been with the Chavs for long.
[/quote]
That's wage not wage + transfers surely.
Correct, but it's still worth remembering.
Rafa's record in the transfer market overall isn't uniformly awful either. In terms of big transfers he's generally got it right, with the glaring exception of Robbie Keane. It's the lesser deals that he's got around his neck too often.
Rafa's record in the transfer market overall isn't uniformly awful either. In terms of big transfers he's generally got it right, with the glaring exception of Robbie Keane. It's the lesser deals that he's got around his neck too often.
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