The Diggler
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[quote author=Modo link=topic=45004.msg1317758#msg1317758 date=1303162582]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=45004.msg1317619#msg1317619 date=1303136303]
[quote author=GOD_23 link=topic=45004.msg1317558#msg1317558 date=1303130027]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=45004.msg1317522#msg1317522 date=1303125289]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=45004.msg1317508#msg1317508 date=1303124015]
Do you really need two tricky, dribbly pacy wingers in modern footy?
Say for example our RB is pacy and capable like Magic then is it so important from that side of the pitch. Dirk can improve his crossing of course but if we have an excellent LW then having Dirk as an almost 3rd striker goals tally wise out on the right is a massive advantage.
Not many top teams have two Digger Barnes/Macca type wingers out wide.
[/quote]
Barca: Pedro/Iniests and Messi
Madrid: Di MAria and Ronaldo
Arsenal: Walcott and Nasri
Man U: Valencia/Giggs and Nani
Bayern Munich: Robben and Ribery
Spurs: Lennon and Bale
Man C: Adam Johnson and Milner
Chelsea during Mourinho's stint : Robben and Duff
[/quote]
None of Pedro, Initesta or Messi are really "wingers". Nasri is definitely not a winger. Milner is more of a player in the Dirk Kuyt mould.
[/quote]
spot on. I will give Modo Man Utd sometimes and Spurs (using an old left back), Ronaldo is hardly a winger these days either, he is a striker
[/quote]
In that case Barnes wasn't really a winger either.
[/quote]
ha ha he wasn't in the last few years of his career, he was too fat but was still out best passer so went in the middle
Love Jonny B so much
[quote author=Fox link=topic=45004.msg1317619#msg1317619 date=1303136303]
[quote author=GOD_23 link=topic=45004.msg1317558#msg1317558 date=1303130027]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=45004.msg1317522#msg1317522 date=1303125289]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=45004.msg1317508#msg1317508 date=1303124015]
Do you really need two tricky, dribbly pacy wingers in modern footy?
Say for example our RB is pacy and capable like Magic then is it so important from that side of the pitch. Dirk can improve his crossing of course but if we have an excellent LW then having Dirk as an almost 3rd striker goals tally wise out on the right is a massive advantage.
Not many top teams have two Digger Barnes/Macca type wingers out wide.
[/quote]
Barca: Pedro/Iniests and Messi
Madrid: Di MAria and Ronaldo
Arsenal: Walcott and Nasri
Man U: Valencia/Giggs and Nani
Bayern Munich: Robben and Ribery
Spurs: Lennon and Bale
Man C: Adam Johnson and Milner
Chelsea during Mourinho's stint : Robben and Duff
[/quote]
None of Pedro, Initesta or Messi are really "wingers". Nasri is definitely not a winger. Milner is more of a player in the Dirk Kuyt mould.
[/quote]
spot on. I will give Modo Man Utd sometimes and Spurs (using an old left back), Ronaldo is hardly a winger these days either, he is a striker
[/quote]
In that case Barnes wasn't really a winger either.
[/quote]
ha ha he wasn't in the last few years of his career, he was too fat but was still out best passer so went in the middle
Love Jonny B so much
[quote author=Fox link=topic=45004.msg1317833#msg1317833 date=1303195636]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=45004.msg1317758#msg1317758 date=1303162582]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=45004.msg1317619#msg1317619 date=1303136303]
[quote author=GOD_23 link=topic=45004.msg1317558#msg1317558 date=1303130027]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=45004.msg1317522#msg1317522 date=1303125289]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=45004.msg1317508#msg1317508 date=1303124015]
Do you really need two tricky, dribbly pacy wingers in modern footy?
Say for example our RB is pacy and capable like Magic then is it so important from that side of the pitch. Dirk can improve his crossing of course but if we have an excellent LW then having Dirk as an almost 3rd striker goals tally wise out on the right is a massive advantage.
Not many top teams have two Digger Barnes/Macca type wingers out wide.
[/quote]
Barca: Pedro/Iniests and Messi
Madrid: Di MAria and Ronaldo
Arsenal: Walcott and Nasri
Man U: Valencia/Giggs and Nani
Bayern Munich: Robben and Ribery
Spurs: Lennon and Bale
Man C: Adam Johnson and Milner
Chelsea during Mourinho's stint : Robben and Duff
[/quote]
None of Pedro, Initesta or Messi are really "wingers". Nasri is definitely not a winger. Milner is more of a player in the Dirk Kuyt mould.
[/quote]
spot on. I will give Modo Man Utd sometimes and Spurs (using an old left back), Ronaldo is hardly a winger these days either, he is a striker
[/quote]
In that case Barnes wasn't really a winger either.
[/quote]
ha ha he wasn't in the last few years of his career, he was too fat but was still out best passer so went in the middle
Love Jonny B so much
[/quote]
Couldnt agree more.
[quote author=Modo link=topic=45004.msg1317758#msg1317758 date=1303162582]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=45004.msg1317619#msg1317619 date=1303136303]
[quote author=GOD_23 link=topic=45004.msg1317558#msg1317558 date=1303130027]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=45004.msg1317522#msg1317522 date=1303125289]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=45004.msg1317508#msg1317508 date=1303124015]
Do you really need two tricky, dribbly pacy wingers in modern footy?
Say for example our RB is pacy and capable like Magic then is it so important from that side of the pitch. Dirk can improve his crossing of course but if we have an excellent LW then having Dirk as an almost 3rd striker goals tally wise out on the right is a massive advantage.
Not many top teams have two Digger Barnes/Macca type wingers out wide.
[/quote]
Barca: Pedro/Iniests and Messi
Madrid: Di MAria and Ronaldo
Arsenal: Walcott and Nasri
Man U: Valencia/Giggs and Nani
Bayern Munich: Robben and Ribery
Spurs: Lennon and Bale
Man C: Adam Johnson and Milner
Chelsea during Mourinho's stint : Robben and Duff
[/quote]
None of Pedro, Initesta or Messi are really "wingers". Nasri is definitely not a winger. Milner is more of a player in the Dirk Kuyt mould.
[/quote]
spot on. I will give Modo Man Utd sometimes and Spurs (using an old left back), Ronaldo is hardly a winger these days either, he is a striker
[/quote]
In that case Barnes wasn't really a winger either.
[/quote]
ha ha he wasn't in the last few years of his career, he was too fat but was still out best passer so went in the middle
Love Jonny B so much
[/quote]
Couldnt agree more.
[quote author=Fox link=topic=45004.msg1317508#msg1317508 date=1303124015]
Do you really need two tricky, dribbly pacy wingers in modern footy?
Say for example our RB is pacy and capable like Magic then is it so important from that side of the pitch. Dirk can improve his crossing of course but if we have an excellent LW then having Dirk as an almost 3rd striker goals tally wise out on the right is a massive advantage.
Not many top teams have two Digger Barnes/Macca type wingers out wide.
[/quote]
If you mean traditional touchline hugging wingers then no as the game has evolved a lot since the haydays of 4-4-2. It doesn't mean we don't need quality wide players though. Kuyt is an excellent option to have and I don't think anyone is suggesting we get rid of him but we do also need those tricky, dribbly, pacy wingers to have different options.
And even if Messi, Pedro, Ronaldo et al. can't really be classified as pure wingers so what? They are modern wide players, wide forwards if you like, which we see more and more these days and are still dribbly, pacy and tricky. Every top team has two or three good ones and by god we need some too.
Do you really need two tricky, dribbly pacy wingers in modern footy?
Say for example our RB is pacy and capable like Magic then is it so important from that side of the pitch. Dirk can improve his crossing of course but if we have an excellent LW then having Dirk as an almost 3rd striker goals tally wise out on the right is a massive advantage.
Not many top teams have two Digger Barnes/Macca type wingers out wide.
[/quote]
If you mean traditional touchline hugging wingers then no as the game has evolved a lot since the haydays of 4-4-2. It doesn't mean we don't need quality wide players though. Kuyt is an excellent option to have and I don't think anyone is suggesting we get rid of him but we do also need those tricky, dribbly, pacy wingers to have different options.
And even if Messi, Pedro, Ronaldo et al. can't really be classified as pure wingers so what? They are modern wide players, wide forwards if you like, which we see more and more these days and are still dribbly, pacy and tricky. Every top team has two or three good ones and by god we need some too.
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=45004.msg1317555#msg1317555 date=1303129631]
I like Kuyt, but he's not a RW in a 442, however well he played yesterday. It's amazing how everyone just forgets his countless crap games when he goes on a decent run of form.
We desperately need pace on both wings, whether as part of the starting XI or on the bench. We could have beaten Arsenal yesterday if our counterattacks hadn't mostly stuttered and died out due to our lack of pace.
[/quote]
totally agree, bunny.
we need better, pacier options on the flanks to stretch teams at home and hit team on the break away. if we land these players and kuyt still forces his way in the team hopefully it will mean he has raised his game to see these players off rather than these new players failing to impress, what's for certain is kuyt cannot be allowed to continue in the side when he is going through his slumps that happen almost like clockwork every season.
kuyt get his first share of goals and assists but I suspect if we have wide players that give the team more balance, more options, stretch teams more, create more chances (be they direct assists or runs that create openings) the team will secure more points. at the end of the day points matter more to me than kuyt's end of season goal tally.
does any wide player in the top 5 have more goals than kuyt, I doubt it but all the top 5 have scored more away goals than we have (we have the worst goal tally away from home - 17) and I suspect that is because they (the top 5) are better equipped than we are for the counter attack.
I like Kuyt, but he's not a RW in a 442, however well he played yesterday. It's amazing how everyone just forgets his countless crap games when he goes on a decent run of form.
We desperately need pace on both wings, whether as part of the starting XI or on the bench. We could have beaten Arsenal yesterday if our counterattacks hadn't mostly stuttered and died out due to our lack of pace.
[/quote]
totally agree, bunny.
we need better, pacier options on the flanks to stretch teams at home and hit team on the break away. if we land these players and kuyt still forces his way in the team hopefully it will mean he has raised his game to see these players off rather than these new players failing to impress, what's for certain is kuyt cannot be allowed to continue in the side when he is going through his slumps that happen almost like clockwork every season.
kuyt get his first share of goals and assists but I suspect if we have wide players that give the team more balance, more options, stretch teams more, create more chances (be they direct assists or runs that create openings) the team will secure more points. at the end of the day points matter more to me than kuyt's end of season goal tally.
does any wide player in the top 5 have more goals than kuyt, I doubt it but all the top 5 have scored more away goals than we have (we have the worst goal tally away from home - 17) and I suspect that is because they (the top 5) are better equipped than we are for the counter attack.
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=45004.msg1317802#msg1317802 date=1303173804]
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=45004.msg1317778#msg1317778 date=1303167567]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=45004.msg1317555#msg1317555 date=1303129631]
I like Kuyt, but he's not a RW in a 442, however well he played yesterday. It's amazing how everyone just forgets his countless crap games when he goes on a decent run of form.
We desperately need pace on both wings, whether as part of the starting XI or on the bench. We could have beaten Arsenal yesterday if our counterattacks hadn't mostly stuttered and died out due to our lack of pace.
[/quote]
Thank you for bringing a bit of reality to the table Bunster
regards
[/quote]
Pffft, you're one to talk about "reality".
According to you, Dirk is an "extremely limited footballer". Where's the reality in that?
He did alright in a 4-4-2 last week against City if memory serves me right. MOTM wasn't he?
[/quote]
But you said yourself that game "was an orgy of formations". Kuyt was rarely deployed during that game as a true 442 right winger, what with his consistent ability to not be near the touchline must of the game
[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=45004.msg1317778#msg1317778 date=1303167567]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=45004.msg1317555#msg1317555 date=1303129631]
I like Kuyt, but he's not a RW in a 442, however well he played yesterday. It's amazing how everyone just forgets his countless crap games when he goes on a decent run of form.
We desperately need pace on both wings, whether as part of the starting XI or on the bench. We could have beaten Arsenal yesterday if our counterattacks hadn't mostly stuttered and died out due to our lack of pace.
[/quote]
Thank you for bringing a bit of reality to the table Bunster
regards
[/quote]
Pffft, you're one to talk about "reality".
According to you, Dirk is an "extremely limited footballer". Where's the reality in that?
He did alright in a 4-4-2 last week against City if memory serves me right. MOTM wasn't he?
[/quote]
But you said yourself that game "was an orgy of formations". Kuyt was rarely deployed during that game as a true 442 right winger, what with his consistent ability to not be near the touchline must of the game
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=45004.msg1317848#msg1317848 date=1303198850]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=45004.msg1317555#msg1317555 date=1303129631]
I like Kuyt, but he's not a RW in a 442, however well he played yesterday. It's amazing how everyone just forgets his countless crap games when he goes on a decent run of form.
We desperately need pace on both wings, whether as part of the starting XI or on the bench. We could have beaten Arsenal yesterday if our counterattacks hadn't mostly stuttered and died out due to our lack of pace.
[/quote]
totally agree, bunny.
we need better, pacier options on the flanks to stretch teams at home and hit team on the break away. if we land these players and kuyt still forces his way in the team hopefully it will mean he has raised his game to see these players off rather than these new players failing to impress, what's for certain is kuyt cannot be allowed to continue in the side when he is going through his slumps that happen almost like clockwork every season.
kuyt get his first share of goals and assists but I suspect if we have wide players that give the team more balance, more options, stretch teams more, create more chances (be they direct assists or runs that create openings) the team will secure more points. at the end of the day points matter more to me than kuyt's end of season goal tally.
does any wide player in the top 5 have more goals than kuyt, I doubt it but all the top 5 have scored more away goals than we have (we have the worst goal tally away from home - 17) and I suspect that is because they (the top 5) are better equipped than we are for the counter attack.
[/quote]
All wingers, infact, all players go through slumps, unless we remarkably pick up someone as good as Messi or Ronaldo, then this is just dreamland stuff. "Hopefully it will mean Kuyt has raised his game", from what? He's probably amongst the biggest deliverers most seasons from his versatile attacking role, he's always up there in terms of goals AND assists. We'd be hard pushed to find someone who will give us more. A pacy option is a must, because the team lacks it, not because Kuyt lacks it.
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=45004.msg1317555#msg1317555 date=1303129631]
I like Kuyt, but he's not a RW in a 442, however well he played yesterday. It's amazing how everyone just forgets his countless crap games when he goes on a decent run of form.
We desperately need pace on both wings, whether as part of the starting XI or on the bench. We could have beaten Arsenal yesterday if our counterattacks hadn't mostly stuttered and died out due to our lack of pace.
[/quote]
totally agree, bunny.
we need better, pacier options on the flanks to stretch teams at home and hit team on the break away. if we land these players and kuyt still forces his way in the team hopefully it will mean he has raised his game to see these players off rather than these new players failing to impress, what's for certain is kuyt cannot be allowed to continue in the side when he is going through his slumps that happen almost like clockwork every season.
kuyt get his first share of goals and assists but I suspect if we have wide players that give the team more balance, more options, stretch teams more, create more chances (be they direct assists or runs that create openings) the team will secure more points. at the end of the day points matter more to me than kuyt's end of season goal tally.
does any wide player in the top 5 have more goals than kuyt, I doubt it but all the top 5 have scored more away goals than we have (we have the worst goal tally away from home - 17) and I suspect that is because they (the top 5) are better equipped than we are for the counter attack.
[/quote]
All wingers, infact, all players go through slumps, unless we remarkably pick up someone as good as Messi or Ronaldo, then this is just dreamland stuff. "Hopefully it will mean Kuyt has raised his game", from what? He's probably amongst the biggest deliverers most seasons from his versatile attacking role, he's always up there in terms of goals AND assists. We'd be hard pushed to find someone who will give us more. A pacy option is a must, because the team lacks it, not because Kuyt lacks it.
I think the problem is (and for years has been) that we havnt had the depth of squad to 'rest' Deadly.
No one should be a cert starter and its hardly his fault he has been.
However heres a prediction for you. Next season if we get competition for Dirk, within a couple of months most of the naysayers will want Dirk back in the team.
That said 9 times out of 10 he sucks at 4-4-2 and if we are playing that i would play him up front.
No one should be a cert starter and its hardly his fault he has been.
However heres a prediction for you. Next season if we get competition for Dirk, within a couple of months most of the naysayers will want Dirk back in the team.
That said 9 times out of 10 he sucks at 4-4-2 and if we are playing that i would play him up front.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=45004.msg1317881#msg1317881 date=1303202839]
I think the problem is (and for years has been) that we havnt had the depth of squad to 'rest' Deadly.
No one should be a cert starter and its hardly his fault he has been.
However heres a prediction for you. Next season if we get competition for Dirk, within a couple of months most of the naysayers will want Dirk back in the team.
That said 9 times out of 10 he sucks at 4-4-2 and if we are playing that i would play him up front.
[/quote]
Another prediction: Next season if we get competition for Dirk, he'll still start a lot of games and play some part in nearly all of them.
I think the problem is (and for years has been) that we havnt had the depth of squad to 'rest' Deadly.
No one should be a cert starter and its hardly his fault he has been.
However heres a prediction for you. Next season if we get competition for Dirk, within a couple of months most of the naysayers will want Dirk back in the team.
That said 9 times out of 10 he sucks at 4-4-2 and if we are playing that i would play him up front.
[/quote]
Another prediction: Next season if we get competition for Dirk, he'll still start a lot of games and play some part in nearly all of them.
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=45004.msg1317883#msg1317883 date=1303203176]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=45004.msg1317881#msg1317881 date=1303202839]
I think the problem is (and for years has been) that we havnt had the depth of squad to 'rest' Deadly.
No one should be a cert starter and its hardly his fault he has been.
However heres a prediction for you. Next season if we get competition for Dirk, within a couple of months most of the naysayers will want Dirk back in the team.
That said 9 times out of 10 he sucks at 4-4-2 and if we are playing that i would play him up front.
[/quote]
Another prediction: Next season if we get competition for Dirk, he'll still start a lot of games and play some part in nearly all of them.
[/quote]*chest bump*
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=45004.msg1317881#msg1317881 date=1303202839]
I think the problem is (and for years has been) that we havnt had the depth of squad to 'rest' Deadly.
No one should be a cert starter and its hardly his fault he has been.
However heres a prediction for you. Next season if we get competition for Dirk, within a couple of months most of the naysayers will want Dirk back in the team.
That said 9 times out of 10 he sucks at 4-4-2 and if we are playing that i would play him up front.
[/quote]
Another prediction: Next season if we get competition for Dirk, he'll still start a lot of games and play some part in nearly all of them.
[/quote]*chest bump*
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