Or does it show that when he's no longer up to it nobody else seems to be?
Stevies contract.
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Or does it show that when he's no longer up to it nobody else seems to be?
Sure the best captains do, but not every captain is the best captain
possibly
Clearly. As I've previously stated
I think Henderson's overrated as a potential captain, too. He's responsible and well-meaning, but a real leader? Not convinced at all.
I think Liverpool FC need to plan for the day Steven finishes. BR has it right when he says the team shouldn't be relying on him all the time.
He has earned respect and the club should be offering him an interesting contract offer at this stage (a suitable plan and objective) as I don't think it can be a straightforward high earning based on high performance deal.
He has earned respect and the club should be offering him an interesting contract offer at this stage (a suitable plan and objective) as I don't think it can be a straightforward high earning based on high performance deal.
I'm surprised how much game time he's got this season.
I'd have started him in far fewer games than he has started under Rodgers.
He seems to be a fairly critical of himself so you'd imagine he'd fully understand that he's not necessarily played himself into a starting position.
I can only really see the benefit of him staying around for another year or two so fingers crossed.
I'd have started him in far fewer games than he has started under Rodgers.
He seems to be a fairly critical of himself so you'd imagine he'd fully understand that he's not necessarily played himself into a starting position.
I can only really see the benefit of him staying around for another year or two so fingers crossed.
Look, you can disagree without crudely caricaturing the other opinion. People are not advocating simply running around the pitch 'screaming'. (Not that I noticed many complaining when Carragher did it.) Souness didn't do that. Hansen didn't do that. Hughes didn't do that. Smith didn't do that. Thompson didn't do that. Neal didn't do that. Whelan didn't do that. Hyypia didn't do that. But they DID work hard to maintain the discipline, shape and focus of the whole team. They did intervene when they saw a teammate who was struggling. They did react constructively when the team suffered a set back. They did have a word when a teammate wasn't pulling his weight. They did anticipate problems and acted to prevent them from happening. They did provide real, intelligent, flexible and effective leadership, sometimes at the expense of their own immediate ambitions, sometimes when they were suffering themselves. They never hid, they never sulked and they never shook their shoulders and shrugged for the cameras. You want to reduce all of that to a stupid 'screaming' stereotype? Fine, but don't kid yourself it's right. Those were proper captains. They understood the role. And the role meant more than 'leading by example'. All players should set an example (that's not called 'captaincy,' it's called 'playing to the best of your ability'). That should be the least one expects.
Yep. Don't think he wants to see those replays
I do!?
I just wish the OP had put an apostrophe in the thread title.
Too soon to say that about him IMHO. He has a lot of captaincy experience for England U-21s.
It was more general point about expectations from people in uk about captains. Was Terry butcher more of an England captain than say David Beckham.
🙄
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No good putting smilies in there. I don't think it WAS a general point, in a Gerrard thread, i think you're backtracking. The Butcher comparison is another painfully laboured choice. Beckham was a shit captain who scored some key goals. You're seeking to obscure that fact with the 'noisy' captain analogy. But Butcher, too, was at best a mediocre captain. What about Bobby Moore? Shout a lot, did he? He certainly captained well. If there's an 'English' template for a captain I doubt many would look beyond Moore, but that spoils your argument. I suppose all that Keane or Robson did was go around shouting a lot, did they? The more relevant observation about Gerrard or Beckham has nothing to do with how shouty or quiet they were. It's about how little they actually led. Beckham ignored his teammates in terms of leadership, but demanded the ball for every free kick and penalty, so he won the odd game even though he'd often stunk the place out for 88 odd minutes ballooning the ball over the bar. But I guess he was a good captain because he didn't shout. You'll need a hell of a lot more smilies to stop digging yourself deeper into that hole.
I'm not going to start a thread to apologise if that's what you're looking for.
That's what I heard as well.
Telegraph saying that he is being offered a place on the coaching staff.
Liverpool are prepared to give Steven Gerrard a place on the club’s coaching staff once he ends his playing career as they fight to keep their captain beyond this season.
Gerrard received an offer to extend his contract two weeks ago and is considering whether to stay with his boyhood team. There is no possibility that he would sign for another English club, but a move abroad is conceivable. His current deliberations have nothing to do with the salary offer and are solely about how much of a contribution he will make on the field over the next two years.
It is a dilemma for the Liverpool captain, who would have anticipated the contract offer arriving much sooner, and he must decide if he can readjust to the possibility of spending more time as a substitute at Anfield when foreign clubs will guarantee him a starting place. He is free to discuss a move with overseas clubs from Jan 1.
Brendan Rodgers, the Liverpool manager, opened the door for a move into coaching for Gerrard once his playing days are ended, although the midfielder – who has passed the first stage of Uefa’s coaching courses – sees that as a long-term rather than immediate ambition. The possibility of a coaching position when he does finish as a player is something the club are exploring, however, in an effort to entice him to stay.
Rodgers said: "When I see how he trains and works it is still about playing. Then maybe there is a role further down the line. To have someone like that beside you in a coaching capacity would be great.
"At this moment it is purely about football. He is 35 at the end of this season and still has a couple of years to play if he wants to. There are many things at this stage he needs to factor in, not just about football.
"I hope there is a solution with the club and the representatives. It is not about the money, it is about the time of his career in terms of playing.
"For me there will always be a position for Steven here as a player. If he ever went away from here then I’m sure there will be a time later on in his life where there will be a role for him back here".
New York City are among those considered as a potential destination, but an arrangement similar to that of Frank Lampard – who agreed a switch to the United States club before he was loaned to Manchester City – is out of the question.
Gerrard has too much respect for Liverpool to join another Premier League club, so if he does move on it will be to a foreign team. There will be no shortage of offers.
"He’s had 16 incredible years here and I believe he can continue to work at this level for the next couple of years," Rodgers said.
"But there are other factors involved that are as much about life as they are about football. One thing I know absolutely is that it is not about money. It is not about finances. I’m sure in time Steven will talk through the things he had to consider but for me there is no drama.
"It is about managing a player who I have always admired from the outside and admire even more after having the chance to work with him, as a player and a person. I’ll manage that to the best of my ability and the calls I make will always be for the best of the team. I have a huge respect for Steven in terms ofwhat he has done as a player and what he has done for me in my time here."
Gerrard is still in the early stages of his deliberations. Speaking to Telegraph Sport last month, he admitted that there was uncertainty over his future due to a lack of contract negotiations. Those talks began almost immediately and now the club say they will give Gerrard all the time he needs to make a decision.
Gerrard will return to Liverpool’s starting line-up for the Premier League trip to Leicester City on Tuesday night.
He was rested for the 1-0 victory against Stoke City at the weekend, the reaction to which evidently irked the Liverpool manager.
Rodgers said: "It is interesting when we have three games in a week I get asked is he capable of playing three games, but the minute he is not played in one game I am asked: ‘Why isn’t he playing?’ I am categorical. I want him to be here, but there is thinking time needed."
Gerrard received an offer to extend his contract two weeks ago and is considering whether to stay with his boyhood team. There is no possibility that he would sign for another English club, but a move abroad is conceivable. His current deliberations have nothing to do with the salary offer and are solely about how much of a contribution he will make on the field over the next two years.
It is a dilemma for the Liverpool captain, who would have anticipated the contract offer arriving much sooner, and he must decide if he can readjust to the possibility of spending more time as a substitute at Anfield when foreign clubs will guarantee him a starting place. He is free to discuss a move with overseas clubs from Jan 1.
Brendan Rodgers, the Liverpool manager, opened the door for a move into coaching for Gerrard once his playing days are ended, although the midfielder – who has passed the first stage of Uefa’s coaching courses – sees that as a long-term rather than immediate ambition. The possibility of a coaching position when he does finish as a player is something the club are exploring, however, in an effort to entice him to stay.
Rodgers said: "When I see how he trains and works it is still about playing. Then maybe there is a role further down the line. To have someone like that beside you in a coaching capacity would be great.
"At this moment it is purely about football. He is 35 at the end of this season and still has a couple of years to play if he wants to. There are many things at this stage he needs to factor in, not just about football.
"I hope there is a solution with the club and the representatives. It is not about the money, it is about the time of his career in terms of playing.
"For me there will always be a position for Steven here as a player. If he ever went away from here then I’m sure there will be a time later on in his life where there will be a role for him back here".
New York City are among those considered as a potential destination, but an arrangement similar to that of Frank Lampard – who agreed a switch to the United States club before he was loaned to Manchester City – is out of the question.
Gerrard has too much respect for Liverpool to join another Premier League club, so if he does move on it will be to a foreign team. There will be no shortage of offers.
"He’s had 16 incredible years here and I believe he can continue to work at this level for the next couple of years," Rodgers said.
"But there are other factors involved that are as much about life as they are about football. One thing I know absolutely is that it is not about money. It is not about finances. I’m sure in time Steven will talk through the things he had to consider but for me there is no drama.
"It is about managing a player who I have always admired from the outside and admire even more after having the chance to work with him, as a player and a person. I’ll manage that to the best of my ability and the calls I make will always be for the best of the team. I have a huge respect for Steven in terms ofwhat he has done as a player and what he has done for me in my time here."
Gerrard is still in the early stages of his deliberations. Speaking to Telegraph Sport last month, he admitted that there was uncertainty over his future due to a lack of contract negotiations. Those talks began almost immediately and now the club say they will give Gerrard all the time he needs to make a decision.
Gerrard will return to Liverpool’s starting line-up for the Premier League trip to Leicester City on Tuesday night.
He was rested for the 1-0 victory against Stoke City at the weekend, the reaction to which evidently irked the Liverpool manager.
Rodgers said: "It is interesting when we have three games in a week I get asked is he capable of playing three games, but the minute he is not played in one game I am asked: ‘Why isn’t he playing?’ I am categorical. I want him to be here, but there is thinking time needed."
Oliver Kay Chief Football Correspondent
Published 1 minute ago
Brendan Rodgers was unequivocal yesterday in laying out his vision for Steven Gerrard’s future. “For me, there would always be a position here for Steven as a player,” the Liverpool manager said, adding that he hoped that association would continue, perhaps even alongside him in the dugout, long after his captain has hung up his boots.
It is an appealing thought as Gerrard prepares to return to Liverpool’s starting line-up away to Leicester City tonight, but the “job for life” stuff seldom seems to work out in football these days.
Raúl always imagined he would play out his days with Real Madrid, not Schalke, Al Sadd and New York Cosmos; Xavi Hernández is wondering, at 34, whether to sever the umbilical cord that has tied him to Barcelona since childhood; Frank Lampard, an icon of the modern Chelsea, is now enjoying himself so much in a different shade of blue, at Manchester City, that his new start with New York City may be postponed for a few weeks.
The only way to secure the status of a one-club man is by accepting a diminished status and, usually, a diminished wage.
Ryan Giggs became accustomed to seeing his wage cut and his appearances rationed during the extended twilight of his Manchester United career. Paolo Maldini accepted that he would be used more sparingly towards the end of his illustrious time with AC Milan. John Terry, who will turn 34 next week, took a pay cut to re-sign with Chelsea in May, even if he could justifiably claim this season to be playing his best football in years.
It is an age at which a re-evaluation is required, not just from a player, pondering how best to enhance or preserve his legend and legacy, but often from his manager. José Mourinho reluctantly concluded last summer that he and Chelsea could not offer Lampard the same status at 36 as they could Terry at 33. By contrast, Sir Alex Ferguson persuaded Giggs and indeed Paul Scholes to keep extending their contracts on the understanding that it was in all parties’ interests for them to play less.
Gerrard is 34. If his powers are waning — and in truth it had seemed to be heading that way before his and Liverpool’s spectacular resurgence last season — it is hardly a shock. Great players seldom age as gracefully as Maldini or Franco Baresi did.
Giggs and Scholes extended their careers only after adjusting to the reality that they would be helped by playing less often and, crucially, with more restraint.
Giggs was 34 when Ferguson announced, after United’s Champions League triumph in 2008, that it was time to begin “phasing out” him and Scholes, a year his junior.
The pair went on to play for another six and five years respectively, but Giggs saw his number of starts for United in all competitions drop from the age of 32: from 39 in 2006-07 to 33 to 27 to 23 to 27 to 22 to 18 to a mere 15 in 2013-14. Injury restricted Gerrard to 27 and 28 starts for Liverpool and England in 2010-11 and 2011-12. Over the past two seasons that figure was 48 and 49.
He is a different physical specimen to Giggs or Scholes, but his and Rodgers’s plan this summer, after his retirement from international football, was that he would be used more sparingly in readiness for returning to the Champions League. It was never meant to reach a situation where, after starting all 12 Barclays Premier League matches and four out of five in the Champions League, it would feel like a dramatic moment when, for his own good as much as the team’s, he was dropped to the bench for the home game against Stoke City on Saturday.
“You get to the stage of your career where you can’t play every minute of every game,” Rodgers said yesterday. “But it’s interesting; whenever Steven plays three games in a week, I hear he’s not capable of playing three games. Then the minute he’s out for a game, everyone asks why he’s not playing.”
That is what happens when a player is, as Rodgers said yesterday, a “proper legend” at a club, but rotation is easier to accept — not least for the legend being rotated — when it is merely a case of changing from one winning line-up to another. Giggs and Scholes never, in their mid-30s, suffered the difficulty of being a lightning rod for criticism in an underperforming team. United could always look to others for inspiration. Liverpool, on this season’s form, seem unable to do so.
Rodgers suggested that money was the last thing Gerrard would consider with regard to the contract offer Liverpool have made him. The deciding factors, the manager said, “are as much about life as football”.
Part of that, you suspect, is about Gerrard’s need to feel a sense of comfort and enjoyment with his role at Anfield, where he has been so bound up in Liverpool’s fortunes for the past 16 years that he would be forgiven a sense of weariness. He may well look at Lampard, refreshed by his move to City and with a new start in America ahead, or Raúl and see the appeal.
He might equally draw inspiration from Giggs or Francesco Totti. If the love affair is to continue, though, it will have to be on different terms.
For him still to be the man who bails Liverpool out game after game, week after week, is more than either he or the club can expect.
Published 1 minute ago
Brendan Rodgers was unequivocal yesterday in laying out his vision for Steven Gerrard’s future. “For me, there would always be a position here for Steven as a player,” the Liverpool manager said, adding that he hoped that association would continue, perhaps even alongside him in the dugout, long after his captain has hung up his boots.
It is an appealing thought as Gerrard prepares to return to Liverpool’s starting line-up away to Leicester City tonight, but the “job for life” stuff seldom seems to work out in football these days.
Raúl always imagined he would play out his days with Real Madrid, not Schalke, Al Sadd and New York Cosmos; Xavi Hernández is wondering, at 34, whether to sever the umbilical cord that has tied him to Barcelona since childhood; Frank Lampard, an icon of the modern Chelsea, is now enjoying himself so much in a different shade of blue, at Manchester City, that his new start with New York City may be postponed for a few weeks.
The only way to secure the status of a one-club man is by accepting a diminished status and, usually, a diminished wage.
Ryan Giggs became accustomed to seeing his wage cut and his appearances rationed during the extended twilight of his Manchester United career. Paolo Maldini accepted that he would be used more sparingly towards the end of his illustrious time with AC Milan. John Terry, who will turn 34 next week, took a pay cut to re-sign with Chelsea in May, even if he could justifiably claim this season to be playing his best football in years.
It is an age at which a re-evaluation is required, not just from a player, pondering how best to enhance or preserve his legend and legacy, but often from his manager. José Mourinho reluctantly concluded last summer that he and Chelsea could not offer Lampard the same status at 36 as they could Terry at 33. By contrast, Sir Alex Ferguson persuaded Giggs and indeed Paul Scholes to keep extending their contracts on the understanding that it was in all parties’ interests for them to play less.
Gerrard is 34. If his powers are waning — and in truth it had seemed to be heading that way before his and Liverpool’s spectacular resurgence last season — it is hardly a shock. Great players seldom age as gracefully as Maldini or Franco Baresi did.
Giggs and Scholes extended their careers only after adjusting to the reality that they would be helped by playing less often and, crucially, with more restraint.
Giggs was 34 when Ferguson announced, after United’s Champions League triumph in 2008, that it was time to begin “phasing out” him and Scholes, a year his junior.
The pair went on to play for another six and five years respectively, but Giggs saw his number of starts for United in all competitions drop from the age of 32: from 39 in 2006-07 to 33 to 27 to 23 to 27 to 22 to 18 to a mere 15 in 2013-14. Injury restricted Gerrard to 27 and 28 starts for Liverpool and England in 2010-11 and 2011-12. Over the past two seasons that figure was 48 and 49.
He is a different physical specimen to Giggs or Scholes, but his and Rodgers’s plan this summer, after his retirement from international football, was that he would be used more sparingly in readiness for returning to the Champions League. It was never meant to reach a situation where, after starting all 12 Barclays Premier League matches and four out of five in the Champions League, it would feel like a dramatic moment when, for his own good as much as the team’s, he was dropped to the bench for the home game against Stoke City on Saturday.
“You get to the stage of your career where you can’t play every minute of every game,” Rodgers said yesterday. “But it’s interesting; whenever Steven plays three games in a week, I hear he’s not capable of playing three games. Then the minute he’s out for a game, everyone asks why he’s not playing.”
That is what happens when a player is, as Rodgers said yesterday, a “proper legend” at a club, but rotation is easier to accept — not least for the legend being rotated — when it is merely a case of changing from one winning line-up to another. Giggs and Scholes never, in their mid-30s, suffered the difficulty of being a lightning rod for criticism in an underperforming team. United could always look to others for inspiration. Liverpool, on this season’s form, seem unable to do so.
Rodgers suggested that money was the last thing Gerrard would consider with regard to the contract offer Liverpool have made him. The deciding factors, the manager said, “are as much about life as football”.
Part of that, you suspect, is about Gerrard’s need to feel a sense of comfort and enjoyment with his role at Anfield, where he has been so bound up in Liverpool’s fortunes for the past 16 years that he would be forgiven a sense of weariness. He may well look at Lampard, refreshed by his move to City and with a new start in America ahead, or Raúl and see the appeal.
He might equally draw inspiration from Giggs or Francesco Totti. If the love affair is to continue, though, it will have to be on different terms.
For him still to be the man who bails Liverpool out game after game, week after week, is more than either he or the club can expect.
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