The Skrtel and Lovren partnership

[SummerOnions]

So Skrtel has always been prone to the ridiculous. This isn't new, he loves a late sliding challenge and being as badly out of position as Johnson. He loves a quick wrestle in the box when the ref is/is not looking

Lovren has the reaction times of a moth on acid, the turning circle of Kyrgiakos with one leg and generally looks confused when on a football pitch

The two of them together seems to unsurprisingly cause mayhem though. I think it was the Chelsea game for me, where both of them rushed out, missed the ball and Cahill had a tap in. Only one of them should be going anywhere near that ball. A header on the fucking area, and you're meant to be filling a gap where they now have 5 onside attackers. Whatever.

Are they trying to be the same person? There's usually two types of defender for a CB position. The Terry, Carragher type last ditch, all about the timing, don't take any risks kinda player. Or the Hyypia style, get the ball before anyone else gets it so you don't have to bother tackling them. You've got to be great to get away with either of these, and I don't really see that in Lovren. I certainly don't see it in Skrtel

I'm digressing but for me Skrtel has been playing far worse than Lovren. His utter inability to be in the right place at the right time would confuse anyone you were playing with. Too many years of watching Johnson. And Skrtel and Lovren can't play together cos they both play a similar style, going after the same ball and not considering having to cover for what the other player is about to do, they jump in first and regret it later.

I don't know if Sakho is that much calmer but he certainly seems to have a cooler head, and Toure obviously does. Fuck Skrtel off and play Toure with Lovren until he starts to remember why he looked good in the first place. We can't carry on playing this partnership though

 

[gkmacca]

Carragher's clearly lost patience. This was him yesterday:

Carragher was also critical of his former defensive partner Martin Skrtel who hauled down Dwight Gayle to the build up to Palace’s third goal.

“I played alongside Martin for a long time and he was doing that from day one,” he added.
“Skrtel shouldn’t be grabbing shirts.

“He’s known for it now throughout the league.”

 

[WhyAlwaysMe?]

It's gash.

 

[Halmeister]

I've never rated Skrtel. He has his good moments, but he's a consistent liability. Sakho should definitely come back in when fit. I don't know if he's good enough, but Skrtel certainly isn't.

As for that other car crash, Dejan Lovren, he seems a complete mess. It's as if he's trying to make an impression every time he's near the ball. He has to dive in with a great tackle, he has to win a powerful header, he has to spray a 40 yard pass... the thing is, he tries all of these things and they very rarely come off. I didn't see enough of him at Southampton, I certainly didn't see him at Lyon, but he was highly rated and is still relatively young. I don't know if it's him settling or a poor run of form or whatever, or if he's just shit.

Persisting with it is futile, though. Skrtel is not good enough. We know that. Lovren could be. Sakho could be. Toure is a seasoned player, so maybe we get him in for the meantime. I'd like Sakho to be given a run, though, at the least.

 

[Silver Sean]

Spending £20M to replace Agger with Louvren is one of the worst pieces of football business we've ever done. and how Toure can't get a game is beyond me.

 

[Mystic]

Personally I think it's more Martin than Dejan, I'd love to see Sakho and Lovren given a proper go, fuck it, even Lovren and Toure.

 

[gkmacca]

Lovren isn't just a problem as a CB, his positional play this season is so poor he needs a left back to hover around him as his minder, so Moreno's progress is being stunted as well.

 

[Whirly]

Lovren isn't just a problem as a CB, his positional play this season is so poor he needs a left back to hover around him as his minder, so Moreno's progress is being stunted as well.

I think Menelaus would be a better option at this stage.

Lovren this season has made David Luiz look like a well disciplined and positionally infallible defender.

 

[ILD]

I said in another thread that Lovren attacks the ball with arrogance and a disregard for his defensive duties. He is often ahead of the ball too. I dunno what to make of him.

 

[Actonian]

Neither Skrtel nor Lovren appear able to communicate with each other. I would have thought that one of the essentials of a good defence is to have one central defender who is talking all the time. Toure would appear to be our best bet for doing that.

 

[Hansern]

Lovren hasnt been good at all but all the mistakes he makes this season compared to one last season indicates that there is something completely wrong with the whole defence as a unit. 17 personal mistakes in total.

I'd swap Skrtel for Toure. That Toure - Lovren partnership vs Swnasea is probably one of the better defensive games we've had.

Skrtel has been awful and has the positional sense of a blind man on meth.
Lovren needs to step up though and stop trying to impress all the time. Just play his natural game that was so brilliant last season.

 

[keniget]

There seems to be a fair amount of revisionism with regards to Skrtel.

I started out not quite rating the guy but on the whole you have to admit he's been a pretty decent signing for us with one or two stand out seasons. He does need someone to organize him, yeah, but lots of players need others around them to make up for their deficiencies.

He's been crap this season, no question, but there seems to be this leaning towards excusing Lovren's shitness by blaming Skrtel. People seem to be pointing at Lovren's one good season as evidence that our current issues can't quite be his fault. Not really. I understand why that is happening but... Skrtel has performed as well or better and at a higher level too.

No one should be getting a free pass no matter how much hope we have invested in them.

 

[Fabio]

He was our player of the season not long ago

 

[Rafiagra]

Skrtel is brainless. His persistence with shirt pulling is evidence of it. His positioning is awful, he ball watches a hell of a lot and he's no good with the ball. If he wasn't a skin head who looked 'hard' he'd be nowhere near our team.

 

[mark1975]

Lovren's fucked up in nearly every game so far this season, but Skrtel gets the brunt of the blame. Laughable really. He's the only one who actually looks to carry the ball out from the back too, that's two centre halves we've had next to him who are supposed to be great ball players but it's never really materialised into fact. He's not as bad on the ball as some posters on here make out, but he does need some leadership alongside him.

Lovren has been a joke from day one, if Skrtel's "brainless" and his positioning is so awful, what the fuck does that make the £20m man?

 

[jexykrodic]

I'm not sure Skrtel and Lovren have a partnership.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

This is where the_KHL should make his comeback ... as FYI, he told me Bayern's Danish phenom is on the move and we should be over him like a fat boy on tart ... Pierre something Hojlberg I think

 

[gkmacca]

Lovren has been a joke from day one, if Skrtel's "brainless" and his positioning is so awful, what the fuck does that make the £20m man?

Even more brainless.

 

[mark1975]

Even more brainless.

Comes to something when over the past three or four years, we've had to look to either an aging Carragher or Toure to save us.

 

[gkmacca]

Yes. For me in the long term it should be Ilori and Sakho, or another. Nothing betrays Brendan's strangely old-fashioned view of CBs than his talk of leaders and 'vocal' defenders. Hansen and Lawrenson were as quiet as mice. They just knew how to defend and knew what each other was doing. In every other dimension of play Brendan's a modernist, and he needs to embrace that in defending as well. Build a relationship.

 

[Modo]

I totally forgot about Illori.

 

[Ryan]

For the zillionth time; they need coached.

They are both capable footballers, and they both have some great defensive attributes, but it's an indictment on Rodgers more so than Lovren, Skrtel, and Agger, Toure, etc before them that we cannot consistently defend in this league.

A manager with better defensive awareness would get far more out of the defenders at our disposal. And still be able to go forward and win games.

 

[Zlate]

I've said it for a while now, Skrtel is a problem. Last season was his best but it was because we played so well his defensive ability didn't get shown as much as now. He is clueless and has no idea. I'd rather play Toure or Sakho. I don't thibk Dejan is the issue here, it's the team who arent pulling their weight in games and helping defend.

 

[Gary25]

I've said it for a while now, Skrtel is a problem. Last season was his best but it was because we played so well his defensive ability didn't get shown as much as now. He is clueless and has no idea. I'd rather play Toure or Sakho. I don't thibk Dejan is the issue here, it's the team who arent pulling their weight in games and helping defend.

2011-2012 season was arguably Skrtel's best for us.

 

[mark1975]

Yes. For me in the long term it should be Ilori and Sakho, or another. Nothing betrays Brendan's strangely old-fashioned view of CBs than his talk of leaders and 'vocal' defenders. Hansen and Lawrenson were as quiet as mice. They just knew how to defend and knew what each other was doing. In every other dimension of play Brendan's a modernist, and he needs to embrace that in defending as well. Build a relationship.

Same with Hyppia, some players have natural leadership qualities by simply just keeping to the basics, reading the game well and leading by example, without having to shout. Obviously it works other ways with different players, but he had such a calming influence on us for such a quiet guy.

 

[mark1975]

For the zillionth time; they need coached.

They are both capable footballers, and they both have some great defensive attributes, but it's an indictment on Rodgers more so than Lovren, Skrtel, and Agger, Toure, etc before them that we cannot consistently defend in this league.

A manager with better defensive awareness would get far more out of the defenders at our disposal. And still be able to go forward and win games.

Definitely, at some stage Carragher, Lovren, Skrtel, Agger & Toure have looked horribly exposed and clueless. I think half of it is how open the system is, but I just don't think we're that well drilled in terms of organisation, we constantly fail to pick players up, close the ball down or read the game particularly well.

Everyone knows how fucking shit we are at defending, it's a cancer that's spread throughout the team, because we look like we're crumbling, knowing we'll inevitably concede, take goals away from the team and we begin to implode with the pressure. He needs to bite the bullet on this one and have a rethink. At least the Madrid away game showed some ability to do a backs to the wall job, I'm not saying we need to go that far, but we put numbers behind the ball and tried to break. The best way we can get out this mess is to regroup, get organised and solid as a unit and look to build from there.

At the minute we seem so focused on finding a solution to our attacking woes, if we actually shored things up, we might just start to get our shit together again.

 

[Silver Sean]

I am firmly of the belief that our best CB pairing is Sakho and Toure at the moment. Louvren for £20M? Wow. Agger binned off for £3M. Wow. Skittles STILL here? Wow. We're a shambles, and that dog of a keeper has not helped anyone either.

 

[Jack D Rips]

With the possible exception of Flanagan, not one of our defenders has improved during Brendan's time here. In fact most of them have gone backwards.

 

[jexykrodic]

Our defensive frailty is now compounded by the expectation within that we're disorganized. We will now get opposing teams fired up to test us and I fully expect plenty of high balls into the area and long shots at Mignolet who currently appears to be the weakest link.

 

[6TimesaRed]

For the zillionth time; they need coached.

They are both capable footballers, and they both have some great defensive attributes, but it's an indictment on Rodgers more so than Lovren, Skrtel, and Agger, Toure, etc before them that we cannot consistently defend in this league.

A manager with better defensive awareness would get far more out of the defenders at our disposal. And still be able to go forward and win games.

This.. ^^

The players are not the problem... They didn't suddenly become Shite.. It doesn't matter who you get in, the problems will remain... Its all down to the coaching methods, which needs to be addressed and starts from going back to the basics..