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The Death Spiral

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rebel23

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I believe LFC has entered a Death Spiral and there's only one way to stop it.

It won't matter who the manager is, whether it's Hodgson, Coyle or some other flavour of the month.

There are much deeper problems in that dressing room and I believe it could even get a lot worse if the board appointed a manager without the obvious experience of managing a top club, without knowing the pressures and without the backing to deal with a potentially divided dressing room we could very well find ourselves in the same position in 12 months time but rooted to the foot of the league table - that is if we're still in the Premier League as we could still conceivably be relegated this season though unlikely as it may seem - and with our best players wanting out in the summer who's to say it's not a possibility?

The only way to stop the Death Spiral is to exorcise our demons and appoint the one man who knows that dressing room, the one man who has the experience, knowledge, gravitas, assurance, personality and steady hand that we seek: Rafa Benitez.

Not only is Benitez eminently qualified as one of the top coach's in his field but he can also settle back into the job very quickly as he has a home on Merseyside. He knows the dressing room better than anyone and can diagnose the problems but will require the backing to put it right. It would be interesting to see Benitez working under this new structure that the owners have imposed if he's willing to do so.

There really isnt anyone else more qualified than Benitez, with his Premier League experience, racking up 80 odd points in 2 seasons and bar one season what would be regarded as a very decent record with regards to points average.

If you want to know what you're getting then Rafa is your man. I happen to believe LFC isn't a playground for the next flavour of the month, an inexperienced coach or the media's new darling, I believe in tried and tested and whatever you think of Benitez he definitely has the experience and the qualifications for the role. More so than anyone else.

Thou hath fulfilled the judgment of the wicked.
 
Why re hire a man who created such a divide amongst fans. Also what would happen if he fell out with the current owners? Finally how would he work under a DOF? Rafa coming back isnt the answer. We need to move on and move forward.
 
Any thoughtful replies or are you lot happy watching the Death Spiral? I for one am sick of it and would love to go back to just competing for CL places, something the tried and tested Benitez will have us doing
 
He WAS great. Then something happened to him. He became shite.
His team selection, player purchases, tactics, etc were a joke in his final year.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=43487.msg1245919#msg1245919 date=1294432605]
Why re hire a man who created such a divide amongst fans. Also what would happen if he fell out with the current owners? Finally how would he work under a DOF? Rafa coming back isnt the answer. We need to move on and move forward.
[/quote]

How do you know that in the course of events moving forward means our board appointed someone inexperienced that we do worse than we're doing now and we're essentially back to square one?

Sometimes it's better the devil you know and Benitez is tried and tested and I would trust him to get us back where we belong.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=43487.msg1245919#msg1245919 date=1294432605]
Why re hire a man who created such a divide amongst fans. Also what would happen if he fell out with the current owners? Finally how would he work under a DOF? Rafa coming back isnt the answer. We need to move on and move forward.
[/quote]

He wouldn't work under a DOF for more than about the first ten seconds. Then we'd be back to civil war within the club.

Rafa is a zillion times the manager Roy will ever be, but fetching him back now would be pouring petrol on the flames.
 
Yeah boi !

I picked a good night to get cunarted !!!

*throws doo doo at school children*.
 
Whilst I certainly don't buy the line that Hodgson is paying the price for Rafa's mistakes I would say we had entered a negative 'spiral' under his stewardship. He 's not the answer, much as I think he's a top manager.
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=43487.msg1245911#msg1245911 date=1294432341]
I believe LFC has entered a Death Spiral and there's only one way to stop it.

It won't matter who the manager is, whether it's Hodgson, Coyle or some other flavour of the month.

There are much deeper problems in that dressing room and I believe it could even get a lot worse if the board appointed a manager without the obvious experience of managing a top club, without knowing the pressures and without the backing to deal with a potentially divided dressing room we could very well find ourselves in the same position in 12 months time but rooted to the foot of the league table - that is if we're still in the Premier League as we could still conceivably be relegated this season though unlikely as it may seem - and with our best players wanting out in the summer who's to say it's not a possibility?

The only way to stop the Death Spiral is to exorcise our demons and appoint the one man who knows that dressing room, the one man who has the experience, knowledge, gravitas, assurance, personality and steady hand that we seek: Rafa Benitez.

Not only is Benitez eminently qualified as one of the top coach's in his field but he can also settle back into the job very quickly as he has a home on Merseyside. He knows the dressing room better than anyone and can diagnose the problems but will require the backing to put it right. It would be interesting to see Benitez working under this new structure that the owners have imposed if he's willing to do so.

There really isnt anyone else more qualified than Benitez, with his Premier League experience, racking up 80 odd points in 2 seasons and bar one season what would be regarded as a very decent record with regards to points average.

If you want to know what you're getting then Rafa is your man. I happen to believe LFC isn't a playground for the next flavour of the month, an inexperienced coach or the media's new darling, I believe in tried and tested and whatever you think of Benitez he definitely has the experience and the qualifications for the role. More so than anyone else.

Thou hath fulfilled the judgment of the wicked.
[/quote]

However much i knew in my heart that people wanting Rafa gone were being fucking ludicrous i didn't for a slpit second want them to be proved so completely short sighted. Rafa fucked it up and got sacked. end of. bad decision but its been made and their will be no going back, he needs to learn to keep his mouth shut he didnt do it at Valencia he didnt do it with us nor at Inter. A SHITLOAD better than hodgson but we will not nor should not go back, stick Kenny in as caretaker and see who is available in Summer, clean slate etc etc...
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=43487.msg1245923#msg1245923 date=1294432763]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=43487.msg1245919#msg1245919 date=1294432605]
Why re hire a man who created such a divide amongst fans. Also what would happen if he fell out with the current owners? Finally how would he work under a DOF? Rafa coming back isnt the answer. We need to move on and move forward.
[/quote]

He wouldn't work under a DOF for more than about the first ten seconds. Then we'd be back to civil war within the club.

Rafa is a zillion times the manager Roy will ever be, but fetching him back now would be pouring petrol on the flames.
[/quote]

How do you know what Rafa's willing to do or not?

Have you spoken to him?

It sounds like you're willing to hand the keys over to someone inexperienced, considering Hodgson is so out of his depth his 35 years of coaching (which he never fails to remind us of) how on earth can you be confident of anyone other than someone with the qualifications and experience that Benitez has? I couldn't and I fear the worst.
 
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=43487.msg1245928#msg1245928 date=1294432936]

However much i knew in my heart that people wanting Rafa gone were being fucking ludicrous i didn't for a slpit second want them to be proved so completely short sighted. Rafa fucked it up and got sacked. end of. bad decision but its been made and their will be no going back, he needs to learn to keep his mouth shut he didnt do it at Valencia he didnt do it with us nor at Inter. A SHITLOAD better than hodgson but we will not nor should not go back, stick Kenny in as caretaker and see who is available in Summer, clean slate etc etc...
[/quote]

This is another fallacy.

He didn't "need" to be sacked. On the contrary:

1) A divided board
2) A skint football club
3) A snake as CEO
4) Very few better qualified candidates than the incumbent

The default position on a careful examination of all the available and publicly known information should have been: NO CHANGE and public statement backing the incumbent.

But oh no, we couldn't have that could we. The media and the incessant withhunt had to get their result and the snake and chairman duly obliged.
 
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=43487.msg1245930#msg1245930 date=1294433112]
Just drop it rebel.... its done.... finished.


[/quote]

LFC could be finished soon. I won't drop it.
 
Rebel makes a few valid points.

I would give Rafa the job 'til the end of the season.

I think with his affinity for stats and the DOF bringing in new players he would do well with FSG.

He may have lost the plot in his last season but the players know his methods and time is an issue.

I would love to hear Kenny's thoughts on the issue.
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=43487.msg1245929#msg1245929 date=1294432937]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=43487.msg1245923#msg1245923 date=1294432763]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=43487.msg1245919#msg1245919 date=1294432605]
Why re hire a man who created such a divide amongst fans. Also what would happen if he fell out with the current owners? Finally how would he work under a DOF? Rafa coming back isnt the answer. We need to move on and move forward.
[/quote]

He wouldn't work under a DOF for more than about the first ten seconds. Then we'd be back to civil war within the club.

Rafa is a zillion times the manager Roy will ever be, but fetching him back now would be pouring petrol on the flames.
[/quote]

How do you know what Rafa's willing to do or not?

Have you spoken to him?

It sounds like you're willing to hand the keys over to someone inexperienced, considering Hodgson is so out of his depth his 35 years of coaching (which he never fails to remind us of) how on earth can you be confident of anyone other than someone with the qualifications and experience that Benitez has? I couldn't and I fear the worst.

[/quote]

Because Rafa wants total control. Lack of it drove him out of Valencia and caused him to fight a guerrilla campaign for years to get it at LFC. There is no way on this planet that he'd accept having Comolli over him.

FWIW I'm not convinced by the argument for a young manager either, and would prefer someone with more experience. What I am convinced by is the argument that Rafa would be an extremely bad fit with the new management regime and is absolutely not the answer.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=43487.msg1245934#msg1245934 date=1294433427]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=43487.msg1245929#msg1245929 date=1294432937]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=43487.msg1245923#msg1245923 date=1294432763]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=43487.msg1245919#msg1245919 date=1294432605]
Why re hire a man who created such a divide amongst fans. Also what would happen if he fell out with the current owners? Finally how would he work under a DOF? Rafa coming back isnt the answer. We need to move on and move forward.
[/quote]

He wouldn't work under a DOF for more than about the first ten seconds. Then we'd be back to civil war within the club.

Rafa is a zillion times the manager Roy will ever be, but fetching him back now would be pouring petrol on the flames.
[/quote]

How do you know what Rafa's willing to do or not?

Have you spoken to him?

It sounds like you're willing to hand the keys over to someone inexperienced, considering Hodgson is so out of his depth his 35 years of coaching (which he never fails to remind us of) how on earth can you be confident of anyone other than someone with the qualifications and experience that Benitez has? I couldn't and I fear the worst.

[/quote]

Because Rafa wants total control. Lack of it drove him out of Valencia and caused him to fight a guerrilla campaign for years to get it at LFC. There is no way on this planet that he'd accept having Comolli over him.

FWIW I'm not convinced by the argument for a young manager either, and would prefer someone with more experience. What I am convinced by is the argument that Rafa would be an extremely bad fit with the new management regime and is absolutely not the answer.

[/quote]

You can't make such a statement without speaking to Benitez and asking him if he's willing to do it.

If he's not then I will concede the point but until then it's a very live discussion.
 
Those in charge at Valencia and LFC will have had just such discussions with him before they signed him up. Actions speak louder than words.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=43487.msg1245936#msg1245936 date=1294433687]
Those in charge at Valencia and LFC will have had just such discussions with him before they signed him up. Actions speak louder than words.
[/quote]

And at Valencia he accepted a DOF, won 2 titles. At inter as recently as 6 months ago he accepted to work under a DOF.

it is hardly an unprecedented thing for Benitez to accept given he has accepted it previously in many roles and in different countries.

he only wanted "total control" in that contract because of how dysfunctional the club was being run. He may not need or seek that level of control under the new regime and he may prosper under it.

You just dont know until you speak to him and if's at all interested in coming back and hearing his idea's something I very much hope the new board will do and I hope Benitez applies for the post.

Plenty of if's and buts but you can't be definitive about what conditions Benitez is willing to work under.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=43487.msg1245936#msg1245936 date=1294433687]
Those in charge at Valencia and LFC will have had just such discussions with him before they signed him up. Actions speak louder than words.
[/quote].

There really isn't any point the guys a fucktard! Who's basis of a valid argument will be you haven't spoke to Benitez.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=43487.msg1245923#msg1245923 date=1294432763]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=43487.msg1245919#msg1245919 date=1294432605]
Why re hire a man who created such a divide amongst fans. Also what would happen if he fell out with the current owners? Finally how would he work under a DOF? Rafa coming back isnt the answer. We need to move on and move forward.
[/quote]

He wouldn't work under a DOF for more than about the first ten seconds. Then we'd be back to civil war within the club.

Rafa is a zillion times the manager Roy will ever be, but fetching him back now would be pouring petrol on the flames.
[/quote]

He's right when he says we are in a downward spiral though.

We need a change.

Rafa is too devisive a figure, we need unity.

The only trusted candidate is Kenny Dalglish.

NESV/FSG need to just do it.

Leave worldwide searches for the next up and comer to the off season when the pressures off.
 
Largely agree, but IMO they need to get weaving on the search right now and make the appointment next summer, rather than start the search then.
 
It has occurred to me that we're in a death spiral (nice image), and that changing the manager won't help us get out of it.

The leap from there to reappointing the man who helped initiate the death sprial, however, was too great for me to make.
 
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