The Rafatollah Speaks

[localny]

 

[localny]

[xtable]
{caption}Managerial record by team and tenure{/caption}
{tbody}
{tr}
{th=rowspan:2}Team{/th}
{th=rowspan:2}From{/th}
{th=rowspan:2}To{/th}
{th=colspan:5}Record{/th}
{th=rowspan:2}Ref.{/th}
{/tr}
{tr}
{th}P{/th}
{th}W{/th}
{th}D{/th}
{th}L{/th}
{th}Win %{/th}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=left}

Real Madrid B​

{/td}
{td=left}

1993​

{/td}
{td=left}

1995​

{/td}
{td}65{/td}
{td}26{/td}
{td}18{/td}
{td}21{/td}
{td}40.0{/td}
{td}[156]{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=left}

Valladolid​

{/td}
{td=left}

1995​

{/td}
{td=left}

1996​

{/td}
{td}29{/td}
{td}5{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{td}14{/td}
{td}17.2{/td}
{td}[157]{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=left}

Osasuna​

{/td}
{td=left}

1996​

{/td}
{td=left}

1996​

{/td}
{td}11{/td}
{td}3{/td}
{td}4{/td}
{td}4{/td}
{td}27.3{/td}
{td}[158]{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=left}

Extremadura​

{/td}
{td=left}

1997​

{/td}
{td=left}

1999​

{/td}
{td}92{/td}
{td}36{/td}
{td}26{/td}
{td}30{/td}
{td}39.1{/td}
{td}[159]{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=left}

Tenerife​

{/td}
{td=left}

2000​

{/td}
{td=left}

2001​

{/td}
{td}46{/td}
{td}23{/td}
{td}11{/td}
{td}12{/td}
{td}50.0{/td}
{td}[160]{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=left}

Valencia​

{/td}
{td=left}

July 2001​

{/td}
{td=left}

1 June 2004​

{/td}
{td}162{/td}
{td}88{/td}
{td}41{/td}
{td}33{/td}
{td}54.3{/td}
{td}[12][161][162]{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=left}

Liverpool​

{/td}
{td=left}

16 June 2004​

{/td}
{td=left}

3 June 2010​

{/td}
{td}350{/td}
{td}194{/td}
{td}77{/td}
{td}79{/td}
{td}55.4{/td}
{td}[163]{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=left}

Inter Milan​

{/td}
{td=left}

10 June 2010​

{/td}
{td=left}

23 December 2010​

{/td}
{td}25{/td}
{td}12{/td}
{td}6{/td}
{td}7{/td}
{td}48.0{/td}
{td}[163]{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=left}

Chelsea (interim)​

{/td}
{td=left}

21 November 2012​

{/td}
{td=left}

27 May 2013​

{/td}
{td}48{/td}
{td}28{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{td}58.3{/td}
{td}[94][163][164]{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=left}

Napoli​

{/td}
{td=left}

27 May 2013​

{/td}
{td=left}

3 June 2015​

{/td}
{td}112{/td}
{td}59{/td}
{td}28{/td}
{td}25{/td}
{td}52.7{/td}
{td}[94][163]{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=left}

Real Madrid​

{/td}
{td=left}

3 June 2015​

{/td}
{td=left}

4 January 2016​

{/td}
{td}25{/td}
{td}17{/td}
{td}5{/td}
{td}3{/td}
{td}68.0{/td}
{td}[163]{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=left}

Newcastle United​

{/td}
{td=left}

11 March 2016​

{/td}
{td=left}

30 June 2019​

{/td}
{td}146{/td}
{td}62{/td}
{td}31{/td}
{td}53{/td}
{td}42.5{/td}
{td}[163]{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=left}

Dalian Professional​

{/td}
{td=left}

2 July 2019​

{/td}
{td=left}

23 January 2021​

{/td}
{td}38{/td}
{td}12{/td}
{td}8{/td}
{td}18{/td}
{td}31.6{/td}
{td}[163]{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=left}

Everton​

{/td}
{td=left}

30 June 2021​

{/td}
{td=left}

16 January 2022​

{/td}
{td}22{/td}
{td}7{/td}
{td}5{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{td}31.8{/td}
{td}[163]{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{th=colspan:3}Total{/th}
{td}1,170{/td}
{td}572{/td}
{td}280{/td}
{td}318{/td}
{td}48.9{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]

 

[localny]

Over Similar Time Frame - Klopp

[xtable]
{tbody}
{tr}
{th=rowspan:2}Team{/th}
{th=rowspan:2}From{/th}
{th=rowspan:2}To{/th}
{th=colspan:5}Record{/th}
{th=rowspan:2}Ref.{/th}
{/tr}
{tr}
{th}P{/th}
{th}W{/th}
{th}D{/th}
{th}L{/th}
{th}Win %{/th}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=left}

Mainz 05​

{/td}
{td=left}

27 February 2001​

{/td}
{td=left}

30 June 2008​

{/td}
{td}270{/td}
{td}109{/td}
{td}78{/td}
{td}83{/td}
{td}40.4{/td}
{td}[33]{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=left}

Borussia Dortmund​

{/td}
{td=left}

1 July 2008​

{/td}
{td=left}

30 June 2015​

{/td}
{td}317{/td}
{td}178{/td}
{td}69{/td}
{td}70{/td}
{td}56.2{/td}
{td}[84]{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td=left}

Liverpool​

{/td}
{td=left}

8 October 2015​

{/td}
{td=left}

Present​

{/td}
{td}379{/td}
{td}233{/td}
{td}86{/td}
{td}60{/td}
{td}61.5{/td}
{td}[271]{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{th=colspan:3}Total{/th}
{td}966{/td}
{td}520{/td}
{td}233{/td}
{td}213{/td}
{td}53.8{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]

 

[tombrown]

You can't compare them because one manager was great and the other one a tool who signed 48 goalkeepers and put Peter Crouch on the wing.

I hate this criticism of Rafa

It was one match, it didnt work, he followed it up by the equally ridiculous decision to play Dirk Kuyt on the wing ... that did work.

Should we call Klopp a tool because he played Fabinho and Henderson at CB once?

 

[Donavan Ried]

And lets face it, this is the guy who left £20m Robbie Keane on the bench for half a season out of spite and didn't know how to use other relatively expensive (for the time) players like Aquilani & Babel. He wasn't crying the pauper when he had the luxury of not needing to use their services having bought them.

And the manager who chasing Gareth Barry to replace Xabi Alonso

 

[Donavan Ried]

In summation…

1. Klopp has better owners
2. Rafa didn’t buy as well
3. Klopp uses Data better
4. Klopp is more inspirational
5. Klopp world (his team) is more impressive than Rafaworld
6. Klopp always improves players. Rafa - occasionally. Rarely

Fixed It

 

[localny]

And the manager who chasing Gareth Barry to replace Xabi Alonso

oh dear. I had forgotten about this ^

* and this talk led to Stewart Downing

 

[tomasjj]

rafa can console himself that he has a much better points/game ratio at everton this season compared to frank

 

[dee]

rafa can console himself that he has a much better points/game ratio at everton this season compared to frank

Not from what I can see (cut from other thread). They are pretty much the same, especially if Arsenal do them on Sunday

“Actually just checked Benitez vs Frank

Benitez P19 points 19 GD -10
Frank P17 points 20 GD -8

One gets death threats and abuse, the other adulation

Go figure”

 

[Holle]

I hate this criticism of Rafa

It was one match, it didnt work, he followed it up by the equally ridiculous decision to play Dirk Kuyt on the wing ... that did work.

Should we call Klopp a tool because he played Fabinho and Henderson at CB once?

It may be only have been one match but it stands for Benitez' attitude. Everybody knew it can't work but he thought he was head and shoulders above everybody else and only hapless fools couldn't see his genius. It cost him in the end and not only here but at several other clubs.

 

[tombrown]

It may be only have been one match but it stands for Benitez' attitude. Everybody knew it can't work but he thought he was head and shoulders above everybody else and only hapless fools couldn't see his genius. It cost him in the end and not only here but at several other clubs.

And everyone "knew" it wouldn't work with Dirk, but he proved them wrong

 

[Holle]

And everyone "knew" it wouldn't work with Dirk, but he proved them wrong

So you're saying you had the same confidence in Crouch on the wing as with Kuyt on the wing?

 

[Athens]

Lucas Leiva, who later spent 10 years at the club;

This sentence right here is where his argument falls apart.

 

[mark1975]

I hate this criticism of Rafa

It was one match, it didnt work, he followed it up by the equally ridiculous decision to play Dirk Kuyt on the wing ... that did work.

Should we call Klopp a tool because he played Fabinho and Henderson at CB once?

No, because Klopp did it out of necessity, Rafa thought it was a good tactic to play two static centre forwards outwide.

That's schoolboy error stuff.

 

[keniget]

The single most maddening thing about Rafa's time in Liverpool was his inability to buy decent players for the wide areas.

We always prioritised quantity over quality, other areas or replacing the shit we bought the previous transfer window every year.


Replace the likes of Zenden, Riera, Gonzalez et al with even just one good pacey player and we'd have probably won at least one more major trophy.

 

[Delinquent]

Every time I feel like I'm softening to Rafa (or forgetting how infuriating he was) he goes and refreshes my memory with another misguided rant in defence of his fragile ego.

 

[Judge Jules]

So you're saying you had the same confidence in Crouch on the wing as with Kuyt on the wing?

I did, namely none in either case.

I'll always go easy on Rafa because of Istanbul, but he needs to zip it once and for all now.

 

[tombrown]

So you're saying you had the same confidence in Crouch on the wing as with Kuyt on the wing?

No - I had no confidence in either of them on the wing. Rafa proved, with Kuyt, that my lack of confidence was incorrect, in that instance

Every manager occasionally tries playing someone out of position. Kenny Dalglish once played 6 fullbacks in a line up at Highbury, and, as I said, Klopp played Henderson & Fabinho at center back when he had Nat Phillips and Rhys Williams available, neither of those ended well. But the one game experiment that Rafa once did is constantly brought up to ridicule him.

He was an excellent manager, who brought us a lot of success and came the closest to winning the league in 20 years, all while managing under toxic ownership. He isn't as good as Klopp, that is clear, and he is being a bit of a dickhead with his latest statements, but I don't like him being ridiculed and portrayed as someone who didn't have a clue, I find it disrespectful to a manager who served us well and improved our standing in the game.

 

[singlerider]

In fairness, I don't think any of us could've foreseen Dirk becoming the best defensive right winger in the business

 

[StevieM]

I’m always going to love Rafa - but outside of Liverpool he seemed to develop this unfortunate thing of being the manager big clubs brought in when they wanted someone to make do with the squad they had without investing huge amounts or to be the guy to hold things together in the short term.

He went to Inter, Real, Everton even, and basically didn’t get any sort of budget to buy.

Not that any of us should give two hairy fucks about any of that.

The problem is, his approach to football got overtaken by the emergence of the Fraudiola & Klopp approaches - with more teams playing like that now, Benitez and the likes of Moanrinho start to look like modern day George Graham & Graham Taylor’s.

I never really listen much to what he says - prefer to remember Istanbul, That little period where we demolishing Man U & Real Madrid in quick succession, being truly feared in Europe again.

Anyway - he’s a smart man and knows football - if he livened up a bit he could get a job doing tactical analysis stuff with Carra or something.

 

[peekay]

I’m always going to love Rafa - but outside of Liverpool he seemed to develop this unfortunate thing of being the manager big clubs brought in when they wanted someone to make do with the squad they had without investing huge amounts or to be the guy to hold things together in the short term.

He went to Inter, Real, Everton even, and basically didn’t get any sort of budget to buy.

Do you see the flaw in your logic?

 

[Hyena]

We are just spoiled with Klopp.


Rafa is on the same level tactically, emotionally, and PR wise as Arteta, Conte, Tuchel, Gerrard, Viera etc.

 

[peekay]

Completely unnecessary from Rafa. His place in Liverpool history is guaranteed due to Istanbul. He does not need to overplay his achievements or compare his situation with Klopp.

Rafa would not have worked with FSG as the first time Edwards would suggest someone Rafa did not look at, leaks to the press about how unhappy he is would begin. If Edwards had suggested, don't look at Brandt; look at Salah instead, that would have been the beginning of the end. Within six months, he would create a back me or sack me ultimatum to the owners. He would have initiated a media campaign to get the transfer committee sacked to install his own scouts.

I will always remember him fondly for what he did for our club. But he should stop with the Klopp comparisons.

 

[StevieM]

Do you see the flaw in your logic?

Everton probably spent more than the other two in recent years.

Which is even funnier.