The Lions squad
- Thread starter Rosco
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I had to do an emergency nappy change and paused the game for a few minutes. I was afraid to come back in case there were spoilers.
30-15 is probably a fair reflection of the game.
It was only in broken play that we looked dangerous. Otherwise it was a bit of a plodding performance, with a lack of polished execution when it came to set pieces and back line moves.
Maybe it was the All Black defence ? But i always felt this first test was a week too soon for us.
I think taking Te'o off was a bad call, if you're bringing Sexton on you take off Farrell who wasn't playing well. Itoje and Webb made impressions off the bench for me - but unfortunately in Webb's case i think he showed why he's a great change of pace off the bench. I'm not sure he'll start at all.
And when you give up soft tries off tap penalties and first phase scrum possession you're going to struggle. Defensively we need a strategy to deal with the inside passes.
And how many times did we badly field All Black kicks ?
For the second test - the only change i'd be looking to make is Sexton at 10 (Farrell on the bench).
The pack probably doesn't change much - the set pieces were largely fine but we couldn't execute moves to get over the line (from 5 metre line outs etc).
I'd obviously bring Best into the fold but i don't see it happening.
30-15 is probably a fair reflection of the game.
It was only in broken play that we looked dangerous. Otherwise it was a bit of a plodding performance, with a lack of polished execution when it came to set pieces and back line moves.
Maybe it was the All Black defence ? But i always felt this first test was a week too soon for us.
I think taking Te'o off was a bad call, if you're bringing Sexton on you take off Farrell who wasn't playing well. Itoje and Webb made impressions off the bench for me - but unfortunately in Webb's case i think he showed why he's a great change of pace off the bench. I'm not sure he'll start at all.
And when you give up soft tries off tap penalties and first phase scrum possession you're going to struggle. Defensively we need a strategy to deal with the inside passes.
And how many times did we badly field All Black kicks ?
For the second test - the only change i'd be looking to make is Sexton at 10 (Farrell on the bench).
The pack probably doesn't change much - the set pieces were largely fine but we couldn't execute moves to get over the line (from 5 metre line outs etc).
I'd obviously bring Best into the fold but i don't see it happening.
That haka was shit. The 'ka mate' one is great, the recent derivatives have been toilet.
I'd be interested to read what non-England fans think of Farrell, I think he's crap. Mind you, I don't think there is a great stand-off in this squad.
Teo was doing well, he should have stayed on.
I like the look of that Welsh scrum half, looks to have a bit about him.
The full-back was a good choice from an attacking perspective, looks a bit suspect on the back foot but worth a selection.
I'd try Sexton with that Welsh SH and keep the rest, Davies was good. Maybe bring Itoje in as well.
I'd be interested to read what non-England fans think of Farrell, I think he's crap. Mind you, I don't think there is a great stand-off in this squad.
Teo was doing well, he should have stayed on.
I like the look of that Welsh scrum half, looks to have a bit about him.
The full-back was a good choice from an attacking perspective, looks a bit suspect on the back foot but worth a selection.
I'd try Sexton with that Welsh SH and keep the rest, Davies was good. Maybe bring Itoje in as well.
I'd say so, yes, although when he's on his game (which he wasn't today) he's at the very top end of that particular measure.
TBH though this whole Lions squad is somewhat functional by comparison with the best of its predecessors, O'Brien's magnificent try notwithstanding.
TBH though this whole Lions squad is somewhat functional by comparison with the best of its predecessors, O'Brien's magnificent try notwithstanding.
I was thinking that myself. I reckon the 2nd test will be full of aggro as often is when the 1st is lost.
I don't say functional as an insult btw - he's an extremely capable player but to play the way we were set up to play we needed to get ahead and turn the screw by capitalising on mistakes, forcing penalties etc. Which is what New Zealand did.
Its like Mike Tyson's quote - everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.
Tactics dictate many of the selections when you have the players we do - who i think are a very strong squad. Its better than the 2013 one for me. I can't recall many others off the top of my head
Its like Mike Tyson's quote - everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.
Tactics dictate many of the selections when you have the players we do - who i think are a very strong squad. Its better than the 2013 one for me. I can't recall many others off the top of my head
It's certainly a decent squad (though Gatland arguably had a more talented one in Oz last time out). I was careful to compare it with the best of its predecessors, and what I had in mind there were the likes of the 70s squad which was the last one to win in NZ and the next Lions squad led by Willie John in S.Africa in 74, with its "99" battlecry. I'd have to do a survey of the others since to remind myself of their composition.
Reading some of the press reports this morning I've noticed one or two references to homer refereeing both today and earlier on the tour, especially from some of the Irish lads (Sexton, O'Brien and Furlong have all been quoted). It surprised me a bit, as my general impression has been that this tour has actually suffered less from that than some have in the past, but they'd know a sight better than I would.
Reading some of the press reports this morning I've noticed one or two references to homer refereeing both today and earlier on the tour, especially from some of the Irish lads (Sexton, O'Brien and Furlong have all been quoted). It surprised me a bit, as my general impression has been that this tour has actually suffered less from that than some have in the past, but they'd know a sight better than I would.
A good summary of where the All Blacks got the upper hand
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/b...in-for-error-spent-all-blacks-will-get-better
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/b...in-for-error-spent-all-blacks-will-get-better
British & Irish Lions (v Hurricanes, Tuesday June 27, Westpac Stadium, Wellington, 7.35pm NZST/8.35am BST)
15. Jack Nowell – Exeter Chiefs, England, #828
14. Tommy Seymour – Glasgow Warriors, Scotland, #813
13. Jonathan Joseph – Bath Rugby, England, #809
12. Robbie Henshaw – Leinster, Ireland, #824
11. George North – Northampton Saints, Wales, #792
10. Dan Biggar – Ospreys, Wales, #821
9. Greig Laidlaw – Gloucester, Scotland, #810
1. Joe Marler – Harlequins, England, #811
2. Rory Best (c) – Ulster, Ireland, #793
3. Dan Cole – Leicester Tigers, England, #794
4. Iain Henderson – Ulster, Ireland, #808
5. Courtney Lawes – Northampton Saints, England, #826
6. James Haskell – Wasps, England, #823
7. Justin Tipuric – Ospreys, Wales, #786
8. CJ Stander – Munster, Ireland, #831
Replacements:
16. Kristian Dacey – Cardiff Blues, Wales
17. Allan Dell – Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland, ~834
18. Tomas Francis – Exeter Chiefs, Wales
19. Cory Hill – Newport Gwent Dragons, Wales
20. George Kruis – Saracens, England, # 817
21. Gareth Davies – Scarlets, Wales
22. Finn Russell – Glasgow Warriors, Scotland
23. Jared Payne – Ulster, Ireland, #830
15. Jack Nowell – Exeter Chiefs, England, #828
14. Tommy Seymour – Glasgow Warriors, Scotland, #813
13. Jonathan Joseph – Bath Rugby, England, #809
12. Robbie Henshaw – Leinster, Ireland, #824
11. George North – Northampton Saints, Wales, #792
10. Dan Biggar – Ospreys, Wales, #821
9. Greig Laidlaw – Gloucester, Scotland, #810
1. Joe Marler – Harlequins, England, #811
2. Rory Best (c) – Ulster, Ireland, #793
3. Dan Cole – Leicester Tigers, England, #794
4. Iain Henderson – Ulster, Ireland, #808
5. Courtney Lawes – Northampton Saints, England, #826
6. James Haskell – Wasps, England, #823
7. Justin Tipuric – Ospreys, Wales, #786
8. CJ Stander – Munster, Ireland, #831
Replacements:
16. Kristian Dacey – Cardiff Blues, Wales
17. Allan Dell – Edinburgh Rugby, Scotland, ~834
18. Tomas Francis – Exeter Chiefs, Wales
19. Cory Hill – Newport Gwent Dragons, Wales
20. George Kruis – Saracens, England, # 817
21. Gareth Davies – Scarlets, Wales
22. Finn Russell – Glasgow Warriors, Scotland
23. Jared Payne – Ulster, Ireland, #830
Yes, what a fucking tool. Have the courage of your convictions. Arch stupidity.
Yeah having gone and done it and explained/defended it , the worst was actually over. This is just an admission that the criticism was justified.
For Saturday - i wonder how many changes he'll make. The pack were dominated in the loose and there's an argument that they should be given a chance to redeem themselves.
But when you pick second rows designed to upset the lineout and they don't do it at all - and lose out all around the field as well then maybe a sea change is needed.
Itoje, Lawes and Henderson might be better suited to the 2nd Test.
The main problem was we never got forward momentum with carries by the pack and they did. But Stander is the best ball carrier in the squad and won't get a look in.
I'm guessing losing the first test will give Gatland the freedom to bring Warburton back in. But poor Justin Tipuric has no chance of playing despite being consistently excellent
For Saturday - i wonder how many changes he'll make. The pack were dominated in the loose and there's an argument that they should be given a chance to redeem themselves.
But when you pick second rows designed to upset the lineout and they don't do it at all - and lose out all around the field as well then maybe a sea change is needed.
Itoje, Lawes and Henderson might be better suited to the 2nd Test.
The main problem was we never got forward momentum with carries by the pack and they did. But Stander is the best ball carrier in the squad and won't get a look in.
I'm guessing losing the first test will give Gatland the freedom to bring Warburton back in. But poor Justin Tipuric has no chance of playing despite being consistently excellent
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Lions team to face New Zealand: L Williams; A Watson, J Davies, O Farrell, E Daly; J Sexton, C Murray; M Vunipola, J George, T Furlong; AW Jones, M Itoje; S Warburton (capt), S O’Brien, T Faletau. Reps: K Owens, J McGrath, K Sinckler, C Lawes, CJ Stander, R Webb, B Te’o, J Nowell.
Sonny Bill will be champing at the bit to attack down Farrell's channel. Farrell's defence is decent enough, but not Sonny Bill-decent.
Itoje in for Kruis is the right call. Kruis is an excellent lineout practitioner but we need more around the field than I've seen him produce.
Not sure what O'Mahony's done to be omitted from the squad altogether. Injured maybe?
Itoje in for Kruis is the right call. Kruis is an excellent lineout practitioner but we need more around the field than I've seen him produce.
Not sure what O'Mahony's done to be omitted from the squad altogether. Injured maybe?
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Just unfortunate i think.
We lost the battle around the fringes in the first test - their ball carriers were able to break the gain line and give them a platform to work from. Forwards were just gaining the hard yards and creating momentum by taking pop passes off the 9.
Stander is the best we have to do the same for us- and there was just no way he could leapfrog Warburton.
Te'o is hard done by. I've never been a fan of playing two 10's. We're putting more defensive pressure on the back row - because not only will Sonny Bill be looking to punch holes, they'll have Retallick, Cane and Read going at the 10 - 12 channel. If we overcommit to defending it we will get burned out wide.
That said if we redeem ourselves up front that is less of a problem. And then we're looking at two playmakers (and great kickers) putting the All Blacks under pressure but unless we're inventive in how we attack there's a danger we might just play a bit too lateral without a genuine 12 to straighten the line and sacrifice himself on crash ball.
I think i would have gone further in the pack after last weeks display:
Vunipola, Best, Furlong, Lawes, Itoje, O'Brien, Stander, Tipuric
Murray, Sexton, Daly, T'eo, Davies, Watson, Williams.
We lost the battle around the fringes in the first test - their ball carriers were able to break the gain line and give them a platform to work from. Forwards were just gaining the hard yards and creating momentum by taking pop passes off the 9.
Stander is the best we have to do the same for us- and there was just no way he could leapfrog Warburton.
Te'o is hard done by. I've never been a fan of playing two 10's. We're putting more defensive pressure on the back row - because not only will Sonny Bill be looking to punch holes, they'll have Retallick, Cane and Read going at the 10 - 12 channel. If we overcommit to defending it we will get burned out wide.
That said if we redeem ourselves up front that is less of a problem. And then we're looking at two playmakers (and great kickers) putting the All Blacks under pressure but unless we're inventive in how we attack there's a danger we might just play a bit too lateral without a genuine 12 to straighten the line and sacrifice himself on crash ball.
I think i would have gone further in the pack after last weeks display:
Vunipola, Best, Furlong, Lawes, Itoje, O'Brien, Stander, Tipuric
Murray, Sexton, Daly, T'eo, Davies, Watson, Williams.
Not sure re Farrell. Don't rate him that highly at 10, rate him less so at 12. Plus, Teo played well last week.
For me, the ABs are functional and efficient at the moment, rather than sensational, so there's a chance. But I can't see it.
For me, the ABs are functional and efficient at the moment, rather than sensational, so there's a chance. But I can't see it.
Just a few points:
T'eo must feel hard done by.
AWJ is lucky to get the nod over Kruis.
Glad that both Sam and Itoje are in.
You can see what Gatlands going for here, he's looking to sort out the breakdown and kick the fuck out of it all game. It's due to piss down so those tactics might have some merit, just can't see where the points needed to win are coming from
T'eo must feel hard done by.
AWJ is lucky to get the nod over Kruis.
Glad that both Sam and Itoje are in.
You can see what Gatlands going for here, he's looking to sort out the breakdown and kick the fuck out of it all game. It's due to piss down so those tactics might have some merit, just can't see where the points needed to win are coming from
I don't think Warburton for O'Mahony makes a difference to the breakdown - it didn't last week anyway.
What will make the difference is our attitude and aggression - we need to stop them dead at the gainline to be effective at the breakdown. And our own ball carriers up front need to power through contact to break the gain line.
What will make the difference is our attitude and aggression - we need to stop them dead at the gainline to be effective at the breakdown. And our own ball carriers up front need to power through contact to break the gain line.