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The RAFAEL OUT thread

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Glock21

HMS2001
Member
Now,

It's clear to all unblinkered people that it's time for Benitez to go. He's simply not up to the task at hand. He's been living off a fluke CL win for 5 years now and as we stand in mid/late October we have no chance of winning the league(finishing in the top 4 would be huge achievement at this point) and are for all intends and purposes, barring a miracle, out of the CL.

Rafa's tactically inept and the most predictable manager in the league. Nobody needs to watch match footage of Liverpool, they just know how we play. High tempo from the start, try to grab an early goal. and if we do, sit back and defend and try to use Gerrard and Torres to snatch a second goal on the break. Rafa will never make a change in the first half or at half time unless theres an injury and every one knows that between the 60th and 65th minute he will make a change.

His team selection baffles and his substitutions often border on the ridiculous. Countless times whilst chasing games Rafa has replaced an attacking player with a fullback.

His record in the transfer market is awful. And his performance in the last transfer window was the worst since the days of Souness. He spent 17million on a right back we didn't need whilst we were crying out for a top class centreback. The rightback has shown to be awful defensively and his arrival has coincided with our defense falling apart, hardly a coincidence. He dragged the Alonso deal out all summer, got a terrible deal and at the same time alienated all of Alonso's friends. He left it so we had no time to scout and sign the right player. Then he panicked and signed a player who has never proved he's worth anything of the sort, for 20million. This player was not only carrying an existing injury but was known as one of the most injury prone players in Europe. Rafa assured he'd be back in 6-8 weeks. That was 10 weeks ago and he's still a couple of weeks away from starting for the first team at which point it will be a month or so before he even starts to feel comfortable. He also managed to fall out with Mascherano during this summer.

Rafa has spent a huge amount of money building this team, and HIS team have won NOTHING.

He does nothing but complain and place the blame on everyone else, never accepting that the buck stops with him. It's his fault. No matter what happens, as manager(and having grabbed every bit of power he could) it's his fault. Players are out of form, his fault. He picks the team. Aquilani not played yet, his fault. He bought him knowing he was hurt. No squad depth, his fault. He makes all transfer decision and he's the one that's wasted the clubs funds.

Last season was Rafa's only chance to win the league and Chelski were in a mess and United stumbled through the season and he failed. When he couldn't win it last season it was time to start looking for a new manager. SIX defeats so far this season. Simply not good enough.

He's lost the players support, he's losing the fans as was evidenced by the mass boos and jeers after Lyon match.

The pro-Rafa brigade have no response except for "it will cost too much to get rid of him" and "who is there to replace him".

In the world of football there are many managers who are more than good enough to replace him and do a far better job. Perhaps an experienced coach, like Del Bosque after the World Cup. Maybe even Capello. Perhaps a Mourinho. Or give youth a chance and go with someone like Laudrup. Get rid of Rafa now and put Sammy Lee and Kenny Dalglish in charge with a two pronged mission, for Sammy, take charge of the team and get them winning again with Kenny acting as mentor/advisor and for Kenny, start compiling a list of possible new managers and get the scouting network watching them instead of wasting their time looking for the next Ngog. By March we can have a shortlist in place and whittle that down until we can approach the chosen one and make them an offer. Be it a non-National team coach we can have them in place by June 1st and they can have the whole summer to start getting things sorted, or if it's a Del Bosque/Capello type, then have the agreement in place and make the announcement the day after their country gets knocked out.

Getting rid of Rafa will also help in attracting new owners. It's a lot harder to sell a club with a manager who's known to be difficult and who the new owners would have to pay off than it is to tell the new owners that they can pick their own man but that the hunt is already on and that they don't need to worry about severance for the outgoing manager, its all taken care of. With new owners in place, the clubs finances would hopefully be sorted, thus making the club more attractive for a top manager. So really, getting rid of Rafa will work in both cases.

It's time to say thanks for Istanbul Rafa but you're no longer needed here.

RAFA OUT!!
 
Girl, i suggest you just start looking for a new club immediately so that you and Rafa have somewhere to go when he leaves Liverpool.
 
kim_jong_il_1.jpg
 
Below is a post copy and pasted from one of Liverpool fan in other forum.

Absolutely. I would say though, let's wait until the Man U game. If he loses that he really has no excuses left. But then all he's done since he's been at Liverpool is make excuses for his lame management abilities. He's practically blamed everything but himself for everything that's gone wrong at the club. From Parry, to the board, to lack of money (most of it wasted) to treating his players like chess-pieces (even Gerrard in his book said he doesn't treat you like a human being, something even Houllier managed to do at the very least) to even falling out with his long time friend Pako Ayestarán! I mean how bad is it I ask you, when you actually can't even get on with someone you've been friends with for years! It's pretty well known by now that Benitez is a man who is stubborn as a mule and not one who likes to be told he's wrong, it's quite possible that this was one of the reasons for Ayestarán's departure. Ayestarán had much more influence with the squad, In fact it was Ayestarán himself that spent time with the players talking and working with them, not Benitez. Jealosy may have played a part but I'm less inclined to believe that and more favorable to the position that Benitez and Ayestarán had such a gulf between them in football matters and practices on and off the pitch that Ayestarán found it impossible to continue working with him and that Benitez would not entertain any alternative opinion to his methods. Really, what does that say to you about the man Benitez. Alonso, Ayestarán, the owners, and pretty much his entire staff. I know staff come and go, that's normal - once every so often but this is pathetic, and all to justify Benitez's mega-lo-mania in wanting complete control over every aspect of the club. Well you have control Rafa, you're still over-rated and clueless, and Liverpool are going nowhere but backwards under your management. When are you prepared to blame yourself in the teams shortcomings? Or are you that egotistical?!

Ayestarán's departure was quite a while back but over the summer I'm counting maybe 16 staff members (many who had excellent service with the club and were well liked) who were effectively given the sack for no other reason than Benitez wanted them out. You may justify the departure of Ablett because of poor reserve results and maybe a few others, but this is simply ridiculous:

Gary Ablett (Reserve manager, 2 years service)
Piet Hamburg (Academy director 2 years service)
Hugh McAuley (Under 18's coach 20 years service)
Dave Shannon (Under 16's coach 20 years service)
Paul Lever (Under 14's coach 18 years service)
Billy Stewart (Academy goalkeeper coach 10 years service)
Norman Gard (Players liason officer 15 years service)
Tim Divine (Education officer 15 years service)
John Wright (Masseur and Kit man 15 years service)
Victor Salinas (Physio 4 years service)
Gerard Nus (Sports scientist 2 years service)
Angel Vales (Sports scientist 1 year service)
Simon Farnworth (Academy physio 10 years service)
John Coburn (Academy physio 8 years service)
Jan De Koning (Assistant academy director 2 years service)
Tim Dittmar (Academy goalkeeper coach 8 years service)

Distressed former employees with well over 150 years service between them argue they've been given no valid reason for the termination of contracts and are unhappy with the club's first offers for pay-off packages.

So come the 25th Rafa, if you lose, no it's not Alonso, no it's not money, no it's not Ayestarán, no it's not your staff, no it's not Parry and no, it's not even the owners, it's just your bad management, and it's you who should finally go!
 
[quote author=Glock link=topic=36631.msg968466#msg968466 date=1256181649]
Now,

It's clear to all unblinkered people that it's time for Benitez to go. He's simply not up to the task at hand. He's been living off a fluke CL win for 5 years now and as we stand in mid/late October we have no chance of winning the league(finishing in the top 4 would be huge achievement at this point) and are for all intends and purposes, barring a miracle, out of the CL.

Rafa's tactically inept and the most predictable manager in the league. Nobody needs to watch match footage of Liverpool, they just know how we play. High tempo from the start, try to grab an early goal. and if we do, sit back and defend and try to use Gerrard and Torres to snatch a second goal on the break. Rafa will never make a change in the first half or at half time unless theres an injury and every one knows that between the 60th and 65th minute he will make a change.

His team selection baffles and his substitutions often border on the ridiculous. Countless times whilst chasing games Rafa has replaced an attacking player with a fullback.

His record in the transfer market is awful. And his performance in the last transfer window was the worst since the days of Souness. He spent 17million on a right back we didn't need whilst we were crying out for a top class centreback. The rightback has shown to be awful defensively and his arrival has coincided with our defense falling apart, hardly a coincidence. He dragged the Alonso deal out all summer, got a terrible deal and at the same time alienated all of Alonso's friends. He left it so we had no time to scout and sign the right player. Then he panicked and signed a player who has never proved he's worth anything of the sort, for 20million. This player was not only carrying an existing injury but was known as one of the most injury prone players in Europe. Rafa assured he'd be back in 6-8 weeks. That was 10 weeks ago and he's still a couple of weeks away from starting for the first team at which point it will be a month or so before he even starts to feel comfortable. He also managed to fall out with Mascherano during this summer.

Rafa has spent a huge amount of money building this team, and HIS team have won NOTHING.

He does nothing but complain and place the blame on everyone else, never accepting that the buck stops with him. It's his fault. No matter what happens, as manager(and having grabbed every bit of power he could) it's his fault. Players are out of form, his fault. He picks the team. Aquilani not played yet, his fault. He bought him knowing he was hurt. No squad depth, his fault. He makes all transfer decision and he's the one that's wasted the clubs funds.

Last season was Rafa's only chance to win the league and Chelski were in a mess and United stumbled through the season and he failed. When he couldn't win it last season it was time to start looking for a new manager. SIX defeats so far this season. Simply not good enough.

He's lost the players support, he's losing the fans as was evidenced by the mass boos and jeers after Lyon match.

The pro-Rafa brigade have no response except for "it will cost too much to get rid of him" and "who is there to replace him".

In the world of football there are many managers who are more than good enough to replace him and do a far better job. Perhaps an experienced coach, like Del Bosque after the World Cup. Maybe even Capello. Perhaps a Mourinho. Or give youth a chance and go with someone like Laudrup. Get rid of Rafa now and put Sammy Lee and Kenny Dalglish in charge with a two pronged mission, for Sammy, take charge of the team and get them winning again with Kenny acting as mentor/advisor and for Kenny, start compiling a list of possible new managers and get the scouting network watching them instead of wasting their time looking for the next Ngog. By March we can have a shortlist in place and whittle that down until we can approach the chosen one and make them an offer. Be it a non-National team coach we can have them in place by June 1st and they can have the whole summer to start getting things sorted, or if it's a Del Bosque/Capello type, then have the agreement in place and make the announcement the day after their country gets knocked out.

Getting rid of Rafa will also help in attracting new owners. It's a lot harder to sell a club with a manager who's known to be difficult and who the new owners would have to pay off than it is to tell the new owners that they can pick their own man but that the hunt is already on and that they don't need to worry about severance for the outgoing manager, its all taken care of. With new owners in place, the clubs finances would hopefully be sorted, thus making the club more attractive for a top manager. So really, getting rid of Rafa will work in both cases.

It's time to say thanks for Istanbul Rafa but you're no longer needed here.

RAFA OUT!!
[/quote]

Signs of a cunt who wants the manager out, as opposed to a reasonable individual who wants the manager out.

1) Shitting on his best achievements, and the good he has done. All of a sudden he's lucky, it's a fluke.
2) Overstating the case, for instance he's lost the fans (that were singing his name at halftime).
3) Making bare assertions (he's lost the locker room, for which there is no evidence)

You make a few critiques that are obvious and have been made a billion times. The rest is utter nonsense. I especially love the idea that it would be easier to sell a club with no stable ownership or management. Yea, it would be easy to sell a club in total crisis, Newcastle proved that. Did you see all the people lining up to take advantage of an opportunity, and an owner willing to take a massive loss, that's right, you didn't.

The thing that always gets me is the characterization of prior success. "Thanks for Istanbul" You just plainly stated it wasn't down to him, it was a fluke, so stick to it, you fickle piece of shit.

Maybe Rafa won't make it, I'm one of the few that genuinely likes the guy, and I also never thought we had a chance this season, but if he did go, I'm not about to start reveling in being the first to write his obituary, when this "RAFA out thread" has been made every single fucking year, by a whole cast of characters. He did a world of good for the club, he brought us to another level, and if it still wasn't enough, I'm not going to start revising history. Rafa has given me by far and away my best memory of being a Liverpool supporter.
 
That's just not fair Glock.

You PROMISED you wouldn't bring up the departure of Tim Dittmar Academy Goalkeeping Coach in front of me again. You know full well how upset and riled that makes me.
 
What's wrong, Glock? Did he burn the toast at last week's dinner..?

I thought this was your close personal friend...
 
His team selection baffles and his substitutions often border on the ridiculous

Oh yes, I remember when glock used to stand by Rafael non-stop, even when he started players who were playing like such shite, "No, Rafael knows what he's doing. He whispered his plans in my ear after we danced a slow dance last night".

To quote Ryan, eat shit glock.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36631.msg968477#msg968477 date=1256185059]
That's just not fair Glock.

You PROMISED you wouldn't bring up the departure of Tim Dittmar Academy Goalkeeping Coach in front of me again. You know full well how upset and riled that makes me.
[/quote]

sign17_1403021i.jpg
 
Absolutely. I would say though, let's wait until the Man U game. If he loses that he really has no excuses left.

keeping/binning a manager 9 games into the season based the outcome of a single game makes complete sense
 
Which point has he got, what ever point it is I think someone should stick it up his arse
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36631.msg968494#msg968494 date=1256192104]
Absolutely. I would say though, let's wait until the Man U game. If he loses that he really has no excuses left.

keeping/binning a manager 9 games into the season based the outcome of a single game makes complete sense
[/quote]

Better to sack him now rather than wait until we get relegated.
 
Hmmmmm! Things arent going well for sure. And ive never been Rafa's biggest fan.
But.
A)who would we get who's better midseason?
B)we cant afford it.
C)a new manager would have no money to change anything.
D)a new manager would signal a new 5 year plan.
E)a new manager would bow down to the Americans.
Im not in favour of pulling the trigger yet.
As i said in another thread we could lose 8 games and still get 90pts. The title isnt lost yet. We're easily capable of winning 3 european ties to stay in the champions league. We're still in with a chance of 4 trophies the season after our record points haul.
And yeah regardless of press shenanigans we DO have some cracking players-Reina, Agger, Johnson, Mascherano, Kuyt, Gerrard, Aquilani, Torres its a fucking great YOUNG base.
Anyway, i may change this stance after United, Arsenal and Lyon end our chance of three trophies but for now i dont see what good it would do? Would a new manager be better equiped to beat United?
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36631.msg968494#msg968494 date=1256192104]
Absolutely. I would say though, let's wait until the Man U game. If he loses that he really has no excuses left.

keeping/binning a manager 9 games into the season based the outcome of a single game makes complete sense
[/quote]It wouldnt be based on one game would it? It would be based on 9 games.
 
[quote author=Glock link=topic=36631.msg968498#msg968498 date=1256192739]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36631.msg968494#msg968494 date=1256192104]
Absolutely. I would say though, let's wait until the Man U game. If he loses that he really has no excuses left.

keeping/binning a manager 9 games into the season based the outcome of a single game makes complete sense
[/quote]

Better to sack him now rather than wait until we get relegated.
[/quote]
relegted for fuck sake you must be joking now get a life someone get glock a doctor please
 
[quote author=acejmk link=topic=36631.msg968496#msg968496 date=1256192603]
Which point has he got, what ever point it is I think someone should stick it up his arse
[/quote]

Yeah we are not allowed to question Rafael's decision. We are not allowed to have a point on why we lost 4 fucking games so early in the season. We are only allowed to watch our beloved club go down the drain with a stubborn manager incharged.

Rafael takes no blame or responsibility that we have lost 4 games on the trot. Nothing is ever his fault in your eyes.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36631.msg968499#msg968499 date=1256192875]
Hmmmmm! Things arent going well for sure. And ive never been Rafa's biggest fan.
But.
A)who would we get who's better midseason?
B)we cant afford it.
C)a new manager would have no money to change anything.
D)a new manager would signal a new 5 year plan.
E)a new manager would bow down to the Americans.
Im not in favour of pulling the trigger yet.
As i said in another thread we could lose 8 games and still get 90pts. The title isnt lost yet. We're easily capable of winning 3 european ties to stay in the champions league. We're still in with a chance of 4 trophies the season after our record points haul.
And yeah regardless of press shenanigans we DO have some cracking players-Reina, Agger, Johnson, Mascherano, Kuyt, Gerrard, Aquilani, Torres its a fucking great YOUNG base.
Anyway, i may change this stance after United, Arsenal and Lyon end our chance of three trophies but for now i dont see what good it would do? Would a new manager be better equiped to beat United?
[/quote]

Forget about the title Oncy. Win, lose or draw this Sunday Rafael has to go. He's going to get sacked on the basis of not winning the league in 6 attempts. Same as Houllier who won more trophies than Rafael.

Next manager will get a minimum of 3 years, maximum of 5. Sammy to take charge with Kenny until the end of the season and hopefully we can get Capello in. Or Mourinho/Hiztfeld/Hinddink/Laurent Blanc/Jupp Heynckes/Radomir Antic/Jose Camacho. That's the name top of my head right now.

With Rafael hopefully gone soon we can start getting to work in January on a getting some players signed to pre-contracts. People like Chamakh would mean that the new manager would be walking into a far stronger squad than Rafael will be leaving behind.

Rafael's lack of action in the free agent and markets in the summer gone was just ridiculous. It was almost like he didn't want to sign players because it would take away 3 of his most used excuses.
 
[quote author=Glock link=topic=36631.msg968505#msg968505 date=1256193271]
Rafael takes no blame or responsibility that we have lost 4 games on the trot.
[/quote]

Of course he shares the blame, however I always find it strange when people say this. What exactly is it based on? Post match interviews? He's predictably coy/politic/says nothing 99% of the time, whether we win or lose. He doesn't declare himself the reason we won, or lose, he just gives nothing answers that emphasize team over any individual.

I am positive that it's no fun to be Rafa Benitez right now, and I'm sure that he feels responsible. Just as Houllier did even though he was blaming the wind, it hurt him to lose. How do you think managers get to this level?
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36631.msg968502#msg968502 date=1256193061]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36631.msg968494#msg968494 date=1256192104]
Absolutely. I would say though, let's wait until the Man U game. If he loses that he really has no excuses left.

keeping/binning a manager 9 games into the season based the outcome of a single game makes complete sense
[/quote]It wouldnt be based on one game would it? It would be based on 9 games.
[/quote]

Would be based on 6 fucking years more like.
 
I think Rafa must have given glock food poisoning. How else can we explain this uncontrollable amount of shit?

20 million sacking Rafa
Minimum 10 million getting a new one by way of compensation
Then we pay the new manager
Is Rafa worth potentially 40 million cost because of the teams lack of form?
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36631.msg968502#msg968502 date=1256193061]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36631.msg968494#msg968494 date=1256192104]
Absolutely. I would say though, let's wait until the Man U game. If he loses that he really has no excuses left.

keeping/binning a manager 9 games into the season based the outcome of a single game makes complete sense
[/quote]It wouldnt be based on one game would it? It would be based on 9 games.
[/quote]

oh, NINE games...
 
[quote author=Glock link=topic=36631.msg968510#msg968510 date=1256193752]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36631.msg968502#msg968502 date=1256193061]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36631.msg968494#msg968494 date=1256192104]
Absolutely. I would say though, let's wait until the Man U game. If he loses that he really has no excuses left.

keeping/binning a manager 9 games into the season based the outcome of a single game makes complete sense
[/quote]It wouldnt be based on one game would it? It would be based on 9 games.
[/quote]

Would be based on 6 fucking years more like.
[/quote]

6 years
CL
FAC
CL final
CC final
CL qualification every year
CL 2nd stage every year

conisidering chelsea have spent more money (and they have) and considering the experience of manu I think rafa has done well, dare I say overachieved with a 2nd place finish.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36631.msg968512#msg968512 date=1256193863]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36631.msg968502#msg968502 date=1256193061]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36631.msg968494#msg968494 date=1256192104]
Absolutely. I would say though, let's wait until the Man U game. If he loses that he really has no excuses left.

keeping/binning a manager 9 games into the season based the outcome of a single game makes complete sense
[/quote]It wouldnt be based on one game would it? It would be based on 9 games.
[/quote]

oh, NINE games...
[/quote]Dont get fucking sarccy with me, ive already said im not in favour of it, im pointing out that your shameless sensationalising and belittleing are duly noted.
I think sacking a manager 9 games into a season is daft but that doesnt mean im right.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36631.msg968515#msg968515 date=1256194142]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36631.msg968512#msg968512 date=1256193863]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36631.msg968502#msg968502 date=1256193061]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36631.msg968494#msg968494 date=1256192104]
Absolutely. I would say though, let's wait until the Man U game. If he loses that he really has no excuses left.

keeping/binning a manager 9 games into the season based the outcome of a single game makes complete sense
[/quote]It wouldnt be based on one game would it? It would be based on 9 games.
[/quote]

oh, NINE games...
[/quote]Dont get fucking sarccy with me, ive already said im not in favour of it, im pointing out that your shameless sensationalising and belittleing are duly noted.
I think sacking a manager 9 games into a season is daft but that doesnt mean im right.

[/quote]

I wouldn't sake the manager after nine games even if he'd lost all nine games and were rock bottom of the league. people wanted rafa out during the winter slump but we eventually came 2nd. I'm not going to make out I have the patience of job but there is a right time and a wrong time and personally I don't ever thing the right time is midseason.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36631.msg968513#msg968513 date=1256194071]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=36631.msg968510#msg968510 date=1256193752]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36631.msg968502#msg968502 date=1256193061]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36631.msg968494#msg968494 date=1256192104]
Absolutely. I would say though, let's wait until the Man U game. If he loses that he really has no excuses left.

keeping/binning a manager 9 games into the season based the outcome of a single game makes complete sense
[/quote]It wouldnt be based on one game would it? It would be based on 9 games.
[/quote]

Would be based on 6 fucking years more like.
[/quote]

6 years
CL
FAC
CL final
CC final
CL qualification every year
CL 2nd stage every year

conisidering chelsea have spent more money (and they have) and considering the experience of manu I think rafa has done well, dare I say overachieved with a 2nd place finish.
[/quote]

There are plenty of managers that could take this team and with NO MONEY make a couple of moves and make it a title winning team.

Rafa is just not good enough to do it.

Over-achieved with 2nd place?? ??

I'm sure Mourinho would fucking laugh and spit on Rafael's face if Rafael said that to him.
 
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