THE ASHES... 2009

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33622.msg874310#msg874310 date=1243204021]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872713#msg872713 date=1243001692]
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=33622.msg872707#msg872707 date=1243000568]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872634#msg872634 date=1242992298]
England & Wales will win IMO.

The Aussies have lost far too many of there greats recently + Not enough of them have the required experience of playing in English conditions.



[/quote]

That's the whole point. It's not about experience, it's about the sheer balls to go out and win. WQarne and Gilchrist had the right idea, they left on a high. Hayden wen on too long. The key thing here was that in going on so long, he was a barrier to the younger lads coming through. His record in Engalnd was patchy though, in any case.

This team have it all to prove again and there is a hunger about nthem that wasn't there in the last ashes.

Mitchel Johnston is a man to look for. I always thought he was shite and I can't get used to his bowling action at all, but his performances over the last few years have been outstanding, and not just with the ball.

The Aussie radio station I listen to on the way to work was going on about Bob Willis carping on about the lack of qualiy in the Aussie bowling attack.

Do not underestimate them. There's a lot on offer.
[/quote]

Mate i don't doubt that the Aussies have a decent side (you don't go and beat the SA's on there own patch if this is not the case).

Its just for me they are now lacking in key areas, which will prove the difference.

Wicket keeper
Not a single decent spinner
No quality all rounder.
Experience

I fully expect England & Wales to turn them over, but then probably go over to OZ and get there arses handed to them again.

On a side note, as far as I'm concerned Mitchell Johnston is the best left arm quickie I've seen since Wasim Akram.




[/quote]

Wicket Keeper - Haddin's more than good enough. He's got over his initial dodgy spell, and has settled in very well. His batting average is more than good enough for a number 7/8.
Spinner - Yes, the only area where they are truly low on quality. Hauritz is a container rather than a wicket-taker. Still, didn't stop them in South Africa. And will the English pitches really require spin?
All-rounder - Early stages yet, but Mitchell Johnson could take up this role. He's probably in the top 2 or 3 cricketers on Earth over the last 18 months.
Experience - Ponting, Lee, Clark, Clarke, Johnson, Hussey, etc etc. That's all better than England can offer.

Australia will win.
[/quote]

Haddin is average with the bat (he'll be in at number 7), How many 100's/50's does he have?

Spinning wickets? At least 2, Cardiff's are turning Square at the moment + All will spin on days 4/5

MJ is a great bowler, no doubts about it, but he's no better than Broad with the bat.

Sides that come over to England and beat them in a test series, generally have teams packed full of class and experience of English conditions, this Aussie team has neither.

 

[StevieM]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg874503#msg874503 date=1243243089]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33622.msg874310#msg874310 date=1243204021]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872713#msg872713 date=1243001692]
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=33622.msg872707#msg872707 date=1243000568]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872634#msg872634 date=1242992298]
England & Wales will win IMO.

The Aussies have lost far too many of there greats recently + Not enough of them have the required experience of playing in English conditions.



[/quote]

That's the whole point. It's not about experience, it's about the sheer balls to go out and win. WQarne and Gilchrist had the right idea, they left on a high. Hayden wen on too long. The key thing here was that in going on so long, he was a barrier to the younger lads coming through. His record in Engalnd was patchy though, in any case.

This team have it all to prove again and there is a hunger about nthem that wasn't there in the last ashes.

Mitchel Johnston is a man to look for. I always thought he was shite and I can't get used to his bowling action at all, but his performances over the last few years have been outstanding, and not just with the ball.

The Aussie radio station I listen to on the way to work was going on about Bob Willis carping on about the lack of qualiy in the Aussie bowling attack.

Do not underestimate them. There's a lot on offer.
[/quote]

Mate i don't doubt that the Aussies have a decent side (you don't go and beat the SA's on there own patch if this is not the case).

Its just for me they are now lacking in key areas, which will prove the difference.

Wicket keeper
Not a single decent spinner
No quality all rounder.
Experience

I fully expect England & Wales to turn them over, but then probably go over to OZ and get there arses handed to them again.

On a side note, as far as I'm concerned Mitchell Johnston is the best left arm quickie I've seen since Wasim Akram.




[/quote]

Wicket Keeper - Haddin's more than good enough. He's got over his initial dodgy spell, and has settled in very well. His batting average is more than good enough for a number 7/8.
Spinner - Yes, the only area where they are truly low on quality. Hauritz is a container rather than a wicket-taker. Still, didn't stop them in South Africa. And will the English pitches really require spin?
All-rounder - Early stages yet, but Mitchell Johnson could take up this role. He's probably in the top 2 or 3 cricketers on Earth over the last 18 months.
Experience - Ponting, Lee, Clark, Clarke, Johnson, Hussey, etc etc. That's all better than England can offer.

Australia will win.
[/quote]

Haddin is average with the bat (he'll be in at number 7), How many 100's/50's does he have?

Spinning wickets? At least 2, Cardiff's are turning Square at the moment + All will spin on days 4/5

MJ is a great bowler, no doubts about it, but he's no better than Broad with the bat.

Sides that come over to England and beat them in a test series, generally have teams packed full of class and experience of English conditions, this Aussie team has neither.



[/quote]

Or they only beat test nation of current average standing like Pakistan, West Indies or New Zealand, but don't win when the play the top nations like South Africa, Australia or India.

I wqouldn;t say it'd be closer that the last Ashes test in the UK, 'cause that would be practically impossible, and I can't see it being a walkover for either team, but I think the Aussies will sneak it.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=StevieM link=topic=33622.msg874671#msg874671 date=1243258043]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg874503#msg874503 date=1243243089]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33622.msg874310#msg874310 date=1243204021]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872713#msg872713 date=1243001692]
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=33622.msg872707#msg872707 date=1243000568]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872634#msg872634 date=1242992298]
England & Wales will win IMO.

The Aussies have lost far too many of there greats recently + Not enough of them have the required experience of playing in English conditions.



[/quote]

That's the whole point. It's not about experience, it's about the sheer balls to go out and win. WQarne and Gilchrist had the right idea, they left on a high. Hayden wen on too long. The key thing here was that in going on so long, he was a barrier to the younger lads coming through. His record in Engalnd was patchy though, in any case.

This team have it all to prove again and there is a hunger about nthem that wasn't there in the last ashes.

Mitchel Johnston is a man to look for. I always thought he was shite and I can't get used to his bowling action at all, but his performances over the last few years have been outstanding, and not just with the ball.

The Aussie radio station I listen to on the way to work was going on about Bob Willis carping on about the lack of qualiy in the Aussie bowling attack.

Do not underestimate them. There's a lot on offer.
[/quote]

Mate i don't doubt that the Aussies have a decent side (you don't go and beat the SA's on there own patch if this is not the case).

Its just for me they are now lacking in key areas, which will prove the difference.

Wicket keeper
Not a single decent spinner
No quality all rounder.
Experience

I fully expect England & Wales to turn them over, but then probably go over to OZ and get there arses handed to them again.

On a side note, as far as I'm concerned Mitchell Johnston is the best left arm quickie I've seen since Wasim Akram.




[/quote]

Wicket Keeper - Haddin's more than good enough. He's got over his initial dodgy spell, and has settled in very well. His batting average is more than good enough for a number 7/8.
Spinner - Yes, the only area where they are truly low on quality. Hauritz is a container rather than a wicket-taker. Still, didn't stop them in South Africa. And will the English pitches really require spin?
All-rounder - Early stages yet, but Mitchell Johnson could take up this role. He's probably in the top 2 or 3 cricketers on Earth over the last 18 months.
Experience - Ponting, Lee, Clark, Clarke, Johnson, Hussey, etc etc. That's all better than England can offer.

Australia will win.
[/quote]

Haddin is average with the bat (he'll be in at number 7), How many 100's/50's does he have?

Spinning wickets? At least 2, Cardiff's are turning Square at the moment + All will spin on days 4/5

MJ is a great bowler, no doubts about it, but he's no better than Broad with the bat.

Sides that come over to England and beat them in a test series, generally have teams packed full of class and experience of English conditions, this Aussie team has neither.



[/quote]

Or they only beat test nation of current average standing like Pakistan, West Indies or New Zealand, but don't win when the play the top nations like South Africa, Australia or India.

I wqouldn;t say it'd be closer that the last Ashes test in the UK, 'cause that would be practically impossible, and I can't see it being a walkover for either team, but I think the Aussies will sneak it.
[/quote]

SA have only ever won, one test series over here and India's record is maybe only slightly better than that. Maybe it's a coincidence, but when those 2 nations have been successful on English shores, then the vast majority of there squads have had extensive experience of the conditions.

Since the last Ashes series over here:

England & Wales team has improved in the WK/Spin areas, but probably got weaker in the seam bowling department. The batting is roughly the same.

The Aussies have got weaker in every department.

I think it will be close, but i just can't see how the Aussies will win.

We'll have to agree to disagree mate, and just wait and see how it turns out.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg874503#msg874503 date=1243243089]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33622.msg874310#msg874310 date=1243204021]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872713#msg872713 date=1243001692]
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=33622.msg872707#msg872707 date=1243000568]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872634#msg872634 date=1242992298]
England & Wales will win IMO.

The Aussies have lost far too many of there greats recently + Not enough of them have the required experience of playing in English conditions.



[/quote]

That's the whole point. It's not about experience, it's about the sheer balls to go out and win. WQarne and Gilchrist had the right idea, they left on a high. Hayden wen on too long. The key thing here was that in going on so long, he was a barrier to the younger lads coming through. His record in Engalnd was patchy though, in any case.

This team have it all to prove again and there is a hunger about nthem that wasn't there in the last ashes.

Mitchel Johnston is a man to look for. I always thought he was shite and I can't get used to his bowling action at all, but his performances over the last few years have been outstanding, and not just with the ball.

The Aussie radio station I listen to on the way to work was going on about Bob Willis carping on about the lack of qualiy in the Aussie bowling attack.

Do not underestimate them. There's a lot on offer.
[/quote]

Mate i don't doubt that the Aussies have a decent side (you don't go and beat the SA's on there own patch if this is not the case).

Its just for me they are now lacking in key areas, which will prove the difference.

Wicket keeper
Not a single decent spinner
No quality all rounder.
Experience

I fully expect England & Wales to turn them over, but then probably go over to OZ and get there arses handed to them again.

On a side note, as far as I'm concerned Mitchell Johnston is the best left arm quickie I've seen since Wasim Akram.




[/quote]

Wicket Keeper - Haddin's more than good enough. He's got over his initial dodgy spell, and has settled in very well. His batting average is more than good enough for a number 7/8.
Spinner - Yes, the only area where they are truly low on quality. Hauritz is a container rather than a wicket-taker. Still, didn't stop them in South Africa. And will the English pitches really require spin?
All-rounder - Early stages yet, but Mitchell Johnson could take up this role. He's probably in the top 2 or 3 cricketers on Earth over the last 18 months.
Experience - Ponting, Lee, Clark, Clarke, Johnson, Hussey, etc etc. That's all better than England can offer.

Australia will win.
[/quote]

Haddin is average with the bat (he'll be in at number 7), How many 100's/50's does he have?

Spinning wickets? At least 2, Cardiff's are turning Square at the moment + All will spin on days 4/5

MJ is a great bowler, no doubts about it, but he's no better than Broad with the bat.

Sides that come over to England and beat them in a test series, generally have teams packed full of class and experience of English conditions, this Aussie team has neither.



[/quote]

Johnson's done it on the big stage, when it counts. That's the difference.

You make it sound like Australia will be coming to play at fucking Millwall. These Australians have nearly all played on English pitches before, or has Phil Hughes recent record in Ciunty Cricket over the past 3 months missed you?

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33622.msg875039#msg875039 date=1243296615]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg874503#msg874503 date=1243243089]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33622.msg874310#msg874310 date=1243204021]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872713#msg872713 date=1243001692]
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=33622.msg872707#msg872707 date=1243000568]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872634#msg872634 date=1242992298]
England & Wales will win IMO.

The Aussies have lost far too many of there greats recently + Not enough of them have the required experience of playing in English conditions.



[/quote]

That's the whole point. It's not about experience, it's about the sheer balls to go out and win. WQarne and Gilchrist had the right idea, they left on a high. Hayden wen on too long. The key thing here was that in going on so long, he was a barrier to the younger lads coming through. His record in Engalnd was patchy though, in any case.

This team have it all to prove again and there is a hunger about nthem that wasn't there in the last ashes.

Mitchel Johnston is a man to look for. I always thought he was shite and I can't get used to his bowling action at all, but his performances over the last few years have been outstanding, and not just with the ball.

The Aussie radio station I listen to on the way to work was going on about Bob Willis carping on about the lack of qualiy in the Aussie bowling attack.

Do not underestimate them. There's a lot on offer.
[/quote]

Mate i don't doubt that the Aussies have a decent side (you don't go and beat the SA's on there own patch if this is not the case).

Its just for me they are now lacking in key areas, which will prove the difference.

Wicket keeper
Not a single decent spinner
No quality all rounder.
Experience

I fully expect England & Wales to turn them over, but then probably go over to OZ and get there arses handed to them again.

On a side note, as far as I'm concerned Mitchell Johnston is the best left arm quickie I've seen since Wasim Akram.




[/quote]

Wicket Keeper - Haddin's more than good enough. He's got over his initial dodgy spell, and has settled in very well. His batting average is more than good enough for a number 7/8.
Spinner - Yes, the only area where they are truly low on quality. Hauritz is a container rather than a wicket-taker. Still, didn't stop them in South Africa. And will the English pitches really require spin?
All-rounder - Early stages yet, but Mitchell Johnson could take up this role. He's probably in the top 2 or 3 cricketers on Earth over the last 18 months.
Experience - Ponting, Lee, Clark, Clarke, Johnson, Hussey, etc etc. That's all better than England can offer.

Australia will win.
[/quote]

Haddin is average with the bat (he'll be in at number 7), How many 100's/50's does he have?

Spinning wickets? At least 2, Cardiff's are turning Square at the moment + All will spin on days 4/5

MJ is a great bowler, no doubts about it, but he's no better than Broad with the bat.

Sides that come over to England and beat them in a test series, generally have teams packed full of class and experience of English conditions, this Aussie team has neither.



[/quote]

Johnson's done it on the big stage, when it counts. That's the difference.

You make it sound like Australia will be coming to play at fucking Millwall. These Australians have nearly all played on English pitches before, or has Phil Hughes recent record in Ciunty Cricket over the past 3 months missed you?
[/quote]

I think you'll find that Broad has too.

No they haven't, there's around 6-8 players with either very little or no experience of English conditions at all. Depending on what test venue they are playing at, then at least 4-5 of this group could end up starting in the Aussie test side.

Yeah i do big up the home factor and theres good reason too as well.

Like i said, lets just wait and see how it turns out.

 

[StevieM]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg875233#msg875233 date=1243328547]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33622.msg875039#msg875039 date=1243296615]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg874503#msg874503 date=1243243089]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33622.msg874310#msg874310 date=1243204021]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872713#msg872713 date=1243001692]
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=33622.msg872707#msg872707 date=1243000568]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872634#msg872634 date=1242992298]
England & Wales will win IMO.

The Aussies have lost far too many of there greats recently + Not enough of them have the required experience of playing in English conditions.



[/quote]

That's the whole point. It's not about experience, it's about the sheer balls to go out and win. WQarne and Gilchrist had the right idea, they left on a high. Hayden wen on too long. The key thing here was that in going on so long, he was a barrier to the younger lads coming through. His record in Engalnd was patchy though, in any case.

This team have it all to prove again and there is a hunger about nthem that wasn't there in the last ashes.

Mitchel Johnston is a man to look for. I always thought he was shite and I can't get used to his bowling action at all, but his performances over the last few years have been outstanding, and not just with the ball.

The Aussie radio station I listen to on the way to work was going on about Bob Willis carping on about the lack of qualiy in the Aussie bowling attack.

Do not underestimate them. There's a lot on offer.
[/quote]

Mate i don't doubt that the Aussies have a decent side (you don't go and beat the SA's on there own patch if this is not the case).

Its just for me they are now lacking in key areas, which will prove the difference.

Wicket keeper
Not a single decent spinner
No quality all rounder.
Experience

I fully expect England & Wales to turn them over, but then probably go over to OZ and get there arses handed to them again.

On a side note, as far as I'm concerned Mitchell Johnston is the best left arm quickie I've seen since Wasim Akram.




[/quote]

Wicket Keeper - Haddin's more than good enough. He's got over his initial dodgy spell, and has settled in very well. His batting average is more than good enough for a number 7/8.
Spinner - Yes, the only area where they are truly low on quality. Hauritz is a container rather than a wicket-taker. Still, didn't stop them in South Africa. And will the English pitches really require spin?
All-rounder - Early stages yet, but Mitchell Johnson could take up this role. He's probably in the top 2 or 3 cricketers on Earth over the last 18 months.
Experience - Ponting, Lee, Clark, Clarke, Johnson, Hussey, etc etc. That's all better than England can offer.

Australia will win.
[/quote]

Haddin is average with the bat (he'll be in at number 7), How many 100's/50's does he have?

Spinning wickets? At least 2, Cardiff's are turning Square at the moment + All will spin on days 4/5

MJ is a great bowler, no doubts about it, but he's no better than Broad with the bat.

Sides that come over to England and beat them in a test series, generally have teams packed full of class and experience of English conditions, this Aussie team has neither.



[/quote]

Johnson's done it on the big stage, when it counts. That's the difference.

You make it sound like Australia will be coming to play at fucking Millwall. These Australians have nearly all played on English pitches before, or has Phil Hughes recent record in Ciunty Cricket over the past 3 months missed you?
[/quote]

I think you'll find that Broad has too.

No they haven't, there's around 6-8 players with either very little or no experience of English conditions at all. Depending on what test venue they are playing at, then at least 4-5 of this group could end up starting in the Aussie test side.

Yeah i do big up the home factor and theres good reason too as well.

Like i said, lets just wait and see how it turns out.


[/quote]

You're absolutely right to, what with England's impressive 6 Home Series Ashes wins since the 2nd World War against Australia's paltry 9 wins in England.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=StevieM link=topic=33622.msg876527#msg876527 date=1243434178]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg875233#msg875233 date=1243328547]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33622.msg875039#msg875039 date=1243296615]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg874503#msg874503 date=1243243089]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33622.msg874310#msg874310 date=1243204021]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872713#msg872713 date=1243001692]
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=33622.msg872707#msg872707 date=1243000568]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872634#msg872634 date=1242992298]
England & Wales will win IMO.

The Aussies have lost far too many of there greats recently + Not enough of them have the required experience of playing in English conditions.



[/quote]

That's the whole point. It's not about experience, it's about the sheer balls to go out and win. WQarne and Gilchrist had the right idea, they left on a high. Hayden wen on too long. The key thing here was that in going on so long, he was a barrier to the younger lads coming through. His record in Engalnd was patchy though, in any case.

This team have it all to prove again and there is a hunger about nthem that wasn't there in the last ashes.

Mitchel Johnston is a man to look for. I always thought he was shite and I can't get used to his bowling action at all, but his performances over the last few years have been outstanding, and not just with the ball.

The Aussie radio station I listen to on the way to work was going on about Bob Willis carping on about the lack of qualiy in the Aussie bowling attack.

Do not underestimate them. There's a lot on offer.
[/quote]

Mate i don't doubt that the Aussies have a decent side (you don't go and beat the SA's on there own patch if this is not the case).

Its just for me they are now lacking in key areas, which will prove the difference.

Wicket keeper
Not a single decent spinner
No quality all rounder.
Experience

I fully expect England & Wales to turn them over, but then probably go over to OZ and get there arses handed to them again.

On a side note, as far as I'm concerned Mitchell Johnston is the best left arm quickie I've seen since Wasim Akram.




[/quote]

Wicket Keeper - Haddin's more than good enough. He's got over his initial dodgy spell, and has settled in very well. His batting average is more than good enough for a number 7/8.
Spinner - Yes, the only area where they are truly low on quality. Hauritz is a container rather than a wicket-taker. Still, didn't stop them in South Africa. And will the English pitches really require spin?
All-rounder - Early stages yet, but Mitchell Johnson could take up this role. He's probably in the top 2 or 3 cricketers on Earth over the last 18 months.
Experience - Ponting, Lee, Clark, Clarke, Johnson, Hussey, etc etc. That's all better than England can offer.

Australia will win.
[/quote]

Haddin is average with the bat (he'll be in at number 7), How many 100's/50's does he have?

Spinning wickets? At least 2, Cardiff's are turning Square at the moment + All will spin on days 4/5

MJ is a great bowler, no doubts about it, but he's no better than Broad with the bat.

Sides that come over to England and beat them in a test series, generally have teams packed full of class and experience of English conditions, this Aussie team has neither.



[/quote]

Johnson's done it on the big stage, when it counts. That's the difference.

You make it sound like Australia will be coming to play at fucking Millwall. These Australians have nearly all played on English pitches before, or has Phil Hughes recent record in Ciunty Cricket over the past 3 months missed you?
[/quote]

I think you'll find that Broad has too.

No they haven't, there's around 6-8 players with either very little or no experience of English conditions at all. Depending on what test venue they are playing at, then at least 4-5 of this group could end up starting in the Aussie test side.

Yeah i do big up the home factor and theres good reason too as well.

Like i said, lets just wait and see how it turns out.


[/quote]

You're absolutely right to, what with England's impressive 6 Home Series Ashes wins since the 2nd World War against Australia's paltry 9 wins in England.
[/quote]


I wonder how this current Aussie team would match up against those previous sides sent over here? Yeah thats right, they'd be one of the weakest.

 

[StevieM]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg876529#msg876529 date=1243434493]
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=33622.msg876527#msg876527 date=1243434178]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg875233#msg875233 date=1243328547]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33622.msg875039#msg875039 date=1243296615]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg874503#msg874503 date=1243243089]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33622.msg874310#msg874310 date=1243204021]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872713#msg872713 date=1243001692]
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=33622.msg872707#msg872707 date=1243000568]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872634#msg872634 date=1242992298]
England & Wales will win IMO.

The Aussies have lost far too many of there greats recently + Not enough of them have the required experience of playing in English conditions.



[/quote]

That's the whole point. It's not about experience, it's about the sheer balls to go out and win. WQarne and Gilchrist had the right idea, they left on a high. Hayden wen on too long. The key thing here was that in going on so long, he was a barrier to the younger lads coming through. His record in Engalnd was patchy though, in any case.

This team have it all to prove again and there is a hunger about nthem that wasn't there in the last ashes.

Mitchel Johnston is a man to look for. I always thought he was shite and I can't get used to his bowling action at all, but his performances over the last few years have been outstanding, and not just with the ball.

The Aussie radio station I listen to on the way to work was going on about Bob Willis carping on about the lack of qualiy in the Aussie bowling attack.

Do not underestimate them. There's a lot on offer.
[/quote]

Mate i don't doubt that the Aussies have a decent side (you don't go and beat the SA's on there own patch if this is not the case).

Its just for me they are now lacking in key areas, which will prove the difference.

Wicket keeper
Not a single decent spinner
No quality all rounder.
Experience

I fully expect England & Wales to turn them over, but then probably go over to OZ and get there arses handed to them again.

On a side note, as far as I'm concerned Mitchell Johnston is the best left arm quickie I've seen since Wasim Akram.




[/quote]

Wicket Keeper - Haddin's more than good enough. He's got over his initial dodgy spell, and has settled in very well. His batting average is more than good enough for a number 7/8.
Spinner - Yes, the only area where they are truly low on quality. Hauritz is a container rather than a wicket-taker. Still, didn't stop them in South Africa. And will the English pitches really require spin?
All-rounder - Early stages yet, but Mitchell Johnson could take up this role. He's probably in the top 2 or 3 cricketers on Earth over the last 18 months.
Experience - Ponting, Lee, Clark, Clarke, Johnson, Hussey, etc etc. That's all better than England can offer.

Australia will win.
[/quote]

Haddin is average with the bat (he'll be in at number 7), How many 100's/50's does he have?

Spinning wickets? At least 2, Cardiff's are turning Square at the moment + All will spin on days 4/5

MJ is a great bowler, no doubts about it, but he's no better than Broad with the bat.

Sides that come over to England and beat them in a test series, generally have teams packed full of class and experience of English conditions, this Aussie team has neither.



[/quote]

Johnson's done it on the big stage, when it counts. That's the difference.

You make it sound like Australia will be coming to play at fucking Millwall. These Australians have nearly all played on English pitches before, or has Phil Hughes recent record in Ciunty Cricket over the past 3 months missed you?
[/quote]

I think you'll find that Broad has too.

No they haven't, there's around 6-8 players with either very little or no experience of English conditions at all. Depending on what test venue they are playing at, then at least 4-5 of this group could end up starting in the Aussie test side.

Yeah i do big up the home factor and theres good reason too as well.

Like i said, lets just wait and see how it turns out.


[/quote]

You're absolutely right to, what with England's impressive 6 Home Series Ashes wins since the 2nd World War against Australia's paltry 9 wins in England.
[/quote]


I wonder how this current Aussie team would match up against those previous sides sent over here? Yeah thats right, they'd be one of the weakest.
[/quote]

You know what. The team Australia sent over for the last Ashes series looked great on paper, but there were too many people coming to the end of their careers and it was in steady decline up until the series in SA.

I say again, the current team has a hunger to prove itself unlike any for a few years.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

They can have all the hunger they want mate, but there is still far less quality bankers in this current Aussie team.

Warne, Langer and GM still had very good tours last time around (probably 3 of there best players in that series), allthough i agree that a number of them were clearly coming to the end.

In years gone by(inc the last series over here), the Aussies could just chuck the ball to either Warne or Glenn when they needed a wicket, now they'll have to hope that Johnston can do that job for them. He might be a high class bowler, but there is no way that he'll have the same effect as those two legends did.

Hows Lee come back from his recent injury?

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg876569#msg876569 date=1243439075]
They can have all the hunger they want mate, but there is still far less quality bankers in this current Aussie team.

Warne, Langer and GM still had very good tours last time around (probably 3 of there best players in that series), allthough i agree that a number of them were clearly coming to the end.

In years gone by(inc the last series over here), the Aussies could just chuck the ball to either Warne or Glenn when they needed a wicket, now they'll have to hope that Johnston can do that job for them. He might be a high class bowler, but there is no way that he'll have the same effect as those two legends did.

Hows Lee come back from his recent injury?


[/quote]

A few things:

They don't have to "hope" Johnson produces a wicket. He will. He's the best bowler in the world.

Your completely ignoring the weaknesses in the English side. Where's the batting strength? Cook would struggle to get into any other side in the World. Strauss was an abject failure in Australia last time around, and Pietersen aside - the rest are totally unproven at this level.

Lee's comeback is non-existent thus far. He's been picked on experience alone.

 

[StevieM]

Lee's done as a player. he hasn't the accuracy nor consistent ability to swing or seam the ball to be effective now he's lost the explosive pace.

Every now and then he'll have a great test and his batting has certainly improved over the years, but I think Ryan's right. He's there as the experienced one and because some of the youngsters, while fast have very little control

You've also got to remember that State Level Cricket in Australia is a pretty high standard and arguably a much better breeding ground for test cricket than County Level (less players = more elite).

If there has been an issue with the Aussie team over the last few years it's the reluctance to pick players from Victoria, who have been doing well at state level.

If only Cameron White could bowl, he'd be a decent squad addition.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33622.msg877127#msg877127 date=1243469399]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg876569#msg876569 date=1243439075]
They can have all the hunger they want mate, but there is still far less quality bankers in this current Aussie team.

Warne, Langer and GM still had very good tours last time around (probably 3 of there best players in that series), allthough i agree that a number of them were clearly coming to the end.

In years gone by(inc the last series over here), the Aussies could just chuck the ball to either Warne or Glenn when they needed a wicket, now they'll have to hope that Johnston can do that job for them. He might be a high class bowler, but there is no way that he'll have the same effect as those two legends did.

Hows Lee come back from his recent injury?


[/quote]

A few things:

They don't have to "hope" Johnson produces a wicket. He will. He's the best bowler in the world.

Your completely ignoring the weaknesses in the English side. Where's the batting strength? Cook would struggle to get into any other side in the World. Strauss was an abject failure in Australia last time around, and Pietersen aside - the rest are totally unproven at this level.

Lee's comeback is non-existent thus far. He's been picked on experience alone.
[/quote]

Hes certainly very good, but he won't roll over England like GM and Warne used to do IMO.

Yeah i do agree with you about Cook, if MV was in decent form i'd drop him in a heartbeat. Either way thats not going to happen though considering that hes VC at the moment.

Strauss is clearly one of the best test openers around, lets not forget that he got 2 tons against a much better Aussie bowling attack, last time they were over here.

All bar Pietersen are unproven hey? i think you need to check out the test records of:

Strauss
Colly
Flintoff
Prior

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=StevieM link=topic=33622.msg877379#msg877379 date=1243503546]
Lee's done as a player. he hasn't the accuracy nor consistent ability to swing or seam the ball to be effective now he's lost the explosive pace.

Every now and then he'll have a great test and his batting has certainly improved over the years, but I think Ryan's right. He's there as the experienced one and because some of the youngsters, while fast have very little control

You've also got to remember that State Level Cricket in Australia is a pretty high standard and arguably a much better breeding ground for test cricket than County Level (less players = more elite).

If there has been an issue with the Aussie team over the last few years it's the reluctance to pick players from Victoria, who have been doing well at state level.

If only Cameron White could bowl, he'd be a decent squad addition.
[/quote]

Mate i wouldn't argue that State cricket is not of a very high level, i know it is. I remember a lot of comments coming from the Aussies about how our county cricket makes our youngsters soft, and to be fair in some cases you can't disagree with them.

A few years back White looked like he was going to be a world beater, it looks like his bowling has gone a little backwards though. I still think that he can have a very decent impact on the shorter versions of the game.


Whats the issue with not picking Victorians?

 

[StevieM]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg877415#msg877415 date=1243506090]
[quote author=StevieM link=topic=33622.msg877379#msg877379 date=1243503546]
Lee's done as a player. he hasn't the accuracy nor consistent ability to swing or seam the ball to be effective now he's lost the explosive pace.

Every now and then he'll have a great test and his batting has certainly improved over the years, but I think Ryan's right. He's there as the experienced one and because some of the youngsters, while fast have very little control

You've also got to remember that State Level Cricket in Australia is a pretty high standard and arguably a much better breeding ground for test cricket than County Level (less players = more elite).

If there has been an issue with the Aussie team over the last few years it's the reluctance to pick players from Victoria, who have been doing well at state level.

If only Cameron White could bowl, he'd be a decent squad addition.
[/quote]

Mate i wouldn't argue that State cricket is not of a very high level, i know it is. I remember a lot of comments coming from the Aussies about how our county cricket makes our youngsters soft, and to be fair in some cases you can't disagree with them.

A few years back White looked like he was going to be a world beater, it looks like his bowling has gone a little backwards though. I still think that he can have a very decent impact on the shorter versions of the game.


Whats the issue with not picking Victorians?
[/quote]

You'd have to ask the selectors.

White's batting gives him a chance. His bowling is just no top standard.

Victoria are the current Shefflied Shield/Pura Cup winners, yet the team there are more WA & NSW players in the team

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33622.msg877127#msg877127 date=1243469399]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg876569#msg876569 date=1243439075]
They can have all the hunger they want mate, but there is still far less quality bankers in this current Aussie team.

Warne, Langer and GM still had very good tours last time around (probably 3 of there best players in that series), allthough i agree that a number of them were clearly coming to the end.

In years gone by(inc the last series over here), the Aussies could just chuck the ball to either Warne or Glenn when they needed a wicket, now they'll have to hope that Johnston can do that job for them. He might be a high class bowler, but there is no way that he'll have the same effect as those two legends did.

Hows Lee come back from his recent injury?


[/quote]

A few things:

They don't have to "hope" Johnson produces a wicket. He will. He's the best bowler in the world.
[/quote]No he isnt. Murali is.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=33622.msg877844#msg877844 date=1243534069]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=33622.msg877127#msg877127 date=1243469399]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg876569#msg876569 date=1243439075]
They can have all the hunger they want mate, but there is still far less quality bankers in this current Aussie team.

Warne, Langer and GM still had very good tours last time around (probably 3 of there best players in that series), allthough i agree that a number of them were clearly coming to the end.

In years gone by(inc the last series over here), the Aussies could just chuck the ball to either Warne or Glenn when they needed a wicket, now they'll have to hope that Johnston can do that job for them. He might be a high class bowler, but there is no way that he'll have the same effect as those two legends did.

Hows Lee come back from his recent injury?


[/quote]

A few things:

They don't have to "hope" Johnson produces a wicket. He will. He's the best bowler in the world.
[/quote]No he isnt. Murali is.
[/quote]

If you're talking about taking wickets against Bangladesh, then yes he is.

Johnson, over the past 2 years is proven as the best bowler going around. Few would argue it mate.

 

[LarryHagman]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872993#msg872993 date=1243069421]
Flintoff
KP
Strauss
Prior
Monty/Swann/Rashid
Anderson

Would all get into the current Aussie team IMO, you could even make a strong argument for Broad as well.


[/quote]


That sounds like the usual soundbite before a footy World Cup e.g. Ferdinand, Terry, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney etc. would all get in virtually any International squad. Then they play shit for 3 games and get knocked out by a load of players on a tenth of the wages.
Why do fans of England teams in any sport automatically think their players are up there with the best in the World despite an amazing track record of failure across most major sports? And I ask that as an Englishman. Is it because they get paid so much or because Sky repeatedly tell us that they're the best?
This Aussie team doesn't have the experience or the big names that touring squads have had for the last 20 years but I still think they may be too good for England. It will be close though.
This thread has mentioned their deficiencies but in Ponting they have the best batsman in the World and Clarke and Hussey aren't exactly duffers either. Hughes and Katich are capable of scoring heavily and Haddin (under-rated, not his fault he followed Gilchrist) and Watson will chip in. Johnson is a very good quick but I think their attack is their weakest area. Mind you, someone will step up, they always do.
Australia to win 2-1.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=33622.msg878042#msg878042 date=1243560411]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872993#msg872993 date=1243069421]
Flintoff
KP
Strauss
Prior
Monty/Swann/Rashid
Anderson

Would all get into the current Aussie team IMO, you could even make a strong argument for Broad as well.


[/quote]


That sounds like the usual soundbite before a footy World Cup e.g. Ferdinand, Terry, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney etc. would all get in virtually any International squad. Then they play shit for 3 games and get knocked out by a load of players on a tenth of the wages.
Why do fans of England teams in any sport automatically think their players are up there with the best in the World despite an amazing track record of failure across most major sports? And I ask that as an Englishman. Is it because they get paid so much or because Sky repeatedly tell us that they're the best?
This Aussie team doesn't have the experience or the big names that touring squads have had for the last 20 years but I still think they may be too good for England. It will be close though.
This thread has mentioned their deficiencies but in Ponting they have the best batsman in the World and Clarke and Hussey aren't exactly duffers either. Hughes and Katich are capable of scoring heavily and Haddin (under-rated, not his fault he followed Gilchrist) and Watson will chip in. Johnson is a very good quick but I think their attack is their weakest area. Mind you, someone will step up, they always do.
Australia to win 2-1.



[/quote]

Spot on Larry.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=33622.msg878042#msg878042 date=1243560411]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872993#msg872993 date=1243069421]
Flintoff
KP
Strauss
Prior
Monty/Swann/Rashid
Anderson

Would all get into the current Aussie team IMO, you could even make a strong argument for Broad as well.


[/quote]


That sounds like the usual soundbite before a footy World Cup e.g. Ferdinand, Terry, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney etc. would all get in virtually any International squad. Then they play shit for 3 games and get knocked out by a load of players on a tenth of the wages.
Why do fans of England teams in any sport automatically think their players are up there with the best in the World despite an amazing track record of failure across most major sports? And I ask that as an Englishman. Is it because they get paid so much or because Sky repeatedly tell us that they're the best?
This Aussie team doesn't have the experience or the big names that touring squads have had for the last 20 years but I still think they may be too good for England. It will be close though.
This thread has mentioned their deficiencies but in Ponting they have the best batsman in the World and Clarke and Hussey aren't exactly duffers either. Hughes and Katich are capable of scoring heavily and Haddin (under-rated, not his fault he followed Gilchrist) and Watson will chip in. Johnson is a very good quick but I think their attack is their weakest area. Mind you, someone will step up, they always do.
Australia to win 2-1.



[/quote]

It's a given that KP and Flintoff would walk into that team.

Prior averages 50 in test cricket (more games played too) compaired to Haddins mid 30's.

Anyone of Englands 3 spinners are far better than the Aussie option, have you seen his state average? have you ever actually seen him play at all?

Strauss and Anderson would have great chances also, just look at there recent records and there standings in the test rankings.

If you're going to make silly statements, at least try to back it up a little better Larry.

 

[StevieM]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg878126#msg878126 date=1243583898]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=33622.msg878042#msg878042 date=1243560411]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=33622.msg872993#msg872993 date=1243069421]
Flintoff
KP
Strauss
Prior
Monty/Swann/Rashid
Anderson

Would all get into the current Aussie team IMO, you could even make a strong argument for Broad as well.


[/quote]


That sounds like the usual soundbite before a footy World Cup e.g. Ferdinand, Terry, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney etc. would all get in virtually any International squad. Then they play shit for 3 games and get knocked out by a load of players on a tenth of the wages.
Why do fans of England teams in any sport automatically think their players are up there with the best in the World despite an amazing track record of failure across most major sports? And I ask that as an Englishman. Is it because they get paid so much or because Sky repeatedly tell us that they're the best?
This Aussie team doesn't have the experience or the big names that touring squads have had for the last 20 years but I still think they may be too good for England. It will be close though.
This thread has mentioned their deficiencies but in Ponting they have the best batsman in the World and Clarke and Hussey aren't exactly duffers either. Hughes and Katich are capable of scoring heavily and Haddin (under-rated, not his fault he followed Gilchrist) and Watson will chip in. Johnson is a very good quick but I think their attack is their weakest area. Mind you, someone will step up, they always do.
Australia to win 2-1.



[/quote]

It's a given that KP and Flintoff would walk into that team.

Prior averages 50 in test cricket (more games played too) compaired to Haddins mid 30's.

Anyone of Englands 3 spinners are far better than the Aussie option, have you seen his state average? have you ever actually seen him play at all?

Strauss and Anderson would have great chances also, just look at there recent records and there standings in the test rankings.

If you're going to make silly statements, at least try to back it up a little better Larry.
[/quote]

I think you're going to have to change your name to "Englandcricketteam4PM"

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Ha.

Seeing as I'm not English, that wouldn't ever be an option for me!

I just don't rate this Aussie team anywhere near the same class as recent teams they've had.

 

[LarryHagman]

I don't think anyone else does Rafa.

 

[StevieM]

Read a really interesting article about Troy Cooley yesterday.

Cooley, an Australian, was the England bowling coach during the last Ashes Series in England and is credited with getting the best our of Harmison, Flintoff, Hoggard, Jones and Anderson. Specifically he was credited as teaching the bowlers to utilise reverse swing.

Colley is now the Australian bowling coach and his arrival conincided with Mitchel Johnston's improvement.

It is thought that Cooley's influence could be one of the deciding factors of this years Ashes.

The article can be read here :-

http://www.theage.com.au/news/sport/cricket/cooley-back-in-town/2009/06/12/1244664851963.html

 

[Roopy]

Mitchell Johnson has performed very well lately but he's an annoying bowler to watch.

He'll bowl 5 wide-ish deliveries and then one at the stumps.

Not as attacking as an Ishant Sharma or Dale Steyn.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Roopy link=topic=33622.msg887676#msg887676 date=1244967583]
Mitchell Johnson has performed very well lately but he's an annoying bowler to watch.

He'll bowl 5 wide-ish deliveries and then one at the stumps.

Not as attacking as an Ishant Sharma or Dale Steyn.
[/quote]

He's a much better bowler than Sharma.

 

[Atlas]

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=33622.msg872258#msg872258 date=1242936142]

If he could stay fit for 5 minutes he'd be one of the best bowlers in the world IMHO.
[/quote]
[flash=400,400]http://www.youtube.com/v/r4jeQG15QAk&hl=en&fs=1&[/flash]

These two really made bowling a joy to watch, for me Jones was the pick that summer no particular reason but his ability to reverse swing it was immense

 

[StevieM]

Apparrently Bret Lee has been getting the ball to reverse swing at 150km an hour.

That should be fun to watch if he can be accurate.

 

[Atlas]

We need Chris Gayle to wack that motherfunk out of the ground again.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=StevieM link=topic=33622.msg894201#msg894201 date=1245850335]
Apparrently Bret Lee has been getting the ball to reverse swing at 150km an hour.

That should be fun to watch if he can be accurate.
[/quote]

Lee's one of these bowlers who need to be 100% fit, 100% on-form and 100% confident to be a good addition to the Australian side. When he's got all of those, he's a fearsome bowler. When he's slightly off his best he's a 1-120 bowler.

 

[LarryHagman]

It's what, 2/3 weeks to The Ashes. Ryan/Roopy, the build up is non existent here (in WA). I'm 100% sure when it starts it will be headline but I'd expected to see more by now. What's it like where you are?