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The secret to Newcastle's success ?

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Rosco

Worse than Brendan
Member
What is it ?

I know most people expect them to fall away at some point during the season, I know I do anyway, but it wouldn't be a massive surprise if they contended for a Europa spot. They seem to have done it by breaking the rules laid down by football's conventional wisdom.

1. They sold their best player.

2. They got rid of proven Premier League players and replaced them with foreign risks.

3. They don't back their manager.

They've gotten significant improvement out of fuck all spending. It'll be interesting to see how they fare over a longer period.
 
Re: The secret to Newcastle's success ?

Perhaps a communal racist goal?
 
Their manager must be taking cues on teamwork from xperteleven.

Seriously though, i think they have chanced upon one of the better midfields. We have always been lording over them in that area of the pitch. I distinctly remember Lucas owning Nicky Butt etc (those were the days), but it's not the norm anymore. They used to be free three points for us, but not any more. Their midfield is pretty robust to say the least, any team will find them hard to play against.
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47352.msg1419475#msg1419475 date=1319987126]
Perhaps a communal racist goal?
[/quote]

Impossible given their jerseys
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=47352.msg1419480#msg1419480 date=1319987335]
Their manager must be taking cues on teamwork from xperteleven.

Seriously though, i think they have chanced upon one of the better midfields. We have always been lording over them in that area of the pitch. I distinctly remember Lucas owning Nicky Butt etc (those were the days), but it's not the norm anymore. They used to be free three points for us, but not any more. Their midfield is pretty robust to say the least, any team will find them hard to play against.
[/quote]

They seem to have chanced upon some real bargains from Ligue 1.
 
They have been pretty lucky that in Tiote, Cabaye and Demba, they manage to hit it with signings. That said, Marveaux, Santon and Obertan are still question marks.

It is worth noting too, that of the 10 games, they've only played a team from (current table) top 6 once - that's not including 7th place Arsenal, whom they drew with 1st game in the season.

Their next 5 games will be a clearer indication of their strength/progress.
Stoke A
Everton H
Man City A
Man Utd A
Chelsea H
 
Re: The secret to Newcastle's success ?

What a twat of a run
 
[quote author=Binny link=topic=47352.msg1419493#msg1419493 date=1319987974]
They have been pretty lucky that in Tiote, Cabaye and Demba, they manage to hit it with signings. That said, Marveaux, Santon and Obertan are still question marks.

[/quote]

For the price they have paid, a 50% strike rate is massive.
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=47352.msg1419496#msg1419496 date=1319988216]
[quote author=Binny link=topic=47352.msg1419493#msg1419493 date=1319987974]
They have been pretty lucky that in Tiote, Cabaye and Demba, they manage to hit it with signings. That said, Marveaux, Santon and Obertan are still question marks.

[/quote]

For the price they have paid, a 50% strike rate is massive.
[/quote]

Ha, true in some sense, but Marveaux was a free transfer whereas the latter duo cost around £8.5m combined and are on 5 yrs contract each - with sell-on value and youth on their side. More a case of haven't got games to prove themselves then turned out to be poor signings, too.
 
Exactly the reason they're doing OK is that they haven't met any of the top teams. They're no Levante. That's for sure.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47352.msg1419484#msg1419484 date=1319987453]
They seem to have chanced upon some real bargains from Ligue 1.
[/quote]

While we're at it:

http://www.sundaysun.co.uk/sport/newcastle-united/nufc-news/2011/10/23/newcastle-united-attracting-stars-to-st-james-park-79310-29642107/

A FEW weeks ago, Newcastle United were showing a top European agent around St James’ Park.

A pretty major deal-maker on the Continent, this particular character has a number of international players on his books – including one highly-rated striker attracting covetous glances from Manchester United and Arsenal.

So no two-bit chancer then. Yet when United officials led him up the stairs to see the stadium in all its glory, he exhaled deeply, whipped out his camera phone and started taking pictures.

If first impressions count, Newcastle’s magnificent arena had done its job.

It is the unseen story of how United have managed to quietly grab the initiative over the Channel, charming key Continental power brokers to get in the mix for top prospects.

For while the above might seem unremarkable it is worth recalling the next time people ask about the “miraculous” unearthing of rough diamonds like Cheick Tiote and Yohan Cabaye – or query how Toon managed to snare players surely capable of sourcing themselves a Champions League club.


To set the scene, when the new scouting set-up was put in place they found Newcastle’s European and global profile had slipped.

To put it bluntly, faded memories of Alan Shearer and Tino Asprilla on Champions League nights under the lights at St James’ Park meant little to a 22-year-old Ligue 1 star.

So a process of re-education has been embarked on.

Agents – proper ones, not leeches looking for the next pay day – have been welcomed to Tyneside, met at the airport, taken on a tour around the impressive training facilities and given the time of day by the club’s key figures.

It always ends with the stadium tour, a chance to re-iterate Newcastle’s biggest selling point: huge crowds, passion and the perfect platform to take a player’s game to the next level.

In France, where only Marseille, Paris Saint Germain and Lyon boast average attendances of over 30,000, it is a serious draw.
Lille, Sochaux, Lorient and Rennes – the clubs United have watched most frequently this year – rarely get combined gates to match United’s average.

A decision was taken a while ago that France offered the best value for money. Terrifically technical players on relatively low wages were a draw, but there were also established agents worth dealing with out there.

Selling clubs are usually easier to deal with, and outside the Champions League elite they are aware of their place in the food chain.


Boss Alan Pardew sets the scene: “The club had a strong process in France before I arrived. Graham Carr has a big influence in that particular country, and he’s somebody that we all trust.

“We also have some really good contacts there. Don’t underestimate how important that is. When a player comes through the door, we know what we’re getting.

“We feel that we’re getting good players, good characters. You don’t know for certain whether he’s going to be a success until ultimately he plays but you can have a good idea of what you’re getting.”

It doesn’t end there, though.

Big agents with international players are not the only ones extended Toon’s hospitality.

An agent with several teenage South American prospects was invited to their Benton base during the international break and others with players that may be ready for the Premier League in three to five years are kept in the loop too.

Newcastle’s charm offensive includes engaging with the overseas media.

French journalists and TV cameras have been granted interviews and access over the last few months.


And while the occasional Joey Barton cross-Channel chat might have caused them a few issues, major features on France’s equivalent of Match of the Day have done the trick.

United are also proving that knowledge is power in the recruitment game.

For while reputation might have been enough to persuade them to part with big cash in the past, they are now turning up to meetings with selling clubs and agents armed with reams of information.

No longer do they depend on telephone number wages to dazzle prospective recruits – Pardew can now tell a potential signing WHERE they will play, WHAT is expected of them and even HOW the club can improve their game.

For a player like Cabaye, for example, his summer move was likely to be the most important of his life.

So his agent sought reassurances that United would be a proper platform for him – that they actually knew what they were buying and where he would fit into their strategy.

Armed with stacks of information provided by a scouting team that had collectively carried out five years of background work on him, Pardew was able to soothe any worries the then Lille skipper had.

Homework, they call it within the four walls of United’s Benton training base. The stuff that goes on during the international breaks when some managers or chairmen might be sunning themselves on a beach in Dubai.

The club even insist that their aborted attempts to sign a striker as the window wound down weren’t quite as “lastminute.com” – to borrow one of Pardew’s phrases – as was portrayed.

Reams of stats and background reports on Pape Cisse and Bryan Ruiz are logged on a Newcastle laptop somewhere, and it is indicative of the painstaking work that goes on in their scouting efforts that some of their talent spotters had been watching Cabaye since 2006.

One consideration before signing him was that he had only ever figured in a 4-3-3 system at Lille – not the 4-4-1-1 or orthodox 4-4-2 that Newcastle play.


But the feeling was that he was sharp enough and good enough to adapt quickly, with the necessary character.

And thus we come to the biggest requirement for any new recruit – character.

Some managers think they can see it by staring a player in the whites of his eyes, but there is more to it than that.

Again, contacts on the ground are consulted. L’Equipe and other sports media are forensically digested by the club’s talent spotters, while even a quiet cup of coffee in a bar near the ground can be a gold mine of information if the waiter is one of those with his ear to the ground.

Taxi drivers carrying club reps to watch a game have even been known to pass on valuable nuggets in the past.

Pardew acknowledges that this intangible can be tricky.

The club went as far as meeting one player this summer, but opted against signing him because it didn’t feel right and, while the United boss understandably wouldn’t divulge the identity of the star, we understands that Gervinho did not come across well in a face-to-face meeting.

Newcastle withdrew their interest because they felt they were being used to smoke out interest from a bigger club and sure enough Arsenal’s bid landed them the player.


So a talented player went by the wayside – but the club only want those committed to the cause.

Pardew explains: “You can look at the stats of a player, and the stats can read well. The game’s in the mind, though. The mind is where the character is. There’s also that thing when adversity comes, how will he react?

“All those things come from the mentality of a player, not the physical make up of a player.

“So you have to make sure that you cover all of those bases.”

It is a process that Pardew clearly buys into. And despite those August frustrations, he continues to back the boardroom thinking.

“I have the final say (on transfers). I think that’s important for any manager,” he said. “You get the opportunity then to say, ‘I like what the team have done, I know where he’s going to fit in my team, let’s take him’.

“We will get down to something like three or four players for one position.

“I will tend to favour one of those, or maybe two of those – the financial situation might then take its course.

“It’s very rare we get down to the third choice.”
 
Re: The secret to Newcastle's success ?

How long until we encounter a real life version of the film Goal!
 
[quote author=Modo link=topic=47352.msg1419508#msg1419508 date=1319989039]
Exactly the reason they're doing OK is that they haven't met any of the top teams. They're no Levante. That's for sure.
[/quote]

What the man said. Plus Cabaye.
 
5. What success ? They've won the square root of fuck all as a club.

No big secret there
 
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=47352.msg1419542#msg1419542 date=1319993098]
[quote author=Binny link=topic=47352.msg1419509#msg1419509 date=1319989071]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=47352.msg1419484#msg1419484 date=1319987453]
They seem to have chanced upon some real bargains from Ligue 1.
[/quote]

While we're at it:

http://www.sundaysun.co.uk/sport/newcastle-united/nufc-news/2011/10/23/newcastle-united-attracting-stars-to-st-james-park-79310-29642107/

[/quote]

Local rag, local hype.
[/quote]

Yep. Largely based on shite that article, all clubs wine & dine established agents, & the gervinho bit is made up bollocks.
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=47352.msg1419565#msg1419565 date=1319996056]
4. They haven't played anyone decent yet.
[/quote]

Well they played Spurs a few weeks ago and were the better side for most of the game but aye the fixture list has been kind to them.

They've just been solid at the back(who'd have thought), and in Cabaye and Tiote, they have two good centre midfielders there.

Reckon they'll finish 8th or 9th, not a chance they'll make the top 6.
 
Regardless of who they have or haven't played, they're still doing well.

Everyone was a little baffled when they let Barton go, sold Nolan etc.

They've picked up some decent players and are behaving in a very un-Newcastle like fashion - at least in the transfer market.

Credit where credits due.
 
Cabaye really was a great pick up.

In the pre season prediction thread we were asked to post the basic predictions (top scorer etc) but there was also an option to make a random prediction. I think mine was that Demba Ba would score a hatful in a relegated Newcastle side. I'm suprised with how good they are doing but as others have said the next five games could see them slide down the table.

Ba was a great pick up from them also. He got injured on the first day of the season but has scored a few on his return.
 
They've bought well.
They've been very lucky with injuries.
They've been able to keep the same, solid team playing most weeks.
Their defence hs been the same names for several years now.
They're obviously being managed quite well.
They haven't played anyone decent.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47352.msg1419730#msg1419730 date=1320034057]
They've bought well.
They've been very lucky with injuries.
They've been able to keep the same, solid team playing most weeks. Their defence hs been the same names for several years now.
They're obviously being managed quite well.
They haven't played anyone decent.
[/quote]

But you need to change your team every week depending on who you are playing and what tactics your are employing.
 
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=47352.msg1419733#msg1419733 date=1320038042]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47352.msg1419730#msg1419730 date=1320034057]They've bought well.
They've been very lucky with injuries.
They've been able to keep the same, solid team playing most weeks. Their defence hs been the same names for several years now.
They're obviously being managed quite well.
They haven't played anyone decent.
[/quote]
But you need to change your team every week depending on who you are playing and what tactics your are employing.
[/quote]

If you have a squad full of good players, you do yes.

If you're Newcastle and have about 11 decent players, no. Take that midfield for example, or even their strikers - Who would they rotate them with? They don't have anyone else.
 
SUPER scout Graham Carr has revealed he had been watching Papiss Demba Cisse for five years before helping bring the strike star to Newcastle.

Cisse has been a revelation on Tyneside since his January move from German side Freiburg.

The Senegal striker bagged a brace against Liverpool at the weekend to take his tally to seven goals in seven games to help propel United to the brink of a return to Europe.

Chief scout Carr has been hugely responsible for Newcastle’s great season, helping to recruit Yohan Cabaye, Demba Ba, Cisse, Cheik Tiote and Sylvain Marveaux for modest fees in the last couple of years.

And he revealed he first spotted Cisse playing for French side Metz while he was scouting for Manchester City under Sven-Goran Eriksson back in 2007.

He said: “I saw Papiss Cisse play for Metz when he first came over from Senegal.

“Metz have sort of a school, and they take quite a lot of Senegalese players, but he didn’t have a passport at the time. I was working for Manchester City at the time, but he didn’t have a passport to come into the UK. So that ruled him out.”

Carr kept a watching brief on Cisse’s progress, first at Metz and then Freiburg, as part of the dozens of matches he watches on the continent each month.

That hard work and commitment has helped United land a number of players for cut-price fees, though Carr was quick to give credit to boss Alan Pardew, managing director Derek Llambias and secretary Lee Charnley for completing the deals.

He added: “Cisse scored 20-odd goals two years ago in the Bundesliga. He was liked by Bayern Munich, They wanted £15m when we first enquired, and then it was 12, and we actually got him for eight in the last window which we thought was value for money.

“At Newcastle, we haven’t been able to pay the big fees, so we’ve gone for what you might call realistic targets.

“But I just go and watch matches. I go and pick up three matches in Holland, three in France over the weekend, or midweek, or in Germany, and I get a list of names together, sit down with the manager, Derek Llambias and Lee Charnley and our staff and we discuss them.

“Then, if we think we want to sign one, then Lee Charnley goes and gets a price for him.

I’ve been doing the job for 14 years. I was at Tottenham for five years, chief scout at Manchester City for seven, and I’ve been mostly in Europe as well, so I’ve been been “on the job” for quite a long time.

“So it’s just those players that came along. Cheik Tiote was available at the right price, at the right time. Hatem Ben Arfa had played in the national side for France, we got him on loan. Then we’ve had Cabaye and Cisse come in, and Sylvain Marveaux who hasn’t played yet.

“I think Alan Pardew’s done a great job because he’s actually organised the side into a winning side.

“Tiote has improved. Hatem Ben Arfa, he was a little bit temperamental in France, but I think Pardew’s putting an arm around him now and has got him playing to his true capabilities.

“Yohan Cabaye had a get-out clause in his contract, which was a major signing for us. He was valued at £10m, but we found out he had a clause for £4.5m, so that really gave us the green light to go out and sign him and the club worked hard, actually, to get him.

“The club have got to take a lot of credit. Derek Llambias, who works hard, Mike Ashley – they’ve put the money there, they’ve took the necessary stick from the supporters.

“On the outside looking in, I was a bit, you know, what’s happened at Newcastle in the past. But since I’ve been in there working for them, I can’t speak too highly of them.”
 
Isn't it conventional wisdom that foreign talent offers far better value? Or are people that stupid. Some player you've barely heard of from Spain is usually better than any young English talent getting all sorts of unwarranted acclaim.
 
I'd say we should try and recruit that Graham Carr but we'd probably fuck that up too and end up with his son Alan .
 
Things are pretty bad, but they hopefully never be so bad that we need to look to Newcastle as a model. They'll probably fall apart again next year.
 
Amusing to read this back.

How the hell Pardew has managed this is amazing. Reports suggest that Carrol, Nolan etc were twats in the changing room and once they were gone everyone gel'd. Maybe the ponytailed one has continued to be a issue and thats why you're not getting the best of him.

Im already looking forward to this window when MA sells Cisse, Ba and Tiote for 70m and expects the same to happen again. 🙁
 
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