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The midfield

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momoWASboss said:
If we had a rainy day fund then people will scream we should’ve spent it three seasons ago. If we get an injection of £50 million people would want that every season.
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You realise that the people who own us are BILLIONAIRES, right?

And that it's totally normal for business owners to occasionally have to invest some of their own money or incur losses or take on debt in order to make more money in the future, right?

It's hardly hysteria to wonder if maybe the guys making hundreds of millions a year from us should occasionally be willing to take the odd risk in return.
 
peterhague said:
You realise that the people who own us are BILLIONAIRES, right?

And that it's totally normal for business owners to occasionally have to invest some of their own money or incur losses or take on debt in order to make more money in the future, right?

It's hardly hysteria to wonder if maybe the guys making hundreds of millions a year from us should occasionally be willing to take the odd risk in return.
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We aren’t talking a regular business here. How many other businesses restrict how much you can put into it to trade?

And how much have made from us? The value of the asset has grown but none of that is actually realised till it’s sold. They could get access to cheap loans based on that value, but things could go to shit and we are wound up to pay those loans. Which nearly happened to this very club.
 

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momoWASboss said:
We aren’t talking a regular business here. How many other businesses restrict how much you can put into it to trade?

And how much have made from us? The value of the asset has grown but none of that is actually realised till it’s sold. They could get access to cheap loans based on that value, but things could go to shit and we are wound up to pay those loans. Which nearly happened to this very club.
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But the restrictions bolster my point!

They have an absolutely valid excuse for not putting excessive amounts in. What imo they don't have (from a fan's POV) is an excuse for putting NOTHING in - even just as short term help.

There should be a balance between mortgaging the club's future and never investing anything ever just so we can fulfil this arbitrary and self-serving destiny of being "self-sustaining".
 
tomasjj said:
graphs like that are always funny
the lads play in different team, different leagues
yes somehow comparable eh?
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And why is Jude Bellingham ... "the ideal middle ground"? Surely the ideal is Keita's tackling stats allied with Jones' dribbling !
 
peterhague said:
But the restrictions bolster my point!

They have an absolutely valid excuse for not putting excessive amounts in. What imo they don't have (from a fan's POV) is an excuse for putting NOTHING in - even just as short term help.

There should be a balance between mortgaging the club's future and never investing anything ever just so we can fulfil this arbitrary and self-serving destiny of being "self-sustaining".
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That brings me back to the point I made about it being what we want every season. We would cry out if we didn’t add another £100 million each and every season thereafter.
 
Let me get this straight. You want someone to pump in additional money each and every season on top of the £600 million income we already receive?
 
And they don’t give a shit now. They run it like a business with no emotional attachment.
 
Yep. We're the ones paying fucking huge percentages of our disposable incomes so these guys can get even more ludicrously wealthy.

That implies entitlement.
 
momoWASboss said:
Let me get this straight. You want someone to pump in additional money each and every season on top of the £600 million income we already receive?
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Nope. But at crucial times lend us a little bit of investment on the playing side. When we have a midfield or central defensive crisis. I don't mean we should live on credit cards. But occasionally, when things are going tough, we all have (with the exception of business class flying @Red rose 😉) put a little of extra money on the card with the intention of paying it off later.

And I wouldn't expect that under every manager. We have potentially one of the all time greats managing us. Yes, we can point fingers at the transfer committee and manager for holding on to some midfielders for longer than necessary. But the mistakes we have made with this manager transfer committee combination is so much below what is the norm. Transfers are not an exact science and this team's record is so good. So occasionally when they fail, bail them out.

And the more rational posters here are not asking for spend, spend, spend. It is about moving some of the budget forward. They could have spent on a central defender four months earlier and we may have not needed a Allison header. Same way, spend some of the midfielder budget next year and buy one midfielder this year.
 
Beamrider said:
I think there's a clue in the detail of what Klopp says here:

"I am not careful, we get told what is possible and what isn’t. That’s it. In this range we try to work it."

That reads to me like he gets given a budget to work with (that is what he means by "range"). Within that budget FSG are probably happy for him to do whatever he wants, they'll trust his judgment on players and what he needs, but they don't want him to spend beyond the amount allowed. Whether you like it or not, this is not abnormal. The manager has discretion to shape his squad how he sees fit, but he doesn't have carte blanche to spend money the club doesn't have.

He also made a comment the other day about wanting to take more risks - I saw that as more likely to be a criticism of the transfer committee than the funds available to him. He maybe thinks the committee approach is too cautious. But with all of this, we need to remember that, when he signed, he said he had final say on transfers - I took that to mean that if the committee was recommending signing a player and he didn't want to do it, then we wouldn't sign that player. I'm not sure it necessarily means that if he wants to sign a player and the committee doesn't, that he has the right to go over their heads - I suspect in that situation he would need to get FSG (i.e. Mike Gordon) to OK it.

So I don't think the current situation is ideal, there's clearly a bit of tension there, but I don't think there's a major relationship problem.

I do think there is still money available to spend, but I think the current tension may be about the committee saying we should not panic-buy this week, and maybe set up a deal or two for January instead.

And finally, just a reminder that a lot of our spare cash is being spent on the Annie Road this year. I expect there to be more funds to spend next summer (it will be the first time in three years where we won't have a major capital project on the go), and this, perhaps, explains why we're OK letting some players run their contracts down. Realistically, given their injury issues, Keita and Ox wouldn't command much in the way of fees if they could be sold this month and Bobby isn't getting any younger so also doesn't have massive re-sale value. I expect next summer's window will see those players replaced by guys who are more viable long-term, and that there will be money available to do that. If there are opportunities to do those deals in January then some of them might be advanced (as we saw with Diaz in January this year).
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I totally agree with your last paragraph, and it explains a lot. However, we are still taking a massive risk - and could fuck up getting 4th. If that happens we ain't signing much next summer, and FSG must come to realize that the money being spent by other clubs to improve will become a problem for us, because at some stage the spending by United, and Arsenal et al will come good for those teams, and it looks like it is this season. However, has to be said - the FSG spend and Klopp will meet their year on year ambitions to reach at least 4th position. That is all we can hope for.
 
peterhague said:
Haha you've got to be fucking kidding. A customer? Fuck off
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Yes you are. You paying a broadcaster, a sportswear manufacturer or any other business attached to the club means nothing. You’re just a source of revenue. Buying a ticket entitles you to go watch a game of football. You’re nothing special. Fucking entitlement indeed.
 
momoWASboss said:
Yes you are. You paying a broadcaster, a sportswear manufacturer or any other business attached to the club means nothing. You’re just a source of revenue. Buying a ticket entitles you to go watch a game of football. You’re nothing special. Fucking entitlement indeed.
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Exactly this.

You hold a cinema membership card? Shop at Costco ? Love buying a particular brand of clothes? Just because we love the club, and despite the obvious differences, it doesn't make us any different to any of the above.
None of them would exist without 'supporters' and all are there to supply a product, whether it's entertainment or end use. The time of clubs being 'community entities' has long gone (regardless of how much the club gives back to a community). Entitled my arse.
 
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localny said:
So this is a blackmark for the new lad Ward maybe? Failed to persuade any of our midfield targets

Maybe FSG need to realize we are now in the big league and while their model was great in getting us here, we need to be less risk averse to stay here?

Did all this Salah persuasion time take away from finding a midfielder?
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I don't believe we had any midfield targets who were available this Summer, not that we were prepared to pay the extra premium for to secure them this early (ie, maybe Bellingham).

So the criticism really should be on the system and whether waiting always works. I don't believe we would deliberately put ourselves in a position where we are wondering if we can bring in a last gasp signing on the final day, unless there has been a significant change to force a rethink.

We make a point of saying we don't panic buy, so if we do buy anyone today it's because injuries and perhaps a change in opinion over Keita's future has forced the decision. It happens, but it smacks of a decision that's been forced on us late. It doesn't tally up with our usual behaviour in the transfer market.
 
Wouldnt surprise me if a deal with Bellingham is announced after the Transfer deadline has passed.
Henry Winter's comments seem to suggest that a deal is in place already.
 
momoWASboss said:
You’re not entitled to anything. You’re a customer.
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Customer is always right though, don’t you know?

But seriously, no one is asking for 100m.
Are we seriously saying we can’t do a one off 50m spend when the revenues are still growing?
Also, it’s also presumably about protecting FSG’s club value. Spend a little now and keep our CL status or risk falling out and know off a few hundred mill off the club resale value. Surely it makes sense to spend now and bed in a midfielder this season and another next season?
I understand the logic in sustainable business but I also want to maxmise Klopp time now.
I think we can do both…
 
Yes, customers can "vote with their feet" and protest, and they will be listened to.
Several cases in point when it comes to LFC versus different owners.
Latest was their super-league flirt.

"Custodians" they like to say, that is also not the truth, neither is that we are mere "customers".
 
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