The curious case of the RB who thought he was a CM

[rubans]

James has been injured this season so yes Trent might have been better.

Regarding Doku, he got a few dangerous crosses in. Isn't that what we're always complaining about when the opposition scores. Like "why didn't Robbo close him down?"
But just because they didn't score doesn't make it ok.

Actually thought he didn’t get any crosses is in that were of quality. He did beat him but nothing at the end. James’s fitness has been better but he hasn’t been very good either attacking or defending. Let me see if there are any decent stats to compare…

 

[Hansern]

Someone posted all the involvements between Doku avd Trent and Twitter. Fair to say it was even less in it then what I first asumed.

Regarding that Trent was nowhere to be found. He’s in the positions he’d being asked by Klopp to be in.
Its been working pretty good so far.

 

[rubans]

Here's just the defensive actions focussed, against James, Trippier and Hakimi:
Defensive Actions

• Glossary​
• Toggle Per90 Stats​

[xtable]
{colgroup}
{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}{col}{/col}
{/colgroup}
{thead}
{tr}
{th=colspan:5} {/th}
{th} {/th}
{th=colspan:5}Tackles{/th}
{th=colspan:4}Challenges{/th}
{th=colspan:3}Blocks{/th}
{th=colspan:4} {/th}
{/tr}
{tr}
{th=scope:col}Player{/th}
{th=scope:col}Span{/th}
{th=scope:col|middle|bcolor:#eeeeee|nowrap|center}Nation{/th}
{th=scope:col|middle|bcolor:#eeeeee|nowrap|center}Pos{/th}
{th=scope:col}Squad{/th}
{th=scope:col|middle|bcolor:#eeeeee|nowrap|center}90s{/th}
{th=scope:col|middle|bcolor:#eeeeee|nowrap|center}Tkl{/th}
{th=scope:col|middle|bcolor:#eeeeee|nowrap|center}TklW{/th}
{th=scope:col|middle|bcolor:#eeeeee|nowrap|center}Def 3rd{/th}
{th=scope:col|middle|bcolor:#eeeeee|nowrap|center}Mid 3rd{/th}
{th=scope:col|middle|bcolor:#eeeeee|nowrap|center}Att 3rd{/th}
{th=scope:col|middle|bcolor:#eeeeee|nowrap|center}Tkl{/th}
{th=scope:col|middle|bcolor:#eeeeee|nowrap|center}Att{/th}
{th=scope:col|middle|bcolor:#eeeeee|nowrap|center}Tkl%{/th}
{th=scope:col|middle|bcolor:#eeeeee|nowrap|center}Lost{/th}
{th=scope:col}Blocks{/th}
{th=scope:col|middle|bcolor:#eeeeee|nowrap|center}Sh{/th}
{th=scope:col|middle|bcolor:#eeeeee|nowrap|center}Pass{/th}
{th=scope:col|middle|bcolor:#eeeeee|nowrap|center}Int{/th}
{th=scope:col}Tkl+Int{/th}
{th=scope:col|middle|bcolor:#eeeeee|nowrap|center}Clr{/th}
{th=scope:col|middle|bcolor:#eeeeee|nowrap|center}Err{/th}
{/tr}
{/thead}
{tbody}
{tr}
{th=scope:row}Trent Alexander-Arnold{/th}
{td}2023-24{/td}
{td}eng ENG{/td}
{td}DF{/td}
{td}Liverpool{/td}
{td}9.6{/td}
{td}15{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{td}5{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{td}32{/td}
{td}31.3{/td}
{td}22{/td}
{td}4{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}4{/td}
{td}11{/td}
{td}26{/td}
{td}21{/td}
{td}3{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{th=scope:row}Reece James{/th}
{td}2023-24{/td}
{td}eng ENG{/td}
{td}DF{/td}
{td}Chelsea{/td}
{td}3.5{/td}
{td}12{/td}
{td}8{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}7{/td}
{td}9{/td}
{td}77.8{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}14{/td}
{td}6{/td}
{td}0{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{th=scope:row}Kieran Trippier{/th}
{td}2023-24{/td}
{td}eng ENG{/td}
{td}DF{/td}
{td}Newcastle Utd{/td}
{td}12.5{/td}
{td}20{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{td}7{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{td}3{/td}
{td}15{/td}
{td}33{/td}
{td}45.5{/td}
{td}18{/td}
{td}20{/td}
{td}6{/td}
{td}14{/td}
{td}8{/td}
{td}28{/td}
{td}17{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{th=scope:row}Kyle Walker{/th}
{td}2023-24{/td}
{td}eng ENG{/td}
{td}DF{/td}
{td}Manchester City{/td}
{td}13.0{/td}
{td}15{/td}
{td}8{/td}
{td}6{/td}
{td}8{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{td}7{/td}
{td}14{/td}
{td}50.0{/td}
{td}7{/td}
{td}9{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}7{/td}
{td}9{/td}
{td}24{/td}
{td}17{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{th=scope:row}Achraf Hakimi{/th}
{td}2023-24{/td}
{td}ma MAR{/td}
{td}DF{/td}
{td}Paris S-G{/td}
{td}10.8{/td}
{td}15{/td}
{td}8{/td}
{td}6{/td}
{td}5{/td}
{td}4{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{td}21{/td}
{td}47.6{/td}
{td}11{/td}
{td}17{/td}
{td}2{/td}
{td}15{/td}
{td}10{/td}
{td}25{/td}
{td}11{/td}
{td}1{/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]

• Not sure about including Hakimi here as the French League isn't same level as the PL.
• Trippier is having a fantastic season so far and is the stand out Newcastle player and top performing RB (even attacking wise in the league)

 

[moron]

Tripper has been in England’s right back for every tournament since Russia, how many have they won?
It’s not down to Trippier but England need to braver to make this golden gen count.

yes they do - and there any national manger will pick Walker over TAA based on Walker's pace and cancelling out the pace of some the worlds best wingers. The areas where Southgate can experiment on to make England better would be the wingers and midfielders. I don't think TAA is the answer to England's problems, and as a midfielder you can argue he is learning on the job.

 

[rubans]

yes they do - and there any national manger will pick Walker over TAA based on Walker's pace and cancelling out the pace of some the worlds best wingers. The areas where Southgate can experiment on to make England better would be the wingers and midfielders. I don't think TAA is the answer to England's problems, and as a midfielder you can argue he is learning on the job.

Walker has played as a 3 on the right side to protect RWB. It’s not like for like but regardless…
I bet there are loads of international managers whom would, Trent has played against some of the best wingers and has been fine. I wouldn’t get fixated on any particular player but his lack of concentration and what he is told to by Klopp. Just how many games has Southgate played Trent as RB? Yet he plays Harey Maguire game after game despite him sitting on the bench at club level. I don’t think Southgate is the standard for international managers.

 

[Hansern]

I'd say that if Walker didnt have that insane pace he would be a pretty average defender.

 

[moron]

Walker has played as a 3 on the right side to protect RWB. It’s not like for like but regardless…
I bet there are loads of international managers whom would, Trent has played against some of the best wingers and has been fine. I wouldn’t get fixated on any particular player but his lack of concentration and what he is told to by Klopp. Just how many games has Southgate played Trent as RB? Yet he plays Harey Maguire game after game despite him sitting on the bench at club level. I don’t think Southgate is the standard for international managers.

From the various social media spaces, I think it's recognized that Harry Maguire for some odd reason plays better for England and consistently than what he does for club level, he hardly makes any serious mistakes. That's why Gareth picks him all the time, and the same can be said of Walker, as a back-line they are very good and consistent.

 

[binomial]

It isn’t really odd at all that some players play better for country then they do for club including someone like Maguire who does make mistakes (look at the laughable penalty he should’ve given away against Macedonia or the OG he gave away against Scotland in the 3-1). Firstly teams have a higher incentive to attack Utd because of their obvious vulnerabilities….90% of the opposition England come up against are utter fodder and already beaten before they step out onto the pitch, they’re scared to attack England.

 

[Mystic]

I'd say that if Walker didnt have that insane pace he would be a pretty average defender.

But I mean he does, at the age of 33.

 

[KopRed]

I thought Trent was very good against City, and has been much improved this season. I thought his hybrid role hadn't been put to test so far, but he and us, got through City (A) with flying colours. We were also very balanced and solid throughout (barred individual errors).

He would not have scored the goal he did playing as a conventional RB.

 

[binomial]

I thought Trent was very good against City, and has been much improved this season. I thought his hybrid role hadn't been put to test so far, but he got through City (A) with flying colours.

He would not have scored the goal he did playing as a conventional RB.

He was very good in the sense that our CB's did incredibly well to defend and clear away any danger from Doku's final crosses after he breezed past Trent multiple times so we weren't directly punished for that and very good in the sense that he took his goal exquisitely.

He also didn't cover himself in glory for the goal....it's the same old lazy dangle of the leg in the hope he can poke the ball away.

 

[Hansern]

But I mean he does, at the age of 33.

Yes, he does. Its his main trait and quality as a defender.

 

[KopRed]

He was very good in the sense that our CB's did incredibly well to defend and clear away any danger from Doku's final crosses after he breezed past Trent multiple times so we weren't directly punished for that and very good in the sense that he took his goal exquisitely.

He also didn't cover himself in glory for the goal....it's the same old lazy dangle of the leg in the hope he can poke the ball away.

I think we have to accept the fact that Trent is our best RB, and his playing the hybrid role is better than him playing as a conventional RB.

We will also need to accept that Trent might never be a good defender 1v1. The fact that our CBs are accustomed to covering for Trent, and he provides a much bigger threat up top, can be consider a win for us.

We can discuss all we want about what he is and what he is not, but unless we happened to chance upon a Cafu 2.0 in our next purchase of a player, I don't see what's the alternative.

 

[keniget]

We can discuss all we want about what he is and what he is not, but unless we happened to chance upon a Cafu 2.0 in our next purchase of a player, I don't see what's the alternative.

There is no alternative. It's a futile conversation because we've basically had no RB cover for years now and have just signed 400 midfielders... that coupled with Klopp's recent comments make it fairly clear that there is zero chance of him moving to midfield any time soon (if ever).

 

[Hansern]

Seeing as it didnt happen when we needed a midfield a rebuild, then its pretty safe to say its not happening anytime soon.

 

[moron]

Trippier isn’t a better defender than Trent though and nowhere near as good going forward.

It has to be Walker as England’s mediocre centre backs need all the help they can get.

Cannot remember which tournament it was but Trippier was excellent in the world cup in Russia, and at club level he rightly is one of the best RB's in the country at the moment, and consistent level of performance. I don't know what game you watch. By the way - just to be clear I regard TAA as best for Liverpool and one of our best players, but that does not have to translate that he would be best for the national team as well.

 

[binomial]

Trippier isn’t a better defender than Trent though and nowhere near as good going forward.

It has to be Walker as England’s mediocre centre backs need all the help they can get.

Hate to break it to you but Trippier is a far better defender than Trent, saying otherwise is out of pure biasness. The only player that comes close to Trent going forward from RB is Hakimi.

Walker plays more in a back 3 these days and England also play with a back 3 later in competitions against teams that actually decide to attack them.

 

[rubans]

Hate to break it to you but Trippier is a far better defender than Trent, saying otherwise is out of pure biasness. The only player that comes close to Trent going forward from RB is Hakimi.

Walker plays more in a back 3 these days and England also play with a back 3 later in competitions against teams that actually decide to attack them.

Also due to lack of pace at the back.
Teams normally play 3 to compensate for speed. But it’s even weird they haven’t tried Trent more RWB with Walker there as he would be able to attack even more. This is purely down to Southgate rather than anything else.

 

[doctor_mac]

What did Doku create bar the pass to Alvarez that warrants any other mention of a big chance though? Getting dribbled past in isolation means nothing in all honesty or Adama Traore would be the best winger in the World.
Trent was left isolated in the first half and we were more compact in the second. All in all, Trent had a good game against Doku given the result and what Doku created from the wing.
You could argue that Doku, when on form, is one of the better players around with dribbling skills and pace.

Could he have done better? Absolutely, but its nonsense to say that he struggled all through the game imho.

I was thinking all game that Doku reminds me of Adama, but was pushing it to the back of my mind in case the Football gods punished me.

 

[rurikbird]

 

[rubans]

I was thinking all game that Doku reminds me of Adama, but was pushing it to the back of my mind in case the Football gods punished me.

One of the pod casters, Barry Glendenning said the same. Jury is out on productivity but he has loads of time to get better but not easy at City to get that…

 

[rubans]

Great stats.
Pity about, distance covered though. 8th laziest on the team compared to the rest…

 

[tombrown]

I didn't see the match as I was driving - tried to listen on the radio, but my passenger didn't get the hint and just chatted non stop all the way through.

From what I read on here I assumed Trent must have had a shocker, apart from the goal.
Watched the highlights & thought he was sound, but then highlights don't always give the right answer.
But then every pundit, website, podcast etc have been singing his praises.

What is it with the warped reality that is SCM and the gutter regions of Twitter?

 

[Whaddapie]

I didn't see the match as I was driving - tried to listen on the radio, but my passenger didn't get the hint and just chatted non stop all the way through.

From what I read on hear I assumed Trent must have had a shocker, apart from the goal.
Watched the highlights & thought he was sound, but then highlights don't always give the right answer.
But then every pundit, website, podcast etc have been singing his praises.

What is it with the warped reality that is SCM and the gutter regions of Twitter?

Not sure that too many thought he had a shocker (I thought that he did ok, no better or worse, until the goal), but this game did perfectly sum up exactly what many of us have been saying for years: Very poor effort at the back for their goal, cancelled out by a glorious strike for the equalizer. That's him, in a nutshell. I don't understand what's so treasonous about acknowledging it.

 

[darkstarexodus]

I thought he was excellent on Saturday, with the exception of their goal.

 

[LMG]

I thought he was excellent on Saturday, with the exception of their goal.

Me too. Proper heroes and villains on here at the moment

 

[Dreambeliever]

Shocked people thought he played tbh outside of the goal, which was sublime.
He did win a handful of challenges but overall Doku had him on toast and only for a combination of poor finishing from his teammates and Alison heroics the headlines would have been about him ripping us a new one.

 

[rubans]

Shocked people thought he played tbh outside of the goal, which was sublime.
He did win a handful of challenges but overall Doku had him on toast and only for a combination of poor finishing from his teammates and Alison heroics the headlines would have been about him ripping us a new one.

Alison heroics?
According to stats he saved 2 shots from inside the box, one was directly from his own mistake and another one where Doku danced past Matip (note: not Trent for once) and managed to for once find his team mate, Haaland whom shot was saved for our break way for Trent to score.

 

[darkstarexodus]

Shocked people thought he played tbh outside of the goal, which was sublime.
He did win a handful of challenges but overall Doku had him on toast and only for a combination of poor finishing from his teammates and Alison heroics the headlines would have been about him ripping us a new one.

He contained Doku quite well. Don't mistake all the feints and dodges for actually creating anything.

 

[KopRed]

Surely we can't blame Ake's run entirely on Trent...

Yes he could have done better, but it happens to the best of them. Everyone will lose a challenge or two now and then especially in an area as vast as the midfield. Our own Matip regularly glides through opposition midfields, a midfield consisting of City's Rodri included.

That goal was a team mistake. Half the team could have done better to prevent it. That is all there is to it.