Suarez SIGNED. Welcome to Liverpool Luis

[Ryan]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

Every single club in the top 4 right now plays players o0ut of position.

Some have been doing it for years, and some have made better players out of their talent as a result of it.

I fucking despise this attitude that it's only us and our recent managers with their supposedly fucked up positional sense who have to endure this. We don't. Now get the fuck over it.

 

[dmishra]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=43645.msg1257570#msg1257570 date=1295500985]
Every single club in the top 4 right now plays players o0ut of position.

Some have been doing it for years, and some have made better players out of their talent as a result of it.

I fucking despise this attitude that it's only us and our recent managers with their supposedly fucked up positional sense who have to endure this. We don't. Now get the fuck over it.
[/quote]

Agreed. If Suarez comes, I expect him to be played as a wide forward, and I strongly suspect that that'll be his best position in the PL.

 

[Y1]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

OooOooh... touchy

Playing Johnson on the left when he is predominantly right footed may work for a couple of games, after which he can be as effective as Riise with his right foot.

I just wonder why we buy players that don't suit the positions that we play them at. If we have existing players for certain positions filled, simply buy players that are suitable for the positions we would like to fill. Expensive mistakes like Cole, Babel and maybe even Johnson are difficult to stomach.

 

[dmishra]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

I think Ryan's point was that a lot of clubs apart from us also do it. It doesn't always work, and is often frustrating, but it also at times ends up in better utilisation of certain talents (e.g. Kuyt - who I think makes a much better wide forward than a central striker)

Of the many issues I had with Rafa, I don't think playing players out of position was one.

 

[Y1]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

Top clubs doing that I think should not be an excuse. The question is why do they do it? The most successful 'switch' of position for a player was Thierry Henry, as far as I can think of, towards the flank. But he was hardly taking the world by storm in his original position which was centre forward if I am not mistaken. Are there really any other good examples of successful being played out of position? Rooney couldn't do it out wide. Stevie Gerrard maybe when he was out of his favourite central role when Rafa played him wide for a season.

 

[dmishra]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

Some of the players I can think off from the top of my head:

Gerrard and Lampard - both being converted into AMs
Henry and Van Persie - both converted into strikers from wingers
Carra - converted into a CB after spending some 5 years as a full-back
Kuyt - converted into a wide forward
Ronaldo - converted into a wide forward (being a touchline hugging winger previously)

I'm not saying it always works and there are probably many examples of players who've flopped as a result of being played out of position, but sometimes it's necessary.

 

[Ryan]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

[quote author=Y1 link=topic=43645.msg1257572#msg1257572 date=1295502380]
OooOooh... touchy

Playing Johnson on the left when he is predominantly right footed may work for a couple of games, after which he can be as effective as Riise with his right foot. I'd say Glen Johnson's played 50 odd games for Liverpool, a grand total of 2 of them have been as left back. Great example that.
I just wonder why we buy players that don't suit the positions that we play them at - name them . If we have existing players for certain positions filled, simply buy players that are suitable for the positions we would like to fill. Expensive mistakes like Cole, Babel and maybe even Johnson are difficult to stomach. That's an entirely different argument. Babel didn't play cos he was shite, not because we played him out of position. Cole is facing similar problems. He's not being played in an uncomfortbale position, he's just not being played cos he's done bugger all when he's had the chance. And Glenjo we've already gone through. [/quote]

A further example - Martin Kelly. A centre-back by trade, and is currently being deployed at right-back. Are you saying that such positioning is bad for his development?

You've got no point at all here.

 

[Y1]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

Hmmm, not sure about SG and Lampard. What were their original position?

Kuyt out wide is hardly lighting up the team, hard working though he may be.

Carra being a FB is as effective as his being a CB, pure heart and soul, but he is slowing with age, so FB would not suit him if he is needed to bomb forward down the flank.

Ronaldo, is still a wide player, only encouraged to come into attack, hardly a change.

 

[Ryan]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

[quote author=Y1 link=topic=43645.msg1257576#msg1257576 date=1295503945]
Top clubs doing that I think should not be an excuse. The question is why do they do it? The most successful 'switch' of position for a player was Thierry Henry, as far as I can think of, towards the flank. But he was hardly taking the world by storm in his original position which was centre forward if I am not mistaken. Are there really any other good examples of successful being played out of position? Rooney couldn't do it out wide. Stevie Gerrard maybe when he was out of his favourite central role when Rafa played him wide for a season.
[/quote]

Are you being deliebrately obtuse?

'Why do top clubs play players out of position?' - I can't believe you genuinely need that answered, but I will anyway - for the betterment of the team.

"Rooney couldn't do it out wide" - Maybe not, but when he was there Ronaldo scored 40 goals, they got 80M for him, and they got to two Champions League Finals.

There are one billion other examples of players playing out of their preferred position for the betterment of the team. Have a look at the two best teams in the World - Spain & Barcelona - for a perfect example as to why.

 

[Y1]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=43645.msg1257579#msg1257579 date=1295505238]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=43645.msg1257572#msg1257572 date=1295502380]
OooOooh... touchy

Playing Johnson on the left when he is predominantly right footed may work for a couple of games, after which he can be as effective as Riise with his right foot. I'd say Glen Johnson's played 50 odd games for Liverpool, a grand total of 2 of them have been as left back. Great example that.
I just wonder why we buy players that don't suit the positions that we play them at - name them . If we have existing players for certain positions filled, simply buy players that are suitable for the positions we would like to fill. Expensive mistakes like Cole, Babel and maybe even Johnson are difficult to stomach. That's an entirely different argument. Babel didn't play cos he was shite, not because we played him out of position. Cole is facing similar problems. He's not being played in an uncomfortbale position, he's just not being played cos he's done bugger all when he's had the chance. And Glenjo we've already gone through. [/quote]

A further example - Martin Kelly. A centre-back by trade, and is currently being deployed at right-back. Are you saying that such positioning is bad for his development?

You've got no point at all here.
[/quote]

Raul at the left and Poulson (ok we know he is shite) as DM?

Kelly is a very pleasant surprise. When we needed a make shift RB, he took it. Not deliberately shifted out of position imho. I can see him taking up his CB position eventually.

 

[Rosco]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

I predict if we sign Suarez he'll only be the second best Luis we've ever had.

 

[dmishra]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

[quote author=Y1 link=topic=43645.msg1257580#msg1257580 date=1295505434]
Hmmm, not sure about SG and Lampard. What were their original position?
Gerrard and Lampard's favoured position is CM, isn't it? How often have they played there though?

Kuyt out wide is hardly lighting up the team, hard working though he may be.

Despite what people say, Kuyt has been a success as a wide forward. He doesn't have the pace or the strength to be an effective striker in the league. His work rate and solid overall play is much better suited to the wide forward role (in a 4-2-3-1) and he's chipped in with about 10 goals and 7-8 assists every season

Carra being a FB is as effective as his being a CB, pure heart and soul, but he is slowing with age, so FB would not suit him if he is needed to bomb forward down the flank.

No he isn't. He was a good full-back. He's a world-class centre-back. Spot the difference.

Ronaldo, is still a wide player, only encouraged to come into attack, hardly a change.

I think there's a big difference between a wide player in a 4-4-2 and a wide-player in a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 i.e. between a touchline hugging winger and a wide forward.

[/quote]

 

[dmishra]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

Also, this is going off topic. We can discuss where Suarez will play IF we sign him.

 

[Y1]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=43645.msg1257581#msg1257581 date=1295505515]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=43645.msg1257576#msg1257576 date=1295503945]
Top clubs doing that I think should not be an excuse. The question is why do they do it? The most successful 'switch' of position for a player was Thierry Henry, as far as I can think of, towards the flank. But he was hardly taking the world by storm in his original position which was centre forward if I am not mistaken. Are there really any other good examples of successful being played out of position? Rooney couldn't do it out wide. Stevie Gerrard maybe when he was out of his favourite central role when Rafa played him wide for a season.
[/quote]

Are you being deliebrately obtuse?

'Why do top clubs play players out of position?' - I can't believe you genuinely need that answered, but I will anyway - for the betterment of the team.

"Rooney couldn't do it out wide" - Maybe not, but when he was there Ronaldo scored 40 goals, they got 80M for him, and they got to two Champions League Finals.

There are one billion other examples of players playing out of their preferred position for the betterment of the team. Have a look at the two best teams in the World - Spain & Barcelona - for a perfect example as to why.
[/quote]

Far from it that I want to be obtuse, just to speak my mind. Barcelona I believe developed their young players to be flexible, to a certain extent. But they still have their recognised players for certain positions. When they do buy players they buy them for a certain position and expect them to play there, like Masher. I doubt they would buy Alonso to do Masher's job and they already have better CM in Iniesta and Xabi.

 

[Ryan]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=43645.msg1257583#msg1257583 date=1295506271]
I predict if we sign Suarez he'll only be the second best Luis we've ever had.
[/quote]

Ha, so true.

 

[Ryan]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

[quote author=Y1 link=topic=43645.msg1257580#msg1257580 date=1295505434]

Kuyt out wide is hardly lighting up the team, hard working though he may be.

[/quote]

Please name me more than a handful of players who've contributed more goals and assists from the right-wing than Dirk over the last 3 or 4 years.

Thanks.

 

[keniget]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

It's hard not to sympathise with Y1's point though. It's not like we've got David Villa out on the left for us... we get stuck with square pegs in round holes and it really shows.

I think (and hope) Suarez will prove he can be adaptable though.

 

[Y1]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=43645.msg1257590#msg1257590 date=1295506896]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=43645.msg1257580#msg1257580 date=1295505434]

Kuyt out wide is hardly lighting up the team, hard working though he may be.

[/quote]

Please name me more than a handful of players who've contributed more goals and assists from the right-wing than Dirk over the last 3 or 4 years.

Thanks.
[/quote]

There isn't for LFC at the right wing but I wonder whether we could use him better as a foil for Torres up front but we will never know because we did not buy an out and out genuine class right winger and he is ever present out at the right. I like Kuyt, his work rate is second to none but he was suppose to come in as a striker!

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=43645.msg1257590#msg1257590 date=1295506896]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=43645.msg1257580#msg1257580 date=1295505434]

Kuyt out wide is hardly lighting up the team, hard working though he may be.

[/quote]

Please name me more than a handful of players who've contributed more goals and assists from the right-wing than Dirk over the last 3 or 4 years.

Thanks.
[/quote]

Great - this arguement again!

 

[Akakabooto]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

I have no worries about Suarez being a round peg in a square hole if played out wide. He has all the attributes to be a great wing forward and I've heard he has been very good at that role when he's done it in the past.

If we are going to pay £20m for a forward player I do hope he can play the wide role too as Torres will still be our no1 striker. There are not that many teams playing with 2 strikers these days and a lot of strikers have had to adjust to it. It's not like they are wingers anyway, it's way different.

Kuyt has been great in that role for many seasons before this one. Now he has struggled but HodgePodge's system didn't suit him at all either. I hope we'll see an improving Dirk from now on.

 

[Buddha]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=43645.msg1257590#msg1257590 date=1295506896]
[quote author=Y1 link=topic=43645.msg1257580#msg1257580 date=1295505434]

Kuyt out wide is hardly lighting up the team, hard working though he may be.

[/quote]

Please name me more than a handful of players who've contributed more goals and assists from the right-wing than Dirk over the last 3 or 4 years.

Thanks.
[/quote]

Roughly half of his goals have come when deputising as striker though Ryan.

 

[doctor_mac]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=43645.msg1257598#msg1257598 date=1295510762]
I have no worries about Suarez being a round peg in a square hole if played out wide. He has all the attributes to be a great wing forward and I've heard he has been very good at that role when he's done it in the past.

If we are going to pay £20m for a forward player I do hope he can play the wide role too as Torres will still be our no1 striker. There are not that many teams playing with 2 strikers these days and a lot of strikers have had to adjust to it. It's not like they are wingers anyway, it's way different.

Kuyt has been great in that role for many seasons before this one. Now he has struggled but HodgePodge's system didn't suit him at all either. I hope we'll see an improving Dirk from now on.
[/quote]

Didn't Suarez play that role for Uraguay? I'm pretty sure he did.

 

[Akakabooto]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=43645.msg1257602#msg1257602 date=1295511393]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=43645.msg1257598#msg1257598 date=1295510762]
I have no worries about Suarez being a round peg in a square hole if played out wide. He has all the attributes to be a great wing forward and I've heard he has been very good at that role when he's done it in the past.

If we are going to pay £20m for a forward player I do hope he can play the wide role too as Torres will still be our no1 striker. There are not that many teams playing with 2 strikers these days and a lot of strikers have had to adjust to it. It's not like they are wingers anyway, it's way different.

Kuyt has been great in that role for many seasons before this one. Now he has struggled but HodgePodge's system didn't suit him at all either. I hope we'll see an improving Dirk from now on.
[/quote]

Didn't Suarez play that role for Uraguay? I'm pretty sure he did.
[/quote]

I think he was more of a withdrawn forward for Uruguay was he not? Anyway it doesn't really differ that much from a wide forward role.

 

[doctor_mac]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=43645.msg1257603#msg1257603 date=1295511569]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=43645.msg1257602#msg1257602 date=1295511393]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=43645.msg1257598#msg1257598 date=1295510762]
I have no worries about Suarez being a round peg in a square hole if played out wide. He has all the attributes to be a great wing forward and I've heard he has been very good at that role when he's done it in the past.

If we are going to pay £20m for a forward player I do hope he can play the wide role too as Torres will still be our no1 striker. There are not that many teams playing with 2 strikers these days and a lot of strikers have had to adjust to it. It's not like they are wingers anyway, it's way different.

Kuyt has been great in that role for many seasons before this one. Now he has struggled but HodgePodge's system didn't suit him at all either. I hope we'll see an improving Dirk from now on.
[/quote]

Didn't Suarez play that role for Uraguay? I'm pretty sure he did.
[/quote]

I think he was more of a withdrawn forward for Uruguay was he not? Anyway it doesn't really differ that much from a wide forward role.
[/quote]

I thought he played on the left with Forlan in the withdrawn role and the long haired chap up top. I think.

 

[Akakabooto]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=43645.msg1257604#msg1257604 date=1295511727]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=43645.msg1257603#msg1257603 date=1295511569]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=43645.msg1257602#msg1257602 date=1295511393]
[quote author=Akakabooto link=topic=43645.msg1257598#msg1257598 date=1295510762]
I have no worries about Suarez being a round peg in a square hole if played out wide. He has all the attributes to be a great wing forward and I've heard he has been very good at that role when he's done it in the past.

If we are going to pay £20m for a forward player I do hope he can play the wide role too as Torres will still be our no1 striker. There are not that many teams playing with 2 strikers these days and a lot of strikers have had to adjust to it. It's not like they are wingers anyway, it's way different.

Kuyt has been great in that role for many seasons before this one. Now he has struggled but HodgePodge's system didn't suit him at all either. I hope we'll see an improving Dirk from now on.
[/quote]

Didn't Suarez play that role for Uraguay? I'm pretty sure he did.
[/quote]

I think he was more of a withdrawn forward for Uruguay was he not? Anyway it doesn't really differ that much from a wide forward role.
[/quote]

I thought he played on the left with Forlan in the withdrawn role and the long haired chap up top. I think.
[/quote]

Yeah could be. I'm actually amazed how little I remember from the last world cup.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

Uruguay started the tournament against France with a negative 3-5-2/4-4-2 formation, with Forlan and Suarez the only attacking threats. Although France was evidently out of sorts, this worked, as Tabarez’s side got their campaign started with a draw.

Since then they have kept their defensive control but gone for more attacking 4-3-1-2/4-3-3 formations, largely helped by the introduction of Edinson Cavani to the side.

Cavani, as a right-footed player, has operated down the right flank, with Forlan floating between the middle of the field as a link-man and the left wing and Suarez operating up front. This has given the South Americans much more width on the pitch.

 

[doctor_mac]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=43645.msg1257608#msg1257608 date=1295512336]

Uruguay started the tournament against France with a negative 3-5-2/4-4-2 formation, with Forlan and Suarez the only attacking threats. Although France was evidently out of sorts, this worked, as Tabarez’s side got their campaign started with a draw.

Since then they have kept their defensive control but gone for more attacking 4-3-1-2/4-3-3 formations, largely helped by the introduction of Edinson Cavani to the side.

Cavani, as a right-footed player, has operated down the right flank, with Forlan floating between the middle of the field as a link-man and the left wing and Suarez operating up front. This has given the South Americans much more width on the pitch.

[/quote]

Yeah but I don't think that was the shape in all the games Wiz, maybe I'm wrong. I certainly remember he consistently loitered on the left flank, cutting in and driving at defences. Think he scored a cracker doing that didn't he?

 

[Avmenon]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

[quote author=dmishra link=topic=43645.msg1257573#msg1257573 date=1295503056]
I think Ryan's point was that a lot of clubs apart from us also do it. It doesn't always work, and is often frustrating, but it also at times ends up in better utilisation of certain talents (e.g. Kuyt - who I think makes a much better wide forward than a central striker)

Of the many issues I had with Rafa, I don't think playing players out of position was one.
[/quote]

I think this depends on the quality ofthe player; I'd guess that most of the other clubs playing other players out of position are doing so because they have better players in those original positions. The player either tries to adapt to a new position or ends up benched.

Very few players end their careers in the same field position that they started it in,after all.

The main reason we play players out of position is because they're not very good at their original position and we either trythem somewhere else or bench them, Kuyt being the best example.

We like to talk about Kuyt as being some great RM in a 4-2-3-1 and indeed he has done pretty well all things considered.

But that's not why we bought him; we bought him because he was the top scorer in the Eridivisie.

It's to his credit that he's done well but it's also just as easy to buy a striker, find out he's not that good, try him on the flank and find out he's still not that good ie Babel.

 

[Akakabooto]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=43645.msg1257608#msg1257608 date=1295512336]

Uruguay started the tournament against France with a negative 3-5-2/4-4-2 formation, with Forlan and Suarez the only attacking threats. Although France was evidently out of sorts, this worked, as Tabarez’s side got their campaign started with a draw.

Since then they have kept their defensive control but gone for more attacking 4-3-1-2/4-3-3 formations, largely helped by the introduction of Edinson Cavani to the side.

Cavani, as a right-footed player, has operated down the right flank, with Forlan floating between the middle of the field as a link-man and the left wing and Suarez operating up front. This has given the South Americans much more width on the pitch.

[/quote]

See, Forlan played 'out of position' and being one of the best players of the competition.

 

[Oncy]

Re: Suarez paves the way for Anfield switch as Babel nears the exit door

Fucking great!! I fall asleep, Narwhal Ahoy! Bloody posts, StevieM acts like this is all a game and the Tag is relived!