The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

[rubans]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1460815#msg1460815 date=1326145812]
[quote author=rubans link=topic=47188.msg1460811#msg1460811 date=1326145590]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1460808#msg1460808 date=1326145371]
Its ok I'm bored of reading rubans aimless posts now.
[/quote]
Nice one, all said is I disgree yet you keep banging on, I'm bored of you too.
[/quote]

No you said you disagreed without basing it on anything. Its a decision without foundation. Have your opinion by all means but it really doesn't mean much in the way you've presented it
[/quote]
Didn't I just say I based it on the report and it's finding, please do read it. So is this how it goes now, if someone disagrees, they get a reposts of the same links till they get bored.
Not bothered if my opinion doesn't much, as far as I know, I'm not bidding for an election.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=rubans link=topic=47188.msg1460819#msg1460819 date=1326145994]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1460815#msg1460815 date=1326145812]
[quote author=rubans link=topic=47188.msg1460811#msg1460811 date=1326145590]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1460808#msg1460808 date=1326145371]
Its ok I'm bored of reading rubans aimless posts now.
[/quote]
Nice one, all said is I disgree yet you keep banging on, I'm bored of you too.
[/quote]

No you said you disagreed without basing it on anything. Its a decision without foundation. Have your opinion by all means but it really doesn't mean much in the way you've presented it
[/quote]
Didn't I just say I based it on the report and it's finding, please do read it. So is this how it goes now, if someone disagrees, they get a reposts of the same links till they get bored.
Not bothered if my opinion doesn't much, as far as I know, I'm not bidding for an election.
[/quote]

Respectfully, mate, it's not that you disagree - It's that you acknowledge that you haven't read the report properly - you got bored - so how on earth could you know whether or not you agree with it's outcome... If you didn't read the report, what exactly are you basing your opinion on that same report on?

 

[rubans]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1460828#msg1460828 date=1326146776]
[quote author=rubans link=topic=47188.msg1460819#msg1460819 date=1326145994]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1460815#msg1460815 date=1326145812]
[quote author=rubans link=topic=47188.msg1460811#msg1460811 date=1326145590]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1460808#msg1460808 date=1326145371]
Its ok I'm bored of reading rubans aimless posts now.
[/quote]
Nice one, all said is I disgree yet you keep banging on, I'm bored of you too.
[/quote]

No you said you disagreed without basing it on anything. Its a decision without foundation. Have your opinion by all means but it really doesn't mean much in the way you've presented it
[/quote]
Didn't I just say I based it on the report and it's finding, please do read it. So is this how it goes now, if someone disagrees, they get a reposts of the same links till they get bored.
Not bothered if my opinion doesn't much, as far as I know, I'm not bidding for an election.
[/quote]

Respectfully, mate, it's not that you disagree - It's that you acknowledge that you haven't read the report properly - you got bored - so how on earth could you know whether or not you agree with it's outcome... If you didn't read the report, what exactly are you basing your opinion on that same report on?
[/quote]
Not all 112 pages or whatever it is, no I have not. Have you??
But have been informed that only some of the pages actually contain the meat of the report.
So you have read every page of the report?
Has everyone else who disagrees with your view too, if that is the case then you are right. I'm not as informed as you or the others then. Best get my printer out.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1460792#msg1460792 date=1326144299]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1460778#msg1460778 date=1326143826]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1460775#msg1460775 date=1326143575]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1460771#msg1460771 date=1326143436]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1460677#msg1460677 date=1326132855]
Rubans have you read the report?

Even the people on here who feel that he deserved a ban, feel that it is far too long.
[/quote]I dont.
[/quote]

I don't believe it was a fair trial. My stance on the court has always been what's likely to happen, not what should. In my mind was clear as day what the FA were going to do w

And I say the exact same thing to you. And I'd ask the exact same questions of you.
[/quote]Oh mate im done reading all these long posts in here. I just noticed that little one ther that i disagreed with.
So in answer to your question, whatever answer suits my statement is the one I go with.
[/quote]

Ok. So you're satisfied that Suarez has been treated fairly throughout all of this and if this exact scenario were to happen to you or one of yours, you'd feel that you got a fair trial and justice was served..?
[/quote]

I'm not satisfied Suarez received a fair trial, no. It was clear as day what the FA were going to about this from day one. They've got their own narrative to weave and it was all depressingly predictable. That said, Suarez is no brother of mine nor yours. I don't know what he said, neither do the club or anyone else bar those two on the pitch. The FA have little evidence to suggest he did commit the act - not enough to convict by reasonable standards. But that doesn't mean he didn't do it. After all, Suarez has bitten people in the past, dives fairly frequently, stuck his hand out in the world-cup, crassly celebrated he missed penalty. He's a questionable/competitive character to say the least. Who's to say he wasn't trying to wind Evra up even further? We shouldn't pretend that this hypothesis is just wrong when it's equally likely to be true.

The bottom line is everyone knows pretty much fuck all, and everyone is trying to back-up their viewpoint on pretty much fuck all, which typifies this saga from the outset. The only thing which is clear to me is that there needs to be more open-mindedness on both sides of the debate.

I get blind loyalty to a family member or a close friend, but to Luis Suarez - a footballer who scored some goals for your football team? Nah, that's just weird and playing along to the clubs narrative.

Let's not forget that LFC have got their own agenda in all of this too.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47188.msg1460834#msg1460834 date=1326147125]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1460792#msg1460792 date=1326144299]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1460778#msg1460778 date=1326143826]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1460775#msg1460775 date=1326143575]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1460771#msg1460771 date=1326143436]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1460677#msg1460677 date=1326132855]
Rubans have you read the report?

Even the people on here who feel that he deserved a ban, feel that it is far too long.
[/quote]I dont.
[/quote]

I don't believe it was a fair trial. My stance on the court has always been what's likely to happen, not what should. In my mind was clear as day what the FA were going to do w

And I say the exact same thing to you. And I'd ask the exact same questions of you.
[/quote]Oh mate im done reading all these long posts in here. I just noticed that little one ther that i disagreed with.
So in answer to your question, whatever answer suits my statement is the one I go with.
[/quote]

Ok. So you're satisfied that Suarez has been treated fairly throughout all of this and if this exact scenario were to happen to you or one of yours, you'd feel that you got a fair trial and justice was served..?
[/quote]

I'm not satisfied Suarez received a fair trial, no. It was clear as day what the FA were going to about this from day one. They've got their own narrative to weave and it was all depressingly predictable. That said, Suarez is no brother of mine nor yours. I don't know what he said, neither do the club or anyone else bar those two on the pitch. The FA have little evidence to suggest he did commit the act - not enough to convict by reasonable standards. But that doesn't mean he didn't do it. After all, Suarez has bitten people in the past, dives fairly frequently, stuck his hand out in the world-cup, crassly celebrated he missed penalty. He's a questionable/competitive character to say the least. Who's to say he wasn't trying to wind Evra up even further? We shouldn't pretend that this hypothesis is just wrong when it's equally likely to be true.

The bottom line is everyone knows pretty much fuck all, and everyone is trying to back-up their viewpoint on pretty much fuck all, which typifies this saga from the outset. The only thing which is clear to me is that there needs to be more open-mindedness on both sides of the debate.

I get blind loyalty to a family member or a close friend, but to Luis Suarez - a footballer who scored some goals for your football team? Nah, that's just weird and playing along to the clubs narrative.

Let's not forget that LFC have got their own agenda in all of this too.
[/quote]

Squig,

If you really believe what you've written that I've bolded above, it doesn't matter whether he's your brother or some gobsite prima-donna footballer who may be a horrible cheat... What's happened is wrong. And that's my point...

It's not blind loyalty, mate. If he'd been caught really saying something, a la EBJT, and the club still defended him, I'd be 100% opposed to that stance and I'd want him gone. I'm not some sheep.

But this is wrong. And you seem to agree with me. So why are the club wrong in defending somebody that they clearly believe innocent of these charges..? I actually have more respect for them doing this, than I would if they just accepted it, meekly.

Wrong is wrong, mate.

 

[Portly]

The club has behaved honourably in this episode. I don't believe the cliché that they "handled it badly." They handled it in in the only way that they could. The first verse of Rudyard Kipling's "If" is appropriate:

IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1460848#msg1460848 date=1326147906]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47188.msg1460834#msg1460834 date=1326147125]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1460792#msg1460792 date=1326144299]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1460778#msg1460778 date=1326143826]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1460775#msg1460775 date=1326143575]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1460771#msg1460771 date=1326143436]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1460677#msg1460677 date=1326132855]
Rubans have you read the report?

Even the people on here who feel that he deserved a ban, feel that it is far too long.
[/quote]I dont.
[/quote]

I don't believe it was a fair trial. My stance on the court has always been what's likely to happen, not what should. In my mind was clear as day what the FA were going to do w

And I say the exact same thing to you. And I'd ask the exact same questions of you.
[/quote]Oh mate im done reading all these long posts in here. I just noticed that little one ther that i disagreed with.
So in answer to your question, whatever answer suits my statement is the one I go with.
[/quote]

Ok. So you're satisfied that Suarez has been treated fairly throughout all of this and if this exact scenario were to happen to you or one of yours, you'd feel that you got a fair trial and justice was served..?
[/quote]

I'm not satisfied Suarez received a fair trial, no. It was clear as day what the FA were going to about this from day one. They've got their own narrative to weave and it was all depressingly predictable. That said, Suarez is no brother of mine nor yours. I don't know what he said, neither do the club or anyone else bar those two on the pitch. The FA have little evidence to suggest he did commit the act - not enough to convict by reasonable standards. But that doesn't mean he didn't do it. After all, Suarez has bitten people in the past, dives fairly frequently, stuck his hand out in the world-cup, crassly celebrated he missed penalty. He's a questionable/competitive character to say the least. Who's to say he wasn't trying to wind Evra up even further? We shouldn't pretend that this hypothesis is just wrong when it's equally likely to be true.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1460848#msg1460848 date=1326147906]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47188.msg1460834#msg1460834 date=1326147125]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1460792#msg1460792 date=1326144299]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1460778#msg1460778 date=1326143826]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1460775#msg1460775 date=1326143575]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1460771#msg1460771 date=1326143436]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1460677#msg1460677 date=1326132855]
Rubans have you read the report?

Even the people on here who feel that he deserved a ban, feel that it is far too long.
[/quote]I dont.
[/quote]

I don't believe it was a fair trial. My stance on the court has always been what's likely to happen, not what should. In my mind was clear as day what the FA were going to do w

And I say the exact same thing to you. And I'd ask the exact same questions of you.
[/quote]Oh mate im done reading all these long posts in here. I just noticed that little one ther that i disagreed with.
So in answer to your question, whatever answer suits my statement is the one I go with.
[/quote]

Ok. So you're satisfied that Suarez has been treated fairly throughout all of this and if this exact scenario were to happen to you or one of yours, you'd feel that you got a fair trial and justice was served..?
[/quote]

I'm not satisfied Suarez received a fair trial, no. It was clear as day what the FA were going to about this from day one. They've got their own narrative to weave and it was all depressingly predictable. That said, Suarez is no brother of mine nor yours. I don't know what he said, neither do the club or anyone else bar those two on the pitch. The FA have little evidence to suggest he did commit the act - not enough to convict by reasonable standards. But that doesn't mean he didn't do it. After all, Suarez has bitten people in the past, dives fairly frequently, stuck his hand out in the world-cup, crassly celebrated he missed penalty. He's a questionable/competitive character to say the least. Who's to say he wasn't trying to wind Evra up even further? We shouldn't pretend that this hypothesis is just wrong when it's equally likely to be true.

The bottom line is everyone knows pretty much fuck all, and everyone is trying to back-up their viewpoint on pretty much fuck all, which typifies this saga from the outset. The only thing which is clear to me is that there needs to be more open-mindedness on both sides of the debate.

I get blind loyalty to a family member or a close friend, but to Luis Suarez - a footballer who scored some goals for your football team? Nah, that's just weird and playing along to the clubs narrative.

Let's not forget that LFC have got their own agenda in all of this too.
[/quote]

Squig,

If you really believe what you've written that I've bolded above, it doesn't matter whether he's your brother or some gobsite prima-donna footballer who may be a horrible cheat... What's happened is wrong. And that's my point...

It's not blind loyalty, mate. If he'd been caught really saying something, a la EBJT, and the club still defended him, I'd be 100% opposed to that stance and I'd want him gone. I'm not some sheep.

But this is wrong. And you seem to agree with me. So why are the club wrong in defending somebody that they clearly believe innocent of these charges..? I actually have more respect for them doing this, than I would if they just accepted it, meekly.

Wrong is wrong, mate.

[/quote]
The bottom line is everyone knows pretty much fuck all, and everyone is trying to back-up their viewpoint on pretty much fuck all, which typifies this saga from the outset. The only thing which is clear to me is that there needs to be more open-mindedness on both sides of the debate.

I get blind loyalty to a family member or a close friend, but to Luis Suarez - a footballer who scored some goals for your football team? Nah, that's just weird and playing along to the clubs narrative.

Let's not forget that LFC have got their own agenda in all of this too.
[/quote]

Squig,

If you really believe what you've written that I've bolded above, it doesn't matter whether he's your brother or some gobsite prima-donna footballer who may be a horrible cheat... What's happened is wrong. And that's my point...

It's not blind loyalty, mate. If he'd been caught really saying something, a la EBJT, and the club still defended him, I'd be 100% opposed to that stance and I'd want him gone. I'm not some sheep.

But this is wrong. And you seem to agree with me. So why are the club wrong in defending somebody that they clearly believe innocent of these charges..? I actually have more respect for them doing this, than I would if they just accepted it, meekly.

Wrong is wrong, mate.

[/quote]

Maybe the club believe him to be innocent, or maybe they're just trying to show support for our best player so he doesn't go to Spain. Either is possible.

Don't get me wrong I hope Luis is a little saint off the pitch and he's not capable of anything like the allegations that he faces - but he's a total stranger to me, so fuck knows.

8 games out isn't that much of a big-deal. I'd rather just get back to talking about footie.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1460792#msg1460792 date=1326144299]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1460778#msg1460778 date=1326143826]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1460775#msg1460775 date=1326143575]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1460771#msg1460771 date=1326143436]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1460677#msg1460677 date=1326132855]
Rubans have you read the report?

Even the people on here who feel that he deserved a ban, feel that it is far too long.
[/quote]I dont.
[/quote]

And I say the exact same thing to you. And I'd ask the exact same questions of you.
[/quote]Oh mate im done reading all these long posts in here. I just noticed that little one ther that i disagreed with.
So in answer to your question, whatever answer suits my statement is the one I go with.
[/quote]

Ok. So you're satisfied that Suarez has been treated fairly throughout all of this and if this exact scenario were to happen to you or one of yours, you'd feel that you got a fair trial and justice was served..?
[/quote]It wouldnt happen to me mate, im not a racist.

 

[kingjulian]

Oncy knows more about Suarez than his team mates at Liverpool and Uruguay

 

[Squiggles]

So if your mates say you didn't do it, that's enough?

 

[Sunny]

Quote responsibly lads !! Fucks sake.

 

[kingjulian]

Its not, but neither is a verdict by kangaroo court with other agendas proof enough to call someone a racist...

 

[kingjulian]

Re: Re: The Suarez/Evra Racism Row

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47188.msg1#msg1 date=1326147125]
I'm not satisfied Suarez received a fair trial, no. It was clear as day what the FA were going to about this from day one. They've got their own narrative to weave and it was all depressingly predictable. That said, Suarez is no brother of mine nor yours. I don't know what he said, neither do the club or anyone else bar those two on the pitch. The FA have little evidence to suggest he did commit the act - not enough to convict by reasonable standards. But that doesn't mean he didn't do it. After all, Suarez has bitten people in the past, dives fairly frequently, stuck his hand out in the world-cup, crassly celebrated he missed penalty. He's a questionable/competitive character to say the least. Who's to say he wasn't trying to wind Evra up even further? We shouldn't pretend that this hypothesis is just wrong when it's equally likely to be true.
[/quote]
Exhibit a:
Your honour, he has previously jumped a red light to get to work on time and further aggravated the situation by signing the contract for the company, in spite of clearly breaching the law to get there in the first place.

Exhibit B: he has previous for skipping work with fake medical cedtificates.

Exhibit C: This is the most telling evidence your honour, he has in his teenage years once bitten his mate over a scuffle over lunch money!

Therefore he clearly murdered the CEO, and given that he has admitted to being in the office building at the time of murder, the evidence is beyond contestation.

The thing is Suarez has been a easy target for something like this. It is one thing to pull him up for the wrong he did. But to falsely allege that he is a racist based on an inconclusive report, one that suarez hasnt been given an opportunity to defend against is beyond the pale.

His only option to defend was to appeal to reduce the ban, as the FA's guilty verdict cannot be contested. Excuse me for believing what the man, his mates, his black mates, kenny dalglish, many other people who have had the opportunity to work with him.... Oncy can really fuck off with his opinion i really dont intend to debate this with him...

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1460916#msg1460916 date=1326154048]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1460792#msg1460792 date=1326144299]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1460778#msg1460778 date=1326143826]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=47188.msg1460775#msg1460775 date=1326143575]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=47188.msg1460771#msg1460771 date=1326143436]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=47188.msg1460677#msg1460677 date=1326132855]
Rubans have you read the report?

Even the people on here who feel that he deserved a ban, feel that it is far too long.
[/quote]I dont.
[/quote]

And I say the exact same thing to you. And I'd ask the exact same questions of you.
[/quote]Oh mate im done reading all these long posts in here. I just noticed that little one ther that i disagreed with.
So in answer to your question, whatever answer suits my statement is the one I go with.
[/quote]

Ok. So you're satisfied that Suarez has been treated fairly throughout all of this and if this exact scenario were to happen to you or one of yours, you'd feel that you got a fair trial and justice was served..?
[/quote]It wouldnt happen to me mate, im not a racist.
[/quote]

Neither is Suarez. Just ask the man that accused him. And the men that convicted him.

 

[Farkmaster]

No one has a fucking clue whether Suarez is racist, though it's incredibly unlikely that he doesn't have some racist tendencies, because we all do.


The idea that he is or is not racist based on some silly FA trial is ludicrous. The idea that he is or is not racist based on his heritage is ludicrous. See also: Evra's opinion on whether he's racist, the fact that he wears a Liverpool shirt, the fact that he does charity work etc. etc.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=47188.msg1460965#msg1460965 date=1326170708]
... it's incredibly unlikely that he doesn't have some racist tendencies, because we all do.
[/quote]

Speak for yourself, Ali.

 

[Farkmaster]

I'll speak for every single piece of credible research ever done anywhere on the subject.

Or, I could talk about the work I did in Uganda, and the various minority friends I have, and that my mum doesn't think I'm a racist.

Would you prefer the bullshit? I'd rather recognize I live in a fairly racist, homophobic time that thinks it's a lot more advanced than it is, and guard myself against it and try to be a better person.

And on that front, I'm not precisely sure what this hearing did to help, and I'm even less sure about the way that it was defended by the club.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Farky's right re: prejeudices we all hold. No one is immune ...

How's the garden? How's moving plans? Are you buying an Albert Pujols jersey?

 

[Y1]

Of course all of us have prejudice of one form or another. Even the colours have racist tendencies against one another and the whites.

For Suarez's case, it is injustice when prejudices by the panel/FA has gone beyond what is reasonable.

 

[Portly]

I was in the club shop at Anfield yesterday and looked for a Suarez T-shirt. When I asked where they were, the assistant told me that they had never sold them in the club shop.

So the players were wearing unofficial merchandise that night! Surely unprecedented. 🙂

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47188.msg1460935#msg1460935 date=1326155993]
So if your mates say you didn't do it, that's enough?
[/quote]

It seems to have been pretty strong evidence in the view of the FA, that Evra's mates and manager said that Evra said he did it.

 

[tony]

<It seems to have been pretty strong evidence in the view of the FA, that Evra's mates and manager said that Evra said he did it.>

Except David De GEA the spanish keeper who presumeably is fluent in spanish and was standing less than a yard away ( have a look at you tube ) when the alleged abuse in spanish occured didnt back up Evra as he says he didnt hear anything

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=47188.msg1460965#msg1460965 date=1326170708]
No one has a fucking clue whether Suarez is racist, though it's incredibly unlikely that he doesn't have some racist tendencies, because we all do.

[/quote]

I think everyone has prejudice, for example; I want chocolate ice cream rather than vanilla. but saying everyone has racist tendencies is a bit sweeping.

 

[Judge Jules]

None of Evra's teammates backed him up. Even after the FA took them through their evidence again, all they came up with was what Evra himself told them afterwards, and they gave four different accounts of THAT, including an admission from Nani that he couldn't remember any of it.

 

[Sunny]

Everyone seems to be missing the fact that no players (none that I can think of) have come out and backed Evra publicly in all this. Wonder why that is ?

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1461019#msg1461019 date=1326191422]
Everyone seems to be missing the fact that no players (none that I can think of) have come out and backed Evra publicly in all this. Wonder why that is ?
[/quote]

they want to move on?

 

[Judge Jules]

No, that won't do. They didn't back him right from the start.

 

[Sunny]

No-one has to participate in the debate Neil. It's still a conveniently overlooked fact. Mind you, there's been so many, on both sides of the argument.

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47188.msg1461016#msg1461016 date=1326191276]
None of Evra's teammates backed him up. Even after the FA took them through their evidence again, all they came up with was what Evra himself told them afterwards, and they gave four different accounts of THAT, including an admission from Nani that he couldn't remember any of it.
[/quote]

If you re read my post JJ you will see that thats what I said.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47188.msg1461024#msg1461024 date=1326192037]
No-one has to participate in the debate Neil. It's still a conveniently overlooked fact. Mind you, there's been so many, on both sides of the argument.
[/quote]

it rather annoying that evra is qouted as insulting suarez but only suarez is banned. it seems you can insult someone's country with impunity but not their race.